He didn't pay for my coffee........

[shikashika]

I think it's best everyone pay seperately, since nobody is being forced to go.

 

There is nothing bad mannered about it.

 

I think it's strange to have everyone pay individually whether it's a date or not.

 

Just like when you go out for dinner with a group of people, everyone just throws in the same amount.. doesn't matter if one person had a meal that cost $1.75 more than someone else.

 

If you're going out on a date, with friends for coffee or a drink, don't people buy rounds anymore????

[jonny15]

I think it's strange to have everyone pay individually whether it's a date or not.

 

Paying your own way seems pretty normal to me.

 

If you're going out on a date, with friends for coffee or a drink, don't people buy rounds anymore????

 

I wouldn't quite know since i've never done that before, but I really wouldn't want to be paying for a bunch of peoples stuff.

[Batya33]

I think it's strange to have everyone pay individually whether it's a date or not.

 

Just like when you go out for dinner with a group of people, everyone just throws in the same amount.. doesn't matter if one person had a meal that cost $1.75 more than someone else.

 

If you're going out on a date, with friends for coffee or a drink, don't people buy rounds anymore????

 

but if you're just meeting for coffee through an on line dating site then it really could be just one coffee. I agree with you -if I got to the line first I would turn and ask him what he wanted (or ask him before I got on the line if he was saving us a table) and wouldn't ask him for money nor would I accept money if he offered it when I returned with our coffees. I would expect him to say thank you.

[shikashika]

 

 

I wouldn't quite know since i've never done that before, but I really wouldn't want to be paying for a bunch of peoples stuff.

 

Ok, because where I've lived and with my friends it's pretty normal.... if there is a group of 17 people, probably not... but 4 or 5... people buy a round!

 

I think it's polite anyway if you are meeting someone to ask them what they are drinking.

 

Yes, you are paying for people's stuff... but they are buying YOU stuff as well.

[jonny15]

Ok, because where I've lived and with my friends it's pretty normal.... if there is a group of 17 people, probably not... but 4 or 5... people buy a round!

 

I think it's polite anyway if you are meeting someone to ask them what they are drinking.

 

Yes, you are paying for people's stuff... but they are buying YOU stuff as well.

 

Then after a few rounds, your broke cause your too drunk to know when to stop buying.

 

There is no reason to buy a bunch of people stuff like that,.

 

That and since I hate drinking, I can't imagine myself buying anyone a round of anything.

[Subject]

I think you should go out again, but act distant. Don't look at it like a "date", try to see it as if you're just making friends. Maybe if he feels this dissonance occurring he'll start trying to impress you.

[shikashika]

Then after a few rounds, your broke cause your too drunk to know when to stop buying.

 

There is no reason to buy a bunch of people stuff like that,.

 

That and since I hate drinking, I can't imagine myself buying anyone a round of anything.

 

Ok, but this is the way it works in a lot of places. Particularly in the UK. You buy a round.

[scklbad]

I know this thread is old, but id like to throw my 2 cents in there.....not gonna throw a dollar in there though hahaha jk.It annoys the shiot out of me when i see people like the OP. Why should a guy have to pay for your coffee? You are an adult working woman...maybe you are the cheap one? I believe in splitting dates, unless you have been with the person for atleast a month, and then maybe you can do an every other date one person pays thing. No reason the male should be giving you a free coffee....especially on the first date.

If I were the guy i would not want anything to do with you..especially since you're not giving hm sex...

also why shouldn't he use the tickets he has? should he throw them out?

[Fudgie]

Ok, but this is the way it works in a lot of places. Particularly in the UK. You buy a round.

 

Honestly, with the way things are with the economy in the US, I (thankfully) don't see this tradition coming here.

 

Okay, let's take a coffee house. You go out with 4-5 other friends. You go to Starbucks, a common coffeehouse. Typical MEDIUM coffee costs 3.75 or so, and that's just coffee, if someone got something different or more, it will cost more. Yes, that's the price. May be a little more or a little less. One friend is supposed to drop $20+ on everyone while everyone pays nothing?

 

Seems unfair. I'd really rather pay my own and when I've gone out with others in a group, everyone pays their own, regardless of where we go. I've only been paid for if the friend owed me money and this was her way of paying me back.

 

I'd rather pay my own each time than having to pay a lot every once in a while.

[Vincent Ruiz]

I know this is an old thread but this is a bit ridiculous. You are iffy about the guy because he didn't pay for your coffee? Are you expecting him to pay for everything if you get into a relationship? There are other ways to impress a lady besides paying for your coffee and it sounds like he was able to achieve that. I don't don't know what dating book you read but that advice where a guy should pay for a first date is horrid. Any self respecting guy is looking for a girl who is confident and independent. So if he didn't pay it's most likely not because he is cheap but because he believes you to be independent. A guy who will pay for your food, and agree with anything you say despite if he really feels that way has confidence issuses and is not worth the time. I think you should give this guy a chance. Maybe if you guys get into a relationship much later, he'll pay for you. But for now, if the guy has confidence and self respect then expect to pay for yourself.

 

I never pay for a first date or even a second date. If that's a problem with a girl I'm on a date with then she can buzz off. She is only looking for someone to take care of her in the form of money. There are other ways that you can show a girl that you can give her security and if she believes it's by paying for her everywhere she goes then she just needs to look for a sugar daddy.

[annie24]

One friend is supposed to drop $20+ on everyone while everyone pays nothing?

 

i think that the expectation is that next time, they pay for you. ie, next round of drinks, or some other time. if someone never stepped up, other people would notice that and stop buying him/her drinks.

[im sandra dee]

Are people still posting on this thread? lol

 

I had a change of heart about the guy this thread is based on and we have gotten back together. As it turns out, I was worried to the extreme about him being creepy (he is not)..... if anything he IS emotionally available -- perhaps too much for some people --but I am giving him another chance. Once I expressed a need for some space and that I was feeling too much pressure, he has stopped pressuring me. He simply wants to be with me. There is nothing odd about that. He admitted to pushing too much which pushed me away and he won't do it again. To those posters who warned me that he is abusive and controlling, I just don't see any signs of that and believe me I would know it if I saw it -- been there, done that. This man is different. He is loving and wants a committed relationship and wants to enjoy every day life has to offer with someone special. I feel the same but I am going to take things as slow as possible because I want a relationship that lasts. Thanks to all who gave input.

[tiredofvampires]

Are people still posting on this thread? lol

 

Yes, because you brought it up from the dead again instead of making a new thread, since the coffee issue became ancient history. It was suggested you start a new thread, but you didn't, so yeah.

 

To those posters who warned me that he is abusive and controlling' date=' I just don't see any signs of that and believe me I would know it if I saw it -- been there, done that. This man is different. He is loving and wants a committed relationship and wants to enjoy every day life has to offer with someone special.[/quote']

 

In the last series of posts, this is what you presented: someone who wouldn't take no for an answer, calling you incessantly and showing up without invitation at your house (in stalkerish fashion), pressuring you into a relationship at the cost of dates that are normal for this stage of a relationship, "expecting" that you will be with him every day and every night with a disregard that you "have your own life", "expecting" you will have lots of sex, "expecting" you to do mundane wifey-type shopping with him, as someone who admitted he "was desperately trying to fill a void", prematurely introducing you to his kids and "expecting" you to be at his house with them...and a host of other very smothering, scary behaviors for someone who has been in your life for such a short time. You asked us, "Do you see what I mean by pressure?" and told us this man was making you miserable. You made a very strong case for him being unstable and proving it with bullet points and increasingly alarming anecdotes.

 

Now, suddenly, he's stable and loving with no reason for us to have jumped to the conclusion that he is controlling (or "abusive").

 

I'd like to point out that the changeability of your impressions, your mind, your evaluations is quite remarkable. You stand out to me as a poster who is very good at presenting a convincing picture of something and then later drastically altering/retracting both your own assessment and representation of the situation. I find this disturbing. There's something disturbing to me about your posts, Sandra -- like, I don't feel I can "rely" on you to have any sort of consistent view of people, of situations, of the interactions you have, or even your own values -- with your story following suit. Perhaps you are less stable than this man?

 

But I do sense a pattern. You started off feeling this man was a bit of a cheapskate not to pay for your coffee, then you completely changed your mind and decided it wasn't an issue. This dynamic was repeated with the comedy club and dinner -- he was a bit on "probation" about that, because what if he was insulting you by using tickets he might have had from some ex? Then you gave in to fast-tracking the relationship even though you say you didn't like what he was doing. He took you to his kids' ballgame, where he had to talk to others, and you felt you weren't being "courted" properly. But, because you were being "generous" to him, you went with it. From there on down, he wasn't courting you at the right tempo, with the right events planned, and this escalated into him being a giantly needy, clingy man who doesn't really want to be with "you", just someone with a heartbeat next to him while he buys light bulbs. And you deserve better.

 

And then this 180-degree about-face where he is none of those things.

 

I don't mean to be harsh, but you seem like a person who is very quick to judge another person, while at the same time being very absorbed in yourself. You're willing to give and compromise, but these things are written up in your little black book. There is a mixture of not holding your own ground while at the same time building very critical, resentful, negative opinions about someone, and presenting (I would say even, misrepresenting) them in the worst possible light -- to the point that you're willing to just cut them off, block their number, etc. I don't know what kind of man this is at this juncture, because my feeling is that people's character changes drastically as you change your mind. You gave us every reason to believe he had many controlling aspects, and now you say there are "no signs" of that, as though all of the prior things you said have been entirely ERASED. First, this man is an opportunist who doesn't know how to treat a lady, then he's someone who's a furball of benign and sweet intentions, with the thought process in your own mind running throughout the thread like this:

 

"How dare he?!"

"Oh, it's cool."

"How dare he?!"

"Oh, it's cool."

"How dare he?!"

"Oh, it's cool."

 

Several times in this thread, I've felt I was given an impression of someone who was acting strangely and improperly, only to find out this was an unfair or incomplete representation of the situation/person. May I suggest that you examine a situation for all its merits before jumping to conclusions, and instead of making every opinion about a person's integrity self-referential, observe a person as someone in their own right with their own needs as well. May I suggest that you examine your fickle pattern, because as you get deeper into a relationship, it could drive you both nuts. If I feel a bit nuts reading your threads, I can only imagine what it'd feel like in real life.

[Batya33]

I wouldn't feel comfortable giving someone another chance in this situation -you barely knew him to begin with and he showed up at your house after the discussion you had with him? I was all for giving him another chance as far as whether manners dictated that he should have offered to pay for your coffee, I would feel fine if he had slowed down the first time you asked him to directly, but he didn't and in fact depicted a situation where you would be at his sexual beck and call every day (whether you liked it or not, it seemed, because he "needed" that much sex) and all the other things he told you. I understand you really want to be with someone but this isn't the way to start a healthy relationship. What's the next thread about this guy going to be "I didn't pay for his coffee and he showed up at my house at 3am?". Sadly, that's not too far fetched given this guy's behavior. Good luck.

[tiredofvampires]

See, I would totally agree with you. Except that the OP's accounts of this guy, situations and herself are not consistent, and there is a lot of flip-flopping on many levels. So we don't really know this man's side of the story or what REALLY happened in those conversations/situations. Her reactions may be more unreasonable than his, for all we know.

 

I can no longer take her accounts at face value. But that's just me.

[im sandra dee]

Hold on a sec. He admitted to me that he was wrong to push me and pressure me. He apologized for doing that. And he stopped pressuring me. I want to give it another chance. Does that make me a bad person? I just want to be happy. No, I'm not perfect and no, our situation isn't perfect but I found a man who makes me happy FINALLY and I don't want to let him go. I never intended to flip-flop anything -- things sometimes evolve........... with mixed feelings, yes,......... and I believe in giving people second chances.

[tiredofvampires]

Within the span of one week, you've gone from saying this man is "making you unhappy" (which has kind of been the flavor -- dissatisfaction -- of this whole thread, now nearly a month long), that he's not worth this stress, and that you don't believe the words he says, to saying you've "finally found" the man who makes you happy. ONE WEEK and he's gone from an oppressive ball-and-chain/potential creep to Prince Charming. (And you've accused HIM of moving too fast?)

 

I don't care what he apologized for, how sincere it was, and how worthy he is. This is what I mean by erratic. In YOU.

 

It would make sense if you said that you're a bit disconcerted about what's happened so far and somewhat cautious, but you're giving it another chance because he's shown as many good signs/traits as uncomfortable ones. That would be reasonable and balanced. That's not what you've said though. You've gone from one extreme to the other.

 

It's one thing (and normal) to have mixed feelings, and I certainly believe in giving people second chances. That's not the issue.

 

The issue is your apparent lack of some grounding force that steers you in any consistent fashion, as well as your hasty, snap judgments which you just as easily are swayed to abandon.

 

You can either take this in and provide something to defend it, or ask yourself if there's anything here you agree is worth your self-critique.

[im sandra dee]

So it's not ok to go from one extreme to another? Examples in history show wars ending in peace so why can't a person change her mind? So now I'm unstable? For wanting to be happy? I may have misjudged but I, too, have been misjudged.

[tiredofvampires]

Extremes in a relationship, especially in the beginning, don't bode well. I don't see anyone vacillating between extremes as particularly healthy. I'm not saying you're a "bad" person or condemning you. I'm just saying swinging between extremes, coupled with this compressed timeframe, is an unfavorable mixture. High volatility = instability.

 

Comparing one's personal relationships to global war and peace presents so many problems, it would be too arduous to address here, but I think you probably shouldn't be striving to have any relationship that involves active annihilation of one another, followed by a heap of loss on each side to make up, post-conflict. I also don't think that peaceful co-existence is an "extreme", nor is it the way you want to feel in a deeply loving, passionate relationship. (And I would be pretty freaked out by any geopolitical situation where within the span of one week, or even one month, countries went from being foes to allies.)

 

I never said you were unstable for wanting to be happy. You'll see that's nowhere in my remarks. Maybe re-read them?

 

But I do wish you luck and happiness.

[Ariel85]

TOV -you are entirely correct, and I don't disagree with you.

 

But...keep in mind that Sandra has no relationship experience. Although she is in her 40s, she has said she was a virgin until 40, and has really only had some very short-term casual sex encounters with much younger (or otherwise inappropriate men). So, although we think to give advice to a grown woman who should know better, her emotional dating intelligence is similar to a very young girl who has not dated much. Hence the wild swings...

 

So, I'm not sure that Sandra understands why this extreme flip-flopping is not healthy for her. I think she just viscerally reacts to situations, and does not have the ability to apply logic or personal expertise. I think she is super impressionable, and not always able to make the wisest decision for herself because of this, as her frame of reference is so narrow.

[Ariel85]

Sandra - how do you personally handle the wild swings of emotions? I couldn't weather well being into someone one day, being done with them the next, and then defending them as being perfectly whole and lovely the day after that.

 

Remember- early dating isn't about what someone else thinks of you or what they want. It's about what YOU think about someone else and what YOU want.

 

So what if he likes you and wants to be with you? That's not enough of a qualifier or rationale to keep dating someone. There are plenty of unsavory men that will want to date you. Doesn't mean you keep them around when you're not happy and your needs are not being met.

[tiredofvampires]

I think you're right -- to some extent. I've taken that into consideration. But it's more than just being inexperienced. Even when I was young and naive, and far more impressionable, I (for instance) was not impulsive with the need to sweep things under the rug like Sandra. This is partially a personality issue, and something that is not necessarily a function of little exposure to relationships.

 

Also, I'm a bit skeptical about the inexperience factor, because even if you're the 40-year-old virgin, you've still been (supposedly) living in the world. Unless you've lived under a rock all your life, you've had girlfriends talk about their love lives. You've watched TV and movies, seen what developing relationships are like. You've had guys talk about the women in their lives -- what they like, what drives them away. You've read articles and magazines. You've taken classes (if you've been to school) where you've debated with your peers on various topics of social interest. You've seen comedy shows and sit coms about relationships. Sandra is a woman of the world in other ways, as she's presented her persona here. So she's been living in no bubble.

 

And though romantic/dating experiences have their own set of problems, RELATIONSHIPS in general require being balanced, level-headed, consistent within yourself and with others. They require maturity, awareness and circumspection, even if you never exchange a single kiss or sexual act. Whether it is with bosses, clients, co-workers, colleagues, friends, parents, siblings, on and on -- the same skillsets are needed to have a sustainable "partnership." So life in general prepares you for being in a healthy relationship, if you're paying attention, you're out there, you're listening, learning -- and tapped into yourself. You don't need to be experienced to have very high emotional/relationship IQ. I've seen it here proven many times. (I've also seen the opposite -- people with tons of dating experience and a lower emotional/relationship IQ.)

 

Yes, some of our biggest insecurities and boundary issues come up in the dating/relationship domain -- so it tests you on all these fronts. Being vulnerable is something you have to be, to have a solid SO-type relationship. So if you're not experienced in how to be that without losing your sense of self, it can lead to some of these problems Sandra's having. But I still see that more fundamentally as a pre-existing problem with sense of self and a shaky value system (such as "I deserve to be courted" etc.) than inexperience, per se.

 

I also don't think it's a product of inexperience when the OP asks, "So I'm unstable for wanting to be happy?" as a response to my post, when that is clearly a distortion of what I said. That's the kind of retort I might hear from a teenager (no offense), but that's unrelated to dating experience.

 

Finally, Sandra isn't totally without dating experience. She said here:

 

 

 

So she's said here that she knows what she's doing. In her opinion.

 

I'm not saying any of this to tear you down, OP, or to be adversarial. I'm only saying this to point up some of the problems I'm noticing that you may want to think about, which go deeper than just the how-to's of dating. Of course, if you really feel none of this applies, once again, as I've said to you before, take it with a pinch of salt. It's just my take.

[Ariel85]

Also, I'm a bit skeptical about the inexperience factor, because even if you're the 40-year-old virgin, you've still been (supposedly) living in the world.

 

Agreed. I don't think anyone gets to be 40 and a virgin with no relationship experience sheerly from lack of opportunity. There definitely are very deeper issues at play here. BUT, this has been raised to Sandra before in her other threads, and she has adamantly professed that she is done with therapy and that she wants to try out dating/relationships, regardless of the outcome.

 

I do think she's playing with some real fire, however, only because her ability to discern good from bad for herself seems to be very off the mark. If I were dating someone a few weeks, told him I was done, and then he showed up unannounced and uninvited at my doorstep, I wouldn't write this off as a guy who was really into me, and has a right to want to be with me. I'd be straight up frightened, as it is not the behavior of someone very well-balanced.

 

But, I also do think Sandra's lack of good judgement makes her a perfect target for damaged men. A healthy choice would be to discontinue seeing him, particularly if one feels their boundaries have been violated. A healthy person does not engage in nor instigate these kinds of games. Guys that stick around for this kind of drama aren't very well themselves, and I definitely support your earlier assessment that this is all just a recipe for volatility.

[im sandra dee]

I've spent a few days with him and tonight I sensed that he is pulling away from me. I think maybe I should give therapy another chance.

[DylanNotorious]

Omg sandara, he is giving you space - the space that you wanted. What do you want from this guy???