Cherylyn

Ask yourself what type of MIL you would be? Ask yourself that as a DIL, how would you want to be treated? Those are your answers and if MIL isn't the harmonious type nor uses common sense regarding her mouth and her behavior, she won't change for you. It's up to you to learn to adapt and do whatever it takes to make it fair to yourself if she continues to treat you rudely whether you're with her or not. This is how it is often times when it comes to relatives or in-laws. You can't change them. Therefore, you have to contort yourself in order to feel safe, secure and comfortable. The less you encounter complicated people, the better you'll feel and more freedom and choices you'll have with your life. You ought to try it. It works wonders. Boundaries will save you.

He doesn't sound stable which would make me feel unsteady and nervous. I'm not you but if it were me, I'd let him go so he can take the longest break his heart desires. You deserve better. Don't play games with men. Make sure they're on solid footing and secure because this mindset will make you feel secure, too.

I agree, I too would never tell my husband how often to see his (local) mother nor would I withhold her grandchildren from seeing her. However, eventually, if MIL doesn't watch her mouth towards her DIL, naturally and usually the husband will be in alliance with his wife and many times, the husband, wife and grandchildren are a package deal. Sure, everyone can see or be with each other separately but it doesn't automatically happen all the time if it's unavoidable since many social settings tend to be in groups. Also, sometimes there's the scenario from the husband saying to his mother: "Either treat my wife with respect or you'll see less of me and / or us as a whole. Treat my wife with respect if you love ME, your son and treat the mother of YOUR grandchildren with respect." If MIL fails to grasp this concept nor put it into practice, it won't end well. ☹️ I agree, it works both ways. Both parties should treat each other with respect and kindness. The emphasis is on the word: BOTH. You can't have one person acting like a spoiled brat by saying whatever they want while the other person (for example DIL) remains timid, subservient, silent, kowtows all the time, endlessly acquiesces and capitulates. I know. I've tried going that route and there comes a point in time when one says, "Enough and no more." The problem with that is after MIL gets her way all the time and no one is ever brave enough to decline albeit politely, it's met with MIL's disdain. Oh well. 🙄 If MIL is unaccustomed to rejection, she is in for a rude awakening. Sometimes it takes declination in order to enforce healthy boundaries. Spoiled people don't always get what they want when they want. They don't handle it well but it's not your problem. If anything, you protect yourself because you are in the driver's seat, not they. You have every right to control your own life. It may take you years of practice to hone this skill but you'll get there! Everyone was young and naive once upon a time. You'll wise up. 😉 A person who isn't smart will never see the connection between bad behavior and harsh consequences. All they see is "Wow, that person had the nerve to say, "no" to me and I don't approve!" If this is the case, tough luck. I'm just telling you how this scenario can unfold IF MIL continues on her same track and allows her mouth to fly off any way she darn well pleases. You, as the future DIL can either take it or leave it. This is why I say you should always realize you have rights, you have boundaries in your back pocket so use it. Sure, remain well mannered and respectful with witnesses abound whenever you're in MIL's presence but it doesn't mean you should make yourself vulnerable to her attacks if it's 1:1, on the phone (heaven forbid electronic correspondence such as phone/text/emails) and simply make yourself unavailable. She will not change for you. It's your decision to alter the dynamic in your favor. You are the one who has to change your tack. You are new to this game. No sense getting frustrated. Don't get hurt nor offended. Simply change your trajectory. Become calculating and shrewd yet peaceful and polite. It's your recipe for success when dealing with MIL. Take it from someone who was in your shoes many times before and unfortunately, still am to this day. Never give MIL the benefit of the doubt because if you do, you'll be sorely disappointed and frustrated. Establish healthy boundaries for life. It will save you unnecessary grief and angst. Listen to your intuition and instincts because they're always right. Play your cards smart. I agree, don't start your marriage on the wrong foot but you have to work with what you've got if the character you're dealing with is difficult and complex or complicated. Learn to adapt in your favor. And, be careful. If you think a conversation with your MIL or her son conveying your message to MIL will change your relationship with her, don't have great expectations or high hopes otherwise you'll be sorely disappointed. Often times, she will become defensive, gaslight or both. It's nothing I hadn't experienced before. Get ready. 😒 Learn to disengage and maneuver yourself so you are left unscathed. I've done it and if it works for me, it should work for you, too. Granted, it requires thinking and planning on your part but it pays off in the long run. The less you have to deal with MIL, the better off you'll be. Keep a safe distance. This doesn't only apply to your MIL either. This applies to people the world over. Either both parties are compatible, mutually very respectful and considerate or it won't work, period. There's no way around it. The only work around is establishing boundaries in order to protect yourself. I understand the exclusion part, too. It happened to me. You can either yield on RARE occasions in order to keep the peace or her son has to speak up by including you. While it keeps the peace briefly, the problem is that MIL will grow increasingly demanding. If you give an inch, they'll (she'll) take a mile. In other words, she'll take advantage by increasing her demands in all capacities in order to make you the outsider. This is why it gets ugly before it might get better. Her son needs to either speak up by having your back or MIL's abuse towards you will continue. Other alternatives would be less interactions in all forms whether electronically or in person. You say that you don't want it to affect her son nor her grandchildren. Well, yes, it does because any type of discord impacts everyone eventually.

You can't. Once trust is gone, it is irrevocably broken.

Love bombing is ingratiating yourself to someone with flattery, compliments, charm and pretentiousness in order to get what you want out of them whether it's favors, labor, help or anything which will benefit you in any capacity. Love bombing is temporary. Once the perpetrator (or narcissist / malignant narcissist) gets what they want from you, love bombing stops until their next quest to get what they want out of you. You're merely their utility and the only purpose of love bombing is to exploit you. Love bombing is fake and insincere so beware. Never fall for those old tricks otherwise you're being played for a fool.

Excitement gets boring eventually. Emotional bond, empathy, placing yourself in other people's shoes, emotional intelligence and a true partnership of that caliber trumps is most enduring and trumps all else IMHO.

I hate to tell you this but it's more prevalent than on TV, movies, jokes, sarcasm, stereotypes and the like. ☹️ As for OP @niceknowingyou45 the MIL situation can get dicey especially if MIL gets frustrated because now she must share her son with her DIL which is a scenario not all that uncommon. In the past, MIL had more say and sway and now, her son must consider his wife (or girlfriend / fiancee) and MIL isn't accustomed to "conferring" with anyone other than her son and herself. It was two and now there's three which isn't always welcomed. This is why I say that MIL needs to tread lightly and be very careful with her choice of words because if she isn't, DIL won't necessarily say anything. DIL knows she can pull back. Unfortunately, much to MIL's detriment, this means less access to her son because naturally he will prioritize his marriage or relationship over his mother. It's a sad fact of life and very universal. Less access means less contact, less seeing each other between mother and son, less communication and less everything across the board. These are the harsh consequences for MIL saying something condescending to her DIL. Yes, it's a passive aggressive move but to be expected because what goes around comes around. What does she expect? She had it coming. 🙄 MIL needs to take a backseat. Be nice? Then there's mutual cohesiveness, cooperation and harmony. Say something rude, snide and unkind? Then be prepared for her son to drift apart and possibly fade away from his mother's life. In many cases, her son will be his wife's staunchest ally. He will protect her. He may not always defend her but at least he will enforce strict boundaries with his mother much to her dismay. 😒 In that regard, it's a form of defending his wife's honor. Another thing to consider is for MIL to watch her mouth and watch what she says otherwise her grandchildren will be out of the picture. This applies to anyone family or no family. Behave honorably and all is well. Infuriate others and you'll alienate them very quickly. As for OP @niceknowingyou45, be prepared because once you sense MIL has a mouth and will say anything she pleases without caring how you feel, you can either continue making yourself vulnerable as her verbal punching bag or make yourself unavailable to her. Boundaries reign supreme. 👍 🤗

MIL isn't Queen Bee. No one is but there needs to be mutual respect and kind words exchanged without the elder ~ normally the MIL talking down in a condescending manner to the DIL just because she is the mother of her son. Unfortunately, many times, just because the MIL is older and she is the mother of her son whom she now must share with her DIL, she can and often times will throw her weight around and let her DIL "know her place" in the family. It's nothing I hadn't heard before. 🙄 😒 It's not about competition. It's about the DIL often times having to yield to her MIL just because of MIL's senior status in the family but it doesn't mean the MIL has the right to act superior to the DIL and habitually or speak rudely at random whenever it strikes her fancy. This is where the problem lies. 😣 I agree with you regarding financial ties. Often times MIL can be monetarily awfully generous so in that regard, money talks and it's a (hopefully temporary) put up and shut up situation. 😷 There are times when you can't do anything about MIL's chronic "mouth problem." However, DIL can always take the passive aggressive route. If DIL was generous in the past, change the dynamic. Don't be generous anymore whether it was with your kind words, compliments, gestures, labor, help, attention, getting together, socializing, perhaps giving home cooked meals if you reside locally or any outreaches of goodwill and a good heart. All of that comes to a screeching halt. Not that it would teach MIL a lesson to behave honorably but DIL's desire to be nice to MIL is dead. @niceknowingyou45, OP, this is what boundaries are. Live your own life and if your paths must cross, make sure it's down to the bare minimum at best. Boundaries are your safe place. MIL can't give you" air pollution" as long as you make yourself unavailable to her.

Yes, it is most enduring. I guess I like everything and not one without the other. It's about balance for me. To each his / her own. ☺️

A lot of MILs feel as if they're the matriarch of the clan and they are entitled to say whatever they want because they get away with it ~ until a smartened up and fed up DIL says, "No more." Some DILs resort to estrangement. Some DILs will establish strict boundaries which works. The less interfacing and encounters, the better. At least the abuse is not as much. For some DILs, 1:1 conversations with their DILs are awfully risky which I can attest. When witnesses abound, MILs or people in general tend to be more guarded, careful and exercise self control or so I've noticed. In order to protect yourself as much as possible, always make sure there are absolutely NO private conversations with MIL or anyone who is deceitful and untrustworthy. Live and learn. I agree with you @Seraphim . I'm just waiting for MIL to die and then we can have relief! 🤗

That's mostly a question for the MIL. She'd better be nice to her DIL or her son will be MIA (missing in action) for the rest of her life. 😒 It's the natural response. Be nice? Then we're all in and her son is available to his mother. Be condescending towards DIL? MIL is unable to chat with her son often and won't see her son for the majority of every year. These are the harsh consequences for a spoiled brat mouth. MIL: Wave your son good-bye. 🖐️

I would end it.

I agree. Defer to him. I defer to my husband and let him handle HIS mother or say something to her because she'll listen to him more than me. Funny how that works. MIL listens to her son but I'm just hot air. Suits me just fine. Less work for me. 👍 I no longer waste my time and energy on her. I'm rather dismissive. You do the same. Don't do anything and don't say anything. Don't text either! Learn to disengage. Stay out of it and enforce strict boundaries. It's dicey with in-laws but you can survive if you play your cards right and navigate the dynamic shrewdly. You have to be calculating in order to protect yourself and your relationship (someday marriage) otherwise being too close can sorely backfire. Take it from me, use your brain and think ahead. You will be fine as long as you're smart. Also these MILs (if they're smart, that is) will discover that if they're nice to their DIL, they'll have more access to their son and be able to see him more often than not. Be unkind, inconsiderate and disrespectful to DIL? Well, good luck with that. 😖 Mothers won't be able to be with their sons very much and phone calls will greatly decrease to nil. Smart MILs will do the math. Dumb MILs will wonder why she alienated her son and DIL? Note to all mothers: Be very kind and respectful towards your DIL or it won't end well. 🙄 😒 Bye bye son.🖐️

I doubt your feelings will ever change over something over this. You'll always distrust him within the deep recesses of your brain. Your memory will be vivid. Of course, you feel distant and don't want to be around him now that you know his real behavior. He has a Jekkyl 'n Hyde personality. He is two faced. One minute he's a good person and seemingly calm and the next minute there's no telling how he will react when he's infuriated. It's only a matter of time before his next explosive tirade. I agree, throwing a temper tantrum over a pair of shoes is indeed alarming. He's scary if he's nice sometimes and other times displays his rage. 🤬 He does not sound like a keeper. ☹️

It's the package for me. Not only physical attraction but what type of human being is he? Is he careful with his words? Is he kind not just to me but to others? Is he trustworthy? Humble? Sincere? Has a good heart? Considerate? Peaceful? Uncomplicated? Doesn't have bad habits such as gaslighting? Is he neat and clean or a slob? Is he conscientious overall? Is he financially strong? It's everything for me because it's my personal preference. I agree with @Batya33 regarding no tattoos nor body piercings, no disheveled hair, neat haircut, appropriate clothing, etc. I have nothing against other people who do as they will but for me when choosing my husband, it's simply what I preferred. I like a clean cut guy, general overall neat appearance, always clean and tidy. I think of long term life and how a man is to live with. I want a secure, content life together. I realize not everyone is the same and it is fine. It's just the way I am. 🤗

According to your FMIL, the umbilical cord is still attached. She is meddlesome. She wants her son to be a "Mama's Boy." Her implying that you are controlling is a form of gaslighting. She's manipulating the narrative. Establish boundaries. Your fiance and you should have decreased interactions with your FMIL. The less, the better. Decrease in person socializing. Decrease texts or emails. Decrease phone calls or voicemails. Decrease all of it. Decrease all of greatly. Sure, remain respectful and diplomatic at the bare minimum. You can be polite and well mannered yet maintain a cool distance. It's what I do and it's the only thing that works to protect yourself. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. There is no other way. I've tried them all and nothing works as well as boundaries.

I think it's a red flag. I don't like anyone who explodes in anger no matter who it is. 🤬 It's not a matter of self control either. He (or in other cases she) shouldn't have anything to control in the first place. A fiery temper of shouting, yelling, hitting a wall or person, throwing things and displaying a hot temper is indeed alarming. Sure, he can apologize but there's no telling when it will happen again and it will at some point. This is not the end of it. He showed you his true unsavory character during an unguarded moment and now you know the real him which is your sobering reality check. Beware and date him at your own risk. 🥺

My condolences for your loss in your family. I wouldn't feel offended due to Mike's delayed condolence text because he's not considered your friend. He's most likely relegated to less than acquaintance status for you. The less close you are to someone, the less you should expect of them regarding social graces or etiquette. They're not important to you and you're not important to them either. It works both ways. In the future, BEFORE you get together with your friend, confirm that the tag along guy, Mike will not be present as part of socializing that day or evening. Yes, my feelings would be hurt and I'd feel very disrespected to have to share a friend with more people in the mix which is awkward and uncomfortable. I wholeheartedly agree with you. Have boundaries and speak up.

I can't speak for all women but my vote is for smart guy who also happens to be generous, kind, empathetic and a keeper. Most women shop around. With handsome guy, good looks eventually fade and if he's boring, self centered and selfish, run for the hills. I know an in-law who is like that and he's a nightmare to live with. ☹️

Yes, thank you, @Wonderstruck 💗. Unfortunately, I've heard it all. I can sniff a gaslighter from a mile away. 🥺

I'll go against the grain here because I've been in your shoes and unfortunately, I still am. 😒 ☹️ Congratulations on your engagement! 💍 🤗 I hate to tell you this but be prepared for a wild ride as the new DIL and eventually you'll become a seasoned veteran as a DIL just like me. 😉 Long ago, I too deferred to my husband (then fiance) regarding MIL's uncalled for obnoxiously rude comment during a social setting and other times during smaller social settings or 1:1 with me. 😖 Save your breath, energy and time. You can't change MIL (or anyone). You can't fix her. She is who she is because she gets away with it and it works for her. This is what spoiled, entitled people do. They say whatever they want because they can. There are never any punishments nor harsh consequences so they continue doing what they know best which is be their rude selves. Should MIL be confronted to explain herself, you'll hear nothing but gaslighting. (Deflecting, changing the subject so you're perceived as crazy, there's something wrong with YOU, not they, twisting your words, distorting the issue and the same old trickery ad nauseum.) You'll hear lines such as these: I was joking! You're dramatic! You're too sensitive. I wasn't serious. What is wrong with YOU? You took it the wrong way. And, I saved the best for last: My MIL said to me two days ago: "Everyone has foibles including YOU." Sure, I can defer to my husband and he'll explain it's not foibles regarding a past offense by someone else and that it's been ongoing for decades. You can defer to your fiance but it won't change MIL. She'll keep on doing it because she can and she will. You will hear more as this is not the end of it. The only thing you can do is no longer be naive. Live and learn. Know whom you're marrying into. Some people such as your MIL are complex people (narcissists / malignant narcissists) and since she won't change, you're the one who has to change, learn to adapt and most of all, establish your own boundaries. You can't interact with people who lack emotional intelligence because they're dumb as a box of rocks. Boundaries are altering your behavior, altering your dynamics, making yourself less available to MIL as her verbal punching bag, not accepting every opportunity to be together with her and pumping the brakes on being together as much as possible. It's what I do and it's the ONLY thing that works as I've exhausted all avenues. In the future, no more benefits of the doubt. No more phone chats and any interaction should be brief, polite, superficial (talk about the weather), be boring as ______ and keep it short! Take it from me. It's a losing long game. All you can do is control what you can. Never grant permission for MIL to abuse you. Don't make yourself vulnerable for attack. Learn how to protect yourself, keep safe and avoid harm. Perpetrators only abuse you if you allow it. Boundaries reign supreme. With practice, you'll learn how to hone this new boundary skill of yours. This is not the end of your MIL's comments. There are more to come. This is only the tip of the iceberg. 😧😖 You have to put up and shut up or don't be in your MIL's presence as much as possible. The less you engage, the better off you'll be.

Two's company, three's a crowd. This picture is getting awfully crowded. 😒 ☹️ Either she goes or you go. I wouldn't tolerate having a boyfriend or husband who was very chummy with his ex. No way. He won't change. It's your job to change. Either accept your boyfriend's behavior or exit the relationship and be with a man who knows how to behave honorably for himself, for you and knows how to treat you as if you matter. In other words, be with a man who knows how to treat you with respect.

You didn't ruin anything. His aunt's mouth problem caused the estrangement. Had she not said what she said, then family gatherings would've been peaceful. I can relate. Anytime a person is incensed AND there's no remorse nor sincere apology ever forthcoming, naturally a person does not wish to be with the perpetrator. It's a perfectly natural response. Not that I ever exploded in anger but once anyone dispenses obnoxious disrespect to me, my husband and / or sons, I'm done. I don't want to be with him or her permanently. I prefer to feel protected and safe from harm. I no longer make myself vulnerable to attack. I'm risk adverse. This is human nature. The problem is a lot of people test others sorely and call your bluff only for your reactions to backfire whether verbally or in a passive aggressive manner. Either way sends a strong message which requires no translation: Stay far away and / or part ways permanently. It's called establishing boundaries.

If he lives with his parents and either pays reduced rent or lives at their house for free, then he's beholden to them, owes them a lot of favors such as helping them, assistance, family commitments and the like. Nothing is for free. There's always a catch. He's obligated to do their bidding. Until he has complete financial independence, he will have to prioritize his family over you. This is the arrangement. No, you're not selfish. His parents have the advantage because money talks.

Remember this: Friends and money don't mix. Family and money don't mix. What does this mean? It means keep your relations without the subject of money whether loaning, lending, expecting to see your money again, borrowing and the like. Money creates a lot of problems, heated arguments, resentment and bitterness. My relatives, in-laws and friends and I don't have money issues between us. Sure, we give each other gift cards, treat some people to meals on rare occasions and whatnot but we do not ask for money, lend money, pestering for repayment never happens and we have harmony because money is not part of our relationships. Change your dynamics and / or choose your friends wisely because if you do, it will be more peaceful and enduring.