Relationship With X

[benga]

Nick - great to hear from you. Firstly it is absolutely awesome that you got out and experienced what you did, and there is a whole world out there, which has been alien to you since you got into a committed relationship with your exW. Take your time in putting yourself out there, but be sure to get out once in a while. Its really important.

 

Second, the reactions of your exW must be mind numbing - funny how dysfunctional they are. Its really upto you what you want, but if you cant trust her anymore, that answers alot of your internal questions. You cannot have a relationship when the foundations of trust are missing... Till then, continue to enjoy the life that you have. You live once, so live it best... Its never too late to start over again (as you just experienced)....

[waffle]

Waffle - you said "From where I sit, it seems most men remain in love with the Ex for many years, some forever, so it's nothing out of the ordinary". Perhaps thats just your opinion. Do ask yourself a question - Is your exH still in love with you?

Well, no. He would be the exception to that rule. That's why I said "most men."

 

. . . you have been urged to post them in a more relevant forum several times over... Perhaps this thread isnt for situations like yours...

Point taken. Finally.

[lostandhurt]

Nick,

Yeah she lives about 3 hrs from me in the Bay area.

 

Isn't it nice when the things you know need to happen begin to come together? Logically you knew it couldn't keep going like it was because it wasn't healthy for you but emotionally it is hard to walk away from what you have always known and once loved. Well done. Closing that door will surely open plenty of others I am sure of it!!!

Remember the grief you felt over the loss of your marriage? Well your ex is now feeling that grief. She was arrogant and selfish enough to think you were hers for the taking when she was done with her flight of fancy. Ask our friend Benga how his wife reacted when he moved to another country.

 

The best part is that you reconnected with old friends. Don't stop there, keep seeking out old buddies and hobbies that got lost over the years of marriage. Most importantly don't pass up an invitation to go to dinner, come by for a beer or go to a party. What ever you are doing just drop it and go. It will be there when you get back.

 

I am really happy for you Nick

Lost

[nick66]

Nick - great to hear from you. Firstly it is absolutely awesome that you got out and experienced what you did, and there is a whole world out there, which has been alien to you since you got into a committed relationship with your exW. Take your time in putting yourself out there, but be sure to get out once in a while. Its really important.

 

Second, the reactions of your exW must be mind numbing - funny how dysfunctional they are. Its really upto you what you want, but if you cant trust her anymore, that answers alot of your internal questions. You cannot have a relationship when the foundations of trust are missing... Till then, continue to enjoy the life that you have. You live once, so live it best... Its never too late to start over again (as you just experienced)....

 

 

Benga, I highlighted that one line because it hit home for me. I've asked her where were these feelings when I was doing everything I could for us to help repair our marriage? I told her that I'm sorry, it's just too late for me. Those feelings that I had for her, that love that I thought I would always have for her, is just gone now. I'll always love her for who she is, as the mother of our kids, but I'm just not in love with her anymore.

 

I can't go back to trying, I just don't have it in me anymore. I feel so much better, so much happier, just being by myself. I don't need a woman to make me happy, but I do like the companionship that being in a relationship provides. I'm just not in any hurry to meet someone else. I will say that if that woman I met at my reunion lived here I would most definitely want to date her. She's the first woman I've actually wanted to meet, wanted to be with since my divorce.

 

This is what still hurts though, I hate seeing my ex in such pain. I don't get any satisfaction from her hurting, I'm not into revenge or getting her back. She's just been so persistent though in trying to win me back. I just don't want to read it or hear about it. I told her that I just can't be with someone that I have no trust in and isn't loyal to me. Whenever she's crying and expressing how sorry she is for everything, it's like I have some wall built up where I just don't want to hear it. It's too late, and at this point it just doesn't mean much to me.

 

I'm tired of reading how much her life sucks, how it's over for her, how she now has nothing and deserves to be miserable for the rest of her life. You see, that type of stuff used to work on me, I would feel bad for her and console her. Now I just don't respond back when she says stuff like that. I don't feel like responding to her pity party. She says I've changed. I say yeah, I no longer put up with your crap and I tell you exactly what I'm feeling or thinking. She's also constantly asking me what I'm doing on the weekends, dates, whatever. I told her you gave up the right to know when we got divorced.

 

She's just an emotional mess right now, and I worry how she's acting around our kids. I just don't want to deal with it anymore. I know, and better yet, she knows that I did all I could and that she screwed up. I just want us to get along for the sake of our kids. If she can't be an adult about everything then that's her problem.

 

I firmly believe that God has been with me every step of the way. I continue to pray everyday for strength and guidance. I also pray for my ex, that He can give her the strength she needs to get through all of this and to live a happy life.

 

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond.

[benga]

Nick - I hear you, and I had been in your shoes for several years and can imagine the confusion and frustration in your mind.... Broken trust, betrayal are difficult to deal with and impossible at times. However, if her efforts to reassure you and to win you back are genuine, you might take some time away and then give her a listen. Time might change the way you see the situation at the moment. Your exW has done this before, and you went heart n soul into reconciliation with her, only to be heart broken again - hence it is natural for you to doubt and suspect her current intentions.

 

From the face of it, it seem certain that she is extremely confused. She doesnt know what she wants. She wants a life away from you, but yet doesnt seem to want to let you go. This is selfish. I had second guess this coming - read a few of my posts and advices to you prior. This pattern will likely continue for a while, and rejection from you over a period of time will get her angry and she might start lashing out at you in anger (i hope not!!). And God forbid if you actually do move on with another woman!! I do anticipate some crazy reaction.

 

Take a step away from this, and like we have been tell you - get some distance between yourself and her to think and put things into perspective. There continues to be too much contact and information sharing, which isnt healthy. You arent married anymore, so alot of this isnt necessary. If she is an emotional mess, ask her friends or parent to encourage her to go for therapy (NOT YOU- how she is coping is not your problem anymore), for the sake and well being of the children. But I would once again strongly urge you to put some distance between yourselves for the moment and stop acting like husband / wife - it isnt going to solve any of your problems and will add to the emotionally charged environment that already exists.

[nick66]

Benga, I'm not sure if time away from her will change how I feel towards her. I gave it my all, and she acknowledges that I did, and I just don't have anything left. I just don't have the feelings I need to even try. I'm not in love with her, and my physical attraction for her has dwindled as well. Whenever I get a text message on my phone I tell myself that I hope it isn't her. It's not that I hate her, far from it. I genuinely care about her and I pray for her daily. I worry about her and I still help her out when I can. I just want a friendship at this point, nothing more.

 

She on the other hand has just gone really overboard the last couple of weeks. Ever since she found out I spent time with another woman she has basically done a 180 in her feelings towards me. She has always cared about me, and she demonstrated that about a month ago when I was hospitalized for 3 days. She spent all 3 days with me, taking care of me. She has said that she wants to try and fall in love with me again, that she wishes more than anything we could be a family again. I'm sorry, I just can't go through this again "hoping" she falls in love again. I mean even if she did, I'm not in love with her.

 

She stopped by the house yesterday with my daughter and noticed that I had cleaned out her drawers and put a lot of stuff in boxes. She said I was trying "erase her from my life." My reply was that you've been moved out since the beginning of April and you still haven't made any attempt to get the rest of your stuff. I'm just growing tired of it all. I just want to be left alone and when I'm with my kids to be the best father I can be.

 

All in all I feel pretty damn good about everything. I'm just taking life day by day and doing the best I can.

[benga]

Nick - you will have to find a way to move yourself to a mentally and emotionally healthier place. Like I have been saying again and again, you will have to put some distance between yourself and her and stop meeting so frequently so she can play wife - wife with you. So much contact and interaction, questions, conversation isnt healthy for either of you. She doesnt need to know whats going on in your life and in your home and vice versa. This is forming into a really unhealthy co-dependant pattern, and you arent married anymore. If you need to find peace and move from where you are, you will have to find it in you to stop seeing her and stop this sort of communication

[hopingforbettr]

I agree with Benga. If you don't want to consider a relationship with her anymore then you need to move on........

 

My ex did much the same as yours when she found out that I had started dating and I had to actually move to another town about an hour and half away then arrange a completely different scenario as a drop off/pickup place for the kids. So I didn't have to see the ex, I shut off my cell and she has no way to contact me other then email so I could finally move on.

 

Either you want her in your life or you don't...... Yes I Erased the ex from my life and intend to keep it that way...... Life is SOOOOO Much Better this way....... A year and half later and I still think about the dream that once was almost daily the dream that was shattered for the kids more then anything. Then i Immediately focus on the New dream I'm building and try harder to make it and life the Best it can be, each day gets better and better!!!!!!!!

[nick66]

As far as contacting her, I never call or text her unless it has to do with the kids. The only time we exchange any texts is if she sends me something, and then I keep it short and to the point. I don't want her out of my life, we get along great as friends. I think just right now she's having to experience what it's like to be rejected. I've already been through it and have come out the other side doing great. I'm happy everyday, and I rarely have negative thoughts anymore.

 

My kids are doing fine and that's the most important thing to me. I'm able to distance myself from her when she starts with the negative stuff, as I just stop responding. Usually the next day she'll apologize for her behavior. I don't hate my ex, I still have love for her as the mother of our kids. It will take her time, but she will eventually realize that I'm not coming back. I'm not going to move, as my kids stay here quite a bit and it allows them to attend the same schools they always have. My kids come first, and whatever I need to do to make them happy is what I'll do.

[hopingforbettr]

Nick,

 

I follow that about school and on my time I have a place to stay with the kids in the same town as the ex so they haven't had to change schools. Kids first Always!!!....

 

I don't hate the ex either.... I did have to get her away from me though as she was making life very difficult angry and yelling at me about her problems and at the same time still asking for my help when a car broke down a toilet clogged ect. Acting this way infront of the kids all the time and anything from crying begging me to comeback to the next day threats about going back to court for custody. We did a 50/50 split and I'm happy with that... however....Not a livable situation for me, so I did what I did and simply don't communicate or see the ex unless its done by email.

 

Good Luck to you whatever you do!!!!

[nick66]

Thanks for responding, I appreciate the advice. It's weird that now she's experiencing everything that I had to go through, and I do feel bad for her. We had a very amicable divorce, hell, she lived with me for 5 months after we were divorced. I always did my best to make sure we could remain friends even after the divorce, and this was done for our kids. I have no problem with visitation, money, or anything like that. She just figured out how much she screwed up and wants her family back.

 

Too late for me, sorry. I keep my distance and whenever she gets upset about something I just stop communication right then and there. I'm not married to her anymore, I don't need to listen to her problems or how her life sucks. She made those choices, not me. It sad when she admits that it really bothers her that I'm so happy without her. I did just fine before I met her and I'll do just fine now that we're divorced.

 

Thanks again for the advice, it helps. I hope everything is going well with you.

 

Thanks benga, you're advice always hits home for me.

[benga]

Nick - I am here for you buddy.. For whatever it is worth, I had to go through very similar brain numbing dynamic for close to 2 years (she left and after 2 years wanted to come home and make a go - I wasnt sure). I understand whatever you are going through very well. I dont think she understands that you are divorced...its over... its time to move on.. decisions have been taken.....decree has been signed.... the marriage is over... Strange how in the course of heartbreak, the dumpee becomes a dumper over a period of time - doesnt happen in most scenarios, but this is really interesting. Time to focus on YOU my friend... distance and space from her is what you need right now..

[nick66]

Well, I received a text from my ex about an hour ago asking if she can call me later tonight. I have a feeling she's going to ask if we can try and make things work between us. Last Friday, I ran into her at the grocery store while I was with my kids and I of course spoke to her for a few minutes. I told her to have a good night and went on home from there. I received a text later that night from her saying "it was good seeing you." I said the same, and then she sent an emoticon that was crying. I just said I'm sorry you're hurting, and left it at that.

 

Today she came by to pick up the kids and she looked upset. I asked her if she was okay and she shook her head no, and then started crying. I told her to be strong and left for work, as I was already walking out the door. I feel bad when she's upset, it bothers me because I hate seeing her in pain. I know she didn't care when I was hurting, but I won't be like that towards her.

 

I will admit that I do have times, not very often though, when I think about the possibility of us being a family again. It seems that whenever I do though, all I have to do is think back to all the crap she put me through and those types of thoughts go away. I just don't believe I have it in me to go through all of that again. If I took her back I would feel like she knows she screwed up, and that she knows what she could get away with again. Of course there is benga, who was able to successfully reconcile after years apart.

 

I just don't know, I don't feel like it's the right thing to do. I sometimes wonder if I should do it just for our kids, but is that a good enough reason? I know they would love being a family again, but honestly, I am filled with nothing but stress and anxiety whenever I'm around her. I think my kids are happier around me when they see that I'm a happy person again.

 

benga is right though, time and space away from her is what I feel I need.

 

l'll post again tomorrow to let y'all know what the phone call was about.

[Brotherhood67]

I haven't joined you guys of the "ex-husband club" but I really could...

 

It's incredible how you support each other, I'm really happy to see your posts, it gives me strength each time...

 

I agree with you Nick, taking her back would be like writing her a blank check about doing what she wants and making you go through another round of cr@p. She is probably alone, confused, even sad but I do not think you should lose ground to her. She simply doesn't deserve it. And you don't deserve a woman who makes you feel nervous, even for your kids. And furthermore, a stressed-out dad, for whatever reason and especially because of his wife's behaviour is de facto a bad father. Children feel this.

 

No, you need to find a woman who makes you happy and who respects you and your kids and will allow you to fund a new family.

[lostandhurt]

Nick,

I have come to know that you are a good caring man and that is part of the problem for many of us that find ourselves here. I am not saying we shouldn't be good men or care deeply for the ones we love, I am saying we have trouble turning it off when we should. No matter how much we have been put through we still feel the urge to be there for them even if it is to our own detriment.

 

You loved the woman she used to be but she is no longer that woman and it is that plain and simple. This is why you don't trust her and this is what keeps you at arms length from her. From what you have written I haven't seen any type of effort on her part to figure out why she did what she did not once but twice to you and your family. Perhaps one day in the distant future after she has gotten some therapy and come to know the why's for her actions you could consider some sort of relationship with her.

 

For right now you are smart to set boundaries and continue to make your life what you want it to be. I think you know that there is a very good chance that if you did take her back in time she would become comfortable and fall right back into her old ways.

 

I truly believe that IF it was to happen more time would need to pass and it would have to be wanted by both parties equally. Benga can attest to the fact that his marriage isn't like it once was as to much stuff had happened but they are slowly finding their way to somewhere even better.

 

No matter what you choose we will support and help you every step of the way.

 

Lost

[nick66]

Thanks brotherhood and lost for replying, as always, it helps reading it.

 

Well, it's weird how the dynamics of our "relationship" have changed since the divorce. Towards the end of our marriage I was so worried about upsetting her, or doing anything that might make her mad at me, that I would immediately do whatever I thought I should do to make her happy.

 

Last night when I was leaving work early, she texted me and asked if I was busy. I replied that I was driving home, and she asked "why are you leaving early?" My response? I feel like it. Nothing more. She then texted back "I won't bother you then." I didn't reply, just drove home.

 

I had been home for about 20 minutes when she sent me a text asking me if I made it home okay. I replied yes. She then called like she said she would and we just basically talked about the kids and everyday stuff. I knew she wanted to talk about us, but I didn't bring it up. She eventually started talking about us, but broke down crying and said she had to go. You see, in the past I would have been asking what's wrong, please talk, etc., but I just said okay and hung up with her.

 

She then sent me a text later that night saying how she would do anything to have her old life back, and how sorry she was about everything. I was asleep when she sent it and about 20 minutes later she had sent another one saying forget about the previous text. That's how she operates, she gets mad when she doesn't get a response that she likes. Is that considered passive-aggressive? I woke up this morning, saw the text, and simply responded that this type of conversation should be done in person, not through text messages.

 

She sent me a text while I was driving to work today saying that we don't need to talk, that I seem happier without her. She talked about how she ruined everything, everything we had built together, and all the dreams we had. She said she knows how bad she hurt me, and that hopefully it won't ruin my next relationship. She seems to be saying all of the right things as far as she's sorry for everything, but for me they're just words. I look at what life would be like if I said let's try again, and I don't know if anything would change.

 

She could quit her job, go to counselling, whatever, but I'm not sure it's enough. I just got pushed past the point of no return, and I don't see a way back.

 

Question for benga, did you fall out of love with you wife while y'all were separated?

 

For me that's a big one, I'm just not in love with her anymore. I've come so far since the beginning of all of this. I can have these conversations with her and I don't become emotional at all. I can have thoughts about the past now and they just come and go and I move on without giving them a second thought.

 

I've thought about what's best for my kids though, is it better for them to try again with their mother? I think that I'm happier now, and that they've adjusted well to everything, so maybe not.

[waffle]

(yeah, I know I said I would shut up . . . )

 

She then sent me a text later that night saying how she would do anything to have her old life back, and how sorry she was about everything. I was asleep when she sent it and about 20 minutes later she had sent another one saying forget about the previous text. That's how she operates, she gets mad when she doesn't get a response that she likes. Is that considered passive-aggressive? I woke up this morning, saw the text, and simply responded that this type of conversation should be done in person, not through text messages.

Who cares if this is passive-aggressive or not? Why does that even matter anymore?

 

Let me tell you a little something about women. When a woman hears/reads: "this type of conversation should be done in person, not through text messages", what she hears is: "he wants to talk to me in person about getting back together."

[nick66]

(yeah, I know I said I would shut up . . . )

 

 

Who cares if this is passive-aggressive or not? Why does that even matter anymore?

 

Let me tell you a little something about women. When a woman hears/reads: "this type of conversation should be done in person, not through text messages", what she hears is: "he wants to talk to me in person about getting back together."

 

Well, for me it means I don't want to have to type out long messages when it's easier to talk in person. I would rather talk to someone than text, maybe at 47 I'm just old.

[waffle]

Well, for me it means I don't want to have to type out long messages when it's easier to talk in person. I would rather talk to someone than text . . .

Talk about what, exactly? I agree with everyone else here, you need to quit engaging her.

[nick66]

Talk about what, exactly? I agree with everyone else here, you need to quit engaging her.

 

I know, I know. I've tried being nice about everything, telling her that we're done, that I'm not in love with her anymore and that I'm happy with my life now. She is now three weeks into deciding that she wants me back, but again, I've explained to her that I'm done. Although she hurt me, I don't want to be an ass to her and hurt her more than she already is. We've been able to be good friends up until this point, but I think I need to just completely distance myself from her unless it has to do with our kids. She just can't handle seeing me, she just breaks down crying whenever she does.

 

I worry about her though and some of the stuff she says. I believe she's in a major depression and I don't like seeing her like that. I know that most divorced couples hate each other, but I genuinely care about her.

[Brotherhood67]

Let me tell you a little something about women. When a woman hears/reads: "this type of conversation should be done in person, not through text messages", what she hears is: "he wants to talk to me in person about getting back together."

 

I agree with you. And when you ex-wife of 8 years tells you "I would have preferred to break up with you in person but I send you an e-mail instead (LDR). I still care immensely about you, I want you in my life, etc." and she leaves and bangs another dude in the meantime while being furious when she learns that you have sex with another woman after divorce is pronounced, what is in her mind ?

 

It's really strange because we are in NC since 3 months but everytime I asked her to speak with her she always brought this "I don't want to get back together with you" when, in reality, I never asked ! It still puzzles me...

 

It's like as if people do interpret things just the way they want to interpret it. So I agree with Waffle's statement about the way she is interpreting your behaviour....

[lostandhurt]

Nick may not love her or be in love with her but he still cares for her and that is why he is still talking to her. They have children together and he would like to be at least friendly towards each other.

Yes he could tell her go F off but in the long run it would cause more damage.

 

BTW texting this kind of stuff is for people that want to say things they can't or won't say in person. I just dealt with this 6 months ago. Talking in voice or in person is a conversation, texting is not and this kind of stuff is far to important for words on a screen.

 

It is easy to simply say stop talking to her Nick but realizing he is torn between wanting to be free of her and everything she represents and the image of the woman he loved so deeply for many many years is what is important here.

 

Lost

[waffle]

I agree with you. And when you ex-wife of 8 years tells you "I would have preferred to break up with you in person but I send you an e-mail instead (LDR). I still care immensely about you, I want you in my life, etc." and she leaves and bangs another dude in the meantime while being furious when she learns that you have sex with another woman after divorce is pronounced, what is in her mind ?

That, my friend, is what's known as a double-standard. In her mind, SHE can go off and do whoever and whatever she wants, but don't you dare even think about it because you're to be devoted to her for the rest of your days. That's why she dangles the "I still care immensely about you, want you in my life" carrot in front of your nose, is to keep you hooked. To give you hope and therefore keep you on the line, waiting. I believe it's an ego thing, not a love thing. Both genders participate in this, and unfortunately it has an amazing success rate.

[waffle]

Nick may not love her or be in love with her but he still cares for her and that is why he is still talking to her. They have children together and he would like to be at least friendly towards each other.

Yes he could tell her go F off but in the long run it would cause more damage.

No one is suggesting he swear at her. But when I see the words "friendly towards EACH OTHER" that suggests a two-way friendship, that involves BOTH of them having a similar goal and making an effort towards that goal. The fact is his xWife isn't capable of being his friend right now. Nick may very well be in that frame of mind, but his xWife--from what he's telling us here--is not mentally stable enough to participate in a friendship. And if one of the two parties in the "friendship" isn't capable of being a "friend" then all the good intentions in the world on his part aren't going to change anything.

 

It is easy to simply say stop talking to her Nick but realizing he is torn between wanting to be free of her and everything she represents and the image of the woman he loved so deeply for many many years is what is important here.

OK, but what is the end result here? Does he want the texts and phone calls and tears to stop, or does he want it to continue?

 

Nick, if you want it to continue, then keep doing exactly what you're doing. Keep "trying to be nice" and "explaining" yourself (she likely interprets this as weak and indecisive, which encourages her to continue manipulating you). Keep sending mixed messages like "we'll have to talk about this in person" because phrases like that tell her, "I will continue to participate in your game-playing as long as you want. Please feel free to manipulate me to your heart's content." Keep stressing about HER feelings and HER depression and trying to make things better for HER--I actually looked for my copy of "Co-Dependent No More" last night and I can't find it! Keep doing all these things and I promise she will continue her current behavior. Now if you want this to stop, that's a different story . . . you'll have to be direct with her with your words AND ACTIONS. Don't engage her about anything involving you two as a couple because that ship has sailed. If she wants to update you on when parent-teacher conferences are, or when the next sporting event is that one of your kids is playing in, then that's different. Those don't need to be hours-long conversations and they shouldn't be ending in tears. Keep it brief: "the soccer game is next Saturday at such-and-such a place? OK, thanks and I'll write it on my calendar. See you there. Bye."

 

I know, I know. I've tried being nice about everything, telling her that we're done, that I'm not in love with her anymore and that I'm happy with my life now. She is now three weeks into deciding that she wants me back, but again, I've explained to her that I'm done. Although she hurt me, I don't want to be an ass to her and hurt her more than she already is. We've been able to be good friends up until this point, but I think I need to just completely distance myself from her unless it has to do with our kids. She just can't handle seeing me, she just breaks down crying whenever she does.

 

I worry about her though and some of the stuff she says. I believe she's in a major depression and I don't like seeing her like that.

Read my above paragraph again. Particularly the part about co-dependency. Consider buying the book. It helped me tremendously. I still refer to it when needed.

 

I know that most divorced couples hate each other, but I genuinely care about her.

First, no, MOST divorced couples do not hate each other. Second, your divorce is not any better than anyone else's here and your post-D relationship is not more special and therefore we couldn't possibly understand. A divorce is a divorce, and you are no longer married. End of story. Your role now is to co-parent (hopefully on a cordial basis, if she can stop crying long enough).

 

 

Sorry for not leaving when promised, but clearly you gentlemen need the female perspective here.

[Brotherhood67]

That, my friend, is what's known as a double-standard. In her mind, SHE can go off and do whoever and whatever she wants, but don't you dare even think about it because you're to be devoted to her for the rest of your days. That's why she dangles the "I still care immensely about you, want you in my life" carrot in front of your nose, is to keep you hooked. To give you hope and therefore keep you on the line, waiting. I believe it's an ego thing, not a love thing. Both genders participate in this, and unfortunately it has an amazing success rate.

 

Yep it worked for probably a lot of time with me, until I violently told her to shove it up hard.

 

Miraculously, she cried, cried, cried hard and then applied NC like a pro. Yeah well, she really loved me. Probably during a month or two of honeymoon phase ^-^

 

But it's Incredible how much better I felt after that lol