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Keraron

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I was recently quite inspired by the modern Christian (Catholic) idea of romantic Love:

 

That true love is in the mind/heart and in the soul, and is completed/sealed with the body. Basically, it promotes the emphasis of a value-ful love, based on compassion, empathy, friendship and all other nice things, and puts sexual attraction last, as a kind of seal to the whole relationship.

 

I have felt quite deceived by the whole glorification of sex in my experience and those which I learn of around the world and my friends. Most people nowadays seem to date or even get into relationships just to have sex, and as soon as the attraction vanishes they break up and find someone else to share the thrill with.

 

I am quite bored by this endless cycle of dating, being in a relationship, and then breaking up, and then fishing again...

 

What do you think are the advantages and disadvantages of having sex only when you know that you will be in a committed and binding relationship with another person?

 

I think the main advantage is that we would put less emphasis on the whole sexual part of the relationship and thereby are more prone to find and value a person for their non-physical qualities, their friendship, etc.

Actually, I think that when we have sex with that person only after knowing him/her for a lot of time, that would add MUCH more lasting and satisfying sex.

 

EDIT: btw, when I talk about "marriage" I simply mean having found the right person and being committed to them, knowing them already since years, etc. and not necessarily the ceremonial marriage.

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It really differs depending on how much you value sex, and what your position is on it.

 

For example, you talk about glorifying sex being something that has happened to your generation and has meant it's all people seem to seek instead of love. But to me, the whole religious ideal of placing sex as something special and sacred that only happens between married couples, glorifies it far more and builds it up to a level it perhaps doesn't deserve.

 

I enjoy sex. It can be very intimate and passionate and loving. But it also doesn't have to be. I think putting too much significance into when and where sex should be had can put a lot of pressure on people and make it into this blown-up goal which needn't be half such a big deal.

For me personally, sexual compatibility in a relationship is important, so if I were going to marry someone I would want to know we were compatible on all levels, not leave a few as a surprise for the wedding night.

 

I also can't imagine marrying someone who I hadn't shared the intimacy of sex with. Sex for me is more than just the actual act - it is playful, bonding, soulful, loving, caring, and the build up as well as the come down afterwards feel important to me in developing a deep relationship with someone. So no sex until marriage - not really an option, since I wouldn't want to marry someone who I hadn't experienced that connection with.

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I think the main advantage is that we would put less emphasis on the whole sexual part of the relationship and thereby are more prone to find and value a person for their non-physical qualities, their friendship, etc.

 

 

I feel that is true of having sex with anyone you want to as well. I have an open relationship and because I _can_ have sex with anyone I want to, and because I have a lot of good sex in my life I get to find people who really are soul mates of mine to spend my life with. AND I get to have a lot of hot amazing kinky sex on the way.

 

I think sex should matter less, just in the other direction.

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I completely agree with HouseKitten's post.

 

In my experience, Christian/catholic girls can be the most premiscuous, simply because they have never had it - their sex drive drives them crazy.

I honestly just fell for a girl I thought was a good-natured christian girl, only to have her dump me straight away because I wasn't horny enough (my best friend no less!).

 

Love is a fickle thing.

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Agreed. My grandparents have been married 60 years and they didn't have sex until they were married and neither did my godparents who've been married 30 years. I asked them about whether they felt they needed to "know" each other sexually prior to marriage and they said absolutely not. In answer to my question my godparents stated that they felt they had a lifetime to fix any issues which might have arose sexually post marriage since they had the foundation of love. Additionally,my grandfather said that our generation is lost and that we conveniently place importance on sex when it comes to compatibility but not so much importance on the things which really matter in terms of sustaining a relationship when your husband has ED or your wife is experiencing menopause. Furthermore, the fact that he loved my grandmother prior to having sex with her made it so that it was not much of an adjustment for him to remain in love post nature reducing their sexual abilities. He then cited the high STD and divorce rates compared to now and when he they married as evidence of a generation overly concerned with things which while important don't factor into a successful marriage. The whole try before you buy is illogical. I mean would you insure a car prior to purchasing it just to see how good the policy was and because you wanted to really feel like both a car and policy holder? What if the policy's great but the car turns out to be a lemon? How little self esteem people have amazes me. I mean in some states you have to have a license to own a dog. Certainly a man will need more than a great sexual prowess to get me to share my body with him. The incidence of STD's such as HIV/AIDS, HPV herpes and etc are proof that the notion isn't infallible.

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@CmplxDame08

 

While it's great that your grandparents and godparents have had that experience, and no doubt a lot of people also wait till marriage and have no regrets, it is not for everyone.

 

I do think part of the divide in attitudes between your grandparents and someone my age would be also related to the changing way we view marriage in this equation. In my grandparents day, marriage was essential and unquestioned as the logical step in a relationship. These days, people are far more likely to cohabit for several years before marriage, or even forgo marriage entirely. Marriage has stopped being the norm that everyone must conform to, and has become much more of a choice than ever before - unmarried people are not looked down on, they're just choosing a different way of life. And with this rejection of the idea that marriage is the final inevitable stage of a relationship, comes also the idea that you needn't wait for a wedding ring to sleep with someone, since the ways things are now, you might never bother to get married at all.

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I completely agree with what your grandparents and godparents say. People are so focused on sex that they lose sight of everything else. It is to the point that people have no fear about sharing their bodies with complete strangers but get terrified if they have to ask someone they have been having sex with for months if they are in an official relationship! Or...women have no problem having sex with someone they barely know but then expect the guy to call them all the time because they don't want to give the guy "the wrong impression" and show too much forwardness!

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It's obviously the most logical thing to do. But that's always going to be a very difficult thing to convince people of doing.

 

How is it the most logical?

 

Not knowing what kind of sexual being your partner is?

 

How horrible it would be to marry and find out that your partner uses diapers to masturbate (this does happen) or that your partner has zero want for sex (also happens) or that you cannot physically fit inside your partner (also happens) or many other problems that could arise.

 

I think the best route is to wait quite a while before getting physical. Enjoy the little baby steps in relationships. Start with an emotional and mental connection and then apply it to sex once you really love each other.

 

I do not think it is best to make a lifetime committment and then show each other a different side of themselves. Although my boyfriend and I waited a really long time to get physical, I felt like sex opened up this entire floodgate of information about each other. We had a lot of struggles in the beginning with issues about how we approach sex. We learned from each other and now speak the same language. I can't imagine going into a marriage without dealing with these issues beforehand.

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Society has been wrong before and the STD rate is startling. I am also really concerned for these children who seem to have been taught that commitment doesn't really exist. Marriage is not just about love it grants the people in the relationships legal securities when life happens. I respect myself and I will not spend more time shopping for great interest rates(on my student loans) than I will on making sure the man I marry and have children with is a suitable life partner. I know cohabiting is becoming more and more commonplace but I believe it's because women have begun to lower their standards and behave like men traditionally have. If I were a man I wouldn't marry a woman if she were already having sex with me, staying over, sharing money with me and fulfilling all the duties a wife would. I mean they stand to gain the most from this since if unmarried the challenge to paternity is easier, when and if the relationship fails (it usually does because the door is always visible) and the man doesn't have to fear for his financial future upon the relationship's end (assuming he makes more and that the issue of palimony is off the table). Personally, I think men are the real winners here. People can only do to you what you let them and we teach others how to treat us. Most women have now taught men that you don't have to put in work to get a wife.

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So, sex is the icebreaker? How common is the diaper fetish? Those examples seem extreme. If it's that bad the law does allow for an annulment, in which case the marriage doesn't legally exist anymore. I discuss sexual preferences with the men I date and I am absolutely sure that my current bf and I would have great sexual compatibility. Since I am a virgin I am open to growing in that way with my eventual husband. As opposed to getting him to fit into whatever I did that had me and my ex swinging from the chandelier.

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I think co-habiting is more popular nowadays because it helps to cut costs.

 

As for me, when I first started dating I always thought I would wait for sex until marriage (mainly because my mom was constantly telling how evil and yucky sex was and that it was only for creating children). She kind of frightened me about what sex was.

 

I ended up not waiting until marriage to have sex and have had some unhappy as well as happy experiences with it.

 

I do want to see how I mesh with someone sexually before I would want to marry them. Also, it is hard to keep away from sex, esp if we have feelings for each other

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I wouldn't marry someone unless knew my partner. And in my opinion, their sexual side is an important part of a person. I'd want to know that side of them too and I'd want to introduce them to that side of me. I want complete compatibility.

 

What exactly do you mean by "sexual side"?

Is it something that cannot change over the years you are committed to stay together?

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So, sex is the icebreaker? How common is the diaper fetish? Those examples seem extreme. If it's that bad the law does allow for an annulment, in which case the marriage doesn't legally exist anymore. I discuss sexual preferences with the men I date and I am absolutely sure that my current bf and I would have great sexual compatibility. Since I am a virgin I am open to growing in that way with my eventual husband. As opposed to getting him to fit into whatever I did that had me and my ex swinging from the chandelier.

 

I was a virgin and so was my boyfriend when we had sex. Until we had sex, we didn't know what our wants nor needs were.

 

And yes, my examples were extreme but there are plenty of examples that are perfectly normal but cause two people to not be compatible at all.

 

My boyfriend had religious issues and I had issues with naivety. Luckily, our issues were something we worked through. It was extremely difficult but we both recognized that change needed to be made and we both put effort into it.

 

And yes, it would be an icebreaker if I wasn't sexually compatible with someone and we couldn't work through it. I've tried taking sex out of the equation for me (even going as far as to looking into libido killing drugs) to solve problems. But, I will not be unsatisfied until death. And, I wouldn't want a partner that was unsatisfied. That would also pain me too much.

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My boyfriend and I are waiting until marriage to have sex (although we both had sex in our previous relationships), and I have to tell you....IT IS HARD!

 

BUT...I tell you, it definitely builds things up like nothing else. My ex fiancee and I waited for over 5 years to have sex and really developed a strong friendship and romantic bond. When we finally had sex, it was really good for both being virgins. It was worth it. It didn't work out, but you know what, that's OK. We did have a good relationship for several years and I'm glad it wasn't all about sex.

 

Now that my boyfriend and I have decided to wait until marriage this time around, it is crazy hard for me after having sexual experience already. But it's like a tease. When he massages me and I cut his hair and we talk sweetly, when I see him work with the church youth group, etc., it builds up this passion inside that I can't release! It only intensifies my feelings more. It started off where I was interested in him but had issues with him at the same time. Now that we are working on those issues and I'm getting closer to him, I am dying to have sex all day and every day. So be kinda warned. Waiting will keep you over the edge with passion. But it's a good energy. It's great to know you have to find other ways to keep each other entertained.

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That happens all the time in other aspects of the relationship including sex. What you see before marriage is not necessarily what you see after marriage. Many many people have been blindsided by a complete turnaround in their partner's personality or sexual compatibility after marriage.

 

Do you think that happens due to partners not being themselves or that marriage changes people?

 

I would believe it is the first.

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Most women have now taught men that you don't have to put in work to get a wife.

 

By that analysis though, men who cohabit are also behaving like husbands. So women are also gaining a husband who isn't legally a husband, financial gain from joint accounts and sex with a committed partner... I don't think women are losing out on anything.

 

My view on marriage is that it is the final stamp of commitment on a relationship. It's not a beginning because you're already together - it's just another step. For me, getting married will mean that my partner and I have seen each other at our best and our worst, and still love each other enough to want to spend the rest of our lives together. I would not want to gamble my future happiness by marrying someone I didn't thoroughly know on every level, and I don't believe you can have that knowledge without living with someone and sleeping with them. Why marry someone that you haven't fully experienced? How can you possibly judge whether you can manage a life together?

 

since if unmarried the challenge to paternity is easier

 

I'm not sure what you mean here - DNA testing does not improve in accuracy if you are married to someone.

 

If I were a man I wouldn't marry a woman if she were already having sex with me, staying over, sharing money with me and fulfilling all the duties a wife would.

 

You say this as though men in general are looking to stay out of marriage entirely. But thousands of men are perfectly happy to get married and have no fear of it. It is not a question of tying a guy down before you start letting him have privileges in case he steals your sexual innocence and runs off into the great blue yonder. Some men are just as happy to get married as women are, just as some women are as happy to stay in an unmarried relationship as some men are.

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What exactly do you mean by "sexual side"?

Is it something that cannot change over the years you are committed to stay together?

 

While it will change like personality will change over time, my sexual side has a core that will probably remain mostly unchanged for the rest of my life.

 

And, like personality, I do not have control in what direction it decides to shift/stay in.

 

I can compromise, I might be able to learn to love things or at least tolerate them. But, if I can't...I can't. And if he can't, he can't. It would really suck to be in that situation but I know I couldn't bear to deny myself sexual satisfaction for a lifetime, even if he was perfect in every other way.

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You say this as though men in general are looking to stay out of marriage entirely. But thousands of men are perfectly happy to get married and have no fear of it. It is not a question of tying a guy down before you start letting him have privileges in case he steals your sexual innocence and runs off into the great blue yonder. Some men are just as happy to get married as women are, just as some women are as happy to stay in an unmarried relationship as some men are.

 

Those are my thoughts. Just as many men and women want to get married. You don't have to hold of on sex/doing nice things for them to get a man to marry you.

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What exactly do you mean by "sexual side"?

 

Oh, I forgot to answer the first question.

 

If you know me as a friend, you seriously would have no idea what I'm actually like in the bedroom. I am completely a different person (in a good way.). My boyfriend is the same way, complete surprise when we started getting physical.

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