He didn't pay for my coffee........

[Batya33]

Browneyed girl I think the OP's focus was more on the fact that he asked how she liked her coffee and went up to order but then didn't offer to pay - kind of strange behavior -and slightly based on gender but not totally (I wouldn't ask a woman I was meeting for the first time for coffee what she wanted to order if I wasn't going to offer to treat).

[sadchick83]

Yes Batya! This point has somehow got lost in this lengthy thread. I guess we will find out more when Sandra gives us an update.

[im sandra dee]

We had our comedy club date. He took me to dinner before the show and he paid. At the comedy club, he paid for our drinks.

 

So that answers that question. He is not a cheapskate. I'm guessing that he was just nervous at our coffee meet.

[annie24]

great! so did the date go well? will there be a 3rd??

[im sandra dee]

great! so did the date go well? will there be a 3rd??

 

annie24, you ask if there will be a third date. I think we skipped the dating phase and are now in a relationship. I don't understand how this happened. Things are moving fast with this guy. He has already introduced me to his three children and I've been to his house. I have talked to him and I want to slow things down but I don't think he is going to be happy about it. I think that he thinks that if I'm not comfortable going at his speed, that I don't want to be with him. That's not true. I want to get to know him better but things are going crazy fast.

[annie24]

It is a red flag when someone wants to move the relationship along at a lightning pace. I would hold your ground. Don't feel pressured to be put into an insta-relationship. When I say 'red flag' I mean it is a warning sign for abusive relationships. Be careful, ok?

[im sandra dee]

It is a red flag when someone wants to move the relationship along at a lightning pace. I would hold your ground. Don't feel pressured to be put into an insta-relationship. When I say 'red flag' I mean it is a warning sign for abusive relationships. Be careful, ok?

 

Are you sure annie? He hasn't been abusive. Your warning, however, scares me because I really don't know this man very well and he seems so sure that he wants me in his life and he wants to spend so much time with me. I don't know if I've made a mistake allowing things to come as far as they have. I've given in to his pressure so far because he has seemed reasonable to me. He does not talk like an unreasonable person or a crazy person. He seems very sane. Yet he goes so fast. I feel that he is pressuring me. Let me share what happened last night. He wanted me to go with him to his son's hockey game. It seemed reasonable to me and I wanted to go so I accepted his invite. At the arena, we waited around for some time before his son's game and during that time he did something that made me very uncomfortable. He didn't seem to be there with me. He talked to other kids' parents and a few times left me standing alone while he went to talk to someone. I felt neglected. You know I don't have a problem with not being his first priority when it comes to his kids, but come on do these almost total strangers get priority over me? I'm not saying that I wanted him to stay with me and talk only to me, not at all, but if he wanted to talk with the other kids' parents -- parents of the kids on his son's team, then he could have included me or made eye contact with me or taken me with him when he went to talk to someone else, he didn't have to leave me standing there all alone. I felt like he ignored me. I felt like a big idiot. He says that he wants to be with me, but his words and actions seem to be inconsistent. I don't get it, out in public he seems a little off to me. Yet when we're alone or around his kids, he seems to adore me. What is going on?

[Alezia]

If I had to start dating now at my age, it would also be a red flag to me. All of my past relationships, under age 22, were like yours were the guy had asked me out after 1-2 dates. There was only one of them that could have been considered abusive. In itself, it may just be a guy who's head over heels in love with you, and pretty much desires to be exclusive with you. When you are mature and have children, it takes a different spin. Meeting the children already after the second date, makes me wonder if it's not because the guy is needy and feels like he must have someone there as a relationship 'figure'. He may or may not be abusive, but I would not equate the sudden exclusivity to being abusive right away.

 

How long would you say he left you alone? Is it only 5-10 minutes during the entire night, or was it very significant? It makes me think that he's brought other women in the past, or that his breakoff with the last wife was not too long ago. That seems to fit in with the needy category, but heck, I am making a lot of assumptions here.

 

I still think it's way too early to make any real judgments, but keep on your toes

[Batya33]

I don't think it's fair to his children for you to be having contact with him other than if it can't be avoided -i.e. you run into them and he says "this is my friend [your name]". I see that as a red flag as far as his enthusiasm in getting his kids involved with you this quickly.

I think he was wrong to invite you to the game unless he was ready for you to meet everyone. He has to talk to the other parents for the benefit of his kids.

[Ryguy786]

Maybe just have a conversation about it.

Sit down, explain that you like him, that you enjoy being around him, but because you do like those things that you want to do them properly. Explain that what may be normal for him (kids) may not be normal for you right now, so you'd like to keep things at a slower pace.

I'm sure if you explain these things thoroughly, in a positive manner, he will likely understand and accept them. Highlight the truth (assuming you do) that you like him, and that you are not trying to push him away, but just trying to do what you think will make the relationship work out best.

 

I don't know about all guys, but I really enjoy when a girl is thoroughly honest and presents her needs, concerns, and goals for the relationship - it makes them seem secure, worthy, and emotionally stable.

 

For the coffee thing (I seem very late on this), he likely just didn't want to make you feel pressured like "oh , this is a DATE because I'm paying for it"

[im sandra dee]

He is going too fast. I already shared my concerns with him this morning. He hasn't called me yet since we talked this morning but I know that he will. If not tonight, then tomorrow. I'm not confident that he will give me what I need -- I've been pretty clear about what that is -- I want to slow things down. I don't want to stop seeing him. I just want to take things slowly. I want to be sure that we are building something real and solid, not something forced or rushed that will fall like a house of cards. His pre-game behaviour at the arena last night gave me the first real proof that I needed to address this issue with him. I had to tell him that I felt that he didn't really want to be with me although he claims that is what he wants, his actions did not back that up. I honestly feel that he wants someone, not me necessarily, in his life to fill whatever void he has -- he was married for 20 years so I know it's gotta be hard to be alone. On the flip side, I've been alone for my own life, so it's hard for me to just jump into an instant relationship with someone. I have been in good faith giving my best and doing my best in this situation with him because I have a sincere wish to be in a relationship. But I want a relationship to develop based on something real -- not based on a need to fill a void. If I get caught in that house of cards when it falls, I know that I will get hurt and I am trying to avoid that. It's one thing to take a chance on something, but it's an entirely different thing to take chances foolishly. If my past experiences have taught me anything, it is this: rushing is foolish.

[Fudgie]

I think it's a HUUUUGGE red flag that he would have you meet his kids after 2 dates. that's just bad parenting in my book too.

[Ryguy786]

Explain what you have said here, and make it clear. If he doesn't respect that, then you're correct- he's trying to fill a void.

 

I've gotten out of a 2.5 year relationship, and the need to fill that void is huge. But I'm also trying to make sure I don't set my standards low, or "anybody is fine" kind of situation. He's probably just excited. Personally when I get excited I want to move things quickly too to validate the relationship...

 

People talk about red flags, ditch it, etc....don't worry about that. There should be no extremes. Have a real conversation explaining what you have said, and see what happens after the fact to get a better picture of what's going on. Make sure that you make it clear that you are totally interested, happy to be around, excited...but you just want to make sure you are not rushing too quickly. He has (maybe) never tried dating with kids and didn't want to make it feel like he was "hiding" them from you. Perhaps his intentions are not malicious or terrible, but just clueless on what he should do because he hasn't had this experience before. Give it a chance on doing what you want, and then decide.

[Alezia]

Your post confirms my suspicions then Maybe I wasn't making so many assumptions.

[sophie274]

I think that if you a feel that a relationship is moving too fast, then the best thing to do is show what speed you want it to go at and act in a way that is consistent with your desire to move slowly, rather than have conversations about pace. Don't tell him you want to go slow - move slowly and behave in a way consistent with that.

 

To be fair to him, it takes two to tango. He isn't moving fast alone - you're moving with him. Only accept dates on which you feel comfortable going. If you don't want to go over to his house and meet his children, you absolutely do not have to. You don't have to make yourself available to see him multiple times a week either.

[im sandra dee]

I talked to him but I don't feel like anything has been resolved. He has suggested to me that when I want to see him that I call him. I'm not comfortable with that. I want him to take the lead and call me to ask me out and if I'm comfortable with his date idea -- time/location/activity, I would accept and we'd go on a date. I'm not saying that every date idea has to be about going out somewhere. If he doesn't have a babysitter for his kids and wants to stay in to watch a movie or order pizza or make dinner, that would definitely be cool with me. I am not opposed to spending time with his kids but I want to be courted, I don't want it to just be assumed that I'm spending every day and every night with him. I have a life of my own. Being in a relationship doesn't mean I've got to give up who I am. Right now I am so stressed out with this situation that if push comes to shove, I will stop taking his calls. I don't need stress in my life. No man is worth the stress I'm feeling at the moment.

[Ariel85]

If he doesn't have a babysitter for his kids and wants to stay in to watch a movie or order pizza or make dinner' date=' that would definitely be cool with me.[/quote']

 

It shouldn't be cool with you after what, three dates? You're not married, you're supposed to be dating. Not sitting on his couch watching him parent.

[Batya33]

No, I don't think you can have it both ways. Why should he put in the effort of asking you out every single time if he knows that about half the time you're going to say no? And please don't let his kids be around you -kids don't "get dating" they "get attached" as some wise professional once said (on the radio). If he doesn't have a sitter either reschedule or go see him for an hour or so after they go to sleep.

[im sandra dee]

It shouldn't be cool with you after what, three dates? You're not married, you're supposed to be dating. Not sitting on his couch watching him parent.

 

He said and I quote: "I don't want to date you, I want to be in a relationship with you." So we're not really dating, are we? We skipped the dating stage. Silly me, I thought we were going to go on dates. He had a whole bunch of great date ideas but maybe those ideas were just a ploy to reel me in. I'm very frustrated by this situation.

[im sandra dee]

I am very tempted to end things with him now because he has made very unhappy in the last three days. And still nothing has been resolved.

[DylanNotorious]

Yeah but he did slow it down, he said call him if you want to see him.

[browneyedgirl36]

Browneyed girl I think the OP's focus was more on the fact that he asked how she liked her coffee and went up to order but then didn't offer to pay - kind of strange behavior -and slightly based on gender but not totally (I wouldn't ask a woman I was meeting for the first time for coffee what she wanted to order if I wasn't going to offer to treat).

 

Ahhhh...ok...I may have missed that part. I agree, that's a little odd. If he wasn't going to pay, he should have just stayed seated while she ordered her coffee!

Still, I'm not sure it's hugely red-flaggy.

[tiredofvampires]

I think you're both asking for too much.

 

You, on one hand, are asking that he do 100% of the "courting," expecting him to choose the tempo and places, even though you've disliked both. He offered to let you initiate, so you have more control over the pace and suggestions, but you've turned that down. So you've essentially told him, "You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't" call me.

 

He, on the other hand, seems either out of touch with the getting-to-know process of dating (in his defense, he's been out of it for a long time) or he's being guided by a suffocating and controlling agenda. The comment, "I don't want to date you, I want a relationship with you" sends up red flags for me. To me, that signals someone who has a "slot" in his life he's trying to ram you into. I'd be careful about a controlling streak in this one.

 

In light of the fact that he offered for you to call, I'd give this one more chance. If this were me, I'd tell him that I don't see getting into a relationship with anyone until we've gone out and started to get to know eachother GRADUALLY. I'd suggest that we take turns calling and suggesting things. This way, you can always take your time to call him, and give it breathing room, while letting him "court you." I would, however, ask him, since he's said he doesn't want to date, whether he'll really have his heart in this arrangement. I'd level with him and tell him that you think a relationship takes time to develop through this process and that if this idea is unappealing to him, you don't share the same vision.

 

If he agrees to this, then you can gauge his responsiveness, personality and compatibility over time in this framework.

 

I also don't believe in just not taking someone's calls anymore, without first explaining to them where you stand.

 

I don't like the way he sounds like he's rushing into this, either -- but if I liked him (and I'd have to like him a lot at this point as a person), felt he was a sensitive person capable of being receptive to my input/feedback, and COULD see myself with him, I would try to work more with his suggestion of you taking the initiative, instead of putting it all on him to do it all right every time.

 

Btw: have you slept with him yet? Because I know from your previous threads that you said you wanted to wait on that; and doing that so soon with someone who you're not certain about and you see takes coupling very seriously could send mixed messages. It would not strengthen your stance with a relationship-minded person if you took the plunge of sleeping with him, and then claim you are only in the initial superficial courtship phases and want to go slowly, so he should back off.

 

ETA: I don't know if you still want feedback on the coffee issue, or wish to relate new developments to it via this thread, but you may get more current-events replies if you started a new thread.

[glegend]

Don't make a big deal over a couple bucks. For all you know it wasn't a "date" just lets go out and grab a coffee to get to know each other.

 

Think of it this way. He did not take you out somewhere, and then have to ditch you somewhere far from home. However, give you cab money and call you a cab but not wait for your cab to arrive.

[Generation]

The feeling I get from you is you're a taker, not a giver. It's all about you, it seems. You wanted him to pay for coffee and dinner. You want to be courted. He says call you, you won't call him cause you're not comfortable with that? I mean that's the least you could do.

You want him to take the lead? No. You want him to give give give. You want to take take take, or reject his ideas if you don't like it. In the end, it's "is his idea good enough for me?"

 

I also think that you in your head made that jump from dating to relationship as well. He might have brought the idea up and mentioned it, but that doesn't mean it's happened yet. You are still dating, right now. You're so scared of it that you've closed yourself off from it. You said it yourself, he still has date ideas, is that not good enough? You could still talk to him and tell him to slow things down, and what you want. Though at the same time, I think you're going too slow. You've made zero contributions towards him from what I'm seeing. He doesn't seem controlling, he's in control. But that's his responsibility to be in control because you want him to choose the date ideas, be courted and have him chase you down and call you. But I think you're the one who's being controlling here because it's your say in the end whether or not his ideas are valid or good enough for you. Do you see the difference between in control and controlling?

 

Quite honestly, I feel sorry for the guy. He sounds like an inherently good guy, despite his errors.