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[Fallout]

You know I have to say this..what's bugging me alot is the hypocrisy and double standard of the "free" countries, and in particular on this matter, the intensive, in my opinion overly intensive attention brough on this subject in relation to worse things that happened in history.

 

No, I'm not denying the "holocaust" or anything like that, but I'm irritated that *certain countries* take the moral highground in condemning Hitler while they were allied with Stalin during the same period...and Stalin is said to have killed 6 times more people...yes 6 times...7 milion in 1937 alone, and from 2 years later he was all smiles with roosvelt and churchill "The great heroes" for the next 6 years...

[heatheRmal]

Thanks for the reply.

Uh.. Not exactally sure what to say to it, haha.

Sorry if this reply is kiind of, messed up..

It's 7:30AM and I'm getting ready for school

It's true that having white skin gives you no protection, in my mind it should, then again I'm kind of biased in that, haha.

 

I'm not like, an "active Neo-Nazi" type thing. I just don't like diversity in my country, I guess. I know of what other Nazis, members of the KKK, and all other racist types [including people of a race other than white] have done, to me, i think KILLING people has gone a bit far, I could never kill someone unless it was self defense or something. As for the fact that they have also killed children, I don't agree with that part. Chlidren have time to grow and whatever, I don't think children should be punished for something they don't completely understand yet. Killing children to me is EXTREMELY terrible, well, other than abortion, I'm pro-choice on that if you have a good reason, but anyways, i forget my point..

Oh yeah. I know of what other Neo-Nazis have done, and although I couldn't really do that myself, I [in my own little twisted mind] know they did itbecause they believed it was right.

 

Again, sorry, 7:30AM and I didn't get my coffee yet>.

[heatheRmal]

You know I have to say this..what's bugging me alot is the hypocrisy and double standard of the "free" countries, and in particular on this matter, the intensive, in my opinion overly intensive attention brough on this subject in relation to worse things that happened in history.

 

No, I'm not denying the "holocaust" or anything like that, but I'm irritated that *certain countries* take the moral highground in condemning Hitler while they were allied with Stalin during the same period...and Stalin is said to have killed 6 times more people...yes 6 times...7 milion in 1937 alone, and from 2 years later he was all smiles with roosvelt and churchill "The great heroes" for the next 6 years...

 

 

I totally agree. This topic goes to show that race, even in the year 2006 for crying uot loud, will always be an issue. And I'm also extremely confused as to why Stalin's name isn't known as widely, let alone more than, Hitler's.

[Fallout]

Oh it's pretty clear why...winners write history, and they leave out/embelish the parts they did wrong, while exagerating their own merits...I think all the history from the beginning has been written in this manner..

[Daligal83]

to me, i think KILLING people has gone a bit far, I could never kill someone unless it was self defense or something. As for the fact that they have also killed children, I don't agree with that part. Chlidren have time to grow and whatever, I don't think children should be punished for something they don't completely understand yet. Killing children to me is EXTREMELY terrible>.

 

So, you strongly disagree with the killing of children, yet you admire Hitler? I don't get it. Do you realize how many innocent children Hitler killed? I strongly suggested you visit a Holocaust museum before aligning yourself with his ideals. I know you're just going to brush me off, especially because I told you I'm Jewish, but at least for the sake of your OWN personal education please do this. At most museums there are children's exhibits that are extremely powerful. Learn about something before you support it.

[heatheRmal]

So, you strongly disagree with the killing of children, yet you admire Hitler? I don't get it. Do you realize how many innocent children Hitler killed? I strongly suggested you visit a Holocaust museum before aligning yourself with his ideals. I know you're just going to brush me off, especially because I told you I'm Jewish, but at least for the sake of your OWN personal education please do this. At most museums there are children's exhibits that are extremely powerful. Learn about something before you support it.

 

I know he killed children, I know about the holocaust museums, I know about all that.

That's just one of the things I kind of disagree about Hitler.

You can't COMPLETELY, 100% agree with someone else's views. There's always going to be atleast one small, or maybe big, detail that you think a bit differently about.

[itsallgrand]

Oh yeah. I know of what other Neo-Nazis have done, and although I couldn't really do that myself, I [in my own little twisted mind] know they did itbecause they believed it was right.

 

Again, sorry, 7:30AM and I didn't get my coffee yet>.

 

Grab your joe, I'm having some too.

 

I know they believe they are right too. However, they come to my family and friends and want to hurt them. They would like to see human rights taken away. They cause pain in the world - is that ever justifiable?

They protest in my city. They are very angry individuals. It is not pleasant to be in their presense.

 

Belief alone does not make it right to stomp on another human.

 

What are your views on this? Do you think that if someone believes strongly enough in something they have a free pass to do as they like? Or is there a basic level of human responsibility to hold up to?

[heatheRmal]

Grab your joe, I'm having some too.

 

I know they believe they are right too. However, they come to my family and friends and want to hurt them. They would like to see human rights taken away. They cause pain in the world - is that ever justifiable?

They protest in my city. They are very angry individuals. It is not pleasant to be in their presense.

 

Belief alone does not make it right to stomp on another human.

 

What are your views on this? Do you think that if someone believes strongly enough in something they have a free pass to do as they like? Or is there a basic level of human responsibility to hold up to?

 

Well, I sort of believe in anarchy in a way. So doing what you want because of what you believe in is my views on that kind of thing.

 

I have to go to school.. I'll elaborate more afterwards XD

[itsallgrand]

It's not like me being racist is going to change the world or anything, the world will always have racists.

 

This struck me so hard. You are so, so wrong. It DOES change the world. What you carry inside makes all the difference.

 

I know this will come accross cheesy and all that, but I so hope you realize its truth at one point. Maybe after an instance of persecution to your own self (which may have already happened). Or maybe after something else.

 

One person can change the world, and every single person is important!

 

How else can we fight racism except with ourselves?

[itsallgrand]

Cool. Have a good day at school.

 

Anarchy...that's another topic.

[BellaDonna]

I don't really know what to say. I can't even be a part of such a discussion because it makes me feel sick to my stomach.

 

The only thing that comes to mind is that of all the things I have seen posted on this website, this is perhaps one of the saddest and most tragic I've ever read.

 

 

BellaDonna

[Batya33]

I know he killed children, I know about the holocaust museums, I know about all that.

That's just one of the things I kind of disagree about Hitler.

You can't COMPLETELY, 100% agree with someone else's views. There's always going to be atleast one small, or maybe big, detail that you think a bit differently about.

 

Actually, when it comes to Hitler, I am 100% sure that what he did in the holocaust was pure evil. How convenient for you that none of your family or friends were killed.

[justpaisley]

Heather -

 

You said you don't know why you're racist - you were just born this way. This is not true - hatred of other people takes constant nurturing, constant effort, constant attention. You hate people of other races because you want to, not because you were hard-wired that way. That's why I asked in my original post what has happened to make you hate people. It could possibly be the fact that you are in an area where there are few non-Caucasians, so your hatred is borne of ignorance. I sincerely hope that is the case, and when you start to mature and grow, and hopefully expand your bubble a little bit, you'll be exposed to other races and see that they're really not worth hating. I'm praying for the same thing for my little brother, who is also a racist.

 

I really want you to start to educate yourself about the Holocaust - really and truly. Whatever spin you want to put on it, Hitler was responsible for the brutal torture and murder of literally millions of people, including children. Read some of Elie Wiesel's work. You can say that it was Hitler's power that caused this murder, but you're right - he could have made these people all farmers. Instead he chose genocide. How in the world does that make this man basically good? Why not instead admire someone who has used their power for good purposes?

 

Hitler was an extremely powerful man, but do you really think that it was the color of his skin, solely, that did that for him? Or the fact that he was a charismatic leader who happened to be white?

 

You also asked how many "colored people" lead nations. Meet nearly the entire continent of Africa. It's not the color of skin that creates leadership, rather the core demographic of a nation.

 

I think I'm just wasting my strength here. You know that racism is wrong, but do you really want to change yourself or continue to defend your ignorance?

[RelaxByWater84]

I'm just wondering what you would do if you had to work with a bunch of people that were a different color than you.

 

This confuses me cuz I've grown up in an area where there were a lot of white people and a few black people. The black ppl I have known were not different, not that I notice. But then I never pay attention to race cuz I take people one at a time. Which is really all you can do.

[locolady]

wow what a truly shocking and distressing thread. I have read this with a real interest but also a real sadness that these views exist. I agree with a lot of what has been said here that heather its great that you are expressing yourself here and that the people on this forum are encouraging you to re-consider and to try to justify your beliefs.

 

I think and hope that the more you can be encouraged to justify what you are saying, the more you will find your feelings of superiority are not based on any rational or strong ideas. the colour of someones skin, their creed, their background should have no influence on your judgment of their worth.

 

I truly hope you will in time learn to judge people for how you find them - how you as an individual find them as an individual - divorced from any associations, stereotypes or expectations. i believe you will gain a lot more from life if you can do this.

 

I have grown up in a rural white community - infact at my high school of 1500 students, there was 1 chinese girl and 1 black boy. Every single other student was middle class and white. It would have been very easy for me to become narrow minded and ignorant. Thankfully my parents instilled in me a sense of equality. Today i can proudly say i have friends who are white, black, chinese, christian, muslim.....they each bring new perspectives to my life and they have exaclty the same worth. You cannot judge someones right to live, or their value on anything other than their deeds, their actions, the way they live that life - please understand we are born as we are born - it is what we do with our lives that matters.

 

Yes Hitler was an impressive character in many ways - i also felt this when i studied A level politics. He was persuasive, charismatic and if you watch a video of him speaking in public the atmosphere is electric - he was formidable. I understand your admiration. HOWEVER you are romanticising him. It is possible to admire these qualities and yet completely abhorr his actions.

 

As for why racism exists, i cannot answer, there are no simple answers. However you must move away from thinking that just because something happened before in history, it is in some way sanctioned as right? It seems your argument that black people are less important is simply that they have always been repressed? that is not a strong case at all. It simply means that once upon a time, a white person had more power and implemented slavery for example - this siutation then continued throughout history. It is a history we should be ashamed of - not proud that it continued for so long. We should strive to change history not repeat it.

 

Please take a look at the ideas of some modernist writers - modernists reacted to the events of WW1 with a sense of disillusionment, ideas that the whole world had lost meaning - that if humans could create such catastrophe, such meaningless slaughter what good could there possibly be in people. You might find some thought provoking comments about humanity. They have some interesting ideas about the recording of history that i hope might help you to see that history is necessarily biased and basically untrue - as someone else said - winners write history so the losers are written out.

 

I really hope you learn that no-one wins when racist views continue into our generation. Look around you at the good in every person - i hope you learn to judge people for their individual merits and in that way one day can feel good about yourself, proud of yourself for something of actual value - not the delusion that because you happened to be born into the dominant creed in your community that in someway makes you better than someone else.

[Batya33]

People sometimes express surprise when I say that anti-semitism is alive and well (particularly since I live in a large, diverse city). It is - the poster - if she is being accurate and not just attention-seeking - is an extreme and that is almost easier - what is harder are the people who are not ignorant but educated, intelligent, sophisticated and express their anti-semitism or general racism in more subtle ways - which is almost more damaging on every level. By responding to this post you simply give the OP the attention she seems desperate for and perhaps, unwittingly, more ammunition for her so-called arguments and theories.

[Bethany]

When push came to shove, Hitler crapped his pants and 'ran away'. Some hero, eh.

[DN]

First they came for the Communists,

and I didn’t speak up,

because I wasn’t a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn’t speak up,

because I wasn’t a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,

and I didn’t speak up,

because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one

left to speak up for me.

 

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

 

What is heartening about this thread is that there are people who are willing to speak up against fascism and Nazism - and that they are able to do so on a forum such as this.

[Dako]

I think we all carry a tiny seed of intolerance, and to see it grow in others is a painful reminder that we aren't all we could be.

 

Freedom of speech is a good thing.

[heatheRmal]

I just read all of the reicent replies.

I may not answer everything that was said here, because there was alot of replies since I got back from school, so I'll just reply to what I remember reading.

 

Someone said that I may be doing this for attention. I assure you, this is in no way a means for attention. I posted this solely to get it off my chest, so atleast someone, other than my two friends I mentioned before, would know. Not sure why, but I guess it's like, if you were gay, you'd want people to know, right? It wouldn't be for the attention, it'd be just for the afct of someone knowing.

 

I'd like to get another thing straight. I'm aware of the holocaust, and all the other things that have happened due to Hitler and racism itself. Any further investigation would lead to deeper hatred towards other races. Before I looked up things about Hitler and the war and all of that, I was still racist, but I was more open minded about it.

 

In this particular day and age, one person cannot change the world. In my opinion, anyways. The fact that I'm a vegitarian didn't stop the war on animal rights. The fact that I'm a racist didn't start WWIII. That's what I mean by changing the world. I know, I may change someones life because of my views on things, but I, myself, cannot change the world.

 

"When push came to shove, Hitler crapped his pants and 'ran away'. Some hero, eh."

Look how long he stuck it out for. Everyone's got to admit defeat sooner or later. Weather it be internally, or externally. He decided his time was up. Maybe he thought that if he killed himself, the war would grow stronger because they would avenge his death.

 

"I'm just wondering what you would do if you had to work with a bunch of people that were a different color than you."

I either wouldn't work there, or I'd suck it up and probably just ignore everyone. Or, you never know, maybe it would open my eyes to newer things and I'd become friends with some of them. But as of not, that situation doesn't apply to me, so I don't really think of it.

 

"Actually, when it comes to Hitler, I am 100% sure that what he did in the holocaust was pure evil. How convenient for you that none of your family or friends were killed."

I'm sorry if anyone in your family was killed due to Hitler. Maybe it is that I've never been exposed to a loved one dying, but as of right now, I don't really care why my views are this way, I just care that they are this way.

 

"Hitler was an extremely powerful man, but do you really think that it was the color of his skin, solely, that did that for him? Or the fact that he was a charismatic leader who happened to be white?"

Do you really think any of this would have happened if he were black, or asian, or another race, at that point in time in history?

 

"However you must move away from thinking that just because something happened before in history, it is in some way sanctioned as right?"

Personally, yes, pretty much. in this case, anyways. It's not solely the fact that it happened before, it's also the fact that it continued to happen all around the world, and is still happening, and will forever be part of our lives.

 

Again, I'll say this.

This post was not meant for attention.

I needed a place to vent, as I posted in the original post, and I felt that here, of all places, would be somewhere to do so.

I wanted to hear other peoples opinons on the matter, but in no way did I post this just for the attention.

I actually thought this would get about 2 or 3 replys and then get deleted by the mod or something.

[southerngirl]

I am not white.

 

I am a product of the melting pot that is america.

 

My original heritage is native american. Indian. Lets not forget what the 'white man' did to my anscestors.

 

I am also Swedish, Irish, English, German, Scottish, Mexican... SEMINOLE and CHEROKEE indian. I have also been told that I am part Black way back in my tree.

 

Why do I tell you this? Because each of those relationships/marriages in the past in my family blended us more and more to the point where I am the product. I am an american. That is who I am.

 

What do you consider 'white'. If you were to see me on the street you would think I was white. You may even think I act white. But I can assure you that anyone who had the nerve to be racist in my face would find me to turn spitting mad in all of 30 seconds.

 

I do hope you get well soon.

 

Racism is a sickness. It is a horrible desease.

 

You do not have to share the views of your parents or family in that you have already stated that this is how you were raised. You can stand up and believe in what you want to believe in and what is RIGHT.

 

Everything our parents do isnt right simply because they say so. Search your soul and I think you will discover that even they make mistakes.

 

I will tell you of my Great Great Grandmother. Her grandson, was my grandfather. She was a full blooded Cherokee indian. She fell in love with a white man. She was daughter of the chief. One of his many daughters. Was she racist like he was? No. She left the reservation having been told she must leave because she chose this white man. She lived with him till her death and together they bore 5 children.

 

Thats just one of the stories that are personal to me. I dont pretend racism has gone away, but I for one will stand up and be part of the solution.

 

TO A WORLD SICK WITH HATRID ---------- GET WELL SOON.

[DN]

If you read the books I mentioned Hitler committed suicide because the bunker he had hid in was under attack and he could not face fighting the enemy - he made some spurious excuse about not wanting his body desecrated.

 

But he instructed that the radio announce to the German people that he had died fighting. Another lie to add to the many that he used to fool the Germans.

 

I was once a soldier in the British Army and for a while was based in West Berlin. One of our duties was to take turns guarding Spandau prison which was used to house the Nazi war criminals who were not executed but sentenced to prison. The only one left at that time was Rudolf Hess - Hitler's one-time deputy.

 

What a pathetic man he was - shuffling around the yard, mumbling to himself and pretending to be ill to get privileges. If ever anyone needed a stark picture of the sheer futility of Hitler and his motley gang of misfits, drug-addicts, bullies, liars, sadists and gullible idiots - he provided it.

[heatheRmal]

southerngirl I actually agree with you. Not all of what parents do is right. My parents in this case aren't the same as me. How I was "raised" was that I grew up around kids always talking about race. Most weren't racist, but me and a few others were. I don't know why the topic ever came up, but it always seemed to as I was growing up.

 

DN You know more than I do in this kind of thing, but we both have different views on the subject, and none of these posts, [yours and other peoples], will change my views on the subject. You do have a compelling story, but I still stand for what I believe.

[chigal28]

Racism is a belief system that has much invested in justifying and maintaining the status quo. Racism essentially says that the people who have always been powerful (and, often, rich) should be the ones who are always powerful. This often stems from fear--fear of change, held both by those in power and those who are the beneficiaries of those in power.

 

It's been documented that bullies often put others down because of their own insecurities. Hitler, for all of his powerful rhetoric, was afraid--deathly afraid--of those who were different from him. Those whose beliefs he didn't share or understand, those who even looked different from him, he destroyed.

 

But some of the turning points in the history of the world hinged on those who were courageous enough--and insightful enough--to challenge that status quo. The French Revolution. The American Revolution. The overthrow of Cuba. And, yes, the civil rights movement.

 

Racism is the ultimate manifestation of ego, and has been used to justify so many of the horrors in this world. But can anyone truly say that just because someone has power means that they deserve it? And does that mean that any way in which someone uses that power--sending troops off to an untruthfully based war, claiming countries in the name of white people (Belgium, South Africa, the United States) that had already existed for thousands of years under another form of rule--is justified? I think not.

 

In many cases, the power simply goes to the rich--and, often, arrogant--who then write history as we know it.

[DN]

Winston Churchill - perhaps the most notable enemy of the Nazis, once said: "I have often been compelled to eat my words and have generally found them to be a wholesome diet."

 

Should you accomplish a small part of what he managed in his ninety years you may well say something along those lines. I certainly hope so.