Am I Being Too Selfish or Materialistic??

[mhowe]

Same thing happened to me when I decided to go to grad school. To quote my dad "who do you think is paying for that?"

 

My instant thought "apparently not you".

I paid for it myself through work and loans. Never asked them for another dollar.

Best thing that ever happened to me.

[Seraphim]

I apologize if I offend any women here, please don't attack me. I am not trying to imply by any means that women are inferior in nature or impose any derogatory opinions on how females should play their roles. My desire to take care of children and cook doesn't derive from the expectation of my husband, it is purely because I want to and I enjoy doing such things. All I wanted to do is get a PhD, teach part-time in the area that interests me, have plenty of time dedicated to making my husband and children happy without worrying about money so much that I'd feel guilty for spending an extra dollar.

 

No one is insulted. We are not attacking you either. We are just telling you the chances of getting what you want are slim to none. It also does not come without risk.

[Blue_Skirt]

I started to work when I was 17, almost 18. That was a full time job. I have done all my studies through evening classes and paid for them myself. I have a bachelor degree in business administration and speak several languages. Instead of my parents contributing to my studies, I was contributing financially to their household, since I was still living at home when I started to work.

[itsallgrand]

No one is insulted. We are not attacking you either. We are just telling you the chances of getting what you want are slim to none. It also does not come without risk.

 

Same here! Not insulted at all. It's not about us. More trying to help you look out for your best interests. trying to let you know some of the costs of this particular road you are wanting to take.

 

You might have to learn with a 2 by 4 though. best wishes.

[totobear]

Thank you so much for the advice/opinion, obviously I am still young and have much to learn. I don't really know many marriages outside that of my parents and other relatives. Maybe I was spoiled and was being selfish in wanting a family free of money issues. But I am just so scared of making the wrong choice.

 

Please, if you can share with me your own marriage experience and reflect back when you had money troubles...how did you and husband resolve the issue...did you ever regret getting into the marriage....

[superfan]

You aren't alone in allowing your parent's mistakes to cloud your own view of marriage - I did too.

 

Before I met my husband I would have sworn up and down that I would never ever ever get married. To me, marriage was a trap. I watched my parents and couldn't help but wonder why ANYONE would ever want to get married. They are the epitome of that couple who should have divorced years ago, but for whatever reasons didn't.

 

Their marriage was a bit different from your parent's, but here are the (false) lessons I learned from it.

 

1. Marriage means fighting. ALL. THE. TIME. (Because that's what they did. I can barely remember a time in my life, a trip, a family outing, a holiday, etc. where they DIDN'T fight constantly.

2. Marriage is more like having a room mate - romance novels lie. Eventually, you're just stuck with that person and you become repulsed by them. (I learned this by watching the disgust on my Mom's face every time my Dad passed gas, or seeing the two of them pee with the bathroom door open as if it didn't matter anymore).

3. Once you get married, any physical intimacy just disappears. (I have never seen my parents hug, kiss, or even hold hands. Not even when my grandparents died did I see either offer the other any kind of physical comfort. To this day I still haven't seen it.)

 

Add to that, the fact that they have known each other since they were kids and have NOTHING in common (no shared interests at all), my conclusion was that they grew up together and decided to get married because it seemed logical. They were best friends, so why not?

 

If you want a window in to what your "marriage" with your best friend would end up being should you choose that route for the financial security, that would be it right there. Eventually you would become like room mates - the physical intimacy would be non-existent (if it ever was there in the first place) and your partner (or you) would eventually get bored/angry/resentful. It would open the door to cheating and all kinds of disharmony. Your kids would see it and (like me) wonder why anybody would ever get married.

 

I should point out however, that my mother has always been the primary money earner in my family. My Dad was injured on the job when I was very young and because of it was unable to return to work.

 

Have you considered what might happen if something similar happened to you? I know you WANT to be in a position where you could work part time and take care of your kids while your husband took care of the finances, but in all honesty it's not really as possible these days. Times are incredibly tough and your Mom (most likely being a baby boomer) can not possibly understand how difficult it is now for young couples just starting out - with or without student debt it is almost impossible for one to stay at home.

 

Do not "settle" for your friend. That is hurting both of you.

 

I finally learned that marriage does not have to be the same way your parents did it when I met my husband. I love him more than anything. And if you want to talk about our financial state...it isn't good.

 

When I first met him, he was living in the UK, owned his own home and had a good job. He also had 0 student debt. I on the other hand am $50 000 in student debt. Because it was easier for him to move to Canada to be with me (did I mention we were extremely long distance?) He sold his home and moved to Canada. He now works a job far below his skill level and the two of us are barely keeping our heads above water (especially with my student loan hanging over my head). We can't afford to buy a house or own our own property. We can barely afford what we do have.

 

And yet I would not change my decision for hte world and neither would he. He sometimes gets frustrated and upset over what he gave up, but we both knew what we wanted (each other) and were willing to sacrifice to make it happen.

 

Without knowing your parents, I would say they never truly loved one another in the first place. If they had, they could have made it past their financial difficulties. If you believe you truly love your boyfriend and want to spend your life with him, then do not listen to anything other than your heart. You may have to sacrifice that 'ideal' life you wanted, but if you guys are meant for each other than you can learn to make it work.

[Seraphim]

I met my husband when I was 22 and he was almost 20. We were in University at the time. ( I am 46 now and he is 44) We got married at when I was 27 and he was 24. We both had just finished University. In our early years we did not have a lot. But over the past 25 years we have made it work. He was also gone for the best part of seven years advancing his career. I was at home working full-time outside the home and basically raising our son by myself. A lot of the time we both worked a full-time job and a part-time job and had our son. We just kept plugging away and never gave up. Now he is where he wants to be in life. And after working pretty much full-time since I was 16 to 43 I am now having a break and not working. My not working however does mean sacrifices and working within a budget.

 

The key to everything is communication. You have to communicate very clearly and you have to have very clear goals and action plans of how you're going to get to those goals. You also have to have a deep respect for your partner's opinions ,ideas and their goals and what they want to achieve as well.

[Seraphim]

Same thing happened to me when I decided to go to grad school. To quote my dad "who do you think is paying for that?"

 

My instant thought "apparently not you".

I paid for it myself through work and loans. Never asked them for another dollar.

Best thing that ever happened to me.

 

The same thing for me I had to work three jobs at the same time to get myself through University. Plus I had to pay to live at home.

 

You just have to do what you have to do.

[Lester]

“Please, if you can share with me your own marriage experience and reflect back when you had money troubles...how did you and husband resolve the issue”

- Money was only one of a thousand challenges my wife and I have faced. We overcame by holding of hands, walking and talking.

 

“...did you ever regret getting into the marriage.... “

Never!

 

PS, Find a good, honorable man who loves you. The rest will fall into place.

[I_Speak_Jive]

Oh hi, you're back.

 

 

 

New ENA account, new (barely) fuddled details, and old unchanged habits. We told you before and we'll tell you again, what you are doing is not cool. You are throwing breadcrumbs at your rich ex (who apparently now has been demoted to best friend), stringing your current boyfriend along and rationalising it all like it has nothing to do with you because your dad threw a chair when you were little so you're entitled to use people for your own material gain.

 

So what do you want from us, really - to tell you that it's OK to play with people's feelings until you can "leisurely teach part time" on someone else's dime?

 

Maybe your prospective husband would also love to work part time and watch his children grow while you slave off and pay for the house and the two cars. Maybe you'd find yourself dumped for another woman who can pay her own way and then some. Maybe. Just a thought. I bet it would feel awesome, what do you think?

 

No, really, what do you think?

[DN]

If you even ask the question you do not love your boyfriend enough to consider marriage with him. Let him go so he can find someone who does. I don't buy the 'brainwashed by mother' notion because you must have also been exposed to the alternative as well.

 

But I also agree with those who say you need to be independent - what happens if the best friend falls on hard times and can't provide for you? It would be really ironic if you end up scrabbling for money with the best friend when the current boyfriend has made a successful life with a woman who didn't refuse him because he didn't make enough when they met.

 

I would be paying off the PhD student loan...the life I want is to teach leisurely part-time (enough to pay off my student loan) while having lots of time to take care of my kids and watch them grow up.

Nice - you get to 'smell the roses' while someone else pays for your lifestyle.

[Snny]

My mom always tells me to marry a very financially stable guy that can take care of me (the richer the better in her opinion).

My dad married my mom at 21 and was in the fire academy. He started out making $15k a year. 15 years later he started making a 6 figure salary (he's got a guy working at his station... no college degree... on his second year of working as a fire fighter he has made $90K a year and he is on his fourth year). My parents are successful in their marriage (over 30 years), raised two kids in a high income area, and he is still successful. And nope, he did not have a college degree.

 

Financial stability goes hand-in-hand. The question is how ambitions and motivated is your man? My dad moved from being a fire volunteer to a Captain position in one of the nation's top fire departments, which is one hell of recognition in his career.

 

He will get a 100k salary with his profession once he graduates in 1 year. But he owes over 300k student loan (the interest is evil...he'd have to pay back over $3000 per month for the loan plus interest).

There is no guarantee he will have a job after college unless he has built up enough experience and has a strong network connection with employers. I have met a PhD graduate working at PetsMart Aquatics department. Employers want experience, hands down.

 

I wanted to get a PhD that allows me to teach part-time while I spend time taking care of the children, but this would seem impossible as I'd have to work full time in order to help support the family.

A lot of families have to work full-time. I don't think this goal for you is very realistic right now.

 

The lack of physical attraction for my best friend is the reason why I choose to stay friends. He, however, never stopped telling me that he thinks I am the one he wants to be for the rest of his life and that he'd drop everything for me if I change my mind.

He is not your best friend. He is playing the friend zone to get with you until you have the heart to tell him it's never going to work out and you refused to see him if he persists. This is a classic move for many guys who claim to be a girl their "best friend." Your boyfriend isn't going to straightforwardly say to not see this guy because he doesn't want you to view him as "controlling." It would be a lost battle for him if he tried to pick your friends and he really doesn't want to lose you either over this "best friend."

 

The question goes back to you: Do you love your boyfriend? You both should be prepared to handle your financial responsibilities any time you are looking at marriage.

[totobear]

thanks tvnerdgirl and victoria 66 and shes2smart for the personal stories...i really appreciate the experience as it allows me to understand more about how and what I can do. i think that my mom might have psychologically influenced me somewhat, at the same time i fear that if i don't take her advice i might end up regretting it later. but i know that this is a decision i have to make on my own.

 

ispeakjive, i am sure that you can ask the moderator to check the location of where the threads are being posted and see if its the same person. sorry wrong person, though i'd appreciate it if you can have some input to my topic instead?

i read your link and i have to say this person shares similarity to my own situation as a female too. however, i never had an ex that does very well financially. my best friend works in hedgefund and my boyfriend is in a top ivy league law school. and by the way, my best friend is a very attractive guy, i just never had the butterflies when i met him. my boyfriend is not even as attractive physically as my best friend, but when i first met him, i just had so much chemistry and we couldn't get our hands off each other.

[Seraphim]

Why do you feel money is the only thing that will save a relationship?

[tinkerbellkj]

Before we got married my husband was making very good money and I had a job social services, so obviously I wasn't. Well, about a month before our wedding (was also 3 months pregnant with my first child) boom out of nowhere he lost his job. He immediately secured another job making again, very good money, but from there on out it was a downward spiral. My plans of being a stay at home mom were out the window and all the dreams I had in my head were hit with cold hard reality.

 

Life went on and our income dwindled and dwindled and then I found out I was expecting our second child (our first only 3.5 months old). We survived, cut corners, I took a short maternity leave etc. Then when our daughter was 17 days old, the world came crashing down on us again, my husband lost his job. I sat with him while he cried, then cried myself in private and contacted my boss ended my maternity ASAP and put on a brave face for my family. We survived again.

 

Now my youngest is 14 months old and my husband has been at an amazing and SECURE (a blessing, for those who believe in God) job for just over a year. It has been a very difficult two years, but we are finally starting to breathe again. It was an extremely difficult time in our lives, but we survived and we did it together. Honestly, we both felt invisible to things like this and I have never been more humbled in my life.

 

Money is important, it keeps a roof over your head and food your belly, but it comes and goes. I love my husband and that isn't fleeting. We stood united as a team when we literally had nothing else and tore through this and we made it out to the other side still holding hands. Money can buy a lot but it can't buy that unconditional feeling of love that I honestly wouldn't trade for anything.

[totobear]

well, i don't feel that money is the only thing that will save a relationship. perhaps i should've elaborated a bit more.

my best friend is more physically attractive, more financially stable and have more common interests with me. all it lacks is the chemistry/spark. i know that for women, the aging process starts after a certain age and it'll be gradually downhill from there. i have the best chemistry/spark with my boyfriend, but i am wondering if its infatuation of some sort.

 

i have actually only been in 2 relationships my whole life, and my current bf is my 2nd relationship (i was a late boomer, didn't start have a bf until after i graudate my BA though i dated sporadically ) my mom and my close friends have always asked me why i don't pick my best friend and he's such a great guy. i don't know why. i know he's good looking guy and i tell him that too. but i never had a sexual thought about him. but with my current boyfriend, i was turned on when i first met him (nothing bad, just thoughts like wanting him to kiss me). and he turned out to be amazing in bed. so is this an infatuation because he's great in bed? or is this a sign that he has to be the one since despite his looks/money flaws i still love him very much? Further down the road will I begin to regret not choosing someone better or "shop around" when i was younger and more beautiful?

[DN]

It's very clear to me that you should not be with your boyfriend, he deserves someone who doesn't have these doubts about him.

 

if your best friend is prepared to accept that you really want him for what he can provide and that you don't love him and don't find him sexually attractive, perhaps that will work. Some people are prepared to love and not be loved in return providing they have that person as a partner.

[pl3asehelp]

You need to cut your 'friend' out of your life completely unless you're single. His feelings are not that of friendship and you're cheating on your bf by associating with him.

[Seraphim]

I wouldn't always say it goes downhill for women as they get older. You are hardly old. In fact my mother got remarried at the same age I am now.

 

What I have noticed though is you see things in very simplistic terms. Money equals security. Good looks equals good guy. Maybe you were a little sheltered? Those are incredibly simplistic criteria for a long lasting relationship . By 29 you should be thinking in more complicated terms. By that I mean you should be able to see beyond the simple surface stuff.

[superfan]

What do you and your boyfriend have in common? What goals and values do you share? Do you both have the same beliefs when it comes to raising children? What about religion? What happens if you take the financially secure route and then your husband has some kind of accident (like my Dad) and is no longer able to work? Are you going to be happy in that marriage?

 

It's not so simple as spark = good mate. You have to be best friends, lovers, and partners. You have to be willing to be 100% committed no matter what happens. You have to be willing to whether the good times and bad. You have to be 100% sure.

 

When I married my husband I had no doubt whatsoever that that was what I wanted. If you aren't sure then you probably should not be with either of them. I would suggest letting to of this 'timeline' you seem to have for yourself. Marriage is not a game of musical chairs. When the music stops, you don't just grab whatever chair that seems sturdy enough. You go with what feels right. You take your time and really learn if you are compatible in more ways than just the financial.

[Seraphim]

I agree marriage is richer for poorer ,for good and for bad ,for sickness and in health . If you can't give that commitment don't get married.

[Stay_home]

I think your mother has really given you some skewed advice when it comes to dating/relationships perhaps because of her own experiences with your father. It seems like you have a hardworking boyfriend who is doing his absolute best and my guess is that you're probably a very hard woman to please. I think you should really consider yourself fortunate to have a man in your life who works so hard and seems to really be about you.

[Blue Spiral]

I wouldn't always say it goes downhill for women as they get older. You are hardly old. In fact my mother got remarried at the same age I am now.

 

Well, even though she's angling to be the more respectable, semi-employed type of trophy wife, she's still going to need her looks to get there. And they can fall apart extremely quickly.

 

OP, I hope you have good eating habits and good genes. Also, avoid tanning machines at all costs.

[shes2smart]

Ok, so here's another way to look at it.

 

Stop looking at what a spouse/partner can offer to you or do for you and take a hard, honest look at what you bring to the table as a spouse/partner. Marriage is a multi-faceted relationship - it's part romance, part friendship, part business, part team and/or coach...it will bring to light your best and worst qualities and simultaneously be the most difficult and easiest thing you'll ever do.

 

I met my husband online, chatted online & on the phone for about 4-6 weeks, met up for a date, he proposed a week later and we were married less than a year after that. (time frame was first chatted online Aug. 2001 married July 2002)

 

The first time I talked to him on the phone we were finishing each other's sentences. Now I know that is because we think very much alike and, given something to think about, we will typically come to the same conclusion independently. That is huge. It makes the real severe disagreements few & far between. We had very similar (emotionally) childhoods growing up -- basically, parents who weren't really "there". He, in fact, was raised by and lived with his grandparents growing up. He understands me in a way that maybe only a couple therapists and my ex-college bf did (and the ex-college bf did only because he was a psych major and only after years of fighting to figure it out). From what my husband tells me, he gets that same sort of understanding from me.

 

It certainly hasn't been all sunshine and sparkles. In fact, I was considering getting divorced about 2 years ago. When push came to shove, however, the reasons for that were temporary and both of us wanted to be 1. married and 2. married to each other. Because we both still wanted to be here, we both took a hard look at what brought us to that point and we both changed things about ourselves and our interaction.

 

I believe I addressed the financial aspects of the marriage in a previous post - basically, it's been mostly on me to provide due to his child support and alimony obligations from a previous marriage. That will be done someday (alimony was only 3 years and the first kid turns 18 next year), and while I hope for a more "on-paper" equitable financial arrangement, I'm not expecting it. If I have no expectation, then there will be no reason for disappointment if it doesn't happen the way I expect.

 

You posted earlier

I am not a gold digger looking for a billionaire husband nor am I absolutely dependent. I just want to be the mom that spends a lot of time with her kids and the wife that makes food when the husband comes home all tired....I enjoy taking care of people

 

Taking care of people sometimes means you put them and their goals & happiness before your own. Sometimes it means you have to sacrifice things you want or things you want to do so they can have something they want or do something they want to do. It means you may rarely get to have things the way you want them to be.

 

Your posts give the impression that you're more interested in having someone take care of you.

[annie24]

I apologize if I offend any women here, please don't attack me. I am not trying to imply by any means that women are inferior in nature or impose any derogatory opinions on how females should play their roles. My desire to take care of children and cook doesn't derive from the expectation of my husband, it is purely because I want to and I enjoy doing such things. All I wanted to do is get a PhD, teach part-time in the area that interests me, have plenty of time dedicated to making my husband and children happy without worrying about money so much that I'd feel guilty for spending an extra dollar.

 

if your goal is to pursue a phd and teach, then you should do so. but i don't see why you would have to take out a lot of loans for that. surely the phd program you'd be applying for has the opportunities to do a RA or TA which will help pay for your costs/tuition, etc...? I did my phd in the sciences, where we had a stipend for performing laboratory research.

 

i agree with S2S - better to have the goal to have a job where you can support yourself vs. expecting a man to do it for you.

 

ps - how does one rack up $300,000 of student loans????? eeekk! did he go to private school for undergrad and is now in med school or something???