Better to stay off dating sites??

[Dougie_D]

I have a theory. I think in the next year or so, actually finding a "date" in public will be way EASIER than online dating.

 

It seems like online dating is becoming a bitter negative because it's full of rejection and shallowness. Even the ones who are lucky enough to get constant dates will become bored from it.

 

So, if you are looking for dates I think you'll have more luck outside of online dating because everyone will be sick of the constant "unknown". And people will be more available to actually want to go on a date with you if you end up getting a number.

 

Just my theory. I hope I'm right, because online dating is feeling like a ghost town for me!

[woodsrose10]

In my experience, it depends solely on the dating site itself. Ok Cupid and Plenty of Fish were the worst; none of my matches interested me at all.

 

eHarmony for me was the best. That site is very specific about matching people as closely as possible. (I plan to resign up when I have the money; yes, the best sites aren't cheap, but that's what makes them so great.)

 

Which site have you been using? I have two friends who met their matches using online dating.

[radiohead20]

Online dating summed up for me is basically spamming a large number of women a week, most of which will not respond or if they respond the conversation will go nowhere. Then, after spending hours and hours invested in writing messages and following up, I will finally get a girl that looks at best average or slightly above average online and decide to meet up with her irregardless of her personality/accomplishments etc since I do not have any other options and I already spent 20 hours chatting with women and the ones that interested me did not respond back (probably because they are overloaded/quit/swimming in a sea of options). Then I get slightly excited to meet up, only met realize that they look worse than their pictures, and really have nothing that special going for them outside of being a female, and that they would not be anyone I would consider to date in real life.

 

Then I post response on enotalone about it and women start firebombing telling "what do you have to offer?". and then I tell them that although I Am only average looking, I have am in better shape than 98% of people my age, have a great career I Am passionate about that affords me my own house, can talk comfortable with people and can be very social. Then these women tell me that I am entitled for thinking that I deserve a great women based on those qualities, or that "personality" matters way way way more, or how they dated men who were funemployed or broke for extended periods of time but had shining great personalities and were SUPER fun (You know, which is sorta by-product of living off your parents are the state and having all that time to party and grow your party personality and travel).

 

 

then, just for fun, I create a fake profile using an extremely good looking guy with an average or not well thought out profile and suddenly all these ambitious, fun, nice, career holding women that rejected me before suddenly are interested. That's when your world implodes and you realize that the dating world we live in is completely based on shallowness.

[NorthDallas40]

I have a theory. I think in the next year or so, actually finding a "date" in public will be way EASIER than online dating.

 

Let us know how that works for you. I think you'll find that dating IRL has its own pros & cons, and will likely get you about the same results as online.

 

As for radiohead20, I feel your pain brother. But seriously, you can't expect to say this:

 

I will finally get a girl that looks at best average or slightly above average online... Then I get slightly excited to meet up, only met realize that they look worse than their pictures

 

And expect anyone to take this line seriously:

 

That's when your world implodes and you realize that the dating world we live in is completely based on shallowness.

 

Let's face it man, almost everyone - male or female - when faced with a selection of people they haven't met yet, will select a potential mate on the basis of appearance first & foremost.

 

So better-looking people are always going to come out ahead. Deal with it.

 

That said, if I've found that even average-looking women can KILL IT with a great personality or even just a good sense of style, appealing body language & mannerisms, pleasant disposition, etc.

 

So why not take the same approach? I'm no male model, but I do my best to dress well, be fun, appear confident, and pay attention to all the rest of those "superficial" aspects. It doesn't cost me anything, and had definitely helped me get first dates with women who probably wouldn't even look at me before I started trying to improve those areas myself.

[Fudgie]

I think the pay sites are best if you are going to do dating online.

 

I had good luck with Match in the past. I have no idea about eHarmony. I tried to sign up for eHarmony and it told me that there were no matches for me and try again another time (guess I am just too strange?) I think eHarmony works best for people who want things that most other people are looking for...then it's easy to find matches.

 

POF scares me. Never tried OKC.

 

However, Dougie, you've posted before about your insecurities regarding women and such. I think you have a lot to work on other than figuring out if online dating is best. Follow the suggestions written in your other threads.

[abitbroken]

Dougie, I think you should swear off dating sites AND trying to meet women in real life for a little while. You are working on making ends meet and figuring out how to live in LA now that your parents have cut you off. Take a good 6 months to improve your situation all around - learn to cook and cut corners that way without having your eyes look around for women or spending money on that beer or coffee that allows you to sit at the bar or espresso counter and look. Go to yard sales and consignment stores to find the small appliances you need to help you make things you like to eat, etc, and brew, if it saves you money making it yourself. When you come out of the next six months to a year happier, more confident and with a little money saved or money to put into getting to the next level, you will be ready to date. Right now, you are only going to attract women who are also not that excited about their situation.

 

I know I am a broken record every time, you ARE making progress. You just have to reach some level of equilibrium. The reason you are not meeting anyone is not because you have chose online vs in person. Its what you have to offer at the moment (and guys who are making lower wages CAN offer a lot but its the whole package). You are getting there. You just have to stop looking and work on yourself a little more and you will definitely have a better selection of possible dates. It will never, ever be easy and not everyone will want to go out withyou, but you won't be that guy who is generally not happy with his situation and only 6 months from having been on mom and dad's strings.

 

Also MAKING FRIENDS, not dates would be really great for you

[DepthOfField]

I think you'll find that dating IRL has its own pros & cons, and will likely get you about the same results as online.

 

 

So why not take the same approach? I'm no male model, but I do my best to dress well, be fun, appear confident, and pay attention to all the rest of those "superficial" aspects. It doesn't cost me anything, and had definitely helped me get first dates with women who probably wouldn't even look at me before I started trying to improve those areas myself.

 

 

Take this advice.

[Blue Spiral]

Unfortunately, men figuring out that online dating is an exercise in futility =/= offline dating somehow becoming easier.

 

I just try not to think about the whole thing, now. It keeps me from getting angry.

[Dougie_D]

I'm confused. So all my co-worker (the ones that actually make the same salary) are all single too? Can't find dates either? Pretty sure MANY of them have girlfriends/boyfriends and even married.

 

What about my friend who only works 2 times a week as a server?, In his thirties? Lives with roommates but soon will be kicked out and will be looking for a place to live. But he gets dates left and right? If you compare me and him by just that, I'm in a way better position. Of course he looks like a super model.

 

About cooking - I know how to "boil" and stuff. I know how to heat things in a oven. I've made tacos before. Made grilled cheese. Spaghetti, etc.. BASIC stuff. I just can't make 5 STAR dinners. Plus, the preparation takes too long. It's the overall process that annoys me. When I actually lived by myself, I did a lot of the basic stuff. I live in somewhat a studio and 3 dudes cooking/sharing the oven is a disaster. There is not kitchen table, or even counter. I had to get my own fridge because they stock their crap in there and forget to take things out. Microwave all day!

 

Online dating doesn't really work for me personally. I'm a social person when I really want to be. It's very difficult to have a conversation when the other person doesn't talk to you back. (messaging) In the real life, at least there would be some sort of conversation going. Maybe I don't get the number, but at least I'd be satisfied knowing there was talking back and forth. Imagine going to every girl in a bar and saying "hey" and they don't say anything back. That's my life in the online dating world.

[radiohead20]

There is your answer right there. When it comes to online dating, it is simple as that. don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Find a way to maximize your looks or at least choose photos that show you in the best light possible (without being unrealistic of course). If that doesnt work then try approaching in real life or join groups (which is always a better strategy anyways)

 

Girls really won't give two s about your talents/ambitions/personality if they don't give a chance to get the looks-based audition when pursuing them. Hell, you could be a Michelin start chef that has a confident personality that goes to Africa and saves starving children every year but if you only use online dating as an outlet and look at best average, or even above average you will get passed over by a very good looking guy, even if he is unemployed/lives with his mom/has no direction in life. I see stuff like that all the time. A knew a general manager at the company I work at (equivalent to senior vice president, manages overall entire division product lines) that pulled in close to 500,000 a year, GREAT public speaker, confident, spoke at huge health care conventions, that was recently divorced and gave only dating a try and quit after a month after he considered a complete joke after single mom's with 3 kids or waiters and servers were rejecting him left and right. He went on a small tirade one night at a work happy hour about it and the 2 folks we were with had a good laugh, although you could tell he was a little disturbed at the whole thing.

[Rosti87]

In past threads people have already advised him on ways that he can improve his appearance and he did not seem interested in pursuing this.

[Dougie_D]

In past threads people have already advised him on ways that he can improve his appearance and he did not seem interested in pursuing this.

 

Trust me, I have tried. Changed haircut, got new clothes, lost a couple of lbs. I'm not "ripped" but I'm definitely not overweight by any means. I'll even post my newest picture of myself here.

[Dougie_D]

Yup! I live in Los Angeles. It's even more difficult.

[icecreamaddict]

Dougie, do girls talk to you in real life? I have a feeling if you approach the same type of girl in person that you do online you won't get much of a conversation either. Online dating usually makes it easier to approach people.

[BigKK]

my theory is online dating will only get more popular and this won't make offline dating easier

 

 

Are you approaching girls in person right now, or strictly relying on the internet?

[tiredofvampires]

Trust me, I have tried. Changed haircut, got new clothes, lost a couple of lbs. I'm not "ripped" but I'm definitely not overweight by any means. I'll even post my newest picture of myself here.

 

Getting in shape isn't something you should just "try". Not ONCE in your years here have you actually gotten in shape and stayed on a consistent exercise program. And I've never seen a picture of you where you aren't somewhat overweight, and by more than a couple of pounds. Just being honest with what I see.

 

There are many ways to get in shape -- and you always find an excuse. You are struggling with finances, so maybe a gym membership would be over your budget limit, but you should still shop around for a plan that might be affordable. Even if you can't afford one (TO REPEAT), there are rec centers that are public, where you get free access to public weight rooms, pools, running tracks. There are home systems you can buy, if you save up some money, that don't take up much space. And most of all, there is the outdoors. You could run every day in a park and work out on a mat on the grass with various calisthenics and if you sweat and have your heartrate up for at least 20 minutes a day so that you can't speak, you WILL start slimming down, and thus looking better.

 

When you look better, you feel better about yourself, which then translates into a different kind of look on your face, a different demeanor. Most of all, there is a transformative "energy" it gives you that radiates, so it has an effect on appearance that isn't just about less belly fat and stronger looking muscles. But you get those too. Even if you think you're confident now, the confidence you develop and generate is a "sexual confident" vibe, which is different. It's a physical confidence that women pick up on as sexy. For you, it's especially important -- you need self-discipline, to combat this "why bother" attitude that I think is also hurting your chances, because women read that in you.

 

My advice would be to make this (which is under your control) a priority, Dougie. You can't find a date -- but you CAN decide to work out. Every. Day. Those guys who are broke but look fit and draw attention physically? They're fit because they commit to it. That's something you can choose to do -- or not.

 

This is not to say that I believe it's the be-all-end-all. I don't agree that you won't get a second look on an online dating site if you're just average and even if you have a few pounds. As a woman, I can say that it's a disadvantage on a dating site if the headshot doesn't catch my eye (though my taste is probably not everyone's, so that's variable, too!), but as long as I'm not instantly turned off by someone's look, if there are some "passable"/good qualities in the look -- a nice smile or eyes, a look of intelligence, and some INTERESTING LINES, rather than just starting off with: "Hi. I am an outgoing, friendly, easy-going, fun, blah blah blah blah guy who enjoys kayaking, dirt-biking, hanging out with friends, blah blah blah...", I may indicate interest of some kind. I often look at guys' faces and try to imagine if they were in real life, would the added animation and potential make them attractive, and if the answer is "maybe", I may indicate interest -- especially if they've indicated interest in me. So I leave room for imagination to fill in a few unknowns until I can find out. I think far too many people pass up "maybe's" because they're going for their first choices -- and you probably are doing this, too, Dougie.

 

I can't tell anything from the avatar pic you've posted here -- it's too small and you need to rotate it. But your profile pic is one that if you used, and you messaged me, and you HAD A DYNAMITE WRITE-UP (as in, one that speaks to me, personally -- all this is so subjective), I would be on it -- especially if you wrote something to me that showed you have some original ideas, and not just approached me with a cliche/canned hello. That is a nice picture -- very genuine, disarming smile, and you're well-groomed. So if all your other ducks lined up, that would get you in the door for me, and a good number of women, I believe. It's what you do ALONG WITH THAT that will make a difference. (but even in that picture, I can tell you have extra weight on you, which is a slight negative. And I'm more forgiving about a few extra pounds than lots of girls in L.A.)

 

For you, I see there might be a challenge in writing something that stands out as interesting profile description. I know you're not asking for advice on how to write a profile, but I'm just saying that not all women will disregard a profile with a lot of substance and a picture that isn't stunningly glamorous. But YOU have to be ready to message women who don't look like movie stars, yourself. And I'm pretty sure you're doing that, based on your general MO in real life.

 

I don't think anyone who is seriously trying to date should cut off any avenue of effort. Maximize your online chances. Maximize your in-person chances. Maximize everything that you look for in another: looks, variety of interests and interesting conversational skills, and interpersonal skills. Many of these are weak areas for you, so it's still a work in progress for you. See your other threads for advice. The problem is you have "tried out" a few things, and stuck with nothing. So I wouldn't rule out any sort of way to meet people, or take anything off the table. It's all how you learn to use any medium to your advantage, and what you BRING to that medium. And I'd say that's true for everyone.

 

I'd say you have a better shot online than in bars, to tell you the truth. So online dating is still a better choice if you do it right than what you've been doing.

 

By the way, my own experience is that if I find a guy super good-looking online and read his write-up, there are usually signs here and there (some overtly, some not) that he's a little big for his britches, or otherwise flaky. Other women may have other priorities, but when I see that, I'm gone. Ditto if you're good-looking and have shades on: if you're not showing your eyes, you're masking the windows to the soul. And a lot of good-looking guys seem to think that a sultry "pose" or bedroom eyes will entice women, and I just have to laugh at that. If you're dumb enough to go on that or don't see through that, good luck to ya, sister.

 

So some of us don't go for the tricks. But you've got to look like you care for yourself, and sound like you care about others. And won't be a drone to talk to.

[Dougie_D]

I work out twice a week when I'm off work. I do the treadmill, and some machines. I tried to do it before work, but it stressed me out because I was extremely tired within 3 hours into my 8 hour day. My work hours are (5:00 pm to 2:00 am.)I'd like to find a gym that's 24 hour, but I only pay 26 dollars a month at my gym, which is great deal!!

 

That's interesting you said you like my profile picture. I actually think it's a good picture but it's suppose to be a head shot. I never had luck with it as my main picture on OKCupid. That's why I took it off. Plus, that picture is now 3 years old. Too many people have pictures that are not up to date. That's the number 1 thing you'll hear after meeting up with someone: "They looked totally different"

 

My good looking friend has access to my online dating profile too. Sometimes people go after "super models" or pass up on ones they shouldn't. Yes, I probably did that, but not as often as you think. Even having my friend pick certain girls for me helps. But the sad part is, he is getting the same results. Nothing. He'll get 1 out 40 and then the girl just stops messaging. I think it's because if you don't seal the deal within 24 hours, she has other "options".

 

The "approach" in online dating is different. If you are using an "app" the approach is either to swipe left (no thanks) or swipe right (yes, please!). It notifies the other one that they are "interested". With Tinder, BOTH people have to swipe right before you can even message someone.

 

Online dating allows people to be more "selective" because they have tons of options on a minute to minute basis. If you go out to a bar, club, party, etc.. you are limited to your options. So, even if you are not really that interested from the start, you'll end up talking to someone just because you may have no one else to strike a conversation with.

[Dougie_D]

my theory is online dating will only get more popular and this won't make offline dating easier

 

 

Are you approaching girls in person right now, or strictly relying on the internet?

 

Way more luck in person. None on the internet. I've tried them all. In person, I can at least get a conversation going. I'll spend an hour messaging to girls where I don't get a response. It's strictly a number game and I'm getting exhausted.

[Dougie_D]

Dougie, do girls talk to you in real life? I have a feeling if you approach the same type of girl in person that you do online you won't get much of a conversation either. Online dating usually makes it easier to approach people.

 

Approaching is definitely easier online. Getting a response or messaging back is not. I can strike a conversation with a girl in real life no problem. Trying to gain attraction is hard for me.

[wsim]

I have known people who have had success finding dates and relationships online. However, I strongly believe that it is a waste of time, especially if you are a male that has had difficulty getting dates offline. Women outnumber men on these sites by a large margin and women receive a lot of messages. Average-looking men will be lucky to receive even a few messages a year. The general response rate from women is quite low, perhaps between 5-10% (even that is considered a good response rate). If you are going to try free sites like POF and Ok Cupid, most accounts are either fake or are from women who are not really that serious in finding a relationship.

 

Paid websites such as eharmony and match will likely have more people that are serious, although this may largely depend on your area and local matches. You will also need to consider that it is much easier to "reject" someone online by ignoring their messages, which they may not be as confident in doing so within a public setting.

 

The bottom-line for me is that women have the leverage and power on these websites, as they can afford to be very selective and choosy. Men would be lucky to even get a date in the online world.

 

Call me bitter or jaded, but I have tried online dating sites for over 5 years and only had a handful of dates that never went anywhere else beyond that. I never came close to obtaining a relationship, let alone a hookup, fwb or booty call.

[Sportster2005]

There's only a limited amount of things you can do in any situation:

1. Leave the situation.

2. Change the situation.

3. Love the situation.

4. Hate the situation.

[SilverFactory]

Fantastic post!

[abitbroken]

Twice a week at the gym does not cut it. Exercising twice a week is just maintaining yourself. That is nothing. If you took a long walk every single day and increased the distance by a little bit every week or shaved minutes off your time every week on the same distance. did a couple push ups or sit ups every morning or night, on top of it , etc - getting in shape is a lifestyle choice not just putting time in at the gym. If you are a member of the gym, enlist one of the personal trainers. The people I know that are in the best shaped = not ripped, but weight proportionate to their body, etc, all do the same thing - walking almost every day, then doing something a few times a week to get their heart rate up. The other important thing is diet. I bet that you are not eating many vegetables and are eating salt bombed take out food more than you should. That makes a big difference.

 

And do not let your friends pick girls!!!!

 

I think for a month you should not message girls. See who messages you and also check what criteria that you listed. Check your age range that you are looking for, body types, and other things, especially if you are not looking for women your own age and only want younger. I really think, overall, that you should get in the groove of a more health conscious lifestyle and stop looking for just a little bit (talk to women who you end up running into naturally, but don't actively look for a girlfriedn right now) rather than just trying one thing and giving up when it doens't make you a babe magnet.

 

I will say though that two people i know met their husbands because friends knew they were looking and they knew of a guy with a positive outlook that had his stuff together and wasn't desperate and they set them up.

[Dougie_D]

You might be right about the diet. I've always assumed I eat a balanced diet every week. If I eat a burger and fries, I'll eat a salad the next. I need variety. My main dish is actually a "Chicken bowl". - Grilled chicken, rice, carrots, lettuce, broccoli, with added spice flavors. I don't eat a lot of fruit. They taste too sugary to me sometimes. I can handle bananas, grapes, and blue berries. But not strawberries or cherries.

 

A month? Let's just try to get 1 or 2 visitors. I can make a year without getting any messages, no problem. I've actually NEVER had a girl message me randomly. I can barely get a girl to message me back.

 

The only women I run into naturally are my co-workers. I don't have a big group of friends anymore. Everyone has moved on.