Sheyda

Personally, I think the longer hair flatters you more and suits your face shape better than the short hair cut. I think the slightly longer hair looks great on you.

^ I never said it looked unattractive.

^ I think it was for the original poster, who was asking why these girls aren't interested in him.

You look cute, but it appears as if you are forcing your smile and that it's not genuine. Don't think I can rate you without seeing your eyes as well, but I hope what I've said has helped you out a little.

It isn't that I am prettier than anyone here that I get this negativity regardless of how I present myself; it is because I happened to be in a place full of prejudiced people. I can't change prejudiced people's attitudes towards my appearance by dressing differently. If people are already prejudiced towards others they find attractive, the same judgements will still pop into their heads and some will even think, "Oh, that *****! She's trying to trick me into thinking she doesn't believe she's all that, but I can see right through her!" Sometimes they hate you more when you prove them wrong (even when you didn't do it on purpose, but they feel you did it to "attack" them), just like some people did when they realised I wasn't an idiot. It is not as difficult now as it was earlier in my life (maybe because I moved), but I do still get the odd person looking down their nose at me and speaking to me as if I'm a three-year-old, or glaring at me for sitting in the same bus as them or even insulting me for walking down the same street. I handle it better today because I realise it's their problem and not mine and if they are so bothered by how someone else was born that they feel the need to look daggers and shout insults, they should seek help. Despite things being less difficult, it is still shocking to me that someone who is an adult still believes such stereotypes. I still see young girls going through the same things I did and worse, only they don't know what to do, deal with it the wrong way and suffer because of that. No one deserves to suffer in silence, but because of how some people react to their calls for help, they do.

Whether an age-gap relationship is all right or not depends on the same things that decide whether any other relationship is all right or not. The only addition to that is making sure the younger partner is legal in their country.

This is an assumption; I never said this about you anywhere in my post and never hinted at it. If that is true I find it very strange that all these times I have been discriminated against I never dressed to attract attention to my body or wore make-up to enhance my facial features. People have assumed the following many times when I mention problems I have faced: that I fiddle with my appearance so that I myself invite the discrimination since I look like I am showing off. I don't know if this is exactly what you are trying to say, but at the time of all this discrimination I was even more shy than I am now, I had a low self-esteem (bullying), I always dressed conservatively and dull since I didn't want to attract any attention (I believed attention would've led to more bullying) and for the same reason I never wore any make-up. I do see your point about controlling the discrimination by how you present yourself, but if someone has never presented themselves in a way to invite discrimination how can they have any control over it? I feel like this is similar to telling an Asian girl who has always dyed her hair blonde and worn blue contacts that she can control the racist comments she has always received by looking less Asian. No matter what she is wearing they can still see she is Asian and they will still discriminate. I feel it is the same with a person who is seen as attractive by some; you can smear them with mud and put them in a burlap sack, but the same few will still say that person is beautiful. If someone among those few believes in stereotypes, those will still hold true and the discrimination continues regardless. It would be great if everyone could be proud to be themselves without having to worry about others attacking them because of how they were born. It's one thing to judge someone by what they are wearing as that is something that can easily be changed, but to judge them by something they can't change?

I wanted to add that just because a larger number of people might find you attractive it does not mean that you will also find yourself attractive or necessarily have a positive self-image. This is just another stereotype. As I've already said; I have been both sides of the fence regarding attractiveness and I felt equally bad either side. However, I do not think anyone can be entirely on one side as everyone has different ideas of what's beautiful and what's not. Also, I don't think that Unhumble's point was to decide whether attractive or unattractive people "have it worse"; I think they just wanted to test people's awareness of stereotypes towards attractiveness and fashion sense and find out why these stereotypes exist in the first place. I think stereotypes exist because some people are so full of hatred today and they need enough excuses to justify their discrimination towards others. Yes, I feel like I am already in the midst of one. I've also noticed those that reply assume the "beautiful" person is self-centred and believes they are the only one in the world suffering: another stereotype that attractive people are egocentric and do not think of anyone else but themselves.

I would like to know the answer to that question myself. Yes, it has created a lot of stereotypes, but I don't know about a self-fulfilling prophecy. I have been both sides of the fence. Not everyone finds me attractive but it seems there are a number that happen to think I am attractive. This has led to many people making unfair assumptions about me based on my appearance. - People assumed it was easier for me to find a boyfriend. However, I was only approached by jerks that wanted sex (and made that very clear) and the guys I would've liked to date were shy and too scared to approach me. Today, I would approach them, but I also suffered from severe shyness due to bullying. At 16 I was still single, which leads to the next stereotype that... - It is impossible for beautiful people to be single unless they are gay. Suddenly the whole estate was talking about me being a lesbian and I don't think I need to tell you how homophobic secondary/high school kids can be. - Beautiful people have easier lives, no problems and a lot less to worry about. My family has been hovering around the poverty line all my life, for 15 years I was bullied at least twice a week to the point I was afraid to go outside my own house, I have been pelted with stones for no reason, seen three people (including a friend) get hit by cars right in front of me, seen my dad come in my room with a nosebleed because my mum hit him, seen my grandfather dead, etc. Yes, I realise plenty of people have had worse experiences, but my point is this: having people think you're pretty is not a ticket to a trouble-free life. I never went through any of these events thinking, "Oh well, at least I am pretty; that makes everything perfect!" - They have power. I was a shy person who has always been the victim of bullies; I never had any power. Perhaps a confident pretty person would, but not everyone is going to bow down to a pleasant face. - They are stupid. I think there is no way that anyone can prove their intelligence, but looking at the system they rated theirs on I was smart. When other teens discovered that, they hated me even more. - They are nasty. People have always complimented my family and so on about how kind and polite I am, but I realise they could have assumed that my shyness was due to my being a snob; that I was stuck-up and felt I was better than them and that is why I rarely spoke. - They are promiscuous and easy to get into bed. Couldn't be further from the truth for me. I didn't even get my first kiss until I was nearly 20. - If they mention any of their problems they are just pathetic pity-seekers. Since they are pretty they must be lying about these problems for attention. For these judgemental people it is a tragedy if an ordinary person's family dies, but if it happens to a pretty person they assume they deserved it because (going back to another stereotype) all beautiful people are nasty and mean. Since I am shy I never wanted any attention, let alone a load of people pitying me. For a long time I felt pathetic; I didn't need pity to make me feel any worse. - They have a high self-esteem and are extremely confident. No matter how many people tell you you are beautiful you will not magically become confident. Confidence comes from within and since I never felt attractive and was bullied so much I had a low self-esteem and no confidence whatsoever. - More accepted by others and more popular. I was bullied by lots of popular people and so I was more of a loner. I have never been popular and I am still not even though everyone has supposedly grown up now. - They are egotistical and need to be taken down a notch. I think the self-esteem and confidence point already explains why this is a stupid assumption. - They are shallow. I have been attracted to tall guys, short guys, thin guys, fat guys, hairy guys, hairless guys, guys with bad acne, guys with crooked noses, guys with bat ears... Appearance never really mattered to me. - They're gold-diggers. With my family and I always having lived in debt, I did not care if a man had money or not. I was used to living in poverty, so why should that change if I meet a guy? - Always in a relationship. I didn't have my first relationship until I was almost 20. - If they are shy they are an arrogant snob and if they are outgoing they are a ho. You just can't win, can you? Either way, there has to be something wrong with you! I'd say that with the clothing it is just narrow-minded ignorance and people fearing what they don't understand. Fear can easily turn into unreasonable hatred. Yes. Sometimes I have gotten lots of glares that make me feel as though I have to scar my face, gain 100lbs or dress like a tramp (hobo to North Americans) just to make them happy and be accepted in general. Today I just look however I want to look and wear whatever I want to wear and don't give a turd if someone calls me a prostitute or a cow; if they are bothered by how I was born and by my liking certain clothes that is their problem and not mine. They have issues with insecurity and controlling how other people dress, so they should quit bugging innocent people and go see a psychologist.

As long as it looks good on the guy, I don't care. I've liked guys with long hair, medium-length hair, short hair, black hair, brown hair, blonde hair, red hair, straight hair, curly hair... Honestly doesn't matter to me unless the particular hair cut he has chosen does not suit him at all.

Of course geography was not the only reason for making that decision.

Even though you can know that person very well through dating, there are a lot of things you won't know about them until you've lived together (such as a few of the things hazey mentioned earlier). Seeing as my boyfriend lived in Canada and I lived in England we didn't get to see each other often at all while living apart so we thought, "Why not try living together and see if it works out?" People might think that is stupid, but I think it would be even stupider to marry each other when we are still living on opposite sides of the world. However, if two people are in the same country, live close together, have slept over each other's houses, had breakfast together in the morning and so on I think they definitely have a good idea of what it would be like to live together and could probably get married before moving in. I wouldn't say they are idiots, don't love each other and are not committed to each other if they did move in together before getting married, though. To many people I think it is just the next logical step before either engagement or marriage. Maybe they want to take things slow, or perhaps they want to get married and live together, but can't afford the wedding yet. Who knows? If they are happy with living together before marriage, good for them. If somebody is bothered and upset with what a couple choose to do that is their problem and not the couple's. I remember reading this study as it was posted on the forum before. There were a lot of flaws in it: - Some of those who divorced after living together got married not because they wanted to, but because of pressure or feeling it is a step they absolutely must take. - Some of those that did not live together before marriage were against divorce due to religious reasons, thereforeeee they would not get divorced even if they ended up hating each other. - The studies were only done for white, black and hispanic Americans. It doesn't even include Asian people, interracial couples or individuals of mixed ethnicities and most likely cannot be applied to every country in the world. - The people who conducted the study were simply correlating divorce with living together and correlation does not necessarily mean causation. If it did, you could also say that ice-cream causes drowning because ice-cream sales go up when more people drown in the summer.

I would most likely wait because the majority of the time I have felt attracted to a man's personality, that attraction has expanded to include physical attraction over time. This occurred even when I felt no physical attraction when we first met.

Annie24 has already posted a link on this in another thread: link removed Basically, there has not been enough long-term research carried out to determine whether this method of birth control is safe or not. Yes, it might have already been approved, but so have other drugs that have been found out to be killers a few years down the line. As booberry has already said, I don't want to take the risk of being someone else's guinea-pig.

I agree with this 100%. As I've already said; expect friendship at the most and be happy if this meeting leads to a continuance of that friendship, but do not be so pessimistic that you believe everything will go completely wrong and you'll hate each other in the end. Stay in the middle ground: this is where you're guaranteed the least amount of hurt. If you stay in the lower ground and be pessimistic you will always be feeling pain all the time because of all the negativity you surround yourself with. This will be a new day, just like every day and you should treat it like a new day by staying in this middle ground for a change. Don't be pessimistic and treat it like it's the same nasty day from the past when someone stopped being your friend/rejected you because it is not the same day. I do not see how answering her question with my own experience would give her too many expectations. I said that it was not a date at the first meeting, but we did have a date later that night. I am sure quietgrl is smart enough to know that my experiences will not be identical to hers else she would not be convinced right now that she has bad luck with men. I also do not see how my advice on actually meeting him is giving her too many expectations: However, if you believe expecting a continued friendship at the most is having too high of an expectation, I have nothing else to say on the subject.

Batya, I never said that your opinion was negative. When I mentioned negative in my post I was referring to the pessimistic attitude quietgrl seems to adopt most of the time; thinking all men are only after sex, no men want sex with commitment, etc. As for my comment on your post; I noticed through quietgrl's posts on this forum that she has little to no faith in men. At the beginning of this thread she appeared to have some hope, but now it seems to have gone again and other members' previous attempts to restore her hope have all failed. I am not in any way blaming this on you, as quietgrl is responsible for her own actions: it was her own choice to believe that her online relationship was not one of those that translate well into real life. She could have read your comment and chose to believe, through her own judgment, that her relationship is one of those that transfers well into real life, but she did not. My point is that I think this is one of those cases where the person asking for help really has to help themselves with faith, hope and optimism before others can give them more help. If quietgrl is now choosing to slip back into the pessimism, there's nothing we can say to help her.

^ I think that is because her first flicker of faith in men may have been crushed after reading this comment: quietgrl - Online relationships can work, but I think you have the right approach by expecting friendship at the most. That way, you will not be disappointed if you do not form a relationship and if you continue your friendship you will still be satisfied. On the other hand, don't be too pessimistic as the negative attitude can be picked up by others and this could ruin your first meeting with him.

Thank you once again for all of your support and advice. Recently we have been trying very hard to find a way for me to get this operation. The money is no longer such a problem; it is finding a doctor who will help a foreigner that doesn't have permanent residence in Canada. Two weeks ago, my boyfriend found out about another clinic we can visit. On Wednesdays it said they were open from 1.00 p.m. So we biked all the way down town to the clinic and waited outside the door. On the door it said it didn't open until 1.30 p.m., so we had to wait a bit. Then this lady sitting on the bench next to me asked if we were waiting for the clinic to open. We told her we were and she said that they had changed the time to 6.00 p.m. We didn't want to be waiting there that long and our favourite show was on around that time, so we biked back home. We realised later on that it was not a new episode. It was close to 6.00 p.m. at the time and we thought we might as well try biking back down there and getting this over and done with instead of waiting until Friday as we had originally decided. We biked back to the clinic and the receptionist asked my name, address, phone number and so forth. She asked what I was here for - which is a referral to a gynaecologist - and then she told us that this clinic does not do referrals. What a big fat waste of time; biking all the way down town twice in the freezing cold for nothing. A little while later we decided I should try calling the number for the Sexual Health Resource Centre. My boyfriend had found the number on an old card he had taken from the sexual clinic we visited almost a year ago, now. I was scared to call because the more numbers I call and the more people I talk to who can't help, the closer we get to becoming completely and utterly stuck. I forced myself to call the number even though I felt afraid. I summarised the situation and she seemed completely stumped. Most of what she said consisted of, "Erm... Err..." and at the end she gave me the number of our local hospital, saying they would have a list of doctors who will do referrals (but not knowing whether they would do one for a non-Canadian with no permanent residence). I tried calling the hospital today. I got a machine telling me they do not give medical advice over the phone and that I should call another number to talk to a nurse for help. I called this number to talk to a nurse and was told by a receptionist that they were all busy and I would have to give my name and number and wait to be called back. Once a nurse did call me back I listened to another bunch of awkward silences and "Erm... Err..." It ended with her suggesting I apply for permanent residence and then OHIP even though by the time I get permanent residence I might very well be living in bloody Japan and will have wasted thousands of dollars applying for PR in the first place! She also said the only other thing she could think of was to call gynaecologists and try these two sexual health numbers. I tried calling one number, got another machine that basically didn't give me an option because I am not Canadian, so I hung up and didn't bother calling the other number. I had already looked through the yellow pages and circled a few gynaecologists that may be of help and since the helpline numbers hadn't helped me much at all, I decided to give it a go. I called the first gynaecologist on the list and spoke to her receptionist. She was a nice lady and so far she has been the most helpful person I've spoken to. The bad news is that she said you have to wait between 1 1/2 to 2 years before you can see the gynaecologist (I will be living in another country by the time I can get an appointment) unless they deem it urgent enough to squeeze me in quicker. The good news is that she could help me with the referral issues. I can't be referred by my British doctor as she can only do referrals within England, I can't be referred by a Canadian doctor because I need permanent residence before I can even have a doctor and most sexual clinics do not do referrals. She gave me the name and number of one of the rare clinics that does do referrals. She said that if this doesn't work I can call her back and she will take my name, number and talk to the gynaecologist for me. I almost cried on the phone I was so happy that someone was finally making an effort to help us. I feel like we are on a wild goose chase here, but we are going to try going to this clinic over the weekend. Hopefully I can get referred and the gynaecologist will deem it important enough to operate on me a lot sooner than in 1 1/2 years...

We are going to have to agree to disagree on most of these things. Although you may have had a lot of knowledge regarding others' online relationships, no one knows my feelings and personal experiences better than I do. May I ask why you continue to disagree with my opinion and provide evidence against it if you are only trying to voice an opinion yourself? If you plan on sticking around ENA for a long time I am sure you will know if all goes well or not!

Well, I have no problem with you believing that I am wrong; I still believe my feelings led me to the right decisions in relation to this and nothing is going to change my mind on that unless my boyfriend suddenly turns into a completely different person and leaves me to die in a ditch somewhere. Even if the relationship ends, I wouldn't change my mind because it has been a wonderful experience and I have learnt some valuable things about life and myself. I think you have made a good point with your paragraph about those who end up in abusive relationships. I think that younger people and immature people can be quite vulnerable to ending up in these kinds of relationships. In fact I knew one girl who had already allowed herself to get involved with men twice her age (when she was 12) and is constantly moving from man to man, week after week, every time trying to convince herself that she has found "the love of her life". This type of person can easily fall prey to online predators. If my boyfriend ever threatened and/or hit me I would be straight back to England. I've already had a tough enough life and I am smart enough to know that I deserve a good relationship (especially after what I've been through) and to be able to tell the difference between when I am infatuated and when I am falling in love with somebody. I was always practical minded and before I met him I would have never dreamed of dropping everything for a man (even if he was wonderful)! It never even crossed my mind when I thought I was in love with another person before (I later realised it was only infatuation). I suppose real love can change a lot of things (for me, anyway). Actually, my boyfriend said he had fallen for me before I had fallen for him and to be honest it did make me a little uncomfortable as that happened so quickly (from my point of view), but it never raised red flags for various reasons. Now, if it was like other people I had chatted to online who claimed to "love" me after only knowing three things about me and wanted to marry me after only 10 minutes of chat, then I would feel worried. Sorry if this sounds rude, but I have the feeling you find all of this somewhat ridiculous. However, I don't mind as I am glad that you're being polite and respectful in sharing your views. It's nice to know people out there still have respect for others even when they have such different opinions.

That's your opinion, not mine. An opinion can easily be a fact for one person, but even if that is the case, it is not a fact that can be generalised to everybody. I never said anything about anybody being "deep" or "shallow" and none of what I posted was meant to be interpreted in that way. I'll just say that I am a very intuitive person and that I can usually pick up on these things even if we never meet in person. I already felt from talking to my boyfriend that he was a little insecure, nervous, that he felt more than friendship but was shy to take things further and that overall he was a kind-hearted and genuine person. Perhaps I am a little more sensitive to these things than most, perhaps I am subconsciously analysing everything using psychology I've learnt, or maybe I am just weird, but that's how it was for me. You are assuming that what is true for you when getting to know someone is also true for me, when it is not. This is why you are having some trouble understanding me; you are you and I am me. We're two different people, so of course we are going to sense things in very different ways. Maybe you cannot "get a hold" of a person as a whole through online communication, but there are some who can. I was already ready to give up everything for him before we met, as silly as it might sound to some.

I don't know if my boyfriend and I are exceptions here, but we fell in love online after speaking to each other for five months. We couldn't keep up regular physical meetings seeing as he lived on the other side of the world, but we met in person after those five months for one week. Two months or so later he stayed with my family over Christmas and then I stayed with his family over New Year's and eventually I moved in with him. I still felt exactly the same way I felt about him online after we had met. He was exactly the same as online and the only difference was I could see him and how he moved; his mannerisms and so forth. Those tiny things don't make much of a difference as to how I feel about him. We've been together well over a year now and everything has been great; no fights, no arguments. Only a few misunderstandings and most of those happened when we could only communicate online and were stressed out with other things. On The Road - Have you ever been in love yourself? I am asking you this because I want to know what you think people fall in love with? Is it a person's appearance? Do they fall in love with the way a person walks down a street? With their clothes? With their mannerisms? With their hairstyle? Maybe after falling in love they do find all of these things endearing somehow, but that isn't what makes them fall in love with a person as a whole. The person themselves is what makes them fall in love. When you're talking to a person online, that is all you see; the person behind all of those things. I hope this makes some sense to you. However, I still second what everyone has said about the guy possibly being someone he is not. With my boyfriend I knew he was who he said he was (had pictures of him and his family and so on) and even when I told him my dad would be wanting to see his passport when we met, he didn't back down and disappear into cyberspace. Have they ever chatted over webcam so she knows any pictures he has sent are definitely him?

21 and still waiting, but not by choice.

I agree that it will depend upon the individual as to whether they find your ability to debate attractive or intimidating. I think it's pretty obvious that if you are able to hold a debate with them in the first place they find it attractive; if they didn't they would've run away before it could officially become a debate. I just wanted to say that I agree with this 100%. Intelligence cannot be graded based upon results from standardised tests and essay questions. Just take Einstein for an example; he had awful grades, pretty much failed in school and yet his name is commonly used as a substitute for the word "genius".

Update I received an e-mail from my aunt in Toronto yesterday evening. She went to her gynaecologist that day, but she said to my aunt "Unfortunately I cannot give you a quote without seeing her." All right, I can understand if each operation is priced depending on the varying difficulty and/or seriousness of the situation, but couldn't she at least tell us the range of the prices? Oh, no; she can't do that. I have to go all the way down to Toronto myself and pay her money before she will help me. Just the same as with everyone else. Apart from our families, everyone who can help us refuses to because we are not stinking rich. In North America, you have to be rich to stay healthy and that's that. Expatriate insurance? Can't get that because I've already been diagnosed and so it is now a "pre-existing condition". Even if we pretended we didn't know about the problem and started right from the beginning, it takes so long before I would have the actual operation that we would've paid more towards the insurance than the actual surgery! Will the medical system here in Canada help us? No, we're just getting confusing mixed opinions from everyone and it seems like we're not going to get any straight answers until we pay them a load of money just to sit in a chair and hear one sentence from their mouths. This is another thing that frustrates us so much; that we are left alone and lost with no one to help us because we're not rolling in money. My boyfriend is seriously thinking about sending me on a flight back to Spain to get it done with that gynaecologist who diagnosed me. At least we don't have to wait half a year just to see him and at least he will talk over the phone without demanding a load of cash. Yes, I will be going alone if I do go and it makes me feel sad and frightened that I won't have anybody by my side (I doubt my boyfriend's mum would come in with me because she thought it would be inappropriate last time). However, it seems like I have no choice because a second flight for my boyfriend will be too expensive.