Gardasil

[doyathink]

Great post, TOV. I agree with you. I think it would be ridiculous to think we should trust the FDA, and the medical profession 100%. I feel their #1 goal is money. We would have many cures already if the money was in the cure, and not in the treatment. We cant be blind to believe these ppl are only in it for our health, and wellbeing. If that were true....it wouldn't bankrupt us to have routine surgery.

[Perfect Dark]

I am not rational?

 

 

 

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE because I am not doing something like the "herd" now I am stupid, not rational and I do not have a medical degree. Cute.

 

You're taking this far too personally. No one is bashing you, everyone is just stating their opinion.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

I am not rational?

 

 

 

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE because I am not doing something like the "herd" now I am stupid, not rational and I do not have a medical degree. Cute.

 

I think it is dangerous not to vaccinate children with proven vaccines and usually people's reasoning behind it is not rational but emotional.

 

You say "herd" like we're bashing you for not wearing an in-style pair of shoes. This is about public safety.

[greywolf]

One thing I have to wonder.

 

For all the people here who are pro-vaccination, I wonder if their opinion would change if they were the ones who had a child who was a perfectly healthy baby until a vaccination (or a group of them) caused them permanent serious illness or death.

 

I wonder if the response would be, "Well, it was a roll of the dice, and at least I know it's saved other people's children and been a global boon."

 

I have to wonder about people that live in 3rd world countries where these vaccinations are not readily available. How do you think they feel when their children get one of these diseases?

[EQD]

i see a lot more fear on the side of people who are anti-vaccines. the reason i chose to take it, and other vaccinations, was out of logic. I know what's out there, I know the chances of getting that disease, and I know the possible outcomes of the disease, and I know the risks and side-effects of the vaccine.

 

i see a lot more people saying things like, 'well, this 1 person died after getting it and this vaccine is evil' and therefore they aren't going to vaccinate their kids. that all without having any evidence of how or why the child died (like the one in this thread that died of an unrelated cancer.) that to me is fear-mongering.

 

really? thats not what i see. i see the vast majority of people saying "OH thank god stick that needle in me because i just had an HPV scare!/had a family member who had cervical cancer/hpv!"

 

and then i see "now wait just a minute here... how well does this stuff work? and why are these people pushing it so hard if there are no solid facts?"

 

so as i've said. i had no idea it killed people. and still to me that doesnt make me fear it or disapprove of taking it much more than i was already. so thats that.

[Seraphim]

I think it is dangerous not to vaccinate children with proven vaccines and usually people's reasoning behind it is not rational but emotional.

 

You say "herd" like we're bashing you for not wearing an in-style pair of shoes. This is about public safety.

 

You know what, not all scientists tell you all and you can trust the medical community to the hilt if you please I do not.

 

This is about bashing someone that does not want to agree with the herd.

[annie24]

Great post, TOV. I agree with you. I think it would be ridiculous to think we should trust the FDA, and the medical profession 100%. I feel their #1 goal is money. We would have many cures already if the money was in the cure, and not in the treatment. We cant be blind to believe these ppl are only in it for our health, and wellbeing. If that were true....it wouldn't bankrupt us to have routine surgery.

 

i know, and trust me, it pisses me off. there is a lot more money into developing drugs you have to take every single day (lipitor, for example) than for antibiotics. I have talked to drug executives. they tell me they are trying, it's just hard. oh well.

 

the FDA is a government agency, however, and is not for profit.

 

what i do know is that for every drug on the market, 100 drugs were tried and only 10 made it to phase 1 clinical trials and only 1 of those were able to make it on the market. what you're mainly paying for is future development of drugs and treatments.

 

'curing cancer' is not so easy.

[annie24]

You know what, not all scientists tell you all and you can trust the medical community to the hilt if you please I do not.

 

This is about bashing someone that does not want to agree with the herd.

 

It's not good to blindly trust, and neither is it good to blindly distrust!

 

what is it specifically that you are distrustful about? do you have any evidence, proof, data, etc....?

[Seraphim]

And btw my son IS vaccinated for ALL the childhood diseases. Then I looked into it.

[EQD]

well, people do the best they can. it would be completely unethical to have a proper control group, in which healthy humans are injected with the virus and see if they do or don't develop it after being exposed to the vaccine. there are laws against medical research like that.

 

i understand why you are hesitant, as it is still a very new vaccine. hopefully, us trailblazers will be able to generate some good long-term data.

 

 

hopefully indeed.

 

but i dont think that refusing to be a guinea pig for this vaccine makes me silly, stupid, chicken poop, or unintellegent. so i'll take my miniscule chances with the cervical cancer.

 

it is absolutely unethical to make a control group like that. but thats something that i could have faith in if results were derrived from that.

[greywolf]

You know what, not all scientists tell you all and you can trust the medical community to the hilt if you please I do not.

 

This is about bashing someone that does not want to agree with the herd.

 

Vic, do not turn yourself into a victim. You came onto this thread preaching about the dangers of vaccinations and evil pharmaceutical companies. When you make harsh accusations like that, people are going to defend themselves.

[karvala]

You know what, not all scientists tell you all and you can trust the medical community to the hilt if you please I do not.

 

This is about bashing someone that does not want to agree with the herd.

 

I don't think it is, I think it's about challenging someone who seems to be choosing not to address a large body of evidence. But as your position is, in your description, rational, put your case to us: what is it, specifically, about all vaccines that is bad, and what evidence to do you cite in support of that position? Or alternatively, if you offer no evidence, how do you arrive at your conclusion? This is your chance to educate us.

[Lamour detruit]

I am not rational?

 

 

 

GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE because I am not doing something like the "herd" now I am stupid, not rational and I do not have a medical degree. Cute.

 

For some reason, with all people I have seen that are against vaccinating, whenever arguments come up, their reply is..well, I am not part of the "herd" and not sheep like the rest of you. Just because people do not agree with you, and argue the views involved does not mean they are sheep, it simply means they are thinking rationally for themselves, and questioning things.

 

I do not understand how anyone on this world could be against vaccines. Yes, not all vaccines are the same, and yes..I agree they need to test it to make sure it is safe. But when scientists, time and time again mention the low risk, and high benifit of the vaccine, and when it stops diseases from spreading that used to kill millions of people, then how could anyone say it is a bad thing ?..I am aware there are pharmaceutical companies and such that spread out bogus medicines and what not simply because they want to earn money instead of curing, but this does not imply one should reject everything.

 

I am not referring to this specific example, but vaccines in general. There will always be some people that will have bad reactions, it is hard to say how or what, or if the condition was already going on before the vaccine was inserted, but in the long run, vaccines are too beneficial to argue.

[dangletsbang]

My future children will receive the vaccines I received.

 

If you've ever been to a place over sea, for instance africa, you would understand that some parents would give their own lives for a opportunity our children in the US have. While I agree that some vaccines are completely unecessary..such as gardasil..I disagree with the fact that people group all vaccines and tag them as 'bad'. The pain and suffering some children have to go through because certain vaccines aren't available or even optional is horrible.

 

What is comes down to is the parents choice for their child, every parent has the right to have control of what is done to their child until they are 18 in the US. If that means putting them in danger of obtaining a certain illness because their parents didn't want a smidgen of mercury injected in their body..so be it. If I feel a certain vaccine isn't going to help my child, he/she will not receive it.

[Seraphim]

Vic, do not turn yourself into a victim. You came onto this thread preaching about the dangers of vaccinations and evil pharmaceutical companies. When you make harsh accusations like that, people are going to defend themselves.

 

I am not a victim, it unnecessay however for people to say, that because I do not have a medical degree I have no idea what I am talking about. That I am only thinking out of emotion blah blah. That I would blame a dr if my son got sick etc.THAT is not necessary.It is plain rude.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

You know what, not all scientists tell you all and you can trust the medical community to the hilt if you please I do not.

 

This is about bashing someone that does not want to agree with the herd.

 

you're really confused then, honestly.

[avman]

Moderator note: Keep it respectful and leave out the personal attacks or this thread will be closed and other actions may be taken.

[Perfect Dark]

I wouldn't believe anything I read on the internet regarding medical issues.

[Seraphim]

you're really confused then, honestly.

 

You really think scientists tell you everything?

[greywolf]

I am not a victim, it unnecessay however for people to say, that because I do not have a medical degree I have no idea what I am talking about. That I am only thinking out of emotion blah blah. That I would blame a dr if my son got sick etc.THAT is not necessary.It is plain rude.

 

They are saying that because so far you have not provided any evidence to support your opinion. I consider myself fairly open-minded. I am willing to go over any evidence you could provide.

[hossman]

I do not understand how anyone on this world could be against vaccines.

 

Believe it or not there are people in this world who insist the earth is flat, and that aliens regularly visit this planet and abduct them for medical experiments, and that all the species of this earth are here because 2 of each one were put on a big wooden boat (including every type of dinosaur) along with enough food for all of them for about a month and a half.

 

People believe weird things.

[Seraphim]

They are saying that because so far you have not provided any evidence to support your opinion. I consider myself fairly open-minded. I am willing to go over any evidence you could provide.

 

You did not attack me. I realise. Not giving scientific proof is no reason to crap on someone and isinuate they are irrational and stupid.

[greywolf]

Believe it or not there are people in this world who insist the earth is flat, and that aliens regularly visit this planet and abduct them for medical experiments, and that all the species of this earth are here because 2 of each one were put on a big wooden boat (including every type of dinosaur) along with enough food for all of them for about a month and a half.

 

People believe weird things.

 

Please do not start insulting things from the bible. We don't need to turn this into a religious debate.

[waveseer]

I believe that the underlying reason parents are given complete jurisdiction over the treatment of their well children is the possibility of intuition without empirical evidence. Who are we to say that any given child would not have a detrimental reaction to any given vaccine?

[Seraphim]

Believe it or not there are people in this world who insist the earth is flat, and that aliens regularly visit this planet and abduct them for medical experiments, and that all the species of this earth are here because 2 of each one were put on a big wooden boat (including every type of dinosaur) along with enough food for all of them for about a month and a half.

 

People believe weird things.

 

Complete not necessary and zero to do with the conversation.