caro33

Sounds fine, just take it easy hope, it will be okay as long as you are calm and know when to draw the conversation to a close. You can always come back to this issue another time. I have to head off now, but good luck

Hope I'm not sure what to say right now, I would love to help but I've kind of come to the end of what I can advise here re whether or not you are justified. IF: (a) you are scared of mentioning it because he might break up with you for making life too hard too often, AND (b) you don't know anything about a solid rally booking yet anyway, then why don't you leave it? Make a bet with yourself to hold off another week maybe. Make a promise to yourself to prove him wrong with his "there's something every week" statement. You can always discuss this later you know, why don't you put the relationship as a whole first and deal with the rally concern in a little while? But if you are going to leave this for now, try and forget about it. Really. This stress cannot be good for you! You will get sick, you will run yourself down and not be able to enjoy the good times! The only other option I have is a disingenous question about whether he's be around at such and such a date in March because you were thinking you might have a weekend away together or something. Then see what he says. You might get him to admit he's going to the March one at least, and that gives you more solid proof that you might need to discuss this soon and/or book flights. BUT if that's the case, have some thinking time before you discuss this any further with him!

Well good on you for not giving in to your need to force the issue, yes, wait until you get the chance to say this right and gauge his reaction face-to-face. This seems like a fragile time for the relationship so you need to treat any potential conflict extremely carefully. I wouldn't think having some time off work would be a problem if it's a week or less and you let them know up front. I wouldn't tell them what it's for though. So you don't know which rally it is? Have you discussed this at all with him or have you just assumed he's going to one? I think I was under the impression you had already discussed this on some level.

You do realise what people are saying then Luke - these are choices YOU have made? You chose a job that wouldn't pay enough to get you on your own two feet. You also chose to let your mother have the degree of control over your life that she has had to date, which is what I meant above by "the situation with your mother". The living under her roof and the having her as a Significant Other are also NOT the same thing. These are at least two choices you have actively made, and to change the situation you need to change your perspective and your priorities. What are your highest priorities at the moment?

To be honest with you Luke, I thought the same thing a while ago, when I asked you about therapy on your virginity thread. I certainly don't know if it's a "disorder" and am not commenting on that aspect, but I do wonder if you might see your identification with this description as assisting you in your search for answers. Re your various coloured books and highly regulated approach - do you find this helps you place order on things effectively, or does it still feel a bit confusing and out of control sometimes? I suppose my suggestion would be that if this gets too much it might be a really good idea to chat with someone in person who can better provide you with tools to self-regulate, as well as to socialise and place some "bigger picture" on your environment. It's highly likely that these personality traits of yours are exactly what's keeping you in your situation with your mother in some way, and identifying what your specific needs are in light of your own traits might be more helpful than receiving views from people like myself who are struggling to identify with you. Not that I am saying I am unwilling to engage, I certainly am. I just wonder how much insight we can provide you, or how much impetus we can provide for you to change, if we don't share in any way your fundamental outlook on life.

Thanks Goblin. Yes I know that looks don't count for much when it comes down to it, and I am also not bad looking if I am honest about it. My jealousy is wildly irrational and is really just my fear and insecurity finding a way to assert itself. Oh well, we push on eh.

What made you pick this personality disorder? Have you been told this before or diagnosed with this or something similar?

That's true too. The women are always the smart ones who are "above" such base activity. Poor wives

Your Green Book system has me gobsmacked. You should get into law enforcement of some type. I work in regulation and I have never seen anything like it. Just out of interest, if you broke all your Green Book laws to their maximum, what happens?

I think that yes, it varies, but there is also a difference between women with children and women without. I don't have children, but my friends who have them have tended toward losing their sex life for some time after having kids. They are just exhausted all the time, and don't have any time for themselves. These aspects of their lives mean they are less likely to want to have sex. One friend also told me that her urges for her husband just took a back seat to her need to bond with her daughter. Now my husband has a friend who had children and he and his wife were at it like rabbits whenever they could pretty much directly after she gave birth, but I tend to think this is the exception rather than the rule. Patricia Heaton's role in Raymond was very much as the harried housewife, who had all these obligations and little support. So she's not going to be as sexually riled up as Carrie et al. who get to swan around, wear their Blahniks and hypothesise about sex and relationships. In any event, I think that women's sex drive is deeply tied up in their emotional state: you feel good about yourself, you've had some rest, that makes you more likely to get the horn on, so to speak, than if you feel fat and tired. Men are better able to have sex without the intricate personal musings, and seem to have less physical hangups on the whole. So women who feel busy and unsupported/unappreciated are perhaps generally less likely to want to get it on than a man who feels the same way.

I'm not sure how jealous I am compared to others, I guess maybe I am a jealous person. I am only really jealous about physical looks. I hate the way I look and wish I was Salma Hayek. I also wish I was Charlize Theron, Lucy Liu and Angelina Jolie, so you can see I have some issues picking a "type" to covet. I am kind of serious. My jealousy about my husband's ex is through the roof - she's all tall and athletic and there have been internet threads about how hot she is. I can't seem to move past it, and think it's a rampant jealousy/self-hatred thing I've got going on.

Who broke up with who? Sometimes you just can't stay friends with people who you loved, at least not until you are actually at the point where it doesn't matter anymore. It sounds like you are both hurting, not that he doesn't care. If you are still in love with him but he wants space it probably worth taking it even if you don't understand his motivations. You are not likely to be able to get past this if there is constant updates or interaction. Perhaps that's what he's thinking also.

It's not pathetic at all, don't worry. Back yourself hope, you need to try and build more self-confidence. You are not thinking anything others wouldn't think - you have already had most of us saying we understand why you wouldn't like this. Now I am not saying you THREATEN to break up. This is not a game plan in the sense of bluffing to get a response. That was merely one of my options for you based on how strongly you feel about this. If you aren't prepared to follow through on something you say, by all means, do NOT say it. You have to be able to live with whatever the consequences are for your words and actions. You are going to be nervous, it's par for the course with these emotional issus, and you have also built this up a fair bit by now. But my core advice, as usual, is to do whatever you can to chill out and work out your own boundaries so you can be more confident in how you project yourself and communicate to your boyfriend. If you are sure in yourself what's fair and reasonable from your perspective, you will be calmer, more patient and better able to have a calm conversation. He might also understand you better.

My statement about building resentment was more about tone and choice of words maybe, together with the degree of control you are trying to exert. Bad "You shouldn't want to go to this without me". "You shouldn't be able to go without me". "I can't trust you when you are away from me" (I know you wouldn't say this, but it may well be the total message you send him based on your words and actions). Better "I was keen to get to know this rally thing a bit better, I thought it might be a good chance to share something you love with you. I had a look at the website "xxx"...[have conversation about what really happens etc, as I mentioned above]...Maybe I am overreacting, but that makes me really uncomfortable. I guess I don't like you being in that environment." "Do you think I might come along? Even just for the end, that might be good" "Well it's up to you, but I am not keen on you going. I don't think it sets a good standard for our relationship and I will be worried about things". If you do feel strongly enough, you might even say "Your need to go to this doesn't sit with my view of where we should be going in our lives. You are free to go, but you need to understand that you doing this is causing me to re-evaluate our relationship. This is not where I want to be." ---- I don't like the last ones but I do think they're better than the bad ones up top.

If that's all you say, it seems okay. Just don't get too strident or demanding if you can help it. I'm not sure I agree that the only way you get a feel for the event is to go yourself, because we are coming back to that fundamental issue with you - you really need to trust him to some degree. Why not get HIS take on the thing? fact is, that matters more than your take anyway. If he doesn't want to cheat there is no problem. I think you have your own definition of "non-harmless" that it is your job to make clear to him.

I don't personally agree with this in principle, but I do see where you are coming from. In my relationship I am used to being wanted when he goes places. In my previous relationships I was shut out, and sometimes for my ex to go to things that made me feel about as bad as you feel about this rally. So I get it. Thing is, being in a relationship doesn't mean one necessarily gives up the "harmless" things one did when single. Not allowing your SO the time they need to recharge and do their own thing is a worrying precedent to set. It's not sustainable. This position you are suggesting you might take will breed resentment. If YOU believe that your standard as above is what you want, then okay. But if it's just a way of trying to assert control, I think you should look at the reality of how much control you can ever assert (which is to say, you can never protect against cheating) and also address the side-effects of asserting this control. I would not say to him that he can't go to this without you. I would say that it made me uncomfortable, and see how he describes what HE does when he's there. I might threaten to go to elicit a reaction, but I would not go if he did not want me to go. I would just be clear about what I expected of him when he's there. I might also communicate disappoinment, it's your prerogative to do that, but don't go all school teacher on him. You are supposed to be adults, making your own decisions. Part of your decision is if this is good enough for you or not. So to sum up this and my other post, I would concentrate more effort on trying to discover how "harmless" this thing is. I would make it clear that it would need to be good harmless fun by MY standards for me to be okay with things. I would then let him make up his mind and be prepared to live with the consequences.

My own personal reaction is that I would hate this situation, but I would also look to what happened the previous year, and remember everything was okay after that. What I would do, probably, is ask him gently about the rally and be interested in what happens. I would say that I checked out the websites and had been surprised about some of the stuff I saw. I would ask him, once again, like a calm friend type question, not jealous girlfriend, "how much of that stuff really goes on?" If he just laughed and said he hated it and paid no attention, and/or if he said it was really only in some areas that he tended not to frequent, I would probably feel a lot better. I would probably just ask some more targetted questions and then have a think about it. If we had had major arguments and I was worried about smothering him, I probably would not say anything more. Actually, I might offer to meet him at some point there, say "hey it would be fun!" and see his response. If he acted shady I would go with the next para's option... If, on the other hand, he said it was everywhere, and that the girls were "fun", I would probably be worried about what type of person he was and his level of commitment. Thing is, I would probably have known this about him to start with. It wouldn't come as a shock to me now, but I might have quietly been hoping he would change. I would ask more targetted questions about if he had ever been with one of those women before; I would ask what kind of "fun" he'd had when single. I might ask him if he thought he needed to behave differently now he is not single. If I was starting to get really worried, I might even put my foot down and remind him of my stance on getting close to other women. That I wouldn't tolerate it. But that's as much as one can do, hope. Flying down there to police him will not necessarily make you feel any better.

Hiya hope, so where are you at right now? Looks like you've been going through some circular arguments internally - to mention or not to mention. The others are right, but we keep going through this stuff with you and I think the "you need your own standards" issue seems to be a problem. Sweetheart, very few of us are solid and clear about our standards from Day 1. You create your internal standards over time, and generally based on such ephemeral things as "it feels bad if THIS happens, I don't like that". You are not likely to have some epiphany based on something one of us has said, like "oh YES! THAT"S how I'm supposed to feel" - it'll always be a more complex issue. I know that even at my age I still vacillate on whether one particular action my husband does is "bad enough" to react: do I forgive and forget a minor transgression, or is it a symptom of a more fundamental standard being bent out of shape? I have found that the only thing that works for me is to take some time, to try and be responsible for not damaging the relationship by letting off steam before I've really tested my feelings. That sounds a bit like what you're trying here on ENA, but you're getting stuck on the "SHOULD I do this" aspect. For me, I let the initial reaction wash over me, I then list to myself the various interpretations and I try all explanations on for size. I am a lister, as is probably obvious, but I tend to think this works. You get it all out and then evaluate as objectively as possible. I generally start to see that I am overreacting, then I think "okay, I'll let myself feel grumpy just a bit longer if I must, but I won't show how I feel and I will let it pass". And that's it. But if that same thing happens again, or even more times than just once more, I will think that maybe I should say something after all. If I do have to say something, I then have that face-to-face calm chat that explains how I am reacting to things and let's him know the effect of whatever he's doing. Most of the time he had no idea what he was doing, and he either explains it to me and I accept it because it's not what I thought, or he says "sorry! I had no idea!" and he stops what he was doing. And that's it, done. At least most of the time. Through all of this, neither of us was right or wrong, and I can promise you that if I polled everyone I know, I would have had some people agreeing with me and some vigorously disputing my reaction. It's never that cut and dried unless we're talking overt things like abuse, active betrayals etc. People have their own take on things, and there are also often various interpretations of others' behaviour. So what we keep saying to you is that only you know how much a big deal this, or any other issue is, to you. There is a "I'm going to go mad, I can't deal with this" level of frustration and fear which, if it prevails no matter what you do to talk yourself out of it, you probably need to manage by telling your feelings to your guy. Set your standards and define your boundaries. Then there's a "I think I'm overreacting, maybe I can find a way to see this differently" approach that can work once the initial reaction has worn off and you are starting to think that you can probably trust him and not to worry. But the thing is, like we have said, if you are at the point of saying something, you must be strategic in how you say it. Stick to your standards, be clear and upfront. Be fair and try to be generous in your assessments of his character - you are supposed to love him after all. Be open to compromise where that fits your core criteria. Give him the respect and give yourself the respect enough to deal with this in person, and at a time that you are both best able to have the conversation. The telephone is dangerous for this.

Luke what is a timer? From the post where you mention it it sounded like she was timing your porn watching and coming in to check if time was up or you fiddled with the timer. I must have misunderstood, surely. You mean your internal timer? She kept distracting you? Batya is right, this just doesn't sound like the behaviour of a 30 year old man. You seem to have allowed her to ride roughshod all over your adult needs as though you are still a child. I agree that for this to be the case you must want it on some level, or you did want it. Did you used to be okay with her interference and now you are starting to want something else? That's fair enough, but if you want to break free to some degree you do need to mention this to her. Something like "Mum, I appreciate all you do for me and I don't want to shut you out, but I feel that I need to establish some boundaries with you. Can you please limit your visits to my bedroom, and can you please knock before you enter?" This is obviously my example, say whatever it is you need from her. Now when we say SO on this forum, as I understand it we mean "Significant Other". I assume you know this, but it just seems really odd that you think you can use it for your mother. In most people's minds it would mean their partner, their girlfriend/boyfriend. If you really mean that your relationship with your mother stands in the place of having an intimate relationship then no wonder you are struggling to make a real connection with another woman. I can't see how this home situation - if it remains unchanged - will ever allow for you to evolve into independence or a mature adult relationship with a woman.

It certainly sounds like you guys need to short circuit some of the pain here and find a way to start again. I realise this will not resolve anything in itself, but can you guys take a break? Like a work love-in, a planning conference somewhere distant. It just sounds like you two need to reconnect, and if you could both see clear to taking a couple of days to relax, unwind and discuss your plans and dreams maybe it will help you both be able to stand together as a team when life keeps coming at you. I see what you are saying about being honest with her parents. I am not advocating dishonesty, but perhaps you are pushing for "all at once" in an honesty sense here, and it might just make an already difficult situation more difficult. I wonder if you and your fiancee can't find a way to strategise around how to bring her parents along for the ride in a way that taps into their best, rather than their worst, qualities. I could be being naive here, but I would suggest you have a think about some key issues that you would like to work with your fiancee to resolve, and then put it to her that you'd love her input and advice about how to achieve these things. Be clear that you won't just sweep stuff under the rug with her parents but you understand it's a thorny issue for them (you and your life choices that is) and you want to sort out with her how to plan for a happier future with her family involved. And then take that break. Make time on the break for eating, walking, holiday stuff, but also make the time to talk about these matters. What do you think?

Yes, yuck.

Hmmm, I totally get what you are saying but you do need to try and think about this more strategically. Don't work yourself up into a state and sabotage things because you just have to get it off your chest asap. I know it's hard, I do this, but do try and look at this in terms of costs and benefits to your actual goal here, which is to express yourself and have him empathise with your perspective. First, when are you next seeing him in person, and when is the rally? By when do you need to book your flights? Second, how do your phone conversations tend to go when it gets a little..difficult? Does he shut down? Do you push things? What happens? Third, how do you see this conversation going after you make your first point? If he just grunts, what are you likely to say? If there is any chance of the conversation degenerating and you being left less satisfied than you would be in person, then try and keep it face to face. Overall though, I think that if there is no dire need to have the conversation over the phone, then don't. (Not unless it's the only way to appear breezy. Because that is a tactic you could try - say "hey, I'm keen to see what you do, and I've already booked a flight!" Smiley, happy, and disingenuous. But that can backfire if he says 'no' and then you come out with your real concerns.) Edit: oh, and NO TEXTING and NO EMAILS! Phone call is definitely better than these options.

Good for you girl. I think this all sounds reasonable and fair. And yeah, in person if you can .

What else did he say - what makes this relationship different, is it him, you or a combination?

Thanks for responding hope, I think that's great. It does sound like he loves you very much, and he is trying to do right by you. Is that a fair assessment? Do you think that he might just be a bit thoughtless sometimes and need a clear message sent about something? I think many relationships are like this. What do you think his values are re commitment and fidelity? Does he ever say things that make you worry, like almost seeming impressed with other people getting away with bad behaviour, that kind of thing?