Succes in dating is more about attraction than compatibility

[Lonewing]

Yep-- and meanwhile sex muddles my thinking and makes me think I am in love, whilst it probably clears the guys thinking. I think before sex women think more clearly, and men less clearly. After sex, women think less clearly and men more clearly. Evidence of this is my last FWB who I liked but think he was more into me, after a few months of sex I fell for him really hard and he faded out. It sucks.....

 

I would say attraction can grow for women though, my last FWB I thought was "ok" at first, but he had other things I liked like height and a really good job, he made me laugh....then once I had slept with him I suddenly wanted him to be my BF and he wasn't interested.

 

I have small boobs so no luck on the bikini boob zone for me

 

You do have nipples...no?

 

I have one firm rule, I only sleep with girls if it's established beforehand that it's just a one time thing, or if I know I want her long term. I prefer not to have to go through the "I loved having sex with you, but I can't be in a relationship with you" talk, I feel it's cruel and heartless to just casually use someone like that. Now if she doesn't want anything afterwards and leaves me hanging, I know I can deal with that and I put that on me.

[Lonewing]

What is even more hilarious and much much more common is average to below average women demanding a man that is in the top 5-10%, look-wise.

 

It is much harder for a guy to attract a women that is objectively his physical equivalent than vice versa.

 

Behold the empowerment of power and wealth...it'll settle down in a couple decades, which alas means we'll get to live long enough to see paradise but not live it...ha!

[Reflective82]

That's nice I can assure you plenty of men out there do just want sex though, or decide afterwards that they enjoyed the sex but want to carry on having sex with other women. Another reason why women don't often have sex outside of a relationship, it's too risky

[Moontiger]

I find the argument that below average women are demanding above average looks, well, complete ridiculous. I thought we went over that early with example from the media, fairytales, etc. Everything in our cultures tells woman that they have to extremely attractive to catch ever a below average man. I think men are just upset that woman are now getting to a point in our culture where they realize they don't have to setting. This is disturbing to men because it means that they now have to put some effort in. It upset the notion that is installed in them from a young age that just because a woman smiles at them, it means she is interested or "leading him on".

[Reflective82]

I totally agree with Moontiger. I hardly ever see women with men who are even equal in terms of attractiveness, let alone better.

 

But I can tell you that I am frequently approached by men who I do consider less attractive than me. It doesn't bother me as I am not totally driven by looks and if I find a guy ok looking then I will chat to him- but it makes me wonder whether perhaps I am being unrealistic or men are- personally I think men, as by looking at my previous boyfriends I can tell the kind of guy I can make it stick with. I also think men are more naturally promiscuous and tend to always think they can do younger, hotter and better.

 

There may be some women out there who want above average looks, you can't generalise everyone- but I think it is more that men rate themselves too highly and go for women who are more attractive than them and don't want women who are more "their level". Nothing wrong with that, but I don't think it's on the women....

[radiohead20]

I find the argument that below average women are demanding above average looks, well, complete ridiculous. I thought we went over that early with example from the media, fairytales, etc. Everything in our cultures tells woman that they have to extremely attractive to catch ever a below average man. I think men are just upset that woman are now getting to a point in our culture where they realize they don't have to setting. This is disturbing to men because it means that they now have to put some effort in. It upset the notion that is installed in them from a young age that just because a woman smiles at them, it means she is interested or "leading him on".

 

Interesting, I guess my experiences differ. Maybe it is the demographic I am around (mid to late 20's yuppies). I do commonly see attractive women with unattractive men in other social circles now that I think about it (blue collar, suburbs, more traditional people, women in their mid 30's) I also have been to bars/clubs/social circles with women and it seemed that the primary "ooo ahhh" factor of determining whether a girl wants to pursue a guy was his image and his looks. (Example - guy asks for number and give name to girl, girl looks him up on facebook with her friends and her opinion on if she will see him is akin to the "ooo ahh" factor her girlfriends give in on, which is primarily based on if he is "hot" or not - yes it sounds asinine but it is true).

[Lonewing]

I find the argument that below average women are demanding above average looks, well, complete ridiculous. I thought we went over that early with example from the media, fairytales, etc. Everything in our cultures tells woman that they have to extremely attractive to catch even a below average man. I think men are just upset that woman are now getting to a point in our culture where they realize they don't have to settle. This is disturbing to men because it means that they now have to put some effort in. It upset the notion that is installed in them from a young age that just because a woman smiles at them, it means she is interested or "leading him on".

 

What's ironic is that by placing their self worth so high, they're even more likely to remain single now than they ever were before. What women think is a man of "Average" attraction is in the 80th percentile, the same men who can walk the boards for as often as they want and have no fear of not getting another girlfriend or mistress.

 

Of course, there's a lot of guys who are now refusing to do anything but have sex with anything but a ten.

[Rosti87]

I keep watching this board like a tennis match. I think that that all of these statements are true and all of them can be untrue, depending on age, race, class, educational level, location, etc. I don't think there are absolutes other than attraction starts the dating process, but personality and compatibility ultimately starts the relationship.

 

I know women who expect to land men way out of their league and I know men who want women out of their league. I think both genders are guilty of this. I still think that there is a percentage in either gender that does it and people are taking individual experiences and projecting that it as common place on either side of the fence. People just need to get more realistic about their position within the dating spectrum in which they live. Know and understand your niche and look within it.

 

If you are in Los Angeles your niche maybe different than if you live in DC for instance. This comparison thing is like comparing apples with pears.

[Blue Spiral]

I think men are just upset that woman are now getting to a point in our culture where they realize they don't have to setting.

 

I don't think either gender should have to settle. But, the thing is, the two genders' priorities are splitting further and further apart. Women have increasingly-high expectations for what a man should bring to a relationship, and men have increasingly-high expectations in regards to sex. In the past, those sorts of expectations would have been insane, but we're living in a quasi-advanced civilization, so we can get away with it. We can take each other for granted, to a degree. Women know that, if they really got desperate for attention, lots of guys would be thrilled to have sex with them. And men know that, if they really got desperate for attention, lots of girls would be thrilled to have relationships with them. We're disposable to each other, so we're more concerned with the details than the basics--we don't want good, we want ideal.

 

I can't wait to see what happens next...

[Moontiger]

I thought this article, link removed, from Jezebel was interesting and relevant to what we have been discussing. Especially the part I have quoted.

 

"Why is it so hard to talk women into sex?

 

Have you tried dressing up as a vampire? I hear it gets you instant splash. Let me rephrase this question for you to reveal what you seem to actually mean: I want to have sex. I'm married, therefore I think I should get sex. But I don't want to have to talk a woman into it. And if I do have to talk her into it, I want it to work pretty easily. Just me, pestering her, and then getting some sex. Or I just want to start touching her and have that be instant sex recipe. I shouldn't have to be appealing in a way that actually elicits desire on her terms, I just think I should get ed, so why am I not getting ed?"

[Moontiger]

The bottom line from my perspective is men are upset that women have moved forward and now don't feel the need (in general) to stroke a man's ego just because he is man. Women now live their lives for themselves. This is how women used to (and were expected to) behave: link removed

 

Her wants, needs, thoughts are complete unimportant. What's important is that the man feel good about himself. Luckily today we are seeing more women in the Lisbeth Salander school of not giving a damn.

[Rosti87]

The bottom line from my perspective is men are upset that women have moved forward and now don't feel the need (in general) to stroke a man's ego just because he is man. Women now live their lives for themselves. This is how women used to (and were expected to) behave: link removed

 

Her wants, needs, thoughts are complete unimportant. What's important is that the man feel good about himself. Luckily today we are seeing more women in the Lisbeth Salander school of not giving a damn.

 

As long as BOTH parites support one another I have no problem with this. One has to be careful to not be too self-absorbed.

[HeatherB]

The bottom line from my perspective is men are upset that women have moved forward and now don't feel the need (in general) to stroke a man's ego just because he is man. Women now live their lives for themselves. This is how women used to (and were expected to) behave: link removed

 

Her wants, needs, thoughts are complete unimportant. What's important is that the man feel good about himself. Luckily today we are seeing more women in the Lisbeth Salander school of not giving a damn.

I dunno. I like stroking a man's ego. I like making him happy. I like the option not to as well. It's all about expanding your options, not trading an old set of rules for a new one. (And I am a genuine feminist. But I don't let anyone tell me what to do (besides like the police) and that includes other feminists.)

[Moontiger]

I dunno. I like stroking a man's ego. I like making him happy. I like the option not to as well. It's all about expanding your options, not trading an old set of rules for a new one. (And I am a genuine feminist. But I don't let anyone tell me what to do (besides like the police) and that includes other feminists.)

 

I agree. I consider Michelle Duggar a feminist icon. I was make a general put about culture. Where as women has no option in 1944 but to behave this way, today we see woman who choose to not settle and not do all the work. I think the upsets many men.

[HeatherB]

I agree. I consider Michelle Duggar a feminist icon. I was make a general put about culture. Where as women has no option in 1944 but to behave this way, today we see woman who choose to not settle and not do all the work. I think the upsets many men.

True. I agree. I see some men overreacting to cultural developments. Either, "The hell with women I'm not gonna even try." or "The hell with women I'm gonna do this magic pick up mojo I read about on them and make them all want me and then ignore them, hah!"

 

But people will still pair up and do the best they can. We are pair bonders at heart, and it just feels so good to have someone to care about who cares about you, who you don't have to hold off at arms length.

[Blue Spiral]

The bottom line from my perspective is men are upset that women have moved forward

 

On the contrary, I don't think that women have moved forward enough. I am 100% pro-sexual-revolution and pro-gender-equality. But I think that, in addition to making men and women legally equal, we should also try to become culturally equal. If we're going to leave the bad traditions behind, we should also leave the good ones behind. Men had to let go of traditions that helped us (and were unfair to women), and now it's time for women to do the same thing. In my ideal world, both genders would ask each other out, pay, and so on. It's hardly fair when you're legally modern and yet enjoying the cultural perks of antiquity.

 

Think about all the unfair cultural privileges that men used to have (and still do have, to a degree). Can you imagine if men said, "Okay, you can vote and have jobs, but we're keeping all the traditions that make your life harder!"?

[Lonewing]

Divorce is easy, and even easier is just never getting married in the first place. If women want to play psychological domestic warfare games over sex, well, two can play that game...what's the relationship itself worth, in the first place? When one or both parties stop bringing what the other wants to the commitment, there's no longer a reason to keep it.

 

What is evolving is a not a two way street, but a "You're going my way or it's the highway" approach. Nobody wins.

[Moontiger]

Divorce is easy, and even easier is just never getting married in the first place. If women want to play psychological domestic warfare games over sex, well, two can play that game...what the relationship itself worth? When one or both parties stop bringing what the other wants to the commitment, there's no longer a reason to keep it.

 

What is evolving is a not a two way street, but a "You're going my way or it's the highway" approach. Nobody wins.

 

So women should just lay down and take it?

[Lonewing]

The bottom line from my perspective is men are upset that women have moved forward and now don't feel the need (in general) to stroke a man's ego just because he is man. Women now live their lives for themselves. This is how women used to (and were expected to) behave: link removed

 

Her wants, needs, thoughts are complete unimportant. What's important is that the man feel good about himself. Luckily today we are seeing more women in the Lisbeth Salander school of not giving a damn.

 

Here's the thing: men still stroke women's egos all the time - but maybe it's for the wrong things. Either way, it's not returned anymore - instead, the response is "I already know" or "duh" or "don't comment on that part of me."

[itsallgrand]

 

What is evolving is a not a two way street, but a "You're going my way or it's the highway" approach. Nobody wins.

 

I think this is true. It seems so common now to run into this attitude (and it's not gender specific). The "ME" mentality.

[Lonewing]

I agree. I consider Michelle Duggar a feminist icon. I was make a general put about culture. Where as women has no option in 1944 but to behave this way, today we see woman who choose to not settle and not do all the work. I think the upsets many men.

 

What is upsetting is to hear that marriage is the quickest way to take the sex life out of a relationship. What's the point of getting married, then??!

 

What we have evolved is a scenario where women don't do any of the work. That should be upsetting.

 

There has never been a time where man alone or woman alone did all the work.

 

So women should just lay down and take it?

 

Or let the man get a mistress...

 

Women should be just as proactive in satisfying their own sex life as they should be satisfying their partner's sex life. If either is left unfulfilled [or one's idea of fulfillment is "rarely" or "none," {with the partner}] then it's divorce time. And if there comes a time where one person feels like they're just lying there and giving what the other partner wants/needs, that relationship is already over and done.

[Rosti87]

I think this is true. It seems so common now to run into this attitude (and it's not gender specific). The "ME" mentality.

 

Although I don't think it is gender specfiic I think it can be age specific. I work at a company where there are majority 20 and 30 year olds. Many are very my way or the highway in attitude. You see less of it in people over the age of 35 and the percentage seems to get lower over 45.

[Lonewing]

Although I don't think it is gender specfiic I think it can be age specific. I work at a company where there are majority 20 and 30 year olds. Many are very my way or the highway in attitude. You see less of it in people over the age of 35 and the percentage seems to get lower over 45.

 

Perhaps you could say the cut between the old world and the new world is 1969, the year California passed legislation allowing for no-fault divorce, coupled with the landmark Roe v Wade in 1973. Add ten years for these developments to sink in and you have the beginning of Generation X, followed by Y, and now Z, collectively called the millennials.

 

I read an article over lunch [uSA Today] that basically said the millennials are far more likely to spend more corporate money on business travel, opt for as many more expensive perks if they're available, utilize room service, and add Personal Days to their business travel plans when they go places. They're also twice as likely to complain about anything and everything they find unacceptable.

 

I used to think the Baby boomers were the generation that came in on the WWII silver spoon with the desire to go out on a silver platter, but I'm starting to see their kids are only too eager to run with the platter themselves. We demand everything and complain at the drop of a hat, and then we'd probably complain about the hat drop not being up to snuff...

[itsallgrand]

Although I don't think it is gender specfiic I think it can be age specific. I work at a company where there are majority 20 and 30 year olds. Many are very my way or the highway in attitude. You see less of it in people over the age of 35 and the percentage seems to get lower over 45.

 

I think there are trends within certain generations on certain values, yes. Though of course it's still down to the individual person.

 

I think it would be very challenging trying to work in an atmosphere filled with "ME" folks though. Even one in a workplace is tough enough! lol.

[Lonewing]

I think there are trends within certain generations on certain values, yes. Though of course it's still down to the individual person.

 

I think it would be very challenging trying to work in an atmosphere filled with "ME" folks though. Even one in a workplace is tough enough! lol.

 

Perhaps this explains why in June 2013 [for example] millennials had a 16.1% unemployment rate [32.2% effective] versus the 7.6% for the whole population [15.2% effective]...despite so many carrying degrees.

 

Who wants to hire a buncha effin' know-it-all kids?