Succes in dating is more about attraction than compatibility

[Blue Spiral]

I think you completely missed the point of my post.

 

No, I just didn't think your point was relevant. Yes, Hollywood has a double-standard when it comes to male actors and female actors, but it's a symptom, not the cause.

[goodheartlady]

Blue spiral, you missed her point entirely.

[Blue Spiral]

Disagreeing does not = missing, in my opinion.

 

She thinks that "iconic couples" tend to be attractive women with schlubby men, and not the reverse. I agree, but I think it's a symptom of a larger issue, and not a cause. The real-life examples she listed can be explained by the fact that the men involved have power and/or money.

 

Please, tell me how it's my gender's fault that young, attractive women are drawn to older, non-attractive men with power and money.

[missmarple]

I just googled her. And I can see what your saying. So that's one example for a man being hotter then the woman.

 

Some examples of unattractive man with hot women:

 

Hugh Hefner

Peter Griffin

Uncle Phil (Fresh Prince of Bel-Air)

Cliff Huxtable

Silvio Berlusconi

Prince Charles (Diana was at least 3 hotness points above him. Camilla is much more suited to him look-wise)

Homer Simpson

Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum

Jay-Z

Snoop Dog

Newt Gingrich

Geoffrey Arend (Seriously, this guy must have one HECK of personality)

Lewis Skolnick (Revenge of the Nerds)

 

That's just a few I can think of.

 

And let's not forget Julia Roberts had married Lyle Lovett and Marilyn Monroe Arthur Miller!

Even in fairytales, there's the story of Beauty and the beast.

I challenge everyone to find a fairytale where the woman is the ugly one and the handsome man falls for her.

[Moontiger]

Blue spiral, you missed her point entirely.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that! I don't have any problem with people disagreeing with me. But when a person complete misses the point of what I'm saying and then tries to disagree with me, I find that kind of entertaining. Anywho, the OP stated, "It is almost like, attraction can pretty much trump anything. I have seen situations where people (especially women) have refused to date guys they get along perfectly with and have a lot in common with to do date guys they have absolutely nothing in common with, have less fun with, and where the conversation really does not flow."

 

I think over all that is pretty false (look at the evidence we have been able to come up with on this thread alone). Of course, as I mentioned before there has to be a base attraction for a relationship to start.

[Moontiger]

And let's not forget Julia Roberts had married Lyle Lovett and Marilyn Monroe Arthur Miller!

Even in fairytales, there's the story of Beauty and the beast.

I challenge everyone to find a fairytale where the woman is the ugly one and the handsome man falls for her.

 

Good ones! For fairytales, remember beauty and the beast? Do you ever thing we will see a story with the situation where the gender roles are reversed? Never.

[Blue Spiral]

Anywho, the OP stated, "It is almost like, attraction can pretty much trump anything. I have seen situations where people (especially women) have refused to date guys they get along perfectly with and have a lot in common with to do date guys they have absolutely nothing in common with, have less fun with, and where the conversation really does not flow."

 

I think over all that is pretty false (look at the evidence we have been able to come up with on this thread alone).

 

Your "evidence" involves either fictional men or men with money/power. For regular people--non-TV-characters and non-celebrities--attraction is a much bigger deal. I think men generally value it more than women, but women value it quite a bit, as well. I'm here to tell you that women don't have to "settle" when it comes to attraction. The poster you're disagreeing with said that women can over-value the physical just as much as men, and I agree with him.

[Moontiger]

I find it interesting that so many men - when rejected by women - can not just accept it at face value. Not every girl who is nice and polite with you actually wants to date you. As opposed to just accepting the rejection, they have to come up with some "theory" about why the woman's rationale is wrong.

 

 

Goodheartlady, I know I already quoted this post but I wanted to do so again because I think it really get to the heart of the matter. Men today seem to think they are owed an attractive woman. This attitude if reflected in and reinforced by the over-all culture (as we have been discussing). Its very common for a man to find a woman attractive, interesting, and fun until she turns him down. Then she is "evil" and usually called negative things related to how many sexual partners she may or may not have had. A guy in college was very attracted me, he already had a girlfriend and and was rumored to have cheated on her a number of times. When I turned him down suddenly I went for being this "great girl" to "snobby" and other not so nice names.

 

Its sad that in 2013 women are still not represented as equal to men in the media. We are expected to lower our standards but the same would NEVER be ask of a man. If women don't lower their standards and simple "love a man for who he is" even if he is unattractive, obese, rude, etc then she is a stuck up female dog. If a man doesn't lower his standards people just shrug and say "Hey, man, you can't help what you are attracted to."

[waffle]

EXACTLY!!!

 

I've always thought it was amusing that if I'm not attracted to an unemployed or a low-wage-earning man (and I'm not), then I'm called a gold-digger. And men will be all "I don't want the kind of woman who will judge me because I'm not successful." We're supposed to overlook that.

[Moontiger]

EXACTLY!!!

 

I've always thought it was amusing that if I'm not attracted to an unemployed or a low-wage-earning man (and I'm not), then I'm called a gold-digger. And men will be all "I don't want the kind of woman who will judge me because I'm not successful." We're supposed to overlook that.

 

Yup, women are "suppose" to over look EVER flaw a man has. Anyone here following the train wreck that is Romeo Rose? If not google "Sleeplessinaustin" and enjoy having your brain turn to mush. While he is an extreme example, I think he reflects a deep seeded truth of the world we live in. When a man who looks like a cross between Herman Munster and Mr. Ed can make all these demands, what does that tell us?

[Bunney]

I just googled her. And I can see what your saying. So that's one example for a man being hotter then the woman.

 

Some examples of unattractive man with hot women:

 

Hugh Hefner

Peter Griffin

Uncle Phil (Fresh Prince of Bel-Air)

Cliff Huxtable

Silvio Berlusconi

Prince Charles (Diana was at least 3 hotness points above him. Camilla is much more suited to him look-wise)

Homer Simpson

Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum

Jay-Z

Snoop Dog

Newt Gingrich

Geoffrey Arend (Seriously, this guy must have one HECK of personality)

Lewis Skolnick (Revenge of the Nerds)

 

That's just a few I can think of.

 

Haha, serious?

 

Marge's attractiveness can be argued though

[Moontiger]

Haha, serious?

 

Marge's attractiveness can be argued though

 

She's been on the cover of playboy.

 

EDIT: And just to put WAY more though and time into this than is needed: It not really about how attractive the woman is, rather its her attractiveness in relation to the man she is with. So we have Homer, over weight, physical abusive to his son, dumb as a rock, lazy, drunk, etc and Marge, thin, hard-working, understanding, etc. She is supposed to love him because he is a "good guy" at heart. If she gained 20 lbs no one would bat an eye at him leaving her.

[Rosti87]

Yes and no, you cant force everyone into one box. I had a few exgfs who offered nothing but their looks, and i in return only offered my looks in return. These successful dates rarely turn into successful relationships, i am 32 and still not married, and i still meet these hot women who offer nothing else - but their looks pull me to chase them, and they still lead nowhere. I just cut if off with a very attractive girl because she just stood there with no personality to offer, she just sat there and did these distinct smiles and movements (she was amazing at body language, she should really have her own class on sex appeal- she truly was a movie star).

 

But i know guys with social traits that gathered serious attraction from women. Humor and confidence+ social status made these men very attractive.

 

You are expressing similar views as mine. I think ultimately a relationship is more than looks, but personality combined. I still think that women compromise more on the looks when it is time for a relationship. Its nice to hear guys who truly want both not just some arm candy.

[Rosti87]

Wow... I did not get to the exchange between some women and the gentleman here. I can see both sides of the coin. The misunderstanding. As a woman, I understand that some guys pass up 'plain' women for 'hot' ones even if they can hold on to them. But I certainly don't think all men are this way. Maybe with age (as men approach middle-age) these notions lessen. I have spoken candidly with quite a few middle-aged single men who refuse to 'pay the price' for a 'hot' woman. They say they can be expensive and some even high maintenance. They prefer an attractive woman with a strong character and personality. Someone they can share things with not just arm candy.

 

I personally think that the men who are looking for arm candy are in the minority. They are probably more prevalent in younger ages, but I think it starts to thin out as age increases. Having said this, I think men have to do some soul searching and be honest with themselves. There is a price to pay for everything. The more attractive or younger a woman is the more 'expensive' it can be. When I mean expensive, I'm not necessarily talking about the monetary costs, but the added maintenance, and attention to detail that is needed to attract and keep women like that.

 

Do they have what it takes to do it? Are they willing to do it? If they don't have the assets do the work hard on their fitness and personality? I think it goes the other way as well. I hope I am making sense here.

[Sportster2005]

A couple of thoughts:

 

First, I don't know who said this (if anyone knows please tell me) but I think its true, "No man has ever walked accross a room because of a women's intelligence." In other words, there has to be a base attraction between two people for a relationship to start.

 

Second, I think men are much more likely to put looks ahead of everything else. Its part of the culture, every other TV show has a fat, weird looking dude married to a thin, attractive woman.

 

Third, you have to define "success" I have had a grand total of three boyfriends in my life. I'm 27. I consider myself "successful" because I've had quality relationships.

 

How would a man know from accross a room if a woman was intelligent or not? He can't cross the room for intelligence if he doesn't know. I can only speak for myself but intelligence is very high on my ladder of what attracts me.

[radiohead20]

Not all men are like that, first of all. (but I will admit, A LOT are, a lot more than I would like).

 

I am going to disagree with you on the second paragraph in that women born in the 80's and early 90's (20-30ish) born into the whole promiscuous hookup culture, the the first to experience detachment from the traditional marriage culture and attraction towards stability traits (finances, kindness, honesty etc) that is in fact, women, who are the ones that are most likely to refuse to lower their standards when presented with a man that is objectively her equivalent. Example, a fit male in his 20's with a good job will experience more rejections and higher standards from females in their 20's who are fit and have a good job. Not that those are the only things that matter, but it gives a good idea of the dynamic nowadays based on factors that are arguably the most important (or were the most important). These women, having many available options go for the highest caliber male they can get, most of which are out of their league and would not commit to them. Most men, on the other hand, will experience frustration at being rejected constantly despite NOT being deadbeats/broke. What you end up with is women frustrated that they cannot get a man to commit in their 20's but holding on to their high standards and a majority of men being sexually frustrated and a minority of men attracting all the women. I am involved in many different social circles and see this dynamic all the time. It changes, however, as people get into their late late 20's and early 30's. Then things "Settle down" to align more with the dating dynamics of a decade ago.

[Moontiger]

How would a man know from accross a room if a woman was intelligent or not? He can't cross the room for intelligence if he doesn't know. I can only speak for myself but intelligence is very high on my ladder of what attracts me.

 

Please read what I wrote in the very next sentence, "there has to be a basic attractive between two for a relationship to start." The point of that quote is (and I didn't realize that I had to make this clear) is that BOTH men and woman will gravitate towards ppl they find attractive because that is the very first thing, 90% of the time, humans notice about each other. Looks do matter, but its completely unfair that woman are looked down for caring about how a man looks but men are not.

[Moontiger]

I respectfully disagree with you. From my (shall we label it female?) perspective with all the example in the media and what I have seen in my own life what I posted is very true. The story I told in the first paragraph is a prime example. I've heard it countless time when a women rejects a man. He goes from sweet talking to her to saying things like, "Your not that great anyway (female dog)" or "I don't date ugly girls anyway." Usually there are comments about the females sexual activity thrown in. While I agree that gender equality has grown dramatically in the past few decades there is still a huge double standard here, IMO. Even on here, when a guy post that his wife/gf has gain weight there are very posters (usually male) who say "Hey, you can't help what you are attracted to." But when a woman post about her guy gaining weight the response is more "Hey, looks aren't everything!"

[NorthDallas40]

I've heard it countless time when a women rejects a man. He goes from sweet talking to her to saying things like, "Your not that great anyway (female dog)" or "I don't date ugly girls anyway." Usually there are comments about the females sexual activity thrown in.

 

Totally true. It's happened - and continues to happen - to almost all of my female friends who date.

 

Oddly enough, it hardly ever happens to my guy friends, and the only girls who exhibit this behavior are certified nutcases.

 

Related:

 

 

[missmarple]

I've heard it countless time when a women rejects a man. He goes from sweet talking to her to saying things like, "Your not that great anyway (female dog)" or "I don't date ugly girls anyway." Usually there are comments about the females sexual activity thrown in

 

I've heard it many times, too. From my own friends even. When my female friends are rejected they get depressed and wonder if they're too fat, clingy, ugly etc. When my male friends are rejected it's more like 'she wasn't that hot anyway' or 'she doesn't appreciate a good man, she'll end up with a loser'.

[Sportster2005]

Please read what I wrote in the very next sentence, "there has to be a basic attractive between two for a relationship to start." The point of that quote is (and I didn't realize that I had to make this clear) is that BOTH men and woman will gravitate towards ppl they find attractive because that is the very first thing, 90% of the time, humans notice about each other. Looks do matter, but its completely unfair that woman are looked down for caring about how a man looks but men are not.

 

The reality is we simply don't know. Why 90%? Could it be 60%? I agree physical attraction plays a major role. I'm not convinced it's as important as many believe.

 

I don't know about your last sentence. Hasn't been my experience. If a woman doesn't want to date someone for any reason it's really no one else's business. And I simply don't hear the kind of criticism you relate. Maybe it's an age/regional phenomenon. But I don't remember hearing it when I was younger.

 

And really it's best not to dwell on what's fair or unfair. You can't change it, and it will only bring you down.

[Ms Darcy]

I've heard it many times, too. From my own friends even. When my female friends are rejected they get depressed and wonder if they're too fat, clingy, ugly etc. When my male friends are rejected it's more like 'she wasn't that hot anyway' or 'she doesn't appreciate a good man, she'll end up with a loser'.

 

Haha, I agree with this. A couple of dudes I have turned down go quite aggressive with their language. Almost seemed entitled.

[Moontiger]

The reality is we simply don't know. Why 90%? Could it be 60%? I agree physical attraction plays a major role. I'm not convinced it's as important as many believe.

 

I don't know about your last sentence. Hasn't been my experience. If a woman doesn't want to date someone for any reason it's really no one else's business. And I simply don't hear the kind of criticism you relate. Maybe it's an age/regional phenomenon. But I don't remember hearing it when I was younger.

 

And really it's best not to dwell on what's fair or unfair. You can't change it, and it will only bring you down.

 

Nope. When meeting IRL its the visual most people notice first. Why? Well, I'm not sure about you but I have never been able to tell if someone is smart, funny, etc with out meeting them. And, it would seem to me 90% of the time we meet new people IRL, which mean, we SEE them before you TALK to them.

 

Perhaps your group of male friends in the exception but I have heard that kind of criticism more times then I can count. And it would seem other women here have as well. I think since you are male you are much less aware of such things happening. If it ever happens to you, you remember.

 

I guess fair and unfair are the wrong words to use with this topic. It just very sad for me that women still have to put up with this BS and (I'm sorry to say) most men just don't get it.

[Sportster2005]

I'm genuinely sorry to learn of this. Maybe I'm stuck in a male bubble. Hopefully men will come around some day

[Thorshammer]

I cut off a hot woman who was giving me sex when i wanted, for a girl i havent met, who doesnt match up to the other girl in looks (who pretty much told me that she will need time to be intimate because of something she experienced). And i dont usually start liking someone before we meet, especially after only 3 phone calls, and since i consider myself more of a vet with woman that most around me- i would say that not everything is cut and dry, people do step out of their comfort zones. I could have made a mistake when i see this girl and notice she looks nothing like her pics, but if she is decent enough, i will charge right into a relationship and pull myself out of the dating game.

 

And women do chase looks. I will be cocky as hell and say they usually sleep with me faster than guys they see who they "wait" out to see if they "grow on them". And i have never really seen men getting mad with women who chase after looks, only when they chase after money.