Back Together!!! (hopefully)

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Majord23 makes some excellent points. You keep making excuses for her and glossing over this new relationship. If it is even true that they have never had sex because HE doesn't want, then perhaps she just used you because she is missing sex. This just makes the whole thing all the more repulsive...she doesn't break up with the guy, needs some sex and so she turns on the charm with you. If she is indeed trying to make you "work for it" because you had originally dumped her then this is not a very flattering picture of her...that she would cheat on the current guy she is seeing. This woman is sleazy.

[faithful14]

i think that Majord and CAB have very good points here. I don't know your ex very well, but the fact that you said you're worried about her "manipulating" you kind of worries me. Getting back together (at least to me) isn't about manipulation, lies, and secrecy. It should be a moment of happiness where two people reconcile but are also looking ahead to fixing their issues and moving forward together. She knows you have bad feelings about this, well why can't she just dump him now and let him go?

 

i know it seems like were bringing you down with all these questions and statements, but were just looking out for you because it's not cool to mess with someone's emotions like that. No one wants to see you getting hurt. We are just giving your advice- which is here for you to take or not to take. In the end, the choice is yours. but give us updates as to what's happening

[Grant218]

Oh no, by all means I want the truth. That's why I'm here, posting...being honest about how I feel and what I think because I know how much different everything is when seen from an objective point of view. And the hard reality is everyone is just confirming my own suspicions. I know it looks bad, I know her past...but the heart is a difficult thing to change.

 

That being said, is it worth putting my foot down and if it pushes her away then she doesn't want it bad enough? or she not worth it at all?

 

Thanks again everyone. Your advice means so much!

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Oh no, by all means I want the truth. That's why I'm here, posting...being honest about how I feel and what I think because I know how much different everything is when seen from an objective point of view. And the hard reality is everyone is just confirming my own suspicions. I know it looks bad, I know her past...but the heart is a difficult thing to change.

 

That being said, is it worth putting my foot down and if it pushes her away then she doesn't want it bad enough? or she not worth it at all?

 

Thanks again everyone. Your advice means so much!

 

Given that she cheated without batting an eyelash I would say that she is not worth it at all.

[brazilgirl21]

I was in the SAME exact situation as Grant, albeit I was the dumper and in my ex's mind I only wanted him back because he now had a girlfriend.

 

I'm not defending my ex or cheaters, but it is not as black and white. My ex was a perfect boyfriend to me for almost 3 years. He was in love with me, I broke things off with him, he found someone else a few months after. When I finally came back, like he said, it had been all he wanted, for me to come back. For months, like us here at ENA, he wished I would come back.

 

Can you really not forgive the guy for cheating on his rebound girlfriend with the person he had been waiting to come back for months? I'm not saying he was a saint, he was definetly a cheater, but at the same time, I do understand his motivations.

 

He told me he would dump her but he did not, for 1 month. He lied and two timed us both. He FINALLY decided to dump her when he thought I was slipping, and when we got back, he was fully commited to me and did not speak to her. However, in New Years he ended up kissing the girl ( I was out of the country ), I found out, but we still weren't official so he doesn't consider it cheating. We broke up for good and he is back with his rebound and seems happy. I'm out of the picture and he's not cheating on her anymore or having any contact with me.

 

What hurts me is the emotional lies. "I love you, I'm NOT going back to her, you are the only woman I've ever loved"... and then, he's back together in a full realtionship with her?

 

I mean, be careful man, when there's a third party involved, even if it's a CLEAR rebound, things can get ugly for you.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

There is a very BIG difference between being confused about the emotions and actually making a conscious decision to make out, get naked and have sex with someone who is not your partner. There is NO EXCUSE for translating emotional confusion into physical cheating, lying, betraying, and carrying on a double life stringing two people along, the legitimate partner having absolutely NO IDEA that they are being betrayed. The motivation is selfishness and ego boost and shows lack of character.

[brazilgirl21]

Thank you! It makes it a little easier to take my ex off the pedestal.

 

BTW - He kissed me, I didn't have sex with him UNTIL he broke up with his gf "for the weekend". Then he got back together with her and didn't tell me about it. 1 month later I found out, he freaked out that I might be gone for good, and he gave me the "I'm sorry I tried to make things work with her first, it was just easier because with her I didn't really care if I lost her... but I can't lose you...I cannot let you go".

 

So he was FINALLY a man and dumped her. Well, we all know how that story ended. He went back to her. I wonder how this girl still took him back?

 

I know he was VERY VERY VERY confused and it hurt him to do these things though. Which is why I can't really hate him. Also, I broke up and hurt his feelings first, so I brought all this and his insecurities to him myself.

 

We are currently in NC now. It's been almost two months that he's with her and we haven't spoken at all. Well, I texted him once about ignoring me at a party (I ignored him too), but that was basically it. Things still seem pretty unresolved, I don't feel like I got closure, even though he clearly made his choice and seem happy with his new GF.

 

Can I really see their story as a love story though? I mean, he cheated on her for TWO full months. There's a tiny part of me who believes that if I asked him to meet up with him today, he might even cheat on her again. He avoids any contact with me because we have this chemistry thing that I know if we see eachother... it's just not good.

 

I don't believe he loves me either though, because in all honesty, he would be with me today if he loved me.

 

I guess I just don't understand man.

[Grant218]

Alright, I totally agree. BTW, brazilgirl, i was the dumper too so we are in a similar situation.

 

The question I keep asking myself is, "Does my love for her justify putting up with her ugly side?" I found out very early in our relationship that she has alot of emotional problems and issues from her past and I tried to be the supportive boyfriend and be patient with her and help her the best way I knew how. But the problem is that I felt more like her therapist than a boyfriend. Sure, we still had a typically relationship as far as dating and having fun but I never knew which days she would be OK and which days she would be a wreck. That's what really pushed us away and why I eventually broke up with her. I would see friends or coworkers out with their significant other and I'd notice how much more outgoing and fun they were together. That's what began a cycle of me feeling like there had to be something better out there which made me start to become apathetic and cold towards her, which in turn made her even worse. It was that cycle that lead to us breaking up.

 

In fact, I had gotten upset one day and decided enough is enough, we're breaking up. So I told her how I felt without being mean or hostile and she immediately runs to the bathroom and starts opening pill bottles why I'm pleading her to come out and talk, thinking she's going to kill herself and I'm going to have that guilt on my conscience for the rest of my life. She eventually comes out and from what I gather didn't actually take anything but simply wanted to make a scene and get what she wanted. That's why I say she is an expert at crying wolf to get what she wants and my fear is, with her already being unstable, one day it's going to be for real.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Yep, she is a drama queen...her totally messed up behaviour right now with stringing two men along, cheating, lying and deceiving is just more of the same messed up behaviour you experienced during the relationship and at the point of break up. Rather than focusing on getting this "twisted sister" back, why not focus on why you would even want her back after all of the crap she has put you through. Do you think you could ever have a stable relationship with her? I doubt it...she has too many problems and is not interested in fixing them.

[brazilgirl21]

Oh I agree. The whole "pill popping" thing. She's messed up. I think people like that deserve to be loved too, but she needs to help herself first.

 

My ex is very stable and didn't pull any emotional drama on me. I dumped him because I was stupid and thought the grass was greener. I still love him and want him back because of what our relationship was and the stable person he is. That's why I forgive his cheating. He didn't cheat on me and I know I did kind of screw with his head by chasing him only when he had moved on.

[Grant218]

Do you think you could ever have a stable relationship with her?

 

I don't know about a completely stable relationship, not for a little while at least. But aside from genuinely loving her and knowing she does have a good side to her (albeit sporatic), I really want to help her because I know she doesn't have a supportive family and I feel that because I know her better than anyone else I see things that most people wouldn't. She trusts me and if we get back together I suggested that we go to couples therapy so that she can vent any abandonment fears from me leaving her and I can start to speak honestly about some of her issues that pushed me away in the past, and have the ability to do it in a controlled environment.

 

I talked to my ex today and told her that I just want her to take as much time to think about what she wants as she needs, and in the meantime it's best if we don't hang out anymore. She was a little upset and said, "I understand how you feel but it's not cheating if we just hang out and talk. Besides, I'm going to break up with him..." I told her that's absolutely untrue and I would be hurt if I was in his (her BF's) place. I couldn't sleep last night thinking about our situation so I made a list of all the things that are bothering me about this so I would have it with me when I spoke to her.

 

So right now I'm going back to LC and letting her take the time she needs to make sure she's not rushing in to breaking it off with mr. rebound. I know most people here think she's not worth the trouble and are legitimately looking out for me but I just want to give it one more chance to know for sure that she is or isn't the one. If not, I can move on with no regrets that it failed because of anything on my part.

[justletgo07]

Smart move. Be sure to stick to it!

 

"I don't know about a completely stable relationship, not for a little while at least. But aside from genuinely loving her and knowing she does have a good side to her (albeit sporatic), I really want to help her because I know she doesn't have a supportive family and I feel that because I know her better than anyone else I see things that most people wouldn't. She trusts me and if we get back together I suggested that we go to couples therapy so that she can vent any abandonment fears from me leaving her and I can start to speak honestly about some of her issues that pushed me away in the past, and have the ability to do it in a controlled environment."

 

I would be cautious about this line of thinking. It is normal to think that people will appreciate you and love you for trying to be there for them like this, but oftentimes appreciation is the opposite of what you actually get in return. You can't "save her" and you have to make sure you're not in love with the IDEA of what could be if she changed. You have to want to be with her, flaws and all, even if her insecurities and issues never, ever change.

 

You're going to get stuck in a one-sided relationship again if you take the attitude that you want to essentially hold her up. If you do that, she'll never change. It will just reinforce her negative behavior.

 

All of this is very counter-intuitive, but mostly true I believe. People don't change when they are taken care of. People change when their forced to face the consequences of their actions and behavior.

[majord23]

Grant, I want you to do me (and yourself) a favour and read the book "No More Mr Nice Guy".

[majord23]

Double post....maybe my sub-conscious wanted to tell you to read the book twice

[Grant218]

Grant, I want you to do me (and yourself) a favour and read the book "No More Mr Nice Guy".

 

Haha, Thanks. I'll give it a look.

 

Smart move. Be sure to stick to it!

 

You're going to get stuck in a one-sided relationship again if you take the attitude that you want to essentially hold her up. If you do that, she'll never change. It will just reinforce her negative behavior.

 

All of this is very counter-intuitive, but mostly true I believe. People don't change when they are taken care of. People change when their forced to face the consequences of their actions and behavior.

 

That's precisely why I don't intend on simply holding her up. That's what I did the entire time we were together and what I now realize contributed to us breaking up. Part of my problem when we were together is that I was way too easy-going and avoided confrontations at all costs with her to the point that, for the most part, I just let her negative qualities continue without simply sitting down and discussing our differences. Instead, I just started looking for someone else who would be "easier" in the sense that they wouldn't have the emotional baggage.

 

My goal is not to "change" or "fix" her, but to WORK with her and to be more open and communicate our differences instead of sweeping them under the rug. She does have alot of negative qualities, but I'm not perfect either. I feel that if I just focus on the negative I may miss out on something worthwhile. As the saying goes "nothing in life worth having comes easy."

 

Am I looking at this from a skewed perspective?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Oh I agree. The whole "pill popping" thing. She's messed up. I think people like that deserve to be loved too, but she needs to help herself first.

 

My ex is very stable and didn't pull any emotional drama on me. I dumped him because I was stupid and thought the grass was greener. I still love him and want him back because of what our relationship was and the stable person he is. That's why I forgive his cheating. He didn't cheat on me and I know I did kind of screw with his head by chasing him only when he had moved on.

 

After reading what you wrote about him and his back and forth, cheating behaviour, lies and deception, I don't think he is actually that stable. People who are stable don't do such things..and it is NOT your fault that he behaved like that...HE is responsible for his own actions. Plenty of people get dumped and the dumper comes back and yet they don't pull stunts like your ex did..they keep a level head AND their integrity.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Yes, you are looking at it from a skewed perspective...you are acting like a martyr...willing to put up with all her crap because you hope that over time, your patience and support will make her see the light. NOPE, won't happen, your patience and support will maintain your status as her doormat like she is continually trying to do right now. Listen to her words...she has absolutely no conscience over her actions...no guilt, no remorse, no sense that she did anything wrong by having sex with you when she hasn't broken up with her current boyfriend. She has no morals and no integrity...you can't save a woman like that....you can't talk sense to a woman like that...you can't reason with a woman like that.

[Grant218]

Yes, you are looking at it from a skewed perspective...you are acting like a martyr...willing to put up with all her crap because you hope that over time, your patience and support will make her see the light. NOPE, won't happen, your patience and support will maintain your status as her doormat like she is continually trying to do right now. Listen to her words...she has absolutely no conscience over her actions...no guilt, no remorse, no sense that she did anything wrong by having sex with you when she hasn't broken up with her current boyfriend. She has no morals and no integrity...you can't save a woman like that....you can't talk sense to a woman like that...you can't reason with a woman like that.

 

I sincerely believe you are trying to help but you come accross as incredibly pessimistic. Although I do agree with you on many points I think there is at least a glimmer of hope in all of this. I don't expect her to do a complete 180 overnight but no relationship is perfect. I could've done alot of things differently to prevent ending up at this point. But the fact is (most of us) learn from our mistakes and, yes, it will take work but I can't simply walk away when I'm this close to reconciling. I may not see the big picture in all of this but I am certainly wiser than I was a few weeks ago. I know better than to open myself completely to her given her past and the current red flags. So, I think it's at least worth a shot and like I've said before, if it doesn't work out it's her loss, not mine.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Many people before you have tried and failed to turn dung into flowers. Am I pessimistic about this relationship...absolutely...because I have seen and read enough about the same scenario, different players to know that this usually doesn't end happily for the person who keeps thinking that time will change everything. Lots of people waste years of their life hoping for the change that never happens. You are seeing her for as you hope she will be, not as she really is. Proceed at your own risk.

[brazilgirl21]

I agree about us at ENA being VERY pessimistic. I mean yes, my ex lied and was very deceitful, but at the same time, I was calling him weekly, sending love e-mails and you know, he had been waiting for me to come back and then all of a sudden I drop on him like a ticking bomb...

 

I agree about the "integrity" though... but people cheat. He was with her for 2 months. He is 22. He is a boy, he's learning. Can we really expect THAT much from our exes and from people in general?

 

Are we just too in love to forgive people and blame ourselves? Or are us, ENAERS to hard on people?

[Grant218]

 

Are we just too in love to forgive people and blame ourselves? Or are us, ENAERS to hard on people?

 

I think the intent to help is there, which is all we can ask for, but I feel like after you break up with someone or someone breaks up with you there are two choices...try to reconcile or move on. If the choice is to move on then certainly there needs to be a fair amount of "tough love" to convince the person that there is light at the end of the tunnel and they're better off without their ex. But if the choice is to reconcile AND there is a chance, why not take it, learn from our mistakes, and try to make the best of the situation. Too many people have been scarred from relationships ending badly and in their experience the best option is to move on. But I don't believe that's for everyone.

[brazilgirl21]

Well, I agree, in my case, I tried to get back together at ALL costs and maybe if I had come here and had the tough love before, I wouldn't be in the pain and emotional instability I am now. I guess there's two sides to the coin. As with everything.

[The_411]

Grant,

 

This will end badly for you, and, no, this has nothing to do with being pessimistic.

 

Just as Majord suggested No more Mr. Nice guy I would recommend the book "People of the Lie" by Scott Peck

 

Everyone says but my situation is different. Maybe, but many areas of life are predicated on patterns.

 

Your situation is a pattern that has been repeated time after time. It will continue to be repeated because people don't learn until it happens to them and they have to go through a tortuous ordeal to realize the effect of trying to reconcile.

 

Now to your "relationshp"

 

I will reiterate this until I'm blue in the face but never believe what a woman says unless her actions are congruent with her words.

 

In your case your ex is making empty promises and strings you along and even uses sex to manipulate you into believing there is a future with her.

 

Notice how she's putting off breaking up with her rebound. Even if she said I'll do it tomorrow I wouldn't believe her. Hell I'd have trouble believing her even if she said she broke up with him.

 

If a woman cheats with you she will cheat on you.

 

Your ex has huge red flags. Bad childhood, cheating, my guess is that she had a personality disorder.

 

Believe me from experience this is not something you want to salvage. In fact this can destroy you and leave you broken for a long time.

 

You are falling into a trap by making her #1 a woman should never be a #1 priority for man that's why you see so many guys here.

 

That doesn't mean treat a woman like crap what it means is that you are #! take care of what you need to do to reach your goals.

 

A strong relationship is built on independence by both parties. When a guy makes his girlfriend his focus he will always lose whether that means getting dumped or cheated on etc.

 

Reconciling is an admirable goal but you have to recognize when it is a worthwhile endeavor.

 

From an unbiased point of view this looks like someone who is not worth pursuing because in the long run she will bring a lot of heartache.

[brazilgirl21]

I agree, I mean the pill popping story really freaked me out. It's tough to love someone with a personality disorder. It's tough. I mean, like I said, they deserve love too, but maybe it's for the best you move away. They get destructive. My mom had some of those traits and I know how hard it was for my dad.

 

I think it's admirable that you want to stick with her, I mean, I would run away, but at the same time, is it really worth the pain?? Maybe she needs to figure her emotional problems alone? Maybe by "giving in" to her you are just feeding her "disorder". You are letting her know that she's fine, that she can keep manipulating you, cheating, popping pills... you are not going to do any of you good.

[Grant218]

You're right. I know that everyone who is trying to warn me about this is right. Hell, I even recognize the signs myself. I think the problem lies with my own insecurities. I think that deep down I'm afraid of having to start over, and even though I know it would be better in the long run, I don't think I have the confidence to get back out there and try. If I would read my own story coming from someone else I would say the same thing as everyone else. The problem is that I'm actually there and it's so hard right now to face the facts. I admit that when I was in NC and beginning to accecpt the fact that she was with someone else I was slowly feeling better. But when she gave me hope that we could be together again I lost it and now I'm back to square one again. Seeing her as this wonderful person and ignoring every hint of reason. I just don't know what to do anymore. I'd love to just tell her how I feel and move on but right now I care to much about hurting her feelings. It's pathetic that I even care what she thinks but I can't help it. I just feel trapped....