Living Together Before Marriage - Your opinions please!

[BellaDonna]

This is an interesting meta-analysis of the whole thing: link removed

 

It paints a grim picture......However the golden word "commitment" (i.e. lack of it) which you all have been talking about already, seems to be the biggest factor as to why things go bad.

 

 

BellaDonna

[rocio]

I don't think divorce is necessarily a bad thing. I also feel that I would never want to get divorced and I 'don't believe in it'. But then when I see many of the couples I know who have gotten divorced, it changes my mind. Life is too short to be miserable. My mother divorced from her first husband, and considering what I've heard of him, I am so, so happy she did so. She deserved so much better. My cousin divorced her first husband as well, and she is much happier now with her second husband. The first one was bitter and wanted to make her miserable. I'm also glad that my grandmother divorced her first husband, and my grandfather divorced his first wife. They deserved so much better, and finally found each other. You can argue that they should have known that before getting married. But the reality is that we make mistakes and hindsight is 20/20. In societies where divorce just isn't an option, all the people I've listed would have been sentenced to lives of unhappiness.

[Sheyda]

Please share your opinions! Do you agree with living together first? What is the reason for living together first?

 

Even though you can know that person very well through dating, there are a lot of things you won't know about them until you've lived together (such as a few of the things hazey mentioned earlier). Seeing as my boyfriend lived in Canada and I lived in England we didn't get to see each other often at all while living apart so we thought, "Why not try living together and see if it works out?" People might think that is stupid, but I think it would be even stupider to marry each other when we are still living on opposite sides of the world.

 

However, if two people are in the same country, live close together, have slept over each other's houses, had breakfast together in the morning and so on I think they definitely have a good idea of what it would be like to live together and could probably get married before moving in. I wouldn't say they are idiots, don't love each other and are not committed to each other if they did move in together before getting married, though. To many people I think it is just the next logical step before either engagement or marriage. Maybe they want to take things slow, or perhaps they want to get married and live together, but can't afford the wedding yet. Who knows? If they are happy with living together before marriage, good for them. If somebody is bothered and upset with what a couple choose to do that is their problem and not the couple's.

 

Consider that the rate of divorce is higher for those couples who live together first, which somewhat calls into question your theory.

 

I remember reading this study as it was posted on the forum before. There were a lot of flaws in it:

 

- Some of those who divorced after living together got married not because they wanted to, but because of pressure or feeling it is a step they absolutely must take.

 

- Some of those that did not live together before marriage were against divorce due to religious reasons, thereforeeee they would not get divorced even if they ended up hating each other.

 

- The studies were only done for white, black and hispanic Americans. It doesn't even include Asian people, interracial couples or individuals of mixed ethnicities and most likely cannot be applied to every country in the world.

 

- The people who conducted the study were simply correlating divorce with living together and correlation does not necessarily mean causation. If it did, you could also say that ice-cream causes drowning because ice-cream sales go up when more people drown in the summer.

[BellaDonna]

I could not imagine having to have sex with someone who I was "arranged" to be with. That's the part of arranged marriages that baffle me.

 

Romantic love also has it's risks....

 

Sheyda, you make some very important points when looking at any research:

 

 

correlation does not necessarily mean causation. If it did, you could also say that ice-cream causes drowning because ice-cream sales go up when more people drown in the summer.

 

BellaDonna

[ImThatGirl]

I used to think that pretty much, HA. That people shouldn't have to live miserably forever.

 

From my own experiences - Having children without being married was acceptable. At the time of having my children, yes there were hopes I'd get married but also low esteem that caused me to not make the best of decisions on who I was engaged to / living with. (Of course I don't regret those - I have beautiful children.)

 

I have often thought about how much I wish I would have been raised to have higher expectations and better decision making when it comes to living together, marriage, and children.

 

I have also thought about how moving out of previous relationships (and living together) was easy. I probably should have worked through MANY issues rather than been so stubborn. But I didn't have to. The alternative was "acceptable."

 

I may be going out on a limb here but I truly think ANY two people can marry and stay married for life if they both have the desire to. And I think they can find happiness in doing so even if they are not completely compatable.

 

I'm just thankful that I am not naive enough to think that everyone has the same goal - to get married and stay married forever. The fact that people can just walk away and do so often - from even marriage is saddening to me. (Again - unless abuse is a part of the relationship and can't be resolved.)

[rocio]

I may be going out on a limb here but I truly think ANY two people can marry and stay married for life if they both have the desire to. And I think they can find happiness in doing so even if they are not completely compatable.

 

I absolutely agree - if both parties are dedicated to that. I think appreciation is the key. If both people show appreciation to the other person, true love grows out of that. True love isn't just passion and infactuation.

 

I don't really know much (or anything) about relationships. But one of the smartest women I've ever known told me that - a brilliant 90 year old woman. I believe her.

 

But what do you do when the other person doesn't appreciate you? Doesn't give you the respect you deserve? Doesn't allow you to be happy?

[Daligal83]

I think a lot of it comes down to the couple's reasons for wanting to live together before marriage. You can't say that all of them just want to "try it out" and thereforeeee aren't ready. It's not always the case. I think a lot of the time when it does lead to divorce or breaking up, it's because moving in together was done as a means of fixing problems in the relationship. But if it's done because both partners feel that they are ready and committed, I don't see the need to be married or engaged first.

[shes2smart]

Having lived with 3 different bf's (one for 5 years, the other 2 for about 2 years each) and not getting married to them plus having a number of years living single by myself, here's my take on it:

 

Living together without being married and without a set wedding date is all the grunt work of a marriage with none of the benefits. If you're female, chances are good you will get saddled with most of the housework (cooking, cleaning, laundry) etc....even if both of you have full-time jobs. In spite of believing themselves to see women as 'equals' all 3 of my exes still held onto some rather antiquated ideas about who should be responsible for cleaning and cooking and so forth....even though they dirtied dishes, used the bathroom, ate food, and wore clothes at a comparable rate to me.

 

It is too easy for one or both partners to get comfortable and drift on in some sort of "sort of married but not really married" limbo for years.

 

It's also much easier (from a practical and legal standpoint) for someone to walk out if they take a notion to do so than if they were married. Emotionally, it's probably every bit as painful. I've ended shacking up arrangements, never ended a marriage so I couldn't say for sure.

 

If I had it to do over again...I wouldn't.

[spikespiegel]

A while ago, I would have said that living together before marriage would be a good idea, kind of a trial run for what's to come. But my mindset on that has changed, and I wouldn't live with a woman unless we were engaged to be married, with a date at least tentatively set. I just think that living together before marriage would be a hassle, especially if the couple split up.

[RayKay]

Well, I live with my boyfriend but neither of us consider it a "trial". We decided rather early on that we had something very special, that we were both committed to, and decided to move in together as part of that process. I had before him never lived with someone, but this was someone I knew, and he knew, was the one; this comes from experience and an understanding of whom we are as individuals and what we knew from each other and our relationship together.

 

Our reasons for getting married at this point are rather basic - the government won't provide me loans for my education as I require them if I am married at this point. And for the first year of school at least, I really need those loans. That may change next year or the year after if I can get a decent summer position and get a bank loan.

 

 

However, this living together without marriage does not in anyway mean that we are not 100% committed to one another present and future. I believe that whether you live together first, or not, get married or not, does not determine whether there is commitment, or not. Commitment is a choice made in the heart and mind regardless of what legal status you may have. Living together has also affirmed for us both that we were true in what we knew of one another and what we had, and has only strengthened for us that desire to be together for the rest of our lives. I think for us, we also know that our commitment is strong, and that we choose to be here, and that the papers would not make that more certain, or less certain. Even married, you still choose that commitment that you make in your heart and mind everyday.

 

I guess my experience is different from Shes2Smarts previous ones, I certainly do not feel saddled with all the work of marriage without the benefits or commitment. My partner is wonderfully supportive and contributes to the care of our household, finances, and of course our relationship. He has been extremely wonderful about supporting and encouraging my desire to go back to school, despite the change in disposable household income, and time constraints on me as I have so many classes, and am still working. I have to admit...he does more household cleaning, laundry than I manage too most of the time!

 

We also live somewhere were legal protection is given to common law relationships much easier and earlier than I know it is in other areas.

 

Sure I learned some things about him, and him about me by living together, but those are things that for us certainly are not negatives or dealbreakers, and our reasons for moving in were not to "test" the waters in that sense either. We just started talking one day and said, hey, you know, this is what we both want, this is our reasons for doing it, and this is what we are going to do.

 

I do want marriage for myself, but nor do I think it is necessary when that "commitment" is there, nor is it for everyone. My mother & stepfather have been together over 20 years, unmarried by choice (mostly her choice actually) but they are absolutely in love, supportive and committed to one another in good and bad, health and sickness, thick and thin...and I have seen that commitment through the years. Now they decided to move in together along with their children, but certainly I know they took their time to make sure it was right, and I can see why people with children make choices not to live with someone unless they are married.

[dogheadma]

My girlfriend and I live together but neither one of us is religious nor do we see the need or reason to sign a legal contract at this point. We don't consider it to have anything to do with how we feel about one another and we both agree that is superfluous to our relationship.

 

That being said, we are planning on buying a house together and when the day comes that we are ready to do that, we have agreed that being married would be the best thing for us from a business/tax standpoint.

 

So, for what it's worth, that's our take on it.

[Batya33]

Would you have a child with him without the common law or traditional marriage?

[Batya33]

Hmm- to me, however, it was not a traditional relationship - consistent time in person spent together - until you starting doing so - I respect your decision to live together but of course you could have lived in the same city with separate apartments and dated. More expensive, of course but I wouldn't live with someone just because of logistics or geography.

 

As far as your critique of the studies I believe those who did the studies had certain controls so that they did not fall into the correlation/causation trap but I have not researched it that closely.

[Daligal83]

I'm kinda surprised by so many people saying to wait. Not that I'm saying you guys are wrong, not at all. I respect everyone's opinion. I just find it interesting because it's something that I've been considering.

 

Right now my boyfriend of 5 months and I are in a LDR. We were friends for about 3-4 years before we started dating (we met in undergrad). I'm graduating in 4 months (yay!!!) and he'll have two years of school after that. I'm primarily looking for a job where he goes to school, which is where we both went to undergrad.

 

We've talked about getting married and know that's what we want to do once he's done with school. The way he's been talking, I wouldn't be surprised if he proposed this summer or into next semester. So the way I see it, we plan on getting married and if I'm going to be in the same city, it'd be really nice to live together. I wasn't sure about it, but then one day I came home from school and was in a completely anti-social mood. I was so thankful that I live alone so I didn't even have to deal with a roommate, but then my next thought was, it'd be really nice if I had come home to my boyfriend. I don't know...I know all the statistics and the dangers, but I still feel like this is something I want to do. Sorry for the rambling...I should have my this my own thread lol.

[rocio]

This is a great thread.

 

Personally, my ideal situation would be to be married to a guy, but have a separate apartment. I would share my apartment with 2 or 3 girlfriends.

 

How weird am I?

[Sheyda]

Hmm- to me, however, it was not a traditional relationship - consistent time in person spent together - until you starting doing so - I respect your decision to live together but of course you could have lived in the same city with separate apartments and dated. More expensive, of course but I wouldn't live with someone just because of logistics or geography.

 

Of course geography was not the only reason for making that decision.

[anggrace]

Hmmm, mixed feelings about this and marriage in general. It definatly helps you get to know a person better while living with them. Ive lived with a couple different guys. I found out alot about them that I dont think I would of known otherwise.

 

But I guess if you love someone enough to want to marry them, then all the extra little stuff you learn later about them while living together, should not change your love for them.

 

If you know you want to commit to someone, the only REAL difference of- before marriage and after marriage is paperwork anyway, right? Why would moving before the wedding be any different than after? At either time, you are the same commited people with annoying habits.

[rocio]

I think alot of people move in together thinking it will be a life-long thing, and then realise that's just not going to work. Living with someone is HARD! You can have a best friend for 10 years and move in together and suddenly you're not friends anymore. Maybe it's different for relationships, but I dunno. Personally, I would rather realise that before marriage than after.

[ImThatGirl]

But isn't it possible to find people that can love "unconditionally" with "full committment" and "unlimited love?"

[dogheadma]

But isn't it possible to find people that can love "unconditionally" with "full committment" and "unlimited love?"

 

Depends on your definition. Those are all subjective terms. There are lots of people out there that one can be potentially compatible with, but there is no perfect love.

[anggrace]

But isn't it possible to find people that can love "unconditionally" with "full committment" and "unlimited love?"

 

I think it is. And if you do find that, why should paperwork change whether you can live together or not?

[Batya33]

Hmmm, mixed feelings about this and marriage in general. It definatly helps you get to know a person better while living with them. Ive lived with a couple different guys. I found out alot about them that I dont think I would of known otherwise.

 

But I guess if you love someone enough to want to marry them, then all the extra little stuff you learn later about them while living together, should not change your love for them.

 

If you know you want to commit to someone, the only REAL difference of- before marriage and after marriage is paperwork anyway, right? Why would moving before the wedding be any different than after? At either time, you are the same commited people with annoying habits.

 

Because for some the paperwork is meaningful - either in a religious, spiritual or emotional sense. Owning a home instead of renting it is just paperwork too but many people I know are far more psychologically attached to the home they own than they were to the home they just rented.

[amtjrtcet]

A while ago, I would have said that living together before marriage would be a good idea, kind of a trial run for what's to come. But my mindset on that has changed, and I wouldn't live with a woman unless we were engaged to be married, with a date at least tentatively set. I just think that living together before marriage would be a hassle, especially if the couple split up.

 

I agree, engaged to be married. An engagement is kinda like earnest $ when you're buying a house. Give you some kind of "promise". I lived with my ex for 2 yrs. I had hopes to get married (we dated for 6) but his intentions were for me to be his lifetime girlfriend. I'm too good for that, so I split. And now, a yr later my name is still on the mortgage.

Live and learn

[shes2smart]

Just a comment for those of you who believe marriage is just "paperwork."

 

If everything goes swimmingly, perhaps it is. If your family likes your SO, and your SO's family likes you, life's good. If you are below a certain income level, or neither of you ever fall seriously ill or have a serious accident, there may be no noticeable difference between being married/unmarried on a day to day basis.

 

But life has a way of throwing curveballs when we least expect it. If you or your unmarried partner becomes seriously ill or injured and cannot make decisions for him/herself, you have no standing to have any say in their care as a non-spouse and non-family member. If their family members don't particularly care for you, you can be prevented from even seeing your SO if s/he is hospitalized.

 

Several years back, I attended a workshop for non-married BSDM lifestyle couples. A lawyer (who was in the lifestyle) was speaking about various situations he'd seen similar to that listed above. The basic ideas would apply to any non-married couple not just those in the kink community. There are rights and privileges that are given to married couples that are not necessarily/automatically granted to non-married couples. Perhaps those in the kink community and gay community are more likely to be concerned with these sorts of issues because there's a better chance someone's family isn't going to care for your SO or your lifestyle.

 

Most of these issues will only come into play when something's gone horribly wrong. Not really the time you want to deal with finding out that you can't see your comatose SO because his/her parents have a problem with you.

 

If you don't want to get married, you are free to make that choice. However don't fool yourself into thinking that there's no difference between "married" and "unmarried" in all situations. There are things you can do as unmarried partners to protect each other -- you can have a lawyer draw up a health care power of attorney and living will, for instance -- but you will have to make the effort to make sure those things are in place. If you're not married, those protections are not there.

[RayKay]

S2S,

 

I would just like to say that those situations also depend on where you live, as I pointed out in my post, the law regarding common law relationships here is different, than it would be in from what I understand the US. It is why I also put in my post previously that it is something we have considered of, and addressed those things where lacking, but that we are also protected legally under our laws here regarding common law relationships.

 

I absolutely agree that whether married or not it is important to ensure that your partner and you are both protected. When I was younger, my boyfriend of five years died, and his family except for his dad, basically ignored me in the process and treated it as a privilege for me to even see him while he was in ICU dying, despite the fact I had been there for him from the start. We were not living together though, but I do know how important it is to look out for one another and ensure you are thinking of one another.

 

Of course there are legal differences if you are married, or not, but I would also like to add it does not mean that you cannot consider these things without being married as well, as even marriage does not guarantee automatic rights over some things without those being expressed in legal documents. There are certain areas of the law in many places that even if you are married, do not give you automatic rights and you may still find yourself in the "cold", such as in the absense of a living will.

 

 

I am absolutely for protecting your rights, and your own financial, physical and emotional well being. I just think that if one is getting married primarily for the legal status, it may not be for the right reasons so it is important to really both consider your reasons for getting married.

 

Whether married, or living together and unmarried, couples need to address all the legal ramifications of illness, death, and so forth.