It can happen if you really get your act together

[Gateway]

Just some thoughts.

 

i think the most important thing to remember is that there is not one fix for any relationship. It really depends on you and your ex's personality. Most just aint gonna happen. Some will come back together.

 

Faults: In the end it really doesnt matter who is at fault. Pride ,ego, the situation and amount love really dictate the break up and the make up if there is one.

 

It's very possible to break it off with someone you really love more than anything. Logically this doesn't make sense but love isnt a a logical thing. It is such a strong emotion it can kill you inside and make you walk on water, we all know this. So how can any of us sit here and say you need to take a rational look at it.

 

"it's meant to be or not" : such a cop out I think. That's just trying to fool yourself.

 

NC as a fix: Well ok but it only fixes you, not the relationship. I think it should be the last card in the deck that you play. Most of us have feel into the NC as a rule because we tried everything else and use it deep down to "hope" that the ex misses us and comes back.

 

 

Every relationship is different, not all are fixable some are with a great amount of perspective and work and strength. Strength to hear the truth. Strength to be able to admit you need some work yourself.

 

Just some thoughts.

[journeynow]

Well put, 90_hour_sleep, and I agree whole-heartedly.

...there is only one 'fix' as i see it: a sustained sense of peace...which entails the capacity to be present in a state of love (not simply to feel love...but to be love).

[Tired Tiger]

the one point of disagreement might be in the 'blame' category. while you blamed him, i blamed myself. although, fundamentally there is no real difference between those two perspectives. they're both dysfunctional.

 

This is a very important area to explore in terms of the reconciliation process. While it's natural to go through phases of blame/fault, guilt, and resentment, it's critical to process these thoughts constructively. That is, to take the specific reasons these emotions are triggered and learn from them, as opposed to just using them as a vehicle to devalue the ex (which may have it's place, were we not discussing reconciliation). Since these negative emotions are functions of the past relationship, they will serve no positive purpose in a new start. The lessons learned - yes... the negativity - no.

 

Of course, this is all easier said than done. "Letting go with love" requires a lot of mental gymnastics and dodging of emotional land mines, but I believe creates a better foundation for any potential future interaction.

[90_hour_sleep]

This is a very important area to explore in terms of the reconciliation process. While it's natural to go through phases of blame/fault, guilt, and resentment, it's critical to process these thoughts constructively. That is, to take the specific reasons these emotions are triggered and learn from them, as opposed to just using them as a vehicle to devalue the ex (which may have it's place, were we not discussing reconciliation). Since these negative emotions are functions of the past relationship, they will serve no positive purpose in a new start. The lessons learned - yes... the negativity - no.

 

Of course, this is all easier said than done. "Letting go with love" requires a lot of mental gymnastics and dodging of emotional land mines, but I believe creates a better foundation for any potential future interaction.

 

i get the idea of what you're saying, tiger...and the perspective makes sense.

 

what i know...

 

negativity equals pain. this is why surrender is so important. holding onto ANY negativity is to identify with pain. it may temporarily alleviate the heavy emotional burden...but sooner or later it will re-manifest itself as pain.

 

pain...pain...pain.

 

surrender.

 

as far as ''letting go with love''...if you've discovered how to do this...then you're no longer in need of anything. you've found it.

you know the true state of love.

[Tired Tiger]

negativity equals pain. this is why surrender is so important. holding onto ANY negativity is to identify with pain. it may temporarily alleviate the heavy emotional burden...but sooner or later it will re-manifest itself as pain.

 

pain...pain...pain.

 

surrender.

 

Surrender/acceptance/understanding. They won't make pain magically vanish, but *will* take the harsh edge off the negativity that's simply counter productive to healing and/or possible reconciliation. What has been helping me immensely lately is reminding myself that the pain isn't necessarily a direct manifestation of the events of the relationship/break up, per se, but in the phenomenon of 'cognitive dissonance' (and to an extent, 'Cognitive distortion') - which could be an entire thread of it's own.

 

as far as ''letting go with love''...if you've discovered how to do this...then you're no longer in need of anything. you've found it.

you know the true state of love.

 

I'm not sure I've completely discovered how to do this, but it *feels* like the most natural approach for me to take. Anything else seems like a game or trick (to me). I don't know if this is a "true state of love" or not, but perhaps a notch higher in emotional and intellectual awareness? Time will tell, I suppose.

[1MoreChance]

Thanks for this whole thread. It's beautiful.

 

Inside me there is a voice that tells me to "trust" and "let go". To "surrender".

 

I hope I can see through this veil of confusion, fear and anger and find peace.

 

I want the same for me ex. I still have hope for the future and I need to learn to value myself and believe in myself. No matter what happens between him and I, I wish him the same thing.

[journeynow]

I have a voice inside that has been saying "let go" too. I interpreted it just to mean Let him go, but I think you're right 1MoreChance, "surrender" and "trust" seems about right. Surrender to "what is" and trust that it's ok.

Inside me there is a voice that tells me to "trust" and "let go". To "surrender".

[SnowFox]

This thread reminds me a lot of some concepts in Buddhism and meditation. That suffering is caused by attachment...denying reality is a form of attachment - attachment to what we want/hope for/wish for rather than what is. When we accept reality, truly deep down accept it (which doesn't mean liking it), we find relief of our suffering.

 

I like substituting the word acknowledge for accept. I can acknowledge that something has happened, but I don't have to like it, enjoy it, or want it. But I acknowledge that it has happened. And I face the emotions that come from that acknowledgment, I don't fight them off.

[90_hour_sleep]

resistance = attatchment. when you resist, it's because you've become mentally, emotionally, psychologically (substitute any applicable context) attatched to what is (or...perhaps...what isn't).

 

through my own experience, simply accepting the resistance immediately helps to remove it...or at least...be at peace with it. it's kind of a strange truth.

 

haha...that's basically what you said...isn't it, TennesseeGirl. i think we're on the same page.

[SnowFox]

90_hour_sleep - I think there are some spiritual lessons to be found here (in the process of a break up) if one avails themselves of them.

 

I just keep coming back to the reality that I do not know if my ex (?) will want to resume our relationship. I have to keep accepting that reality over and over and over again. I have to step into that feeling of total powerlessness and just be with it. To do anything else is to fight it and to suffer. Its like falling off a ledge and feeling that fear and anxiety, over and over and over. All the other feelings are just fighting against that primal fear of being left.

 

So, I am feeling that this is an extension of my spiritual practice (I've been meditating and studying Buddhism for years). I am choosing to use this experience (break up) as spiritual practice.

 

Something that came to my mind today while driving is the phrase "all relationships end" - and that is the absolute truth. There is no relationship with another human being that lasts forever - they end either through the other person leaving, us leaving, the other person dying, or us dying.

 

That sounds morbid, but its not really. Its another "truth" - if you allow yourself to just deeply, deeply accept it, you realize that it helps you move past your fear. All relationships end. There is no permanence in any relationship or any aspect of our life. Everything is constantly in flux and if we try to stay attached to permanence, we just bring more suffering on ourselves. We cling to permanence because we think it brings us security and safety. But permanence is an illusion- its a mental process that leads us to suffering. (this is all Buddhist stuff).

[journeynow]

I agree, Tennessee. Acknowledging that helps. (Sometimes two in a relationship die at the same time, but it is more likely to not happen that way.) Love doesn't end, and that is ok. That's the truth for me, anyway, and I find comfort in that. I accept that love is love, and doesn't have to be attached to any outcome or form or behavior or heartbreak. What matters to me is that I love, I experience love within my self.

 

There is no relationship with another human being that lasts forever - they end either through the other person leaving, us leaving, the other person dying, or us dying.

[90_hour_sleep]

thanks for the post TennesseeGirl.

 

i'm coming to see my own situation as a spiritual practice as well. it started with the question: ''are you fed up with suffering?" hmm. i'll admit the answer didn't come right away...but it did come.

 

the more i look into it, the more i've come to know that the only true escape from suffering is to surrender to it...to disidentify with the automatic and rather compulsive thoughts that are ultimately feeding the pain. i only know this because it's happened for me. it's by no means sustainable at this point...but the temporary relief of having no thought for a short period of time is undescribable. in my own readings...it's been called 'stillness'. i can imagine that i'd be quite severely depressed if i hadn't realized this state. i know the feelings of anxiety all too well. they're very much cyclical...so there is an abundance of opportunity to surrender to the thoughts. practice

 

i remember being drawn to buddhism a few years back. although, i never took it all that seriously. it was one thing to read and 'believe', but quite another thing to 'know' and practice. i suppose 'buddhism' is only one term.

really, the other religions state the same things essentially. unfortunately, most of them have become overleaden with so much extraneous propaganda that it's difficult to find the true context of the message.

 

i've actually been reading a bit about the idea of death. by realizing that all things die, you can release yourself from that identification with form (permanence and attatchment). it's almost a form of meditation in itself...contemplating the idea of death. you come to realize that the external things that we attatch ourselves to really aren't all that important. the only true sense of life is within us. nothing in the outside world can ever ultimately add to or take away from that life. sure, there is enjoyment to be had with the outer world...but there is no sense of need (salvation) or of loss (if something is taken or removed). it's referred to as ''death before dying''. another buddhist practice i believe.

 

if you don't mind my asking...do you have any specific forms of meditation that you've found useful for yourself?

[90_hour_sleep]

I agree, Tennessee. Acknowledging that helps. (Sometimes two in a relationship die at the same time, but it is more likely to not happen that way.) Love doesn't end, and that is ok. That's the truth for me, anyway, and I find comfort in that. I accept that love is love, and doesn't have to be attached to any outcome or form or behavior or heartbreak. What matters to me is that I love, I experience love within my self.

 

that's an amazing thing to have realized.

 

i used to be so confused about 'love'. that is...love as the emotion. it seemed that every person i encountered had a different perspective on love.

each had his/her own expectations of what love should be. i used to wonder: how could such a universal experience be the cause of so much conflict? well...that seems fairly obvious now. it was never true love that was being put to the test (*in the spiritual sense of something that's an inherent part of our natural true self). i think there are possibly very few people who draw the distinction. but really, that makes sense. the idea of emotional love is engrained in each and every one of us. it's the social norm...nurtured from a very young age. how do you disidentify from that which you have always held as ultimate truth?

[SnowFox]

90_hours_sleep - it sounds like you have tapped into some of the deep truths in the process of dealing with your break-up ..... which although painful, is actually really cool, because now that you've tapped into those, you will always have them to draw from as you go on through life.

 

If you are drawn to this type of experience/way of looking at things, you may want to check out books by the author Pema Chodron. She has a number of books that are really great. Also Jack Kornfield and Joseph Goldstein. They all have a bunch of great books.

 

The thing about Buddhism is that it is not a religion. The Buddha told people, "don't just accept these ideas because I told you that they are true- go out and experience them for yourselves and determine if they are true."

 

Meditation practice is one way for people to get in touch with these deeper truths like impermanence and non-attachment. Meditation is like exercise for the mind to help the mind calm down and not be so reactive to the thoughts and emotions that we experience all day every day. There is nothing wrong with either thoughts or emotions or sensations in our bodies....but until we learn skillful ways to respond to them, we will be experience more suffering than is necessary.

 

There is a free on-line meditation class that is really good - its taught by a teacher in the Vipassana tradition of Buddhism (there are three major schools of Buddhism- Tibetan, Theravada, and Zen). The vipassana tradition is from the Theravada school, which is also called Insight Meditation in the US.

 

Each school has its own flavor and variations, but the core teachings are the same. I personally felt like the vipassana or insight meditation approach suited me best, but that is just my own personal feeling. Others are drawn to Tibetan or Zen for different reasons.

 

Anyway, here is a link to the free class:

 

link removed

 

you will see on the upper left side, there is a section called Introduction to Meditation.

 

Then, there are also many other talks on various Buddhist topics that you can listen to as well.

 

You are correct that contemplation of death is a way for us to get focused on the impermanence in life and get clear about what really matters. There is a series of talks on that page further down called "Embracing Death as a Spiritual Practice" - I haven't listened to it, but now that we're talking about it, maybe I will.

 

I know there is a Buddhist meditation practice that involves visualizing yourself on your death bed, at the end of your life. You sit quietly and really focus on that image and try to imagine yourself in that situation. Then, from your imagined death bed, you look back over your life and pay attention to what were the important things in your life, what were your regrets, etc. The exercise really helps you get in touch with what matters to you the most and then, since you are still alive, you have a chance to spend your time on the things that matter most.

 

anyway, hope some of that is helpful!

[journeynow]

It's probably easier NOT living with a SO, lol. My take on it now, is that romantic love, and other types of love, help to wake us up to our connection to love. It's a trigger, a reminder, a catalyst. It's real, but we tend to misinterpret it, or misidentify it. We tend to an ego-oriented interpretation and see the thing that triggered our love experience as giving us value and we become attached to that thing, or that person, or the form of the relationship. I think the love is real, but does not need to be attached to any particular form.

[HighRoad]

Very nice thread, very nice. I have taken a quote from 1morechance into my signature.

 

I also like "resistance = attachment."

 

Lots of good things to think about, and I agree with alot of what has been said. Awesome!

[90_hour_sleep]

It's probably easier NOT living with a SO, lol. My take on it now, is that romantic love, and other types of love, help to wake us up to our connection to love. It's a trigger, a reminder, a catalyst. It's real, but we tend to misinterpret it, or misidentify it. We tend to an ego-oriented interpretation and see the thing that triggered our love experience as giving us value and we become attached to that thing, or that person, or the form of the relationship. I think the love is real, but does not need to be attached to any particular form.

 

i think you kind of get what i'm saying...and i think i kind of get what you're saying. perhaps?

 

i think really...that there is only one true form of love. the other ideas of love are not really love at all. they are illusions. love is used as an inaccurate substitute for what's actually being felt. i think in many ways it's an attempt to convince yourself that you know what love is.

it's described as the most ultimately human experience...and i think the idea of perhaps not truly knowing what it is, is absolutely terrifying. so, instead of giving into the fear...we convince ourselves that we do in fact know.

 

i do know that what is often described in these threads is not the true form of love. i think most people have had glimpses of this, but generally speaking it is not a state that is maintained. i speak for myself as well. i spent much time convincing myself that i knew love...perhaps to justify my experiences with other people. the true form of love is not a feeling. it cannot be created or destroyed in the external world. it doesn't change, or evolve, or simply disappear. when you know this form of love, you realize that it's always there. at times it may be obscured...but it is still there. think of it like the sun on an overcast day. you can't see it, but it's still there.

you also realize that your relationships with other people (whether intimate or otherwise) do not end because there is no love. they end mainly because love has been obscured by thought. really...the idea of a relationship ''ending'' is just a thought. all relationships end eventually; however,when you know true love, it becomes possible to leave someone in love, or have them leave you in love. the pain and suffering caused by loss are not as a result of love. any kind of conflict cannot arise in the true state of love.

 

i think love is often confused with intense pleasure. pleasure ends...and is often replaced by less desirable feelings.

 

love cannot be found or achieved...because it is already within each one of us.

[journeynow]

...love is not a feeling. it cannot be created or destroyed in the external world. it doesn't change, or evolve, or simply disappear. when you know this form of love, you realize that it's always there. at times it may be obscured...but it is still there. think of it like the sun on an overcast day. you can't see it, but it's still there.

 

you also realize that your relationships with other people (whether intimate or otherwise) do not end because there is no love. they end mainly because love has been obscured by thought. really...the idea of a relationship ''ending'' is just a thought. all relationships end eventually; however,when you know true love, it becomes possible to leave someone in love, or have them leave you in love. the pain and suffering caused by loss are not as a result of love.

 

I agree with this. Letting thoughts obscure love, we do that in all kinds of ways.

[1MoreChance]

I have a voice inside that has been saying "let go" too. I interpreted it just to mean Let him go, but I think you're right 1MoreChance, "surrender" and "trust" seems about right. Surrender to "what is" and trust that it's ok.

 

 

yes, that's what I meant. not let HIM go, but be open to whatever greater truth is there. Acceptance toward my experience, instead of resistance. I let my mind come up with all kinds of "truths", which are fear based. This will happen, because of this, that will happen because of that. he feels this way because of this or that. in reality, i am probably at least as much right as I am wrong in my analysis. he has a whole experience which is unique and different from mine and the truth seems to be more complex than "he no longer loves me" (which hurts so much). I am scared, nonetheless. Ultimatelly not so much that he won't come back, but that I will not acheieve greater inner peace and openness, greater self love and love toward life at large (there is a lot more to life, this earth's reality and the universe than my experience, so why should I stay centered on this experience? Am I that scared, and closed, and insecure?).

 

This thread IS about "they can come back if you get your act together", let's remember, so I'll venture that he may come back and that yes, I DO hope so, and does that mean that I am closed to the greater meaning of life and just too scared and insecure to accept it's over?

 

I think there are many lessons for me in this experience of loss, and I hope I am a good student...

 

ETA

 

just wanted to edit to say that I saw him a week ago (we agreed to spend the afternoon together after he cut my hair (he's a stylist)) and we went to dinner and shared still much emotion and tender thoughts. So I am not basing my whole on nothingness. And I refuse to think he is just playing me or being otherwise selffish or immature (the whole blame thing). I do want to trust him and myslef. He did ,make it clear he doesn't want a relationhsip now and that he is scared of them. (he is 23 BTW, which some judge me for, again, I can refuse to let that judgement affect me).

[90_hour_sleep]

those are really beautiful insights.

[1MoreChance]

those are really beautiful insights.

 

 

Thank you. I do realize this and my last relationship and its break up helped me to.

 

I think one of the things that brings me the greatest pain is a feeling of being worthless. I think that I would be dealing with the break up differently at this point if I felt that I was a worthy human. This relationship and the break up has so much to teach me about how I need to heal myself. I just don,t know if I'll ever get there.

 

Like today, I went to the a beautiful park with my dog, and mp3. I sat by the pond and listened to my music. Some pain, some peace, some inspiration. Then, as it was getting nearer to going back home, this intense feleing of loneliness, hopelessness, impending doom, all these doubts, came rushing at me. I started feleing so overwhelmed, like he would never come back and I was just so worthless to him. I started thinking how a couple friends who are leaving on trips said they'd call me before this left and didn't call me. I thought about another friend whom I need to call back, and another friend whom I haven't talked to in about 6 weeks and neither of us is calling (discomfort on my oart and on hers too I think). I thought about my family I bearly see. My father I have basically rejected because of how abusive he was when I was a child. I felt SO ALONE. I felt so WORTHLESS and I felt I couldn't go on. I thought why would my ex want to come back? he is far better without me and will do much better in life than me and without me. etc etc

 

Thos gives you the picture of how I feel half the time. Honnestly, I am not at peace. I am a hypocrite. I talk about ineer peace and letting go, but I hate myself.

 

It's just so painful.

[90_hour_sleep]

it's been said that inner peace is not something that you can seek. the act of seeking in itself suggests that you are projecting away from the present moment. inner peace is not something that you need to find...it's something that you need to remember. it's already within you. it's within you right now, however obscured it might be by your current life situation.

 

i can share some of your sentiments...feelings of hopelessness...impending doom...etc. i used to have these anxiety attacks...very intense sense of dread. initially, they lasted for hours at a time...usually at night while i was lying in bed (this was long before my most recent breakup). the last one i had was several months ago, and it only lasted ten or fifteen seconds. i attribute that to a newfound awareness.

 

what causes anxiety? for me it's the compulsive tendency of my thoughts to wander into the future (usually a future that i project as worse than my current situation). the simple act of recognizing those thoughts as thoughts has helped me tremendously. what i'm getting at is...try not to take your thoughts so seriously. they're not who you are. they're not ultimate truth. when you feel overwhelmed, pause...and direct your attention inward. observe the thoughts. you are NOT your thoughts. you are the observer.

 

the other thing that's helped me has been (and still is) to surrender to whatever i feel and think. it doesn't matter what it is. so, i'm incredibly anxious...i feel nauseous. am i okay with that? no...not really...but that's what is right now. sure...it's unpleasant...but by acknowledging that it's there, that it IS unpleasant, there's an immediate sense of relief. i'll admit, this isn't easy (it wasn't for me at least). there is a certain amount of practice involved. whenever you feel anything, try to focus on the feeling. how does your body feel? the more able you are to really focus on that feeling, the less likely you are to associate what you feel with some kind of thought. it's the thought that feeds what you feel. by being intensely present with your feeling, you cut your mind off from the food it needs to fuel the pain. it's a difficult thing to explain. i can only suggest that you try it out.

 

i'm with you in the peace department. i talk about it alot...but it's not something that i've managed to sustain for long periods of time. i have experienced it though. sometimes it only lasts for a few seconds. other times, i know it for a day or two at a time. sometimes the way to peace is to accept that you're not there.

[1MoreChance]

your post is being tremendously helpful in helping me find hope that I can cope.

 

thanks and I will try it. for some reason I do not like being in my body. I tend to cut myself off and stay in my thoughts. I get very VERY afraid of my thoughts and think they are reality. exactly what you described: I worry about the future and totally catastrophise. Then the anxiety takes over my body and I fail to breathe properly, I stay in my mind and try to control everything by finding some new thoughts that will explain everything and make everything ok. It's very exhausting.

 

I have been wanting to go to a bouddhist center that follows the Thich Nhat Hanh tradition close to my house. but I am master of procrastination and self-sabotage. I tend to put things off. Even having a dog is no excuse. Sure during the week I rush home to my girl cause she spends up to 10 hours a day alone, but nothing stops me from taking a class or two oin the weekend. and nothing stops me from practicing meditation at home, or even wlaking meditation with my dog. Except myself.

 

thnks, I feel a connection to you, like you are really helping find roads to my healing.

[90_hour_sleep]

well, i'm glad to be able to help. we each have our own small pieces of wisdom to offer.

 

i've felt the same disconnection with my body at times. prior to my most recent breakup, i don't think i'd ever fully experienced the feelings in my body.

i can't even describe what it's done for me. the act of feeling without thought is extremely liberating. it's no longer about feeling emotion, it's really just about feeling what your body is telling you.

 

it's really this one idea that would lead me to suggest "Eckhart Tolle" to you.

there's something about how he says things. i know my own words dont' convey the same message. he has a way of pointing you towards the truths within yourself. i know for myself that the words haven't been all that important. it's what the words point to. it's beautiful.

 

 

[1MoreChance]

I will definitelly look into Eckhart Tolle. It sounds like I would enjoy it a lot.

 

I also got a Harville Hendrix book from the library.

 

thank you