I will be losing my V-card to someone I don't like soon.

[OptomisticGirl]

So, according to you, sex is something men have to earn. What do women have to earn, pray tell?

 

You missed the point, Spiral. You have a preconceived notion on women but I'll explain anyway: men do not have to earn sex. However there is no sense of a job well done when you pay for it and get it. There is no chase, no seduction, no effort put into it - that is what the quote is about. He can have sex all he wants (and will technically not be a virgin) but he will still remain a 'virgin' in the actually putting effort into getting a woman in bed. so it really does nothing for him. Sure, he'll have sex and orgasm but he still won't have the slightest idea on how to get relaid - aside from paying for it, again.

 

As I said, if all he wants in life is sex then the route he wants to take is his bet option. However if he wants a meaningful relationship the above paragraph applies.

[Blue Spiral]

It's all about how you carry yourself and they way you are perceived.

 

You're choosing to stay on the perception treadmill--"I'm going to keep working and working to be what women want, and it may not actually make any difference, because perception isn't all that linked to reality, but that's okay!" Don't blame those of us who want to get off of it.

[Blue Spiral]

You missed the point, Spiral. You have a preconceived notion on women but I'll explain anyway: men do not have to earn sex. However there is no sense of a job well done when you pay for it and get it. There is no chase, no seduction, no effort put into it - that is what the quote is about.

 

Why not just be upfront with each other and leave the games and mating rituals out of it?

[OptomisticGirl]

Oh but there is a way to measure those intangible traits as you call them dear Spiral. Confidence is how you carry yourself - if one man can look a woman in the eyes and another can't, that's a physical measurement of were they an be. Some women like overly confident guys, most like a middle ground - continuously playing a 'woe is me' violin however is the most Unattractive thing.

 

You're talking about emotional, intangible stuff. He's talking about a physical, tangible improvement. I find it awfully convenient that your important areas of "betterment" are in an area that's subject to perception, where there's no concrete way to prove that you're better or have grown. It's the classic relationship treadmill. "I don't feel right" or "I don't feel secure enough!" A man can stay on that hamster-wheel his entire life, trying to win or prove something that doesn't actually exist, because it's in another person's head.

 

The bottom line is, he can go out tomorrow, get this taken care of, and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he can do it. He can't do that with any of these "you have to become more confident" things, because they take time and they're always subject to someone else's perception.

[OptomisticGirl]

Why not just be upfront with each other and leave the games and mating rituals out of it?

 

Because the chase is half the fun Spiral. As I said, if all you want in life is sex then chasing and putting effort into a relationship (both emotionally and physically) isn't for you. However I would not have sex with anyone I didn't love, so no amount of being blunt or doing away with mating rituals would help a guy trying to have sex with me.

[Blue Spiral]

Some women like overly confident guys, most like a middle ground - continuously playing a 'woe is me' violin however is the most Unattractive thing.

 

I'm fine with being unattractive. Maybe I'm just radical, but I don't think it's healthy to teach people to base their behavior on what's "attractive" to the other gender (talking about fellow heterosexuals here). People should be themselves, regardless of whether the other gender values their personality traits or not. I don't think that saying "this gender likes (fill in the blank), therefore it's good" is particularly wise.

[OptomisticGirl]

I'm fine with being unattractive. Maybe I'm just radical, but I don't think it's healthy to teach people to base their behavior on what's "attractive" to the other gender (talking about fellow heterosexuals here). People should be themselves, regardless of whether the other gender values their personality traits or not. I don't think that saying "this gender likes (fill in the blank), therefore it's good" is particularly wise.

 

And I agree. You should never make yourself to how others want you to be. However there is a clear distinction between a confident guy and a guy who wallows in what he doesn't have. As long as the second guy is comfortable with who he is, more power to him. In many ways that IS a form of confidence.

[Glowguy]

I'm fine with being unattractive. Maybe I'm just radical, but I don't think it's healthy to teach people to base their behavior on what's "attractive" to the other gender (talking about fellow heterosexuals here). People should be themselves, regardless of whether the other gender values their personality traits or not. I don't think that saying "this gender likes (fill in the blank), therefore it's good" is particularly wise.

 

I completely agree. Modifying your behavior to manipulate or cater to women is unattractive and insecure. Sure it works sometimes but I refuse to stoop to that level. If a women can't accept me for who I am then she can buzz off.

[OptomisticGirl]

I completely agree. Modifying your behavior to manipulate or cater to women is unattractive and insecure. Sure it works sometimes but I refuse to stoop to that level. If a women can't accept me for who I am then she can buzz off.

 

And ThAT is what we mean by confidence - confidence in yourself and who you are, why others percueve of you don't matter.

[EQIQ]

You're choosing to stay on the perception treadmill--"I'm going to keep working and working to be what women want, and it may not actually make any difference, because perception isn't all that linked to reality, but that's okay!" Don't blame those of us who want to get off of it.

 

The thing is though that you may start doing it because you think it is what women want.. but when you are confident you are actually happier with yourself. I ain't saying this to BS you... I am not the best confidence example out there, but I have improved a lot in that sense from a few years ago. I wanted to change, because I was tired of being needy.. etc. And I didn't like this whole talk.. of... "you need to be more confident.. etc". But it is true though. When you are more sure of yourself, happy with who you are; you carry yourself differently, and it is attractive.

 

Nothing I can say will change your point of view. And there's so such thing as a wrong point of view in this... but reality is that human relationships aren't simple math... 1+1 = sex = happy... Most, if not all, people don't just work like that.

[camus154]

Not this again.

 

If you go to a job interview and do terribly, do you refuse to bone up on your interviewing skills in the name of "just being yourself"? Of course not.

 

It's no different in the dating game. I cannot for the life of me figure out why so many guys seem to be so threatened by the mere suggestion that they could improve some things in their approach and interaction with women. It's like they still live at home with their mothers who keep preaching this "just be yourself" garbage while they watch Wheel of Fortune together on Friday nights.

[Glowguy]

Not this again.

 

If you go to a job interview and do terribly, do you refuse to bone up on your interviewing skills in the name of "just being yourself"? Of course not.

 

 

That is precisely what I hate about the job interview process. It is complete and utter BS. The kind of woman I will land with that approach is not what I want. I'm all for people improving themselves but that should come from within. I'm certainly not going to alter my personality to get a woman to like me more.

[EQIQ]

That is precisely what I hate about the job interview process. It is complete and utter BS. The kind of woman I will land with that approach is not what I want. I'm all for people improving themselves but that should come from within. I'm certainly not going to alter my personality to get a woman to like me more.

 

It will come from within if you change for the right reasons... You ain't changing for women to like you more. You are changing because you want to be a better man. It's that simple... Think of how many things have influenced who you are one way or another. A best friend when you were kids, a stupid teacher in first grade... doing sports or not... all these things have shaped who you are. Some of them by choice, and some of them just by the cards that were handed to you in life. This is something you can expose yourself to, and learn from, and choose to adopt by choice. And make it become a part of you, who you are. It is not playing an act, the same way that a guy that has played sports for many years is not playing an act when he feels strongly about physical conditioning. In the beginning it might have been hard for him to change and adopt that mind set... but overtime it becomes a part of you.

 

 

Edit:

 

Now if you don't want to change who you are, your outlook on life... etc. That is entirely fine. But don't expect that everyone will like you for who you are at this exact moment in time. The same way that you wouldn't like a girl or guy that was extremely annoying, or that had other flaws that you saw as unpleasant. Most people view negativity and lack of confidence as very unpleasant....

[Glowguy]

It will come from within if you change for the right reasons...

 

I agree and I think "being more attractive to women" is not one of those reasons. Sorry for the thread-jack here OP. I'm done commenting and best of luck Vegas.

[camus154]

That is precisely what I hate about the job interview process. It is complete and utter BS. The kind of woman I will land with that approach is not what I want. I'm all for people improving themselves but that should come from within. I'm certainly not going to alter my personality to get a woman to like me more.

 

Nah, sorry, I don't buy that. The guys who maintain that "the type of women" (or jobs) you'd land with such tactics aren't they kinds they'd want anyway are either single or unemployed.

 

Again, it has nothing to do with your personality. Interviewing skills are not your personality. The way you approach women isn't really your personality. Quit taking yourselves so seriously and quit considering your egos so sacrosanct and you might find that other people enjoy you more.

 

I don't mean that personally towards you, Glowguy. It's just that in these types of "nice guy" discussions the false bifurcation of being yourself versus improving yourself is invariably brought up.

[Glowguy]

Nah, sorry, I don't buy that. The guys who maintain that "the type of women" (or jobs) you'd land with such tactics aren't they kinds they'd want anyway are either single or unemployed.

 

Personally I don't care whether you buy it or not. Your approach (which to me is akin to selling out) works fine for you and mine is working fine for me (now). That wasn't always the case. I'm pretty happy with the person I am. I'm not saying there isn't any room for improvement but if a woman is turned off then I certainly don't blame myself or assume that there is something wrong with me. Yeah if I'm getting no attention and getting flat out turned down accross the board and most people are disgusted by me then it might be time to try something else or get some therapy but that's not the case.

[tiredofvampires]

I'm struck by the fact that in every one of the OP's threads, he talks about what he has going for him in terms of snagging a woman, and it comes down to his job, his money, the way he looks, etc. Emphasis on money. "I make good money, I have a good job, I live by the lake..."

 

Now, he's suggesting that he will up his chances in the "market" by being a bad boy who has gotten laid in a sketchy way; and the suggestion he makes throughout is that cheap sexual experience will win him points.

 

And in past threads, the women who have jilted him have been cold and demeaning. Now, flaky.

 

You're fishing in the wrong river, OP. Or lake.

 

I'm just going to give a very overall take: the women who you are trying to reel in are not keeper material. You're living in a world where women look at some very superficial and materialistic criteria. And you see yourself -- your attraction potential and desirability -- through those same lenses.

 

It's not a world that produces strong emotional bonds, friendship with the one you would love (yes, FRIENDSHIP! imagine that, that a woman is not just a trophy for doing well at the dating derby), and mutual passion, care, and love. It's a world that's highly glossly and built on appearances, what you "have" to show off, etc.

 

So you won't find the "right kind" of woman in this sort of world. And you won't find yourself better off, in terms of what you can offer if it's boiling down to this kind of list, either.

 

I'm just going on what you keep listing as all the "positives" you have to offer, and what you think women want. I can tell from this barometer that you're using that you're looking in the wrong places, with an orientation that is likely to lead to dead ends.

 

I think you should seriously think about what you have to offer outside of these things, or WANT TO OFFER outside of these things. What you think it takes to be a "good catch" for a serious-minded woman who will want YOU. It's not a lake and it's not your job.

 

Write a list on a piece of paper of the traits you'd like to offer another person, the kind of man you want to be. If you were the "you" you'd like to be. And then ask yourself how much of that you're already doing and being.

 

(Congratulations though on the weight loss -- it'll make you healthier, feel healthier, and look healthier.)

[Miss Firecracker]

But having game will not only help you with getting sex' date=' but actually getting someone meaningful as well... Regardless if you want something short or long term, you need to get her to be interested/attracted to you. And attraction at the first time you meet is very important. Getting her to be intrigued, and to think about you is important. If from there you wanna to try and take it to the bedroom, or try and take it to a second date, is up to the people involved. But if a guy has no game, no confidence, it will make getting into a relationship harder, because of the first step... people usually don't take the time to get to know people that they aint interested/attracted to....[/quote']

 

Still a different subject.

[camus154]

Personally I don't care whether you buy it or not. Your approach (which to me is akin to selling out) works fine for you and mine is working fine for me (now). That wasn't always the case. I'm pretty happy with the person I am. I'm not saying there isn't any room for improvement but if a woman is turned off then I certainly don't blame myself or assume that there is something wrong with me. Yeah if I'm getting no attention and getting flat out turned down accross the board and most people are disgusted by me then it might be time to try something else or get some therapy but that's not the case.

 

Well, since you agree people can improve themselves if things aren't working, then it looks like we're in agreement.

[EQIQ]

Still a different subject.

 

I guess we are more trying to tackle the underlying reason as to why he feels like he has to go see a prostitute instead of being able to attract and have a relationship / sex with a woman.

[jonny15]

If you don't feel you can get it any other way, then pay for it.

 

I dunno if I would pay for it, but the situation presented itself, I.E, pretty girl, and I have the money, then I might do it.

[jonny15]

This is sad because no woman would knowingly want a man that's been with a prostitute/escort. I don't see how doing this will help you.

 

And most that aren't saving it for marriage will probably be creeped out if a guy is a virgin past high school.

 

Yea...alot of females may be sympathetic on the board, but in real life, it's deemed weird.

[Furbys]

And most that aren't saving it for marriage will probably be creeped out if a guy is a virgin past high school.

 

Yea...alot of females may be sympathetic on the board, but in real life, it's deemed weird.

 

Not true at all. It is not deemed weird to still be a virgin. I see it as respectful. I didnt lose my virginity until i was older and im glad i waited. People didnt see me as weird, they all respected my decision to not lose it until i was older.

 

I do not believe this is a good idea, sleeping with an escort is not going to solve any problems, it may remove the label of 'virgin' but then you will have a label of 'sleeping with escorts' i know id rather be a virgin.

[Miss Firecracker]

Why would you need to label it? Why even tell it in the first place? This guy is single and owes no one any explanation, not now and not ever.

[jonny15]

Not true at all. It is not deemed weird to still be a virgin. I see it as respectful. I didnt lose my virginity until i was older and im glad i waited. People didnt see me as weird, they all respected my decision to not lose it until i was older.

 

I do not believe this is a good idea, sleeping with an escort is not going to solve any problems, it may remove the label of 'virgin' but then you will have a label of 'sleeping with escorts' i know id rather be a virgin.

 

I don't think you understand.

 

It's deemed respectful if your waiting for the right person. But if you simply can't find anyone to have sex with, that's when your deemed weird.