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Relationship With X


John Bendix
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I would like to start a topic on how we deal with the X after the seperation and divorce.

 

It seems to matter how the actual dissolution of the relationship happened. Thrown into the mix is the children that are involved. In most of the posts that I have read here, the divorce is one-sided. The reasons for the separation do not seem to matter as much as the way it is handled or perceived to have been handled by both partners involved.

 

In my case, my X unloaded the bomb and withdrew behind her wall. Nothing got in or out, emotional speaking. She would have no discussion with me no matter how rational and calm I attempted to proceed. I was belittled, screamed at, blamed for everything, accused of everything, and then just ignored. I felt responsible for her emotional distress to the max. I felt that a righteous man would try to help his wife and his family all he could. She took it as interference with her right to live her life anyway she wanted. I was told many times that she did not need or want my help, she did not want to talk to me, and that she just wanted me out of her life.

 

When I was served divorce papers, went to court, and received custody of the kids and the house, she refused to speak to me unless it was to continue her assault on my character. At this point, I did not take it personally. I tried to get her to see reality but she was extremely delusional and in denial of her actions. I still wanted her to stay and work out her problems and ours. She told me she wasted 25 years of her life on me and that I turned the kids against her. They rarely and begrudgingly see her or repsond to her phone calls. Her demeanor towards them is of all smiles and "Disneyland Mom" but they see through it and see her as a phoney and in a state of denial that anything is wrong with her. They refuse to deal with her in anyway meaningful but will not hurt her feelings.

 

Fast forward to post divorce (14 months ago). In this time, I have not called her once. She has called a few times, nerviously (guity conscious need no accuser?), in which she begins to vent what was wrong with me. No remorse, appologies to our kids, or a tear has been shed by her in this time. Anger has been her only outlet and directed at me. I do not react emotionally or even respond to the ludicris accusations and untruths thrown at me. She even tried to tell a month or so ago that I threw her out. I never wanted her to leave and wrote letters to her explaining that since she did not want to talk. The positve side of divorce is that I do not have to listen to this anymore. When it begins, I simply say bye and hang up. When she immediately calls back, I explain that I am not going through this again and when I tried to talk to her, for months, she refused. I say bye again. She calls back but this time I am not answering. I do not need anymore of these toxic interactions.

 

Since the only minor left (15) refuses to go to her house, there is very little opportunity for interaction. When she comes to his games, we do not speak to one another or acknowledge each other's existence. She nerviously watches me but dares not to approach me. I cannot think of a worse outcome after a 25 year intimate relationship which produced three outstanding human beings, my sons.

 

I am not condoning all of my actions but all of this has lead me down a path I know I needed to be on. My book tells the whole story in detail.

 

Comments?

 

John

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Sorry to hear about that.

 

As I have been told by people that are close to me:

 

be the better person

 

do not argue back

 

when you do say something, say it to the point

 

show your kids you are strong, be open with them, have an open communication

 

You are doing the right thing, keeping in that line of path is what you have to work on. Which I know can be a daily task.

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My story on relationship with an X after divorce is a somewhat different one. Not necessarily less painful, but it is different.

This is a condensed version of my story as there are many twists and turns in the whole relationship, so I will just mention the basics at this time. About a year ago, my wife of 17 years decided that she did not want to be married anymore. There were no major factors for the reason, just many little ones that piled up over the years. Basically it boiled down to a drifting apart and non-communication about things that should have been discussed. She felt she didn't know me anymore, I had changed, she wanted to find out what she wanted and could do with her life, and needed to do that on her own. The big turning point was when I (not a confrontational person) 'blew up' about all the things that were going on in our lives. I wasn't blowing up about her at all, but to her about everything else. She didn't like it and was scared and decided that we needed to be apart.

In two weeks after this she asked for a divorce and I quietly agreed to it without argument, mainly because I knew there was no point in arguing as she said that if I didn't then she would take me to court, which I did not want, as we have kids and I did not want them to be dragged into anything ugly. We sat down, came up with an agreement on custody, possessions, money, and that neither would ask for support or alimony from the other.(Why couldn't we have sat down and talked like this when married?!?) She then submitted everything to an attorney and the divorce was finalized 2 weeks before Christmas.

She moved out of our house that October and is now living in an apartment. I also moved from our house and moved to another house that is in the town where our kids go to school (We did have a small farmstead in the country). We are about ten miles apart, the kids come to my place every Wed, Thur, and alternating weekends. They take the bus to her place on the other days. We are in constant contact with each other (to talk about the kids and schedules, etc. ) and see each other almost twice a week. At the beginning I was initiating contact, asking if we could talk about us, trying to get more clarity on what exactly went wrong and hoping to repair something. I do love her and am still hoping for this as I don't see it as 'irreconciable differences' as stated in the attorney's papers. She has always given an excuse not to talk about us (wrong time, too tired , phones dying, I haven' had time to think about us, etc.). So, I did actually stop initiating anything (Before I got onto this website and learned about NC!) which did help me quite a bit in my own personal life. She has now been the one initiating contact, pops around to see me at work, sends an occasional e-mail (one being "It was really good to see you today. We haven't talked much lately except about the kids") Yeah. No kidding. She came around here last Thursday morning to do my daughters hair for school picture day (probably a good idea really!)

Honestly, I'm not sure how I really feel about all of this. There is no animosity or harshness and we are both getting along fine (I have a new job, she has a new job, we are both happy with our work). But sometimes I wish there is or had been because it may make this all easier for me. I feel as if I am in a 'limbo' state. I have no desire to date anybody else, nor does she. She had even said at the beginning (possibly just to soothe me) that she would rather divorce me now and remarry me than to continue being married at that time(!?) If there was more of a rift between us, I feel it would be easier for me to just move on with my life, but at this moment it really isn't that bad and I am still 'holding on' for that possibility. I guess the one thing that does bother me is that she seems to be playing 'married' but does not want to be married. And I really don't have any anger towards her. I am hurt and confused and I wouldn't mind a few questions answered, but I do not have this loathing for her. This also makes it harder. I have become a bit more indifferent to some things, but a true anger has just not come into play.

As I said this is a somewhat condensed version of my whole story. If anyone has some insight, or questions or thoughts on all of this, it would be very much appreciated. Would just like to know someone else's take on this. And maybe somebody will let me know what's going on, as my X doesn't seem to want to!

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It is great that there is no emotional "violence" between the two of you. But that does not discount other harmful emotional reaction that are being gathered inside as pain.

 

Does she know what she wants? I seriously doubt it. Has htere been an emotional wall buit up to shield her from the pain she has inside ? Very likely. It is exhibiting itself in her refusal to talk through the issues between you. This wall, once erected by the ego, does not allow anything potential harmful in or out. The ego views them as threats to itself.

 

It seems that the relationship was perceived by her to be one that did not satisfy her needs. Actually this a just a patented phrase to cover up one's dissatisfaction with one's own life situation. If this is not egoic in nature, I do not know what else is. Her needs, as are everyone's, are the needs of the ego. The ego incessantly needs something to make itself feel more complete. But, what it is really seeking is the feeling it derives from fulfullment, accomplishment, or possesion. These emotional feelings, as well as every other one, are temporary and fleeting. The nature of the ego is to always seek more as an erroneous attempt to make it feel more complete. I see the fulfillment of needs as an insatiable desire which leads to some dyfunctional actions and mind set.

 

The hurt and confusion you feel will be expressed in some emotional way or another. It may be consolidated as pain inside of you such as the low hum of discontentment that you may feel constantly.

 

The divorce now and re-marry idea does not seem rational but it is a symptom of looking to the future to bail her out from the pain she has. Her relationship did live up to her expectations (future). But, she continues to go down the same dysfunctional mind set that it will do so. Believe me, she is in pain but withholding its emtional display to you and the outside world, with the help of the wall, just as you have done.

 

Wishing and hopeing that things are different, were differnet, or will be different, is again the ego's erroneous way of coping. The future will not bail you out. The past cannot be changed. Accepting what is, right now, will end emotional suffering. You are free to work for change in the here and now but without expectation of what will happen in the imaginary future.

 

"I’ve just been out there doing what seems to make the most sense to me and letting go of the outcome".

Dr. Wayne Dyer

 

John

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BeyondHurt,

 

Thanks for your insight.

 

The court sanctioned mediator, who happened to be the ex-Family Court judge, tried to tell me the same thing. She told me that since I was the rational one in this divorce, that I would have to stand up and be the one to make things go in a proper fashion. That my X was so self absorbed by this point that she could not be counted on to make rational decisions in regards to the proceures of the court. While true, this was an obvious attempt to appeal to my ego.

 

By trying to help her wiht her struggles (fruitless task), I did not ingage in any arguments or confrontations. She was too far gone, in more ways than one, to have a conversation with. I was even told that I was the enemy. All subsequent conversations have been iniatated by her and an attempt to lash out at me for what has transpired. She even withholds child support, measly amount, in order to get hunk on me. I simply choose not to be involved in this toxic relationship not matter what the court says that I have to do.

 

John

 

John

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Thank-you John for the reply and comments. I agree with everything you said. I don't feel that she knows what she wants (3 different jobs and three address changes in 8 months. A little unsettled), and there is definitely a big wall, or should I say fortress, built around her.

She has mentioned to me though, that since the divorce she has been able to see how her actions contributed to the failure of our marriage. Before, it was all to do with me. At least we agree on something now--that neither one of us now believe that I was solely to blame. My own insight to this has helped me tremendously in my own personal growth and healing.

Still not sure where to even go with this, if there is even a right 'path' to take. Do I weather out the storm and wait for this wall of hers to come down (even the Berlin Wall came down, so there may be a chance here!), or abandon the whole idea and move on? I think in a way I am doing both at this time. I am getting on with my life and feel that I am in a pretty good place with myself ( could be better of course), but also just hanging on and waiting to see if the walls do start to crumble. Am I fooling myself into believing that this could happen? Is this just all a waste of time and energy?

Anyone know of similar situations?

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If you are asking if there is a right thing to do, I would have to answer no. We do not know how things will turn out. The outcome of everything under the sun is in doubt. The future can not known in any certainty. It is a realm that only exists in images of what could be. The place thatwe can effect change ordo anything is the present moment. It is in this timeless, present moment that everything is done. Try not to live in the future with expectation of the outcome. The only certain is disappointment. Putting your attention there can lead to alot of suffering.

 

Many therapists that I have talked have told me that the Walkaway will either see the light or not. No one knows. Her dysfunctional mind set led to the construction of an emotional wall. If she has learned to build a fortress to cope with her fears and pain, she may just keep on doing this. Because she says that she sees that you are not to blame entirely for the dissolution of the marriage is good for her own well being and a first step towards rationality. Sorry, but not necessarily a sign for a renewal of her connection with you. She could erect those walls at a moment's notice. I hope not but it can happen.

 

Communication through each other's connection with one another is the key. The wall is the obstacle and it is her obstacle to communication. You cannot get through it without her aprroval. How to get that is a question for the ages because of its dysfunctional nature. The walkaway is the one most resistent to change because of the risk of future pain.

 

"I’ve just been out there doing what seems to make the most sense to me and letting go of the outcome".

Dr. Wayne Dyer

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Thank-you again for your input. It is whay I like about this site--seeing ones situation through anothers eyes. We tend to cloud over our vision, and see and think what we want to see and think. To see things and events from anothers perspective does give everything a bit more of a clear focus. Thanks again for your help.

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The other side being seeking out male companions for interactions of all types? Good luck to him but not something I have an interest in.

 

John

 

Sorry it I came accross the wrong way here. I have had ppl tell me the similar advice. A good co-worker, friends, and my hair stylist. The few ppl I have confided in and they know have all gave me good advice from their own experiences.

 

Again sorry if you meant I was implying anything.

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  • 2 weeks later...

John - Excellent and very insightful posts - like always. Would you have any advice on how possibly one works on breaking (or even dealing with) those emotional walls that we all know so well.

 

I have been separated from my wife for about 9 months know and am recently back in some form of light contact with the X. She even came home yesterday and sat around for a bit. I am in exactly the same situation, dealing with an emotional wall, ego and very brief emotional outbreaks with hints of wanting to reconcile.

 

Bonkers!!! One moment speaking about reconciling and the next moment blaming me for everything... Soon after suggests we could take a family holiday and discusses options... !!!!!!! And today no response to my text when I suggested that we meet for dinner. Confusing and strange behaviour. How does one possibly deal with this?

 

Look forward to some insight here..

 

Benga

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Benga,

 

I really do know what works in this type of scenario. I know what does not work because most of what I thought was the right thing to do was not. I did do some things instinctively correct but she refused to even acknowledge it.

 

I really think that link removed by Michele Weiner-Davis gives alot of good tips on how to proeed. They tend to be very passive by letting the Walkaway have their space. In a way, it is logically because they are the ones that really have to change the way they think and the ones left behind can do nothing about that. When dealing in an irrational person (i.e. "The clear sky is red", and will argue that point until doomsday because they need it to be red), there is very near no compatible communication level.

 

I see it, and some out there disagree, as they need help with their point of perspective. They are coping with the world with from only the dysfunctional ego. The pain, that the ego has identified as them, is calling the shots. This is a level of dysfunction very high up on the insanity scale. They are in emotional distress.

 

Like Dyer says, do what you think makes sense. Sees where it goes. I hope things progress but I really think some pro help is needed.

 

John

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I think what he is saying about the wall and the ego are absolutely correct. A short version of my story is simular. My ex wife disconnected emotionally from me three years ago. I was willing to do anything to fix it. We had a wonderful marriage, I thought, but apparently not in her eyes. She just wanted out of the marriage without even giving me a logical explanation.

 

I struggled for nine months while the divorce was in process to tear down the wall or at least apply some logic to it, but to no avail. As I sifted through the ashes I discovered she had been having an affair with a friend of mine all along. So yeah, I was the source of her pain without even knowing it.

 

To fix her ego she had to see me as the cause of this pain. When our divorce was final I went strict NC. We don't have any children and as she continued to attempt contact with me, she gets to run into my wall. I guess I am different than others, because we don't have to have contact about children.

 

As a result she becomes more and more angry and drags me back to court over any petty thing she can dream up. When I did allow her to contact me long ago, she was only setting me up for future failure and thus justifying her behavior. Although I don't want to hang on to the anger, her ego can rot in he**.

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John

This is a very interesting thread and is very specific to those who have been married for a while and are dealing with "the walkaway".

 

Instinctively, we knew that all was not well in the relationship and that the 'checking out' by the "walkaway" had begun a while ago with communication breaking down ever so slowly. But we never thought we would be heading down the divorce path over the course of time.

 

So when the walkout happens, many of us are actually left shocked and dumbfounded to a large extent. This is when some real strange behaviours by the X begin to get displayed. Emotional walls, dysfunctional ego's, confusing, flip flopping conversations is indeed very emotionally confusing. Something one minute and something entirely the next the other. Selfish behaviours being displayed all the time and the object of all the wrath, anger, blame etc is naturally "us"...

 

Its been 9 months for me and I have been making baby steps all along. 15 years together and this being my first real relationship which began at age 18.

 

My question here is what behaviours do I display of what should I do to deal with a dysfunctional ego and what do I do to break it!!! We all know that ego's can be broken and I am willing to give it a fight to break it. How does one combat selfish behaviour?

 

We haven't spoken of divorce. Do you think a threat of divorce or my filing it would break some of this ego?

 

I want to break this dysfunctional ego. The more I see it, the more confused I get.

 

John - What should one do in this situation? Your insights over the month have been just fantastic.

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At Johns suggestion, I too went to link removed, I ordered the books by Michelle and find it a great explanation of what occurred between my wife and I. I try to remove myself a bit as a participant and look at it objectively, it's a fascinating phenomena, the "walkaway-wife", my wife did the classic walkaway and has taken refuge in a skewed recollection of our years together, much as I've taken refuge in N/C and rebuilding myself as a complete, individual person again.

 

I know thru the grapevine she is quite puzzled by what I now do, playing solo music gigs again, playing in a gigging band like I couldn't do for the last 15 years, she knew I always wanted to be back in a band and now I am.

 

I think she expected me to sit alone pineing for the fjords.

 

Well, I'm not and she doesn't quite know how to take it.

 

This thread is great for all us dumped by the WAW.

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Surfjon- I am glad Michele's book could be of help.

 

Benga- The book could help you to see what might work and what only pushes the walkaway further away.

 

As for breaking the ego, good luck. The ego that I am referring to here is the one created by our minds to organize our defense mechanisms. A very useful tool in trying to survive. The problem presents itself when the ego deals with emotional and psychological threats as if it would to wild animal coming at us. This ego also begins to associate itself as essential for our survival and will protect itself. It begins to identify itself as the real us or the person that we are. The ego will then perceive these imagined threats and protect itself in reaction. What harm can an emotional or verbal attacks have on us physically? The harm can come to us in our emotional reactions. The reactions of the ego who feels that it might be diminshed if it does not react in kind to the emotional assault.

 

This leads to the development of emotional defense mechanisms that the ego, through practice, gets especially good at. Most of us utilize these but it is to what level of dyfunction that we allow our ego to obtain, with its defenses, that causes most of our suffering. I go into more detail in my next book.

 

I wrote all of this to show you just how difficult the breaking of someone's ego will be. Believe me, I tried to get through the emotional wall of my X to health threatening proportions. I knew that it was standing in the way of us communicating. I knew that she was emotional distressed and not rational. She still is not almost 2 years later. We do not talk. I was told a couple of months ago that I threw her out of the house. I used letters to ask her to stay since she was not listening to what I had to say. Her ego could not deal with the fact that she left, and divorced me, and others might think that she left her kids voluntarily. She convinced them that I threw her out to the point that she started to believe it, and tried to tell me the same thing even while knowing that I knew that this was a complete falsehood.

 

When the ego is in this solid and controls this much of our thinking and our reactions, I do not see how an outside entity can break through.

 

John

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Benga

 

Also, Any attempt to "shock" her out of this has little chance of success. One of my first moves to "wake her up" was to lock her out of the house when she came home, for the 2nd time, at all hours of the morning with no explanation. This did nothing. Our counselor told me later that this is useless in dealing with a person in this mind set. It just gives them more ammunition to justify their leaving.

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I was told a couple of months ago that I threw her out of the house. I used letters to ask her to stay since she was not listening to what I had to say. Her ego could not deal with the fact that she left, and divorced me, and others might think that she left her kids voluntarily. She convinced them that I threw her out to the point that she started to believe it, and tried to tell me the same thing even while knowing that I knew that this was a complete falsehood.John

 

Its amazing how the walkaway can just rewrite your entire marital history to justify in their own mind that its someone elses fault.

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I too am liking this thread. It is fascinating to see all the similarities in the situations presented.

 

Benga--If I am reading into your thread correctly, you seem to be in the exact place as I am in all of this. I was in a relationship for 20 years, 18 (almost) of them married, and had the X walk with very little warning but a lot of blame. I am also though, looking for that 'magic' sledgehammer that will bring down the fortress of solitude that she has built around herself. It has been a year for me, and I have also begun turning my baby steps of healing into strides, yet there is that part of me that still has a hard time turning it into a full gallop and leaving it all behind. Would I be interested in reconciliation? I'd be lying if I said I didn't, but there would have to be a few more questions answered now to satisfy me than there would have been, say, 6 months ago, in order for me to believe that it would be a wise move on my part. Is this foolish hoplessness and unrealistic? More than likely, but I'm not opposed to putting it on the back burner, for awile anyway, as I continue on my own journey and gain more knowledge of it all.

 

Now, my question is, and this may be an obviously stupid and "yeah, DUH" one, but is this really all a control issue? That they have no sense of control in their own basics issues and dilemmas, so they create the 'scapegoat' (marriage, husband) as the root of their problems, and then control that situation (walking away) in order to bring some sort of sense or relief to themselves? Does this make sense?

I guess part of my asking is because of what happened in our relationship years ago. About 5 years into our marriage, we were going through rough times. It was nothing really to do with our marriage, but the basic hardships that most couples may experience. We were both trying to get through post-college schooling (her-law, me-education), both working near full-time jobs, financial strife, and topping it off, infertility issues. I came home one day after student teaching and discovered that she had moved all of her stuff out. She had enlisted friends and family to help her while I was away. (very pre-meditated) I was, of course, completely shocked and devestated. She wouldn't even talk to me for 4 months. During this time I decide to move out of state, and told her so after we did start talking. She broke down, started attending counseling with me ( refused the offer before so I went on my own), we reconciled and moved together out of state. My feeling is that she sensed that she was no longer in control of the situation, knew she was losing me, and couldn't handle that. Now, speed up 13 years. We now live 10 miles apart in a small community, have kids (so an option of moving is not there as I am not going to uproot my kids nor am I going to be away from them), she can, and does,contact me when she wants to, and how my work is, is able to stop by and see me whenever (which she does once or twice a week). She has avoided any suggestion on my part to talk about us (I have now given up on even persuing this and have not initiated any contact), so, in essense is still 'in control' of the situation. She knows I'm not going anywhere, so can just sit back and relax. She is all smiles and 'nicey-nice' when we do meet or talk, so this all leads to more confusion and frustration on my part. She asked if she could drop by something that my daughter needed for the morning the other night, and when she got here, I was busy getting dinner ready and just said "Oh. Thanks. Just leave it on the table", and went back to making dinner. She then had to call me that night and make sure I wasn't mad at her about something because I wasn't real 'chipper' towards her when she was there(!). I guess the thing that upsets me is that she seems quite happy and content to "play" married, yet wants nothing to do with 'being' married. Again, any similarities to this out there, or am I just being irrational and analyzing or reading into things a bit more than I really should be?

 

I guess in a way I have this feeling that she truly still does not know what she really wants, and may be just keeping me around for a back up plan in case nothing else satisfies her. If there was reconciliation here, I will need to know that I am now 'A number one", instead of 'Plan B'.

 

Thoughts on all of this?

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I thought I would get involved with this topic also since my situation is similar to everyone else's.Little background,married for almost ten yrs,one child four years old at time of divorce,we had just completed building our home that took almost a year to complete,some arguing never any name calling or real nasty words to each other but there were hurtful things said mostly by me and I accept that and know it was wrong,I just never felt that she appreciated what I was trying to do for us as a family.Two weeks into the new house she says she was not happy and needed some time,divorce was said so I went into panic mode and probably pushed her further.She works for an attorney so from the time she left until divorce was final was 30 days and she was immediately with someone that was around her at work.Never wanted to discuss anything said she told me she was unhappy and I had my chance.She is still with this guy and never blinked an eye to ever try to work anything out,not even when I went into the hospital a few weeks after divorce was final.The hard part for me is she seemed to be so family oriented and telling me she loved me right up until she left.I guess the question I have is did everyone else think there marriage was pretty respectable,didnt think you faught that much and the reasons they had for leaving were just minor stuff.If I told you some of the reasons she gave me ya'll would probably laugh.I guess its the whole shock,like I never thought this person would do this for these reasons.

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Mrsympathy, your situation sounds exactly as mine, minus the children (we could'nt have any). However we never argued. In 10 years I can count on one hand the arguments we had. I wish we would have had them though, so I could at least known she had anger building up inside her.

 

I don't think you can blame it all on a few hurtful words (sticks and stones) but, it may have been the straw that broke the camels back so to speak. Was she already emotionally disconnected? Mine did the same thing. No reasoning, no effort to save the marriage, just quickly left and filed for divorce. She moved her things straight from our house into his.

 

I was ignorant to the walkaway wife syndrome until I found these boards. If I were you I would think more about how the relationship with the guy at work developed. Mine would not talk about it either, but it took me awhile to figure out that she had developed feelings over time with a friend of ours. Of course she had to walkaway, to save her ego and her image. She convinced herself and everyone in her circle that I was her problem. I know better now. Her problem is hers and I'm not accountable for it. She has chosen her path and I am sure that he will pay the price also, as the cycle will repeat itself in all her relationships.

 

Just another way of looking at it.

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