Relationship With X

[Juliette ne pas]

Thanks Lost I am trying to stay on the high ground, I will try to start a new thread, thanks

[lostandhurt]

Hello all:

 

I have some good news. Since I have had my son with me to help turn his grades around he has made a remarkable improvement. In less than 2 weeks he went from an F to a C+ in one class and has moved up a grade point in almost all the others. I am very proud of him.

How one parent can think it isn't their job to be involved in their childs education is beyond me.

 

I was writing my child support check out last night and my son said "I find it strange that you pay her for child support when you are the one doing all the supporting" I just told him the irony hasn't been missed by me and others but I will always take care of my responsibilities regardless of the circumstances.

 

I hope since spring has sprung and summer is close that we all have some good news in our lives.

 

Lost

[waffle]

Court officials strongly cautioned us not to engage our kids in any child support discussions or related money matters, since that is an adult issue between two parents.

 

I strongly agree with that. My kids know, for example, that xH is unemployed, but they don't know that he no longer pays child support because of it. The Friend of the Court office has heard plenty from me though, trust me.

[lostandhurt]

At 14 years old there isn't much that gets past my son. I won't insult him by hiding things from him. He is well aware of the situation and if he asks a question I answer with an age appropriate answer.

 

This is all part of his life too and he makes up his own mind and isn't shy about speaking it when he feels he needs to.

 

Lost

[waffle]

When you make a big production of writing a check in front of a kid, of course he's going to know.

 

Not to be contrary, but I think it's terribly inappropriate to put yourself on a pedestal and be all "look at me and how wonderful I am" and play the martyr when paying child support because of course that will affect the kid. That said, I did have to include my kids in a couple of financial decisions while married because when xH drained the bank accounts and put it all in his name (I still think he had caught wind of me interviewing divorce lawyers), I had no access at all to the marital funds/assets and no way to pay for extracurriculars that had payments due mere days after he took all the money. So when I asked him for the money to pay for gymnastics for my daughter, he sat there with that smug look on his face when he said no. I had no choice but to tell my daughter I was going to have to pull her out of gymnastics, I mean what else could I do? I didn't even have money to feed them until my next paycheck came! I still remember digging change out of any place I could find it and then practically having a nervous breakdown at the store when I was about 30 cents short for some tuna helper for dinner that evening, and then xH came home from work with takeout (or maybe this was a different evening, I'm not quite sure--it was a daily pattern for a while) and he sat there in front of the kids smacking his lips while he ate it. My youngest came to me and said she had asked dad if she could have some too and he said no, and she knew I had no money until I got paid, so she wondered if she could use some of her own money to buy herself something to eat, could I take her somewhere to buy it? Even then I refrained from discussing their abusive, deadbeat dad with them because there was nothing to say, they saw it with their own eyes--they didn't need me projecting my opinion. Anyway, back to the gymnastics . . . my gymnast knew she had to withdraw for financial reasons because their dad wouldn't allow his money to be spent on anyone but himself--fortunately the gymnastics instructor understood and let her continue anyway, and I ran a deficit until I could get on my feet by opening my own bank account and deposit my paycheck in that, and then could slowly make up the amount I was behind (in the divorce settlement, xH was court-ordered to pay half the amount in arrears for extracurriculars, which he amazingly did) and feed my kids. Yeah I'm still bitter that xH chose to punish his kids simply because their mom wanted a divorce, and I could badmouth him til the ends of the earth and it would all be true, but I talk about all of that HERE . . . I would never project it on the kids.

[Jeffbobo]

When you make a big production of writing a check in front of a kid, of course he's going to know./QUOTE]

 

Schwat? Who is doing this? I think lost is merely stating that when his son asks him a question on the subject, he lets him know in an age appropriate manner. I do the same thing when asked. My kids have no illusions.

 

Not to be contrary, but I think it's terribly inappropriate to put yourself on a pedestal and be all "look at me and how wonderful I am" and play the martyr when paying child support because of course that will affect the kid.

 

Double schwat?!? The money doesn't grow on trees and the world isn't all rainbows and run on unicorn farts. Geez... It's frick'n commendable that he pays his child support, goes above and beyond, puts his son first and doesn't b**tch about any of it. There are many deadbeat dads who do not and woman who don't see a dime of support. *You* can attest to that and hell, I've dated them and heard the crap as well.

 

Sucks that your ex was/is such a d-bag. And it sucks I wasted my marriage focusing on career, plus multiple business for her, being an awesome providing, kids and hard work but yet neglected her as a woman making me a d-bag. And I'm sure that your "prince charming" that you're dating now was somebody else's d-bag. Sucks. We figure it out, learn and move on.

 

I don't have to bad mouth my ex, they say things and I attempt to defend her, help them understand the reality of the situation and tell them that their mom is trying. One of my daughters has been asking me more lately, "Dad, I wish we could choose where we wanted to live. If I had a choice, I know where I would pick." So If *I* could choose, I'd have them full time and their mom would figure her crap out and just go away but that's not reality and that's definitely not what I tell them. I hold no Ill will toward her and I'm not bitter, I'm just indifferent toward her. Someone else can deal with that train wreck. I'm happy I got married and I'm happy I was divorced. I need to be done in every way possible.

[benga]

Jeff - I couldnt have put things accross any more appropriately, and in my view Lost doesnt need to defend himself - and specially not in anyway that concerns his son. Lost (and many others here) is perhaps one of "the" most connected/engaged fathers that i know and everything that I know of Lost and his dealings with his son are appropriate.

 

Waffle - I cant help but think time and time again that you are chiming in on the wrong thread. You dont seem to be helping anybody here and your "advise" doesnt seem to resonate with any of us. I really believe your life experiences have been and continue to be very different, and your perspectives might be suited for another thread, not this one!! I cant help but think again and again that you are still "the victim" and have taken absolutely no accountablity or responsiblity for the demise of your marriage except for trashing your exH again, and again, and again....... Do you see anybody here trashing their ex-spouses, despite everything that has happened?? Oh yeah!!! I too was referred to as a dead-beat husband, a good for nothing controlling ass 6 years ago when my wife felt "the victim" !! Today, I am the best husband any wife could wish for - and this is coming from the same person who changed (along with me)!!!!

[benga]

Lost - thanks for sharing the update about the wonderful progress your son has made with his grade. It takes just one "engaged" parent to swing things around. Ideally its best if both are engaged and that is really when I feel for the kids of this situation. But one truly engaged parent is equally good. How do you manage to juggle so many schedules? This improvement must have done his confidence a world of good. Its all about confidence really... also about keeping them focussed. Its so easy for them to get distracted these days

 

My daughters grades are back in the A/A+ range and has been quite consistently there the past 3 years. R is very involved and so am I. T has chosen who's help she needs on specific subjects. I cover math and science, R covers the others. T has also got us back into a routine where the 3 of us sit for 1 hour without distractions (television/phones etc..) where she speaks to us about her day, her friends (and off course the girlie issues of that age and thereon her problems... Its an hour dedicated to her where R and I just shut up and listen to her She is so sensitive to any under currents between R & me. I cant help but feel that kids who have seen parent separate/divorce, are generally more sensitive - not sure if that is how others feel too..

 

Good work Lost... Please tell S we are really proud of him.... and to keep up the consistent progress and good work....

[nick66]

That sounds awfully familiar benga.

[lostandhurt]

Not that I need to explain this but I will.

 

My son was in his room getting his homework put into his backpack and I was at the kitchen table writing a check when he came out. He walked up and said "Whatcha dioin?" I said "Writing a check to your mother" He said "Child support huh?" I said "yep" then he said "I find it strange that you pay her for child support when you are the one doing all the supporting"

He could clearly see her name on the check while standing there and I did start writing it when he was in his room. He happened to walk up while I was writing it. No big deal really.

 

It is okay to agree to disagree and in this case that is what I choose to do.

 

Lost

[lostandhurt]

Benga,

So good to hear T is doing so well. Yes it is so much better if both parents are involved, especially where school is concerned. Cherish the time you have now with T because when they get older the sharing reduces somewhat....at least with boys.

 

You and your wife have a common goal in raising a wonderful little girl and what better reason to work as hard as you can to have a loving, open and honest marriage. It still impresses me how you were able to make it through all she put you through and have such a great outcome. There are very few that could do what you did...

 

When we recognize how the ego can manipulate our thoughts and actions and stop it before it goes to far our lives open up before us as never before. Like the song says "We are all just prisoners here, of our own device"

The good news is that we all hold the key...

 

Lost

[lostandhurt]

Jeff,

 

" I don't have to bad mouth my ex, they say things and I attempt to defend her, help them understand the reality of the situation and tell them that their mom is trying. One of my daughters has been asking me more lately, "Dad, I wish we could choose where we wanted to live. If I had a choice, I know where I would pick." So If *I* could choose, I'd have them full time and their mom would figure her crap out and just go away but that's not reality and that's definitely not what I tell them. I hold no Ill will toward her and I'm not bitter, I'm just indifferent toward her. Someone else can deal with that train wreck. I'm happy I got married and I'm happy I was divorced. I need to be done in every way possible."

 

The children are never given enough credit for seeing through all the B S are they. I have tried to defend my ex to my son but now he is old enough and has figured things out on his own that he really will not tolerate it. "Dad, she lies right to my face" Dad, she basically doesn't care" "Dad, if that is true then why doesn't she ever come to any of my doctor appointments or visit me after my surgeries?"

 

Like you I have tried to put the best spin on it I can but they are smart and as they get older they express it more openly. "Sometimes your mother has trouble with the truth" "she does work and doesn't have the freedom my job gives me to care for you" "I know she loves you and she is doing the best she can" His answers as of late. "No Dad she is a liar" "She doesn't work on Thursdays or the weekends" "She may love me because I am her son but she sure doesn't show it very often"

 

More times than not I am at a loss for words and just tell him that we should be hopeful things will get better.

 

Lost

[Juliette ne pas]

Sorry Lost, I wish you and your children didn't have to suffer so...hugs.

[Raoul]

Children possess amazing 'crap detectors'. The court decided that they would be suitcase kids - a week here, a week there. There was even special treatment for our daughter, who because she was a girl, needed more time with her mother. I was supposed to have her only every other weekend. The decree came down in early 2011.

 

My daughter has not stayed at her mother's for 4 months now. This is the second episode of this. Our two boys are always here, occasionally spending a nigh at Mom's now and then

 

I don't run their mother down to them. There is no need. They experience her as some sort of mute housekeeper that cooks, cleans, does laundry and grocery shops. She either cannot or will not treat them as children or even much like people. My daughter described how she sees her Mom as 'someone that thinks of us a pieces of luggage with handles sewn into our heads that will just go where carried'.

 

I tell them that Mom loves them and shows them that in in unfamiliar ways and that all she does is for them. I make sure that they get her birthday presents, Mother's Day gifts and attend the now very rare family functions she has - the most recent being an Easter gathering.

 

They see, they feel, they know that something is wrong. It is so hard to see them struggle with this. I do what I can. But I will not lie to them.

[John Bendix]

My boys saw through my X for a long time. They were 13,18 and 20 at the time she left. They do not trust her. They see her having some emotional problems and huge swings in attitude for no apparent reason. My youngest never stayed with her in all the years he was a minor and dictated by the court to stay with her. She has always blamed me for "poisoning" them against her. They are intelligent children and I let them make up their own minds.

 

I, too, did not act phoney around them or their mother. I did not want them to hate their mother. They began to realize that it hurt me when they spoke ill of their mother to me. Being honest with yourself and the world around you is the beginning of acceptance of what is.

[benga]

Speaking of crap detectors, my daughter saw through all the bull and lies when she was at age 3. My wife wasnt the most careful when we separated to share her feeling about me with our daughter. As she continued thrashing me to her family / friends, my daughter (I was naturally not present), became my defender (at age 3), and told my wife to stop telling lies... At age 3 she chose to live me with over her mother.. When a child digs her/his heels and refuses to do the weekly communte from one house to the other, choses one parent over the other, there is nothing much one can do.. My wife couldnt do a thing and as much as she tried to influence our daughter to move back in with her, our daughter didn't budge.. Off course, I was trashed all over again because of this, but I had my daughter with me and on my side - peoples opinions, my exwife (at that time) and the world could go to hell I constantly encouraged my ex-wife at the time to spend more time with our daughter and be more involved in her life... She was too busy focussed on herself to worry or care about anybody else...

 

Interesting however is that I am completely falling in love again - with the same woman who ripped my heart and hung it to dry.. She is in love with the same d-bag, insensitive, careless husband.. Its taken 3 years of really hard work on both our parts to reach here... Still work to do on our relationship - its going to be a continuous process I guess, taking each day/week/month at a time.

[benga]

Not that I need to explain this but I will.

 

My son was in his room getting his homework put into his backpack and I was at the kitchen table writing a check when he came out. He walked up and said "Whatcha dioin?" I said "Writing a check to your mother" He said "Child support huh?" I said "yep" then he said "I find it strange that you pay her for child support when you are the one doing all the supporting"

He could clearly see her name on the check while standing there and I did start writing it when he was in his room. He happened to walk up while I was writing it. No big deal really.

 

It is okay to agree to disagree and in this case that is what I choose to do.

 

Lost

 

What we havent spoken about are what the children learn from all of this about their parents.. I am quite certain that your son picked up a really valuable life lesson from you after this brief conversation. About responsibilities, accountabilities, obligations... when you have to do something, you have to do it!! whether you like it or not

[Raoul]

Children learn far more from what they see and hear than from what we try to teach them. To me, that's why being a good example for them is so important.

[lostandhurt]

I was told by my sons therapist that having one stable parent can prevent the children of divorce from being adversely affected by the whole situation. I believe we al want what is best for our children and that includes our ex's. For them though their view of reality is skewed or their dysfunction clouds things so they think they are a great parent when in fact a 3 year old can see that they are not. I have noticed that they care more how things look than how they really are...

 

I believe John's relationship with his son's is very good and they are now much older. That is my goal. To have a great relationship with my son that lasts my lifetime. I want the way I carry myself and handle difficult situations imparts honesty, integrity and responsibility on him that he will carry all his life and pass onto his children.

 

They will all be grown up and off on their own before we all know it so I treat every moment with precious care...

 

Lost

[waffle]

I would strongly encourage the men here to get the ball rolling on sole custody. I've known of dads to pursue this and if Mom is as unfit as it's being told here, there's no chance you won't be successful. In fact, I can name two moms I've known of who voluntarily gave up custody once the papers were filed and they realized their parenting skills were going to be aired in open court. We don't live in the dark ages anymore and custody isn't AUTOMATICALLY awarded to the mom. If it goes to court and for some reason it turns out Mom really isn't quite as bad as the kid imagines or as is being told here, it would still mean the world to your kids to know you fought for them in the official, legal way.

[IAmFCA]

I advised my children (10 and 13) to remember that each of us has strengths and weaknesses. To identify what their father is good at, and look to him to provide those things. To accept what he is not good at, and not look to him for those things. Their dad is disappointing and frustrating and has left the parenting to me. He loves them as best he can, and we can't expect any different. It can be a tough lesson, but better than looking for something that isn't there.

[Raoul]

I already have de facto sole custody waffle. The law (de jure) says otherwise and. I pay child support under the law, not reality (two distinct things, neither having much to do with the other.

 

Sole custody is all but unknown where I live. Sole custody by fathers, absent an incarcerated or certified insane spouse in unheard of.

[IAmFCA]

I already have de facto sole custody waffle. The law (de jure) says otherwise and. I pay child support under the law, not reality (two distinct things, neither having much to do with the other.

 

Sole custody is all but unknown where I live. Sole custody by fathers, absent an incarcerated or certified insane spouse in unheard of.

 

Agree: sole custody takes a good sheaf of evidence to achieve. Primary physical custody and shared legal custody, definitely achievable. My friend who scored sole legal custody spent a lot of time and effort documenting her ex's risk-embracing behaviors... and eventually she won. She is a lawyer and she played victim very well. I scored primary physical and kept the visits to a level I knew he would be to (mostly) perform, and winnowed the legal to give me sole authority over matters I care about, such as education. When absolutes are difficult to achieve, it helps to negotiate in pieces and parts.

[nick66]

I pretty much have shared custody with my kids, and I would love to have them full time. My job hours prohibit this however, so I do the best I can. The best part is that my relationship with my ex is so good that the kids are actually over every day of the week, and I've had them the last three weekends. That's the plus side to getting along in my opinion.

 

I know that my girls know it was my wife who screwed up, as both have hinted at it. It's not my place to give them the details, as that's between my ex and I. I know that as they grow older they will all want to live with me, I can see it already.

 

My son, once he reaches age 12 in a couple of years, I will then let him make the decision on what he wants to do. My girls will then be 14 and 17, and I'll let them decide as well. As far as paying my child support, it automatically comes out of my paycheck so no worries there.

 

I will always continue to never talk bad about my ex in front of the kids. When they call me and complain about something she did, I take the time to explain why she did it and also point out where perhaps they did something wrong as well. My job in this world is to be the best damn father I can be to my kids, nothing more.

 

My kids know that I'm always there for them no matter what. I don't care if I'm at work, out doing whatever, if they need me I'm there.

 

I know all those here are great parents, and we all know how hard it is to be one all by yourself. I'm lucky though as my ex has always been a great mother.

[lostandhurt]

I advised my children (10 and 13) to remember that each of us has strengths and weaknesses. To identify what their father is good at, and look to him to provide those things. To accept what he is not good at, and not look to him for those things. Their dad is disappointing and frustrating and has left the parenting to me. He loves them as best he can, and we can't expect any different. It can be a tough lesson, but better than looking for something that isn't there.

Very well said. Acceptance is the key that unlocks a great many doors.

 

Lost