wanger

Thanks for your supportive words Ripples I've read some of your other posts, and all I can say is that it sounds like we are both in the same boat. Although, I feel for you, from my own viewpoint its nice (and somewhat selfish) to know that other people have gone through similar things, and that I'm not weak, mad or a loser for sticking with this for so long. Do you still harbour hopes that you will get back together once she is better? My heart does, but I still have my brain telling me to run away as fast as I can. I was a fixer too, trying to give advice to her, certainly with respect to her problems at work. All she wanted was somene to listen to her and reassure her that they knew that she was having a tough time. The problem for me was that so many of her issues at work would have been solved by her asserting herself a little more. She hates any kind of conflict - in the total 6 years that we were together we had 1 argument - lots of sulks though! The problem for my ex is that she is still in denial. She knows that she is miserable, knows that she has obsessive thoughts and knows that they are destroying her life, but it is still everyone elses fault (usually mine, her folks or her work). She has now moved back to her folks to "de-stress". Now that she has effectivley removed everything in her life that causes any stress she will probablly feel a lot better. This will of course reinforce her belief that all her issues are down to our relationship and her job. until she starts another job or relationship that is. She has also played the martyr for so many years, telling both her parents and her friends what a bad (not perfect = bad) boyfriend I have been, and has even discussed things with some of my friends, telling them that "we are not getting on very well". She never talked to me about it though. Some of the things that I am supposed to have done are simply not true, others are blown wildly out of proportion. It is only, now that I am pulling away and that reality is sinking into her that our time is truly over, that she is now telling people that it wasn't me, but she has believed that it was me for so long that it has changed the way she feels. Now that I know some of the things that have been said, I can see why her mum was hell bent on splitting us up. To be fair to her (my ex) she has done her best with her folks to set things right and explained to them that I was actually a really great guy and that so much of it was down to her. However, she is prone to be fickle and sincerity is def not her middle name. I was her 1st serious relationship (apart from the spanish chap, which was long distance and on and off), and I kind of think that she needs to be kept on her toes for her to keep her passion alive, rather than the secure (and I hope fullfilling) relationship that I used to offer her. Like myself, she does have some self esteem issues and I would like to believe that she feels that there must be something wrong with someone who loves her more than she does herself. The daft thing, for me, is that if my ex was serious about getting help then I would be prepared to take her back and support her. Until then its simply not my problem anymore.

Thanks S&D I've now got to start trying to rebuild my self esteem - its taken quite a battering throughout all this. I'm an only child and quite a shy person anyway, and suspect that I may have clung on so long for fear of being alone. One of mates has always said that I am in love with being in love. I have never really been happy unless I have someone to share my happiness with. My ex is almost the opposite and feels like her wings are clipped when she is in a relationship, although to be fair to her she used tio say that if anyone was going to clip her wings it should be me. I'm going to get some councelling to deal with my need to be in a relationship, as I suspect that leads to a lot of my unhappiness.

Liquidius and reflectionless - Absolutley. S&D, its the only option I have is to let her do her own thing. I have told her how I feel - I am now planning a life without her (well taking each day as it comes), but my heart still misses her. In reality I know that I would be bonkers to even considering giving it another go right now. As per your advice I'm going to do a one sided NC (pretty much what I have been doing over the past few weeks), and let her initiate things. I know that it sounds a little like game playing, and the initial motivation will be to let her know that I am doing fine without her, but with time (and I speak from past experience, and some knowledge of the way my mind works) this will one day become the least important reason. In the meantime, I'll keep my fingers crossed that someone else will come along. She is now being fair and as honest as she can be with me. She admits that she does still love me and sees that we could have a future together, but she needs time to herself to find her own direction and clear her head, and until then does not know whether I will be a part of that. I am going to use this time to do the same. Effectivley she needs to stand on her own 2 feet and not have me propping her up. I can now see that we both need to clear the cobwebs / baggage that built up from our last year together before we split last year. So in the meantime, I'll stay in touch with her, when she wants to call / mail etc, but not initiate anything myself. I've got a few positive things to look forward to, like travelling so I'll try to focus on that. Shidoshi - After I broke it off with her, it was her telling me that she did not know what she wanted. I simply told her that I do love her, but could not carry on in this emotional limbo, and that if she could not make a descision then I would do it for her. Strange, and purely by coincidence June11th was the day we got together, the day we got engaged and the day that I called it off. You are absolutley right about the doormat. Jai - I see what you are saying, but my heart has taken such a battering over the past year that its not sure what it wants anymore, except to put its feet up and take it easy for a while. All - I do miss her very much, but wild horses would not drag me back into a relationship with her right now. I harbour some doubts as to whether I actually do still love her anymore, although my heart sometimes tells me otherwise. The reason that I am having difficulty totally turning my back on this is, putting all emotion aside, that I sincerley believe that she is the one. I have had 3 serious (over 2 years) and quite a few short term relationships in the past, not one of these has come close to the empathy that I feel with this girl. Sometimes we are more like brother and sister than BF and GF. It does also feel a shame to waste the last 6 years of my life by walking away now. Essentially I have the experience to realise that the honeymoon period does not last forever, and that the passion experienced at the beginning of a relationship matures into something less intense but much deeper. She has very little experience of long term relationships, and as that initial passion dwindled she started to ask herself why, and started looking for logical reasons for this (everything must have a logical and rational reason in her mind), so of course she deduced that she was no longer in love with me, so then asked herself why. the best that she could come up with was that I did not do enough housework, and that I was on the comp too much. This is not speculation and does come from the "horses mouth" as it were. Thanks for you advice guys - much appreciated.

Hi. I posted on here last year when my fiancé and I split up after 5 years together (please feel free to search my user name). We got back together around Christmas, and have recently split again. Sorry in advance for the mammoth post. Before we split last year we had become 2 people existing together, without much love, but a lot of emotion, mainly sadness and tension, but no arguments. I had a lot of stress at work and with a very ill father was under a lot of pressure. She was very preoccupied with her own issues and gave me no support; of course I withdrew, we stopped talking and things started to fall apart. She has always been quite self-absorbed and on reflection I think suffered from anxiety and depression. Every night when I got back from work she was either in tears or totally withdrawn. Sometimes they were what I would consider important, but often they were very trivial issues. I used to find myself coming home from work, wanting to relax, but then finding myself sitting down with her to try to talk her down and offer advice. When I needed someone to talk to she was less than forthcoming. I can see now that she was in such a dark place that she did not have any energy to deal with my issues as well as her own, but at the time I felt rejected and withdrew from the relationship. I also very taken for granted as I was dealing with not only my stresses, but also her issues. She has always been very analytical and a 100% certified perfectionist and tends to expect perfection to be delivered, rather than actually working for it. In our earlier days she informed me that you do not need to work at a relationship if it is the right one. To be honest for the 1st 2 years we did not need to work at anything, it all happened so naturally. As time went by things needed attention in our relationship, but rather than talk to me about her concerns she would talk to her friends and family. Of course they have only heard her side of things, and from what I have heard back from them these things are either wildly exaggerated or simply not true. We got back together at the end of last year, and things have been an emotional roller coaster since then. I have done my best to show her that I do love her and that I can be the chap that I was in the early days. However, her moods have swung wildly. Depending upon her mood at that time, I am either the "best boyfriend going" and she is the "luckiest girl on the planet to have a guy like me", or she cannot take it any more and is leaving. Before we split last year, I was told that I was unloving and non-attentive, now I am too smothering. She has had a nightmare at work (mainly caused by her difficulties in asserting herself, and fighting for what she wants). She left her work about a month before leaving me to go and spend some time "in rehab" at her parents. It seems that when she is down, she labels everything in her life as being bad for her, and is unable to find anything positive in her life. She will spend hours and days obsessively thinking about where she has gone wrong in her life, rather than picking herself up and learning from past mistakes. It has been very tough for me, but I do still love her very much, as I have never felt such a close bond with anyone as I do with her. Sometimes it is like we are cut from the same cloth. Although she would never admit it (perfectionist remember) many of the faults that she sees in me are also prevalent in her. She suspects that she is suffering from Obsessive Compulsive disorder, although I do see some elements of Borderline Personality Disorder in there. However, she refuses to get any help, despite a GPs diagnosis of anxiety, and firmly believes that time at home with her parents will sort her out. I sincerely hope that it does, for her sake, but I doubt that it will because, from what she says, her relationship with her mother (a woman with incredibly high expectations) is at the root cause of many of her issues. For example, her little brother, is captain of school and district football and rugby teams, a black belt in karate, straight A's in 4 a'levels, about to study at Cambridge Uni, has saved up over £10k (at 18 years old), but apparently is getting fed up of being told that he should be doing better. Her mother has also been very vocal about us in the past. Since we got back together, many of our friends have commented on how much effort I have been putting into making things better, but they have seen nothing from my ex. This has of course, made me very frustrated and I have put a lot of pressure on her to make an effort. With hindsight, I can see that the harder I have pushed, the more she has pulled away. I have been left feeling very insecure, and have been told by her that I am now too "needy" and that she needs someone stronger. I think it takes quite a lot of strength to put all your own concerns to one side and be a rock for someone else's issues for 5 years. She has also started comparing me to her only other serious boyfriend (a 9 month relationship that split, followed by a further 6 months at a distance – he in Spain, her in the UK). I can really empathise with the "crazy love" story on that "popcorn machine" website, and suspect that where I have put all my issues to one side for her has resulted in her losing respect for me. The ultimate upshot of this is that she has gone back to her parents for an indefinite period to "rehab". She was expecting too feel 100% better, but came back to our house after a week, telling me how much she still loved me, how sorry she was for everything, and how lucky she was to have a guy like me. The next day she told me that she was going back to her folks and did not know if she was coming back. I left it for a couple of days, and phoned her to tell her that I could not do this anymore and that it was over between us and I would be grateful if she could come and pick her stuff up. At first she laughed, then when she realised that I was serious, she started saying things like "you don't love me anymore do you", and "I don't know what to do, and don't know what I want". I told her that she now has one less thing to worry about, to which she replied "I will worry even more now though". The day before she was going to come down and move her stuff out of our house, she phoned to tell me that she had doubts and wanted to leave it all there, but her Mum had talked her out of it. I was not there at the time, but apparently she spent the actual moving out day in tears. I spoke to her mum briefly, and considering in the past year she has done her best to split us up, she told me that my ex had made it clear to her that I was not at the root cause of her problems, and that if when my ex felt stronger (she thinks that my ex is very near to a nervous breakdown) I can go up there for a weekend, or my ex can come to see me. I am suspicious about this, as her mum can be mercenary, and I think is trying to protect her investment in our house (joint ownership), particularly as she was emphasising how important it is that we remain friends. Since then she has phoned a couple of times to tell me that she simply does not know what she wants, and is so confused about everything in her life that she can not make any commitment or even give me an indication of how she is going to feel. When I asked her directly for a yes or no answer to the question "The way you feel right now – do we have a chance". The reply was "I don't know". Although I desperately miss her, I am no way near as depressed as I was when we split last year, mainly because I have done everything that I can, and feel less of a failure. My head says that I would be mad to give it another go, but my heart says otherwise. We both accept that if we are ever going to have a future together we need to fall back in love with each other as we are now, not who we were, not who we think we can be, and not who we want the other to be. Fundamentally, there is a big difference as to how we view relationships; I am an only child and have never felt entirely happy when I am single. My ex is virtually the opposite and is generally at her happiest when single. She has always been a free spirit and often said that our relationship sometimes makes her feel like her wings have been clipped, usually followed up by "there is no one that I would rather have my wings clipped by than you". I know that it is not really my problem, but sincerely believe that my ex should get help before the OCD gets any worse. From what I have read, most sufferers only accept that they have a problem requiring treatment once it gets so bad that they cannot function. Her mum told me in private that she was going to take my ex down to the Drs, but the next day, in front of my ex told me that she did not need help and that all the pressure to get counselling was making it worse. I am now kind of looking at our relationship a little like smoking, I know its bad for me, but can't help myself. I have the following options open: 1, As her Mum suggested, seeing her once a twice a month, to take things back to basics and see if we still have a chance, once she is feeling more together and has more direction in her life. 2, Total NC The problem with 1, above, is that there are no guarantees, and I do not know if I am strong enough to do this without being needy, or feeling resentment and reminding her of all the bad things. The problem with 2 is that if I do not see her, I do not believe that we will ever have a chance, as she will convince herself that our relationship has caused all her problems, where at the moment she thinks that her problems have caused the problems in our relationship, but at the end of the day the reasons are irrelevant as although we still love each other, we have fallen out of love. What do you guys think? My feeling is to give it another couple of months, see her occasionally, and do my best to get on with my life, but I know that the lack of progress and desire from her is going to be tough. If after this time there are no positive signs then it is obviously time to move on. I am planning to go travelling in about 6 months time, so I can use that for my NC healing time if things don't work out. I am worried that I am being used, although we have had very little contact for the past few weeks. She has in the past only turned to some of her friends when she needs them. I do accept that we may not have a future together, but I know that if I walk away now, rather than giving her space, I will always wonder how it could have been if she was in a better state of mind. She has already told me that if we do go our separate ways she is sure that in the future she will look back and be full of regret. What I am sure of is that I am very lonely and very uncertain. We moved away from my home area to start new lives in another part of the UK, that we both love and where all her friends live. I have made no friends of my own down here. This is whole situation is on my mind 24/7, and even though I try my best to talk to neighbours and colleagues about other things, all I can think of is this.

Go for it mate, but you will be surprised at how strong you will have to be. Even little things like when she puts strangers before you really cut to the bone. Just don't react to things that you don't like. Hope it works out.

Don't know m8. Could be an excuse to ask you over to see you. Have you actually told her how you feel and what your reservaions are. I don't mean all teary needy type of conversations, simply sit her down, look her in the eye, tell her what you want and ask her what she wants. Take it from there. She'll either be impressed or scared off, either way you have been honest and lost nothing.

I'm in the same situation mate with my ex fiance of 5 years. We split a little over 6 weeks ago, mainly due to apathy and taking each other for granted. Since then have spent so much time talking about where we went wrong, and actually listening for the first time. She says that she still loves me, but the passion is gone, and does want to date to see if we can get the passion back. I believe that she also needs to let me prove to her everything that I have told her. She also wants some time to herself. You can check out my post from about a week ago for the full story, but suffice to say I know what you are going through. See my post for some good advice from another couple of members. I have my first date with her tomorrow. I have found that the more I push her the more she pulls away. I'd advise (and I do find it difficult to do), that you let her know that you would like to try to work things out with her, and that she does have as much space and time as she needs, you'll try not to pressure her, but she's got to accept that you will be healing in that time and possibly your feelings will be change. Let her know you care and want to prove to her that you want to make ammends, but don't allow yourself to be a doormat for her to pick up and put down when she needs. its very easy to become a "security blanket". For your own good, don't leave yourself in a position where you are waiting for a call back, or an email, etc. I believe that there is an element of gameplaying involved. It does not have to be malicious, but if kept low key really can add to the excitment and passion. Occasionally tell her that you can't meet and that you will call her to rearange. All the best m8.

Mate Been in you exact same situation. EX GF who did not want to know until I showed an interest in someone else, then the ex was all over me again (even though she was seeing someone else). Then of course I told her that I still wanted her back and did not see her again for over a month until a mutual friend told her that I was really keen on another girl. Within a week she had dumped the other guy and was all over me again. In the end I got drunk, got back with her, and then finished it myself within a few months. All I would say is that she is playing games, but I do not think maliciously, she probably is not aware of the fact, but it sounds like a case of "wants what she can't have". Until she can mature out of this she is not ready for a long term relationship - she will always either hurt her partner, or stick in a relationship where she is being treated really badly. My advice is, keep emotional distance, but go for the physical, if she wants it and so do you, why not? Just don't let yourself get drawn into the emotional side, and she will probably be crazy about you. Obviously I don't know her, and this action may actually hurt her and make her feel used, particularly if I have read things wrong and she does really like you and the physical is the only way that she feels comfortable showing it. Play it cool, enjoy what hapens today, forget about tomorrow, and don't wait for her.

Make shift hurt. Not sure if I am the best person to advise as I am very unsuccessfully dealing with the break up of a 5 year romance at the moment. My current situation is different to he past situations that I I'm going to talk about. Twice in the past I have been finished with in long term relationships that I wholeheartedly believed were the "ones". 1, After nearly 2 years together she told me that she wanted a 2 week break. At the end of this she told me that she she did not want to get back together. I was gutted. i then found out that th e 2 week break was actually to see if she was happier with some other chap who had been giving her attention whilst we were together. I still wanted her back and did all the usual phoning, writing tapes etc. All to no avail. Then I met someone else, I wasn't that interested but did go out on a couple of dates. As soon as the ex- found out she was back on my case. She finished with the other chap and pursued me. By then (about 5 months, of which the last 1 was no contact - mainly as I moved away from my small hometown back to University) I really was not sure if she was the one anymore. Ended up getting back with her when I was drunk at Christmas and finishing it myself within 3 months. Lessons here were she only responded when she thought that someone else was going to get the attention from me that she had been getting, and that all the time she knew I was into her, she had a security blanket, in fact when she said that she still wanted to be friends, and I told her "no" , she broke down into tears. The most valuable lesson I learnt from this one was that once my emotions about the ex had calmed down and I had found someone else to focus on, I realised that my ex was no longer the one that I wanted. 2, Lived together for nearly 2 years but broke up (her choice) because we were always arguing . Due to house and financial circumstances we carried on living together for 3 months after actually breaking up - very bad idea by the way. That 3 months was spent by me telling her virtually on a daily basis how muchg I was hurting and how we could sort things out. She showed no interest at a ll. When I eventually moved out, it was over 6 months before I was even interested in seeing seeing anyone else and did see the ex every few weeks during that time. That was a long slow healing process, but I did find myself getting stronger each time I saw, although I still desperatley hurt each time I left. We ended up having a lot of mutual respect and caring very much for each other, but this whole episode killed the chance of any further romance because all of my tears and sadness in the early stages had made her feel so guilty. Although within 6 or 7 months I could describe myself as happy it actually took me years to get over her. i still love her to this day, but am 'in love' with my most recent ex. The 2 lessons that I learnt here are that it is very very hard to maintain an even relationship with someone that you want to be involved in a romantic relationship with. They will feel bad about hurting you, and will be sensitive to your sadness. But just because they care, does not mean that it is right. And the guilt they feel will ultimatley lead to either resentment on their part or pity. Neither will bring them back. The other important lesson, was that every time that I saw or spoke to my ex, I would just be ripping that freshly healed scab off again. Each time taking longer and longer to heal. All I can say is that you have all my sympathies, and I recomend that you simply look after yourself. If that means no contact for a while then do it. You never know you might wake up one day and realise that you don't want him back after all, and the hurt of him seeing this other girl will probably be the motivator to give you the strength to get over it. Just remember that each time you see him or speak to him your hopes are going to be so high that you will allways be disappointed. Give that scab some time to heal When it has, then see if you want to get back in touch with him. Just by talking to him about emotions, how you feel etc lets him know that he is still wanted and makes you more vulnerable, as well as bringing back his guilt about hurting you. None of this guilt he will be feeling with his new fiance, and trust me, the fact that he has told his new GF that he will always love you and that he is still feeling guilt will not do his new realtionship any favours. The harder you push the further he will back off, and the same is probably true of her. Take a step back, give his rebound relationship time to fall aprt by itself, and hopefully by then you will have healed enough to decide if he is what you really want. I'm not a firm believer in NC but distance, time and space really does heal. I think its fine to stay in touch as long as you can handle hearing what you don't want to hear. If the conversations and emails can be kept to "I've been doing this that and the other", and "how are you doing", "good, I'm pleased to hear it". talk about college, family, friends. Avoid talking about relationships at all costs. Something a friend of mine once said, that as I get older and wiser I tend to believe more and more, is that the "one" only exists for very few people, and that the chance of meeting that one are very slim. For the rest of us there are thousands if not millions of people out there that we can fall in love with and be happy with. Also, many people say that it is not about playing games. I'm sorry but I believe it is. Not games to hurt people, but games to do with power. If you are on the bottom, you will feel like a doormat and find it harder to pull yourself back up. Don't tell lies or try to hurt him, but if you can somehow subtely let it be known that you are moving on, and then stop contacting him, you may be surprised at the result. In time he probably will contact you and be inquisitive , but try to keep it unemotional, and be a bit mysterious. Avoid or refuse to answer questions about relationships on both sides. Oh, and always be the one to finish the call, and never leave yourself in a position where you are waiting for an answer to a question or a follow up call or email from him. As I said above, let that scab heal itself, and try to be unemotional and indifferent if you do speak to him, and you will be surprised how good it make you feel about yourself. Oh, and don't be worried if you start feeling anger and resentment towards him, this is a normal phase and will pass, but is probably the most important time not to be in contact with him, as you may well burn your bridges. Take care and I hope it does all work out. I posted my current situation about week or so ago on the same forum. Tomorrow I have my first date with the ex.

Thanks. I'm really starting to see that now. I have already told her she has as much space as she needs, but made it clear that I also need that time to decide for myself. However, at the moment, despite my better judgement, I think my emotions are dictating my actions. When I spoke to her last week, she said how busy she is at the moment, but does really want to date. I simply said, it would be nice but whenever. She is very busy with work, and has had a recent spate of friends birthday, housewarming parties etc. She has sent one one email saying that dating is the only way that we are going to rekindle our passion, and reaffirmed that she does want to date again, but is so busy. I had an email from her on thursday that ended with "I'll try & pen a letter over the weekend. I'll think of a night for our date. Next week's looking packed already and the housesit starts Thursday. Have a good walking weekend. Drop me a line tomorrow if you feel like it - I do like getting your emails." Why do I get the feeling that I am just a security blanket for her, or am I being paranoid and she just needs more space to get back her own life (for the five years that we were together, we were virtualy hermits, with visits from my friends only). Its good that she is busy, because she does tend to get quite introspective when she has nothing to do. She would laugh if I said so, but shes quite like a sheepdog, they always need exercise. Incidentally, I don't intend to respond to this email until I read her letter (well i did respond but send it to myself instead - way too heavy). I guess, its just having that contact, without it being face to face is driving me nuts, neither of us have ever liked the telephone, and I find emails and texts too formal and sterile. It doesn't sound like I am listening to you guys does it. I am , and I will act on your advice. In fact, I am quite looking forward to meeting her for a date away from our house. I need to see if we have anything left to talk about apart from our cats, "the relationship", and the past. My sel-esteem (ego) has had a recent boost, in that one of the admin ladies at work told me that I am considered quite a catch amongst quite a few of the single girls there, now that I am single again. Its anengineering firm so there are not many, but its very flattering. A female friend has told me that I should just get out there and date other women, she said I should be honest with them, so as not to lead them on. I'm not sure if I am ready for that yet, but its certainley a more positive focus than a lot of my current thoughts. Thank you for listening and offering your advice. No doubt I'll be back on here again with further woes. Cheers

Hi My fiance and I have split recently. We had 5 years together and have been engaged for 3 of those. Things were so great for the first few years that we thought it would last forever. Unfortunatley we started to take it all for granted and stopped really communicating. The last year, there have been more bad times than good times. I stuck my head in the sand beccause I thought we were going through a bad patch and was not being listened too. She thought I did not love her and was not lisening to her. We split for a break 5 weeks ago. We own a house together and she has moved out to stay with friends. My father was also very ill, and I was suffering from work related stress, and felt that I was getting no support at home. She felt similar from me. We tried NC, that did'nt last more than a week. We moved away from my home town 3 years ago to a new area, where most of her old university friends live. Her friends never made an effort with her whilst we lived here, it was always her making the effort. All my friends live over 200 miles away, and I have made no new friends down here. I am one of those people that can get on superficially with anyone, but only bond with a very few. We have agreed to spend some time dating, and did have a lovley day together, which turned into a week. It was just like old times; laughing, holding hands, cuddling all night (no nookie though) even talking about the future tgether. It did go a little bad towards the end of the week (me applying a little too much pressure), but was fine the following day after we talked about it. What hurts me so much is that we have been so open and honest with each other, and know where we went wrong and how to fix it. She says she does to, and knows that I can make her happy. She says that she is just tired and does not know if she wants me to make her happy. She wants to date to try and rekindle that passion. I have told her, and written, and emailed etc, how I feel about her. I have also told her that she has as much space as she needs. In the middle of November she has to either find a place or consider coming back. I am realistic enough to know that it might not work, but I find it so difficult to let go without giving it a try. I, maybe unrealistically, feel that if we do try and it does'nt work out that we will t least have tried with this new found understanding. She has always hated talking on the phone, so conversations are ussually very brief. E-mails seem to get misinterpreted by both of us. Letters tend to be from me (I love you, want you back, make you happy / proud/ etc....), letters from her are more (I'm doing this, XXX thinks that.....). She says that she needs time to be happy again and is reading a number of self help books, copies of some she has bought for me. Although, I am trying to be as objective as I can be, it hurts so terribly not having her near. She is adamant that she wants to date to see if we can get it back. But have we been on a date, or been able to arrange one yet? Nope. I did say, and she agreed that we should stay away from home when we date, as its too easy for me to turn into a blithering idiot. I don't know if I am simply being a security blanket for her until she sorts herself out, or if she is sincere in wanting to date. She says she does, but I see little evidence. Maybe she is scared of her feelings for me, as we were both so intimate on that week we spent together after the split. I guess I am out of sight, so also out of mind. All I know is that I am so confused, feel like I am dangling on a string waiting for her to pull it. She is very non-confrontational (not just aggressive, but also emotional), and I am scared that rather than facing up to her feelings (one way or the other) she will simply ignore them until she wakes up one day and realises what we could have had. (She admitted that she has done that in the past). I have enough experience of life (34 with a number of relationships, good and bad) to know that we can be so right for each other, and that I will never meet anyone again that is capable of making me feel the way she does. I have had a grand total of 12 hours sleep in the past week and have eaten about 5 meals. I know that I am not alone, but every waking minute I am thinking of my lost love. I just don't know what to do. I feel like going off and seeing someone else just to see if that gets a reaction, then realise that I could never forgive myself for either hurting "someone else", and more importantly jeaopordising our chances. I just feel so useless. I guess that that is part of our problem, as I do have a an element of control freak that I'm working on improving. I'm lonley, confused, and so totally lost. I don't know what to think, do, say or act. my thoughts are a whirlwind of love, regret, resentment and desperation. I know that we will meet up, but the way things are going its allways going to be on her terms. Please help.

Old Guy Most of the problems have been down to poor communication. She is very much the perfectionist and has never lived with anyone before, and does have a slightly idealistic view that if 2 people are right for each other they don't have to work at it. On the other hand I have had a very intense long term relationship that ended disasterously in the past, this I have now recognised has left me with a fair bit of emotional baggage that I have not really recognised until now. As mentioned earlier we have both had numerous problems outside the relationship - work stresses, redundancy(s), family bereavment, ill health, one of us virged on cannabis dependency, amongst other things. She really punishes herself for wasting her time at University, and this is the reason that she told me that she was going to see a councillor, she did offer me the chance of attending, but said it was more to do with my own insecurities and issues, rather than any problems between us (at that time, I thought that we were going through a bit of a bad patch, not that we had any serious issues - how wrong was I). Even when she was seeing the councillor I was totally supportive, and always asking how it was going. She told me very little. She now tells me that she asked me because she felt that we needed relationship councilling, and that our problems were virtually all she talked about. The weekend+ that we spent together proved to us both how happy we can make each other, even she admitted that, but she says the passion has gone, so she does not know if she wants me to be the one to make her happy again. How do I get that passion back without seeing her, however, how do I heal if I carry on seeing her. I'm 34 years old and should have some of these answers by now, but just feel like a lovesick schoolboy. You are absolutley right, I should be a man about it, but do not want to risk throwing away five years just so that I heal up a bit quicker.

Ramirez You are absolutley right. I do desperatley want her back, but only if she wants to come back, coz I know that otherwise it would all fall apart again. This other lady, is nothing more than a nice person who has shown an interest. It has helped me to separate the feelings of lonliness from the feelings of regret and lost love. Even so, I desperatley want her back. I am not the type to have a relationship with this new lady to either spite my ex, or to rebound. We (me and the ex) have both admitted since the split, that neither of has have ever felt such a close connection with anyone as we felt with each other. It just seems such a shame to waste this. We co-own the house, but she has moved out to stay with friends, whilst I am staying at the house. She still comes back to pick up clothes and things but I try to make sure that I am not there. This, of course makes extended periods of NC very difficult as I have to let her know when I am away. I'm away in a couple of nights and she is coming over then, so I'll leave her a letter then. I keep telling myself to be stronger and less of a doormat, but every time I think of her, I think of something else to say that will bring her back. Of course - it doesn't. She has a place to stay until mid november, at which point she will either have to find her own flat or come back. This is the second time in my life that i have been through emotional hurt this powerfull, the first time, actually hurt a lot more as I could not understand. Right now it is pure frustration, because I can remember how close we were (even recently), we both know where we went wrong, we both still love each other, we still have tonnes in common, we still have a major empathy for each other, we even know how to put things right between us. So why can't we give it a go - GRRRRRRR. We have both hurt each other a lot over the past year, mostly arising from poor communication, lack of trust, pretending indifference, and generally taking each other for granted. To be honest I know I can change the things in me that caused a problem, but I'm not sure if she can or would change the things about herself. Its not major changes, just learning to communicate rather than withdrawing or second guessing what the other is thinking. I'm thinking the best approach may be to write her a short but sweet letter, as you suggested, reaffirming my feelings for her, but also hinting that I am moving on as well, leave it then for a few weeks, and then, if she is still into it, dating her for a month or so, (neutral territory, away from the house) and hopefully by then I will have a better idea of where it is all going. I can be very pragmatic, and separate my head feelings from my heart feelings, the problem is actually ignoring the heart feelings. Thanks for your replies, keep em coming. You would not believe (well you probably would) how isolated you can feel. I do talk to my friends but am aware of going into one too much, particularly as some of them are not having too rosy a time of it themselves at the moment. All my friends live in excess of 150 miles away, so it is really helpfull to have these forums to get things off my chest, and to get advice from people who have beenthrough this before. Thank you all.

Thanks Sonjam I was not being judgmental of her friends, just disapointed that they were not welcoming to me (by her own admission, many of them are ex partners that still burn a candle for her). I do have many friends, but none that live nearby (we moved away form my home area 3 years ago, and are now near her mates only), and all of which have been very welcoming to her. Whilst her friends have at best ignored me, at worst let me know they have no time or interest in anyone outside their immediate circle. You were right, I did not want to hear that about her finding her feet, and I probably have been overbearing. But the point that I did not make clear in my first mail, was that we both totally know where we went wrong, and are both very sad that this has happened. I just feel so frustrated that we are going to throw it all away, even though we both know where we went wrong and more importantly how to put it right. The weekend that we spent together certainly proved how great it can be. Of course their were tensions, with all those emotions flying around, but there was a much deeper understanding and tolerance between us than there has been in years. Thanks for the reply.

My fiance and I have recently split up after being together for 5 years, engaged for 4 and having problems for 1 or 2 years. We have lived together for virtually all this time. In the beginning it was perfect (most of my friends think that they had never seen a better stronger couple), but then the rot set in, and total misscommunication and second guessing each others thoughts caused big problems between us. Although we have never actually had an argument, she is very non-confrontational so withdraws, while I get paranoid and tend to stick my head in the sand. We both knew there were things wrong, and did have a few chats, but generally not about the right things. She now says that although she still loves me, that too much damage has been done, and she no longer feels any passion. Anyway, at the beginning of September we decided to split up, 2 days later she decided it was just a break to sort her head out, but with no guarantees. She moved out of our home to stay with friends, as hers live nearby, whilst I know very few people, other than to say hello to in the street. The day we broke up, I wrote her the usual pleading letter, she wrote back about a week later asking if we could go out and catch a film (she had previously said that she wants to carry on dating to see if we can rekindle things). I replied and said lets make a day of it. That was going to be on a saturday. She turned up at our house Friday night and stayed until the following Friday morning. Things were great, we spent time talking about how we were going to decorate our house, how we would set up a joint bank account, we held hands all day, and cuddled all night (no sex, but did sleep together). Only bad days were tuesday when I had to work away overnight (I called home twice but she did'nt pick up the phone or call back) and wednesday night when I got back to find her being very withdrawn and almost felt as if i wasn't there. Then thursday, things were good again. She only stayed the extra time because she has a cold, and the friends that she is staying with have a newborn baby. Incidentally, when things were great between us, we rarley spent time with anyone apart from each other. In general, I rarley spent any time with her friends as I found most of them to be cliquey and some of them very rude. I also did not like the way that they only contacted her when they wanted something. Of course, now she is staying with the very same people that I did not get on with. She has admitted that she knows that I can make her happy again, but does not know if she wants me to be the one. It subsequently turns out that she has been crying on her friends shoulder for over a year, seeing a councillor (I knew about this, but she told me it was to help sort other issues out). Certainley the extended weekend we had together made me believe that we could work things out, and she has reaffirmed that after we have had more of a break she wants to start dating me again. My problem is that I feel that it is me dangling on a string at the moment. She got on well with all my friends, one of which came to see me this weekend. She knew he was coming and suggested meeting up for a beer. I responded that I would call her on Saturday, only to get a reply that I should'nt phone on saturday as she had a big party to go to, but I could text her, about meeting up on sunday. - I texted her and told her that I was unavailbale all weekend. (the last party she went to after the split - she admitted that she just sat in the corner with nothing to say). It really seems that she spends a few days without contact with me, and she has a 1000 reasons why we are wrong for each other. Within a few hours of us being together she is curled up on the sofa with me. This cycle is driving me up the wall. Do I do the NC thing, do I write to her one last time, telling her how much she means to me but I have to move on, and can't wait forever on the offchance that she will decide to come back, or do I tell her that I have met someone else (I have, but have no intention of it going anywhere more than a sociable drink after work until I am healed). A female friend said I should just do the NC thing as any contact even telling her that I have met someone else and want to sell the house, is just saying to her "Hi, I'm still here thinking about you". I am just so confused, she is fickle at the best of times, but when we are together it is like it was right at the beginning of our relationship, when we are apart I feel like she is not giving me a second thought. She does seem to respond well to letters, and said the one that I sent her was lovley, but of course, telling her how we should be together, is not going to rekindle her passion. Incidntally, we have both spent a lot of time talking about our problems since the split, and it seems that a cloud has lifted, and we can see all the problems and causes with an amazing amount of clarity, but like she says she does not know if it is too late. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, as I don't know if I am being strung along as a fallback in case her new independent life does'nt work, or if she is genuinley confused. Thanks in advance.