"women perfer men who are within their leagues,men just tend to choose the best in town"

[Cognitive_Canine]

They want boyfriends who are their age though. Dating an older man is an idea, not a relationship..for most young women. Fudgie is the exception and even she said she dates older because she's old at heart.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Sure, having more years gives you a longer time to have more experiences. But, it doesn't always equate more experiences.

 

I doubt that many people have been to a psych ward, excommunicated their father (and grandfather), has a crazy mother like I do, has been mugged, and has been in a 4 year long, LDR relationship by my age. Do I think that makes me more mature? No, because in the end I could have learned nothing.

 

Maturity is not what you've seen, it's how you react to it.

[Sparkly Eyes]

I want sex AND a relationship. That is what is so frustrating, because I can't get either of them.

 

I guess I just want to experience sex just once. Whacking off...well, it feels good, but I'm sure it doesn't compare to real sex. And I want to experience a blowjob, footjob, and handjob (with a girl's hand, not my own.)

 

And I definitely want a relationship to go along with that. Are you seriously saying that an 19 year old girl wouldn't be interested in starting a relationship? I see so many girls with boyfriends, that it's obvious that they want relationships as well, not just sex. If you just wanted sex, you'd go have one night stands.

 

lol, 19 year old who stay in relationships long term and are willing to date an older guy will date a more mature guy, not you. Excuse my bluntness. I'm not saying it can't ever happen, but the odds are definitely not in your favor.

 

If you really want a real relationship, I find you insisting on the young age of girls a little creepy. But like I said I think you're doing it for egotistical reasons and to escape from who you really are.

[Fudgie]

I don't think you should be focusing on numbers, LBS. Think of it this way: don't go for younger, but don't go for older either. Just focus on people in your class/social circle who seem to be your "type", regardless of age OR how experienced you think they are.

 

I definitely agree with others, I don't think you should fixate on finding someone younger because you're inexperienced and want to "experience it all now".

 

So far, I have seen no reason why someone at or around your age (even 25ish) wouldn't give you a chance. You're going to school, you live on your own, etc. Yes, you're a virgin but I actually know several 25-something year old female virgins who are just waiting for the right person.

 

Definitely don't fixate on age. You'll be missing out. Big time.

[LightbulbSun]

I don't think you should be focusing on numbers, LBS. Think of it this way: don't go for younger, but don't go for older either. Just focus on people in your class/social circle who seem to be your "type", regardless of age OR how experienced you think they are.

 

I definitely agree with others, I don't think you should fixate on finding someone younger because you're inexperienced and want to "experience it all now".

 

So far, I have seen no reason why someone at or around your age (even 25ish) wouldn't give you a chance. You're going to school, you live on your own, etc. Yes, you're a virgin but I actually know several 25-something year old female virgins who are just waiting for the right person.

 

Definitely don't fixate on age. You'll be missing out. Big time.

 

I get what you're saying, and I agree.

 

I would be open to dating a 28 year old, or even a few years older than I am (I think the cutoff would be 32), if we got along and had similar interests and our personalities meshed. I'd say my dating age range is from 18-32 years old...that's pretty fair, isn't it?

 

She would just have to understand that I am insecure and need reassurance. However, finding a girl who liked anxious, shyer guys, and didn't feel like niceness was a turnoff would be a dream for me. Also, she would have to understand that I'm broke right now, and if she wants a lot of gifts or free food, that would have to be a dealbreaker.

[Fudgie]

Sounds like a fair age range to me.

 

Honestly, from what you described "girl who likes shyer guys, fine with you being experienced, etc"...I actually think you'd find that in women your age as well as younger! I'm not sure if you experienced this but when I was in high school, older guys (like 4 years older, not like Fudgie-boyfriend-older) were all the rage. Kind of went the same in college too but not as much toward the end. I think younger women, some of whom may feel insecure with themselves, may seek out older men because of the EXPERIENCE factor. As they get older, they get more secure with themselves and life in general, and therefore don't demand their guy to be older, guiding, and really successful. I really do believe someone your age, once you find that you're compatible with her, would be fine with you being inexperienced and a little nervous at first. She'll be comfortable with herself and not need her partner to be the one "showing her the ropes".

[Cognitive_Canine]

I get what you're saying, and I agree.

 

I would be open to dating a 28 year old, or even a few years older than I am (I think the cutoff would be 32), if we got along and had similar interests and our personalities meshed. I'd say my dating age range is from 18-32 years old...that's pretty fair, isn't it?

 

She would just have to understand that I am insecure and need reassurance. However, finding a girl who liked anxious, shyer guys, and didn't feel like niceness was a turnoff would be a dream for me. Also, she would have to understand that I'm broke right now, and if she wants a lot of gifts or free food, that would have to be a dealbreaker.

 

This will be the hardest thing to find in a partner.

[Fudgie]

This will be the hardest thing to find in a partner.

 

Agreed.

 

LBS, it's fine to be inexperienced and a little nervous. really, it is.

 

However, I think you'll need to work on building up confidence (perhaps as the relationship goes on?) and not asking for reassurance. We at ENA, of course, can help you with that.

 

I was with a man once (when I was 18, he was 33) and he was always needing reassurance. It wasn't that he was inexperienced, but I was his first "younger woman" and he constantly was asking me things and questioning my feelings because he just didn't know what to do. Despite me losing my virginity to him, he still did it. It really drove me crazy because I always told him I loved him but it never seemed to be enough, no matter what I did, or what we talked about.

 

Inexperience/nervousness will NOT be bad in terms of a relationship, it's the insecurity and reassurance. You don't need that. You just need to trust in yourself and the woman, and hopefully, you will because you'll really like her.

 

When we all first started dating, there was that initial nervousness and worry. Yes that's normal. However, this need for reassurance is not...LBS, that's from you. It does not come from inexperience, it comes from you worrying and being a fussbudget. You're making this a lot harder than it needs to me. But that's the thing...you can overcome this.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Good post. Especially the last paragraph.

[Philos]

Sure, having more years gives you a longer time to have more experiences. But, it doesn't always equate more experiences.

 

I doubt that many people have been to a psych ward, excommunicated their father (and grandfather), has a crazy mother like I do, has been mugged, and has been in a 4 year long, LDR relationship by my age. Do I think that makes me more mature? No, because in the end I could have learned nothing.

 

Maturity is not what you've seen, it's how you react to it.

 

If maturity is reacting to what you've seen, then how can younger people be mature in the first place?

 

Even without seeing things and reacting to things in a mature way, my point is that it is often a hollow maturity (reacting without experience) that doesn't apply the same wisdom to as many different scenarios and situations as maturity obtained reacting from experience.

 

I guess that's just the type of maturity I want personally. Often times being mature about one or two things in life let's you skate by for years and years on other things you are immature and naive about. I want someone whose hitten that brick wall before.

[Fudgie]

If maturity is reacting to what you've seen, then how can younger people be mature in the first place?

 

It can really depend on how they are raised.

 

I was raised in an...interesting household. Both of my sibs have developmental disorders, I had health problems, I saw my parent's marriage go sour into a passable friendship, I was a witness to a couple of deaths in the hospital by the time I was 8, learning waaaaayyy too much about the world too young...stuff like that.

 

Had I not had those experiences, there is no way I'd be the person I am today.

[Cognitive_Canine]

If maturity is reacting to what you've seen, then how can younger people be mature in the first place?

 

Even without seeing things and reacting to things in a mature way, my point is that it is often a hollow maturity (reacting without experience) that doesn't apply the same wisdom to as many different scenarios and situations as maturity obtained reacting from experience.

 

I guess that's just the type of maturity I want personally. Often times being mature about one or two things in life let's you skate by for years and years on other things you are immature and naive about. I want someone whose hitten that brick wall before.

 

Sometimes maturity comes from a deeper understanding and observation. Many times people will make the same mistake over and over again. Just because they have experienced it does not mean they necessarily have learned anything from it. If you hit the wall over and over again, it doesn't make you more mature because of it. Someone could have easily avoided the wall using their inner maturity of recognizing that it was there and that it should be avoided.

 

For instance people often reward and praise those who've overcome an addiction. Yet, isn't it better to be someone who is capable of recognizing when they've had enough and never get to that low to begin with?

 

I understand wanting someone who has been there before. I need a partner who has seen darkness like I have and experienced depression so that they can relate to me. However, darkness does not equal maturity.

[Philos]

I've tried rehashing it several times, but I'm just going to leave it as it is. That, I feel, is maturity on my part, because I've learned from years spent on these boards that it really doesn't matter and that you've got your perspective, and I've got mine.

 

Though what I mean is something I feel that you'd agree to, I failed to word it adequately and explain it adequately, and now the meaning is mired 3 posts deep and is sidelined by semantics.

 

Mainly I failed to impact my statements. For example, when I say I want someone who has hitten that brick wall before - I meant someone who had hitten it and learned from it. I just didn't put the learned from it in there. Oh well.

[LightbulbSun]

Well, I know that I'm bipolar, and I don't want to date someone who's bipolar. We would drive each other crazy.

 

Same with social anxiety. Someone has to be the outgoing one. If both of us are unable to relate to the world, and are loners, we'll just sit at home and vegetate. Someone needs to be the one to pull the other outside.

 

As far as experience goes, I've experienced lots of things. And I do have the experience of a 28 year old...that is, without the sexual/romantic experience. If I met someone tomorrow who was around my age, didn't let things stop her from living her life, but was defunct in the relationship department...and was attractive to me, that would be my dream girl.

 

Sometimes life doesn't go the way you plan. But life is what happens while you're making other plans, as John Lennon once said. Maybe my other plans need to come right now, and there's a reason why it hasn't happened for me yet?

 

Chris Martin of Coldplay lost his virginity at age 26. Now I'm 2 years older, but that makes me feel a little better.

[cursedgirl]

LBS you spend way too much time thinking and debating with yourself.seriously, arent you exhausted? why not just do things? how many kilos have you lost since last time you said you were gonna start working out?

and stop analyzing what beautiful girls like,what your like and how they differ. And stop dreaming about what kind of girl suits you cuz reality would never be the same.

and you value too much about virginity.Stop counting who had sex at what age.that's not even comparable.and it's becoming annoying.

[NightLily]

LBS you spend way too much time thinking and debating with yourself.seriously, arent you exhausted? why not just do things? how many kilos have you lost since last time you said you were gonna start working out?

and stop analyzing what beautiful girls like,what your like and how they differ. And stop dreaming about what kind of girl suits you cuz reality would never be the same.

and you value too much about virginity.Stop counting who had sex at what age.that's not even comparable.and it's becoming annoying.

 

Couldn't agree enough. You seem to be fixating at this point when the key is action. Fixating on getting a girl or losing your virginity is a sure way to chase them all away. And you are really asking for too much from the girl from the sounds of it. She has to be okay with you having low self esteem, dragging you into the real world, that you are broke, struggle with mental illness, overweight, and she has to reassure you? You are going to need to cut down that list to 2-3 things because those are all major.

[Cognitive_Canine]

A woman isn't going to be able to save you. Sounds like you may have the problem that a lot of young women face of 'Disney delusions'. You want a woman who is outgoing to help you out, and patient, and reassuring, and okay with insecurity, and understanding of your inexperience, and understanding of your social anxiety, and understanding of your financial situation. And, I also think you want a woman who is willing to help you fix all of these things. Or maybe you think losing your virginity or having a girlfriend will automatically help these things. It won't. Having a girlfriend won't make you any more confident. Losing your virginity will not help you talk to women. No one and nothing can fix your issues but you. And, you can do it, LBS. You just have to start believing in yourself. If anything, a girlfriend will raise your insecurity and anxiety with this state of mind. You are expecting too much from one person.

 

I don't know a man or woman who meets that criteria. And I know some real saints too.

[Fudgie]

Everything CC has said is dead-on correct.

 

LBS, you need give yourself more credit here. You can't expect a girl to fix these issues for you. I know other women who think the same way about a guy. A relationship is all about a partnership, not one person leading the other.

You have these issues and you need to (and can!!) fix them yourself. A girlfriend can't do that for you...no one can but you.

[Philos]

Everything CC has said is dead-on correct.

 

LBS, you need give yourself more credit here. You can't expect a girl to fix these issues for you. I know other women who think the same way about a guy. A relationship is all about a partnership, not one person leading the other.

You have these issues and you need to (and can!!) fix them yourself. A girlfriend can't do that for you...no one can but you.

 

Dead right.

 

Remember this - if you're not happy with your life and satisfied with it, getting a girlfriend won't help. You may say "Oh I'm mainly unsatisfied that I don't have a girlfriend!" but believe me - once you get one the dissatisfaction won't go away and you'll just be unhappy and have someone else emotionally tied up in a leaking ship. You have to tackle your problems, look at what underneath everything is causing you your distress.

[Starrgrl]

LBS you need to work on your self confidence. Insecurity is SUCH a turn off. I don't see anything majorly wrong with being 28 and inexperienced, but you keep going on about it. Even if it's not a huge deal, you're consciousness will MAKE IT a big deal.

 

Go to the gym, get out there, don't overanalyse everything! Girls do that, guys shouldn't.

[NightLily]

LBS you need to work on your self confidence. Insecurity is SUCH a turn off. I don't see anything majorly wrong with being 28 and inexperienced, but you keep going on about it. Even if it's not a huge deal, you're consciousness will MAKE IT a big deal.

 

Go to the gym, get out there, don't overanalyse everything! Girls do that, guys shouldn't.

 

Hey now.. I am a female and don't over analyze in most situations. Getting a little tired of the "girls do this" and guys do that arguments cropping up lately.

[greywolf]

LBS, I think this is excellent advice.

[Starrgrl]

Hey now.. I am a female and don't over analyze in most situations. Getting a little tired of the "girls do this" and guys do that arguments cropping up lately.

 

I meant it like, you see girls doing it more often (not that overanalysing for girls is a good thing) but it's more common, when guys do it it's pretty annoying bc imo it's such an annoying thing to do (and less guys overthink).

[LightbulbSun]

Sometimes maturity comes from a deeper understanding and observation. Many times people will make the same mistake over and over again. Just because they have experienced it does not mean they necessarily have learned anything from it. If you hit the wall over and over again, it doesn't make you more mature because of it. Someone could have easily avoided the wall using their inner maturity of recognizing that it was there and that it should be avoided.

 

Well, what I've observed is that I put the cart before the horse. I expect a pretty girl to react negatively towards me, even before I get to know her...yet I desire her simply because she is pretty, without getting to know her.

 

This perpetual "wall", as you put it, is my own insecurity, and I need to get past it by treating all women the same. Not treat the beautiful ones with any more respect than the average ones, and get to know people for the inner them, rather than the outer them. Stop thinking with my penis, in other words.

 

Also, I need to form stronger friendship bonds, and a wider social circle. This can only be achieved by letting down any previous negative assumptions, and realizing that I can't control how people react to me...therefore, I can only control how I react to them.

 

For instance people often reward and praise those who've overcome an addiction. Yet, isn't it better to be someone who is capable of recognizing when they've had enough and never get to that low to begin with?

 

Yes, and people shouldn't be rewarded for beating social anxiety, either. Because it's not something to be proud of, having social anxiety. We are social beings, even the introverts, and we were meant to handle social interactions and relationships with ease instead of stress and worry.

 

I understand wanting someone who has been there before. I need a partner who has seen darkness like I have and experienced depression so that they can relate to me. However, darkness does not equal maturity.

 

I don't necessarily want to date someone who's bipolar or has social anxiety. I'd rather date a 'normal girl.' However, again that begs the question to what is normal. I think it's normal to listen to Tori Amos, for example, because she rocks. Other people might think it's more normal to listen to Metallica. That doesn't necessarily make my opinion or their opinion any more or less valid, that only means that we're human and we all have individual preferences.

 

I certainly don't want someone who's depressed and mopey all the time. I prefer happy people. When I'm not depressed and sad (which is most of the time), I actually am very happy.

 

There is only one thing that I agree with you on about, and that is physical preference. If you're overweight and expecting to date a skinny model...well, it might happen. But you'd be better off with someone who's overweight, because A.) they can relate to you better, and B.) You probably have similar lifestyles and similar outlooks on life.

 

Look for people who are similar to you...but not too similar. And if you're depressed or have low self esteem, definitely don't look for someone with those traits. You'd be better off beating the depression and raising your self esteem instead, because then you'd be a catch.

[Cognitive_Canine]

You completely missed my point about the darkness. So, you want someone who's never experienced depression like you have because you like happy people? A person who hasn't experienced depression will not be able to relate to you.