"women perfer men who are within their leagues,men just tend to choose the best in town"

[LightbulbSun]

You completely missed my point about the darkness. So, you want someone who's never experienced depression like you have because you like happy people? A person who hasn't experienced depression will not be able to relate to you.

 

Now I'm confused. I thought your point was that you don't need someone who's experienced what you've experienced, because you can relate to them in other ways?

 

You're very confusing, Cognitive_Canine.

[Fudgie]

Now I'm confused. I thought your point was that you don't need someone who's experienced what you've experienced, because you can relate to them in other ways?

 

You're very confusing, Cognitive_Canine.

 

I don't think that was her original point, LBS.

 

I don't think you should be dating someone who is SERIOUSLY depressed. But why not find someone who is shy too? Or has experienced depression? Or has anxiety or treated bipolar? I think you would be happier that way because you could both relate to each other. You would know what each other is going through and then you can support each other.

Of course, you can't always tell someone is these things just by looking at them. If they are being treated, they probably look like happy, normal people. Or perhaps they are shy. Shy isn't a bad thing, especially in your case. You and the girl could relate to each other.

 

For example, I have depression, but I am being treated. I'm not an unhappy person anymore. I date men who know what it's like to have it and may have had suicidial attempts in their past, which I have too. I want them to be OVER it, like me, but I want them to have experienced it before, so we can relate to each other and help each other because yes, it still affects us.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Now I'm confused. I thought your point was that you don't need someone who's experienced what you've experienced, because you can relate to them in other ways?

 

You're very confusing, Cognitive_Canine.

 

I meant that experiences do not equal maturity but we work better with those of similar experiences. We've both been depressed and we've both had suicidal thoughts. They are under control now and it's nice that if one of us starts leaning that way, the other can pull them back. Also there is a lot of stigma around depression and I don't need misunderstanding or judgement like that.

 

I don't think that was her original point, LBS.

 

I don't think you should be dating someone who is SERIOUSLY depressed. But why not find someone who is shy too? Or has experienced depression? Or has anxiety or treated bipolar? I think you would be happier that way because you could both relate to each other. You would know what each other is going through and then you can support each other.

Of course, you can't always tell someone is these things just by looking at them. If they are being treated, they probably look like happy, normal people. Or perhaps they are shy. Shy isn't a bad thing, especially in your case. You and the girl could relate to each other.

 

For example, I have depression, but I am being treated. I'm not an unhappy person anymore. I date men who know what it's like to have it and may have had suicidial attempts in their past, which I have too. I want them to be OVER it, like me, but I want them to have experienced it before, so we can relate to each other and help each other because yes, it still affects us.

 

This is what I was referring to

[BriarRose]

I have to agree with Fudgie and CC. As someone who has struggled with some emotional issues, it would be really hard for me to relate to (and probably to attract), someone who has no experience in such things. Plus people do tend to be more judgemental of things like that when they have not gone through it (or been close to someone who has gone through it).

 

I think we do best with those whose experiences have been similar to our own in terms of the emotional toll they have taken.

[newwave]

Well, what I've observed is that I put the cart before the horse. I expect a pretty girl to react negatively towards me, even before I get to know her...yet I desire her simply because she is pretty, without getting to know her.

 

This is I think a huge part of your problem. You desire pretty girls yet you know deep in your heart they probably won't want you. I'm not trying to be harsh but I had a female friend who did the exact thing. She's wasn't attractive yet went after handsome muscualar guys, but knowing they'd reject her (and they did usually). She was looking for the instant chemistry thing and that is overplayed. Most of my best relationships were with guys I didn't find attractive at first but the chemistry grew as I got to know them. The ones where there was instant attraction burned fast.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Also, why do you respect pretty women more than average women? People can sense when you do this ( I know I can) and it's not nice.

[Fudgie]

Also, why do you respect pretty women more than average women? People can sense when you do this ( I know I can) and it's not nice.

 

I sense this too and honestly, I don't get it. Why is that?

 

Look, being beautiful is a great thing and if you are gorgeous, then that's awesome for you. But that sort of beauty, well, a LOT of it comes from genes and how you look. Yes, there's always hygiene and losing weight, and those things can do a LOT, but I'm being realistic...I know that no matter what I do, I won't look like . She was born that way, I was born this way. You gotta work with what you have and I'm of the belief that regardless, "average" people can still be sexy and desirable. Most of it is mindset.

 

Why would you place so much importance and judge someone's value based on something that they can't control? (their genes).

[LightbulbSun]

This is I think a huge part of your problem. You desire pretty girls yet you know deep in your heart they probably won't want you. I'm not trying to be harsh but I had a female friend who did the exact thing. She's wasn't attractive yet went after handsome muscualar guys, but knowing they'd reject her (and they did usually). She was looking for the instant chemistry thing and that is overplayed. Most of my best relationships were with guys I didn't find attractive at first but the chemistry grew as I got to know them. The ones where there was instant attraction burned fast.

 

I will always desire attractive women sexually. Now whether or not I'll ever get into a relationship with an attractive girl, or have to settle, is really up to chance (and how well my workout plan goes.)

[LightbulbSun]

Since I can't edit my post, I will clarify:

 

I am willing to date an average woman. But she'll have to understand that I will look at pictures and videos of attractive women, and be cool with that. I'm not giving up my porn habit just because I get into a relationship.

 

I'd rather have someone who would be so visually appealing to me that I wouldn't have to look at the porn, but the fact is, I will still fantasize about attractive women, even if I'm with a not-so attractive woman.

 

Feel free to call me shallow for that. I don't care. If I had the looks to GET that kind of woman, I would.

[NightLily]

I will always desire attractive women sexually. Now whether or not I'll ever get into a relationship with an attractive girl, or have to settle, is really up to chance (and how well my workout plan goes.)

 

With your attitude I hope you don't date an "average" looking woman. You would probably cause her some emotional issues contending with your beauty standards.

[BriarRose]

I have no idea what you look like, but if you are a 5 and only hitting on 9's and 10's, you're going to have problems.

[Batya33]

Since I can't edit my post, I will clarify:

 

I am willing to date an average woman. But she'll have to understand that I will look at pictures and videos of attractive women, and be cool with that. I'm not giving up my porn habit just because I get into a relationship.

 

I'd rather have someone who would be so visually appealing to me that I wouldn't have to look at the porn, but the fact is, I will still fantasize about attractive women, even if I'm with a not-so attractive woman.

 

Feel free to call me shallow for that. I don't care. If I had the looks to GET that kind of woman, I would.

 

My husband always found me very attractive and surprisingly just as much or even more so despite my often being in loungy type clothes, my hair in a scrunchy, wearing glasses. I'd say I might be above average but not by much. I told one of my women friends who said "that's because the whole focus on the visual fades -you are his wife and the mother of his child -that's what he sees when he looks at you and that is the beauty". You don't "have to" look at porn -you choose to and any woman who even suspected you did so because you thought she was average would never choose you if she had even minimal self-confidence. And if she doesn't I doubt you will find her attractive for the long term.

[Fudgie]

All I can say is that I'm sad to see you put so much emphasis on looks. I think you'll be missing out.

 

I have dated guys who looked at porn. It didn't bother me. They did it to get off and fantasize about sexual position. I know they always preferred me. Heck, we enjoyed porn together.

 

I feel bad for the average woman you end up with if you can't appreciate her beauty and tell her that you have to look at porn because she doesn't cut the mustard. No one "has" to look at porn. And yes, i'd be gone in a heartbeat for someone who enjoys my body. Do you know how crappy it would feel to be told that you're not "pretty" enough for your loved one and that he has to jack off to some celeb because you're not that? Geez....it would feel terrible.

 

It's the equivalent of a woman saying to you "You're too small. I bought a dildo for use on myself to compensate. I hope you don't mind."

 

Bataya is right. A woman would leave that. I know I would. Why stay with someone who you KNOW doesn't find you attractive?

 

Every woman deserves that. I hope you get your attractive woman because honestly, no woman deserves that treatment. I couldn't imagine it myself. They deserve someone who will enjoy their looks and will love them for them and not crave others all the time. Sorry.

 

The only one missing out is you.

[e282]

Since I can't edit my post, I will clarify:

 

I am willing to date an average woman. But she'll have to understand that I will look at pictures and videos of attractive women, and be cool with that. I'm not giving up my porn habit just because I get into a relationship.

 

I'd rather have someone who would be so visually appealing to me that I wouldn't have to look at the porn, but the fact is, I will still fantasize about attractive women, even if I'm with a not-so attractive woman.

 

Feel free to call me shallow for that. I don't care. If I had the looks to GET that kind of woman, I would.

 

The real existential problem is even if you got that type of attractive women you'd still be wanting to look at other types of different women.. it is a compulsion for variety and rotation of stimuli.. Men are hardwired to seek not only the most physically attractive women they can obtain but also to bed as many different varieties and distinctive types of attractive women as possible. The problem of internal conflict of interests can't be solved even if you did land a 10.. From a purely qualiafic existential standpoint experiential experiences wouldn't exists without the relativistic contrasting of invariance of qualia, so our localized embodied abilities to perceive of a certain essence of sensation is commensurate to the modes of awareness, categorical perception, abstraction, survival, existence etc that is being deployed at any one time.. since everything does seem to empirically fall in line (or at least lend itself to being nicely bounded) by the reductive models of evolution.. the simplistic 'explanation/definition' of this all would be that there is a dichotomy of duality and the masculine is at diametrical odds with the feminine.. and it is this great struggle between the sexes, and amongst one another that propels the process of evolution, natural selection... etc and precisely all of this that gives rise to the emergent properties of runaway selection, pressures of mating selection affecting the more casually impotent aspects of epiphenomenon qualitative essences of existence.. and yet even our internal struggle, this non-normalizable physical/mental/emotional struggle is within each of us.. it just is inevitable.. existence is just one passive infinitely unique experiential moment to the next..

[Cognitive_Canine]

I will always desire attractive women sexually. Now whether or not I'll ever get into a relationship with an attractive girl, or have to settle, is really up to chance (and how well my workout plan goes.)

 

Never settle because with this attitude you'd be cheating the girl out of a relationship with someone who's attracted to her.

[Sparkly Eyes]

With your attitude I hope you don't date an "average" looking woman. You would probably cause her some emotional issues contending with your beauty standards.

 

I don't think she'd take it that seriously. After all, LBS is also "average" himself (well to me, and not that average is bad). It's not like he can go out and get tons of attractive girl falling for him. That average girl will probably have an easier time cheating on him with attractive guys than he does with attractive girls.

[Fudgie]

You know what LBS, I retract my earlier statements because I'm made aware of your attitude, which I did not know before.

 

"I would date an average woman but she'd have to be okay with me masturbating/having fantasies with pics of attractive women because she's not 'hot' enough to satisfy me."

 

You know what? You should only date attractive women. Go for the 9s and 10s and don't you think about going for ANYONE who doesn't strike you as gorgeous the moment you lay eyes on them.

 

Please don't date average women. Please don't, ever, with the attitude that you've expressed. Women deserve someone who will love them and think they are attractive and hot and desirable and not "need' other things to fantasize because they aren't satisifed. Women deserve someone who is satisfied with them and their body. You're going to be wasting their time and hurting them if you date them with that attitude. Really, I don't think you understand how offensive this is and how hurtful it is.

 

So no, please don't ever settle...either find a 9/10 who will want to be with you, or don't find anyone....because you settling with an average woman is going to hurt her in the end. I feel for her.

[newwave]

Unfrotunately there are many guys like him and it's just sad. Like the one guy I saw on Craigslist looking for a wife who was about 45 and obese and him saying "no fatties". With that attitude I can see why that guy is 45 and single. Same thing with LBS. I have a feeling unless he changes his mind, he'll be 50 and a virgin and at that point he can kiss ever finding a girlfriend good bye. I am attractive but if some man was with me and wasn't attracted I'd be deeply hurt.

[ProtestTheHero]

Why don't we concentrate on getting an even average girl interested before we talk about his opportunity to hurt her down the road. I think a lot of what LBS is saying and a lot of what he feels would change should the opportunity arise for him to prove himself. What your head speaks is not always what your heart knows, and it's a lot easier to say some of what he's saying when you're angry and frustrated than when you're facing the actual situation.

[Fudgie]

Yeah I know I'm not everyone's cup of tea, just like how everyone is not my cup of tea.

 

I would not be with someone who I found so unattractive that I felt the need to fantasize about others to feel that void. If I have to do that, the person isn't for me. I'd be so freaking hurt if I got with a guy and found out that he did this. It's so not fair to me and is a waste of of time.

 

LBS, I would explore WHY you feel the need for only 9/10 women. Yes, men love beautiful women, but the vast majority of men are able to appreciate the beauty in those who aren't 9/10s and be attracted to them, fall in love with them, marry, have sex, etc. It's totally normal to love beautiful (flawless) women but it is NOT normal to exclude all others who are not flawless. When I say you "exclude" them, I mean that you can't find them satisfying. You need to explore these feelings, LBS.

[Fudgie]

Why don't we concentrate on getting an even average girl interested before we talk about his opportunity to hurt her down the road. I think a lot of what LBS is saying and a lot of what he feels would change should the opportunity arise for him to prove himself. What your head speaks is not always what your heart knows, and it's a lot easier to say some of what he's saying when you're angry and frustrated than when you're facing the actual situation.

 

I hope you're right, and that reminds to be seen. For his sake (and the "average woman's" sake), I hope he will change his mind once he talks to a woman. But we'll have to see, Honestly, I don't know.

[newwave]

He might change his mind if he meets the one. I once met a man I was in love with but ashamed to be seen with him because he was a 4 at best. Though he treated me like a queen and was a great guy I was so shallow. Long story short it's the guy I want now and it's possible I blew the best option ever because of this early attitude. I'd hate him to have the same thing happen, not knowing if the person you really wanted would ever be ready to be with you.

[Fudgie]

Oh man that would really stink!!

 

I guess to others, my boyfriend is a 4 (his words! Not mine) but he is very attractive to me. I'm glad that I had this mindset and was able to be with him and not be ashamed because boy, I'd be missing out!

 

LBS would be missing out, that's for sure.

[tiredofvampires]

Why don't we concentrate on getting an even average girl interested before we talk about his opportunity to hurt her down the road. I think a lot of what LBS is saying and a lot of what he feels would change should the opportunity arise for him to prove himself. What your head speaks is not always what your heart knows, and it's a lot easier to say some of what he's saying when you're angry and frustrated than when you're facing the actual situation.

 

Another dude I can't rep again yet, lol.

 

TOTALLY agreed, PTH.

 

But the problem (and it's a bit reflexive) is that the attitude which produced those angry words is the attitude that prevents him from viewing the dating process through a realistic, reasonable lens and therefore, having a crack at a chance with anyone. In which case, he will, to spite his own face, continue to narrowly pursue only certain types of women because of his certain prevailing obsessions and fixated ideas about "attractive" women vs. "unattractive"/average women and their potential to become girlfriends. Looking through his current lens, he is trapping himself in a losing proposition -- and that losing proposition then damns him to this anger and frustration.

 

So it is a self-perpetuating situation.

 

He can't and won't get an "average" looking girl until he's able to conceive of one as potentially attractive and desirable, girlfriend-able and right for him. Barring that shift of thinking, he will continue to flail like this, and feel angry and frustrated of his own making.

 

And post hyperbole like this, which then only will serve to alienate the ENA female population.

[newwave]

Fudgie, it's a good thing you didn't have the same mindest as LBS (or me) because you would have missed out on a great thing. I often wonder what would have happened if I hadn't been so afraid of getting involved with the one I want. I'd probably be married to him now instead of posting on a message board at 39 years old, still being single, wondering if I'd ever get married, if he'll come around, or if I'll find someone else if he don't. I fear he's heading down the same road.