This is TORTURE!

[melrich]

What opportunities did he have?!

 

None. That is why he is upset!!!

 

You are missing the point. You said he has no right to be upset that she found someone else.

 

I am saying he does have a right to be upset. It is natural that he is upset. It would be unnatural if he wasn't upset. Of course he has a right after 6 years (?) of marriage to be upset that his current wife has found someone else.

 

Does he have a right to stop her?...No

Does he have a right to abuse her for it?...No

 

 

But he has a right to be upset. And it does makes a difference if the new relationship is within 3 weeks of being told the marriage is over compared to it being in a few years time. Surely you understand that. It compounds the hurt and pain. You are not only dealing with the immediate pain of seperation but you have hardly had time to get over the shock of that and you are being told that your wife is also in love with someone else.

 

I feel like I am stating the bleeding obvious? Am I not communicating right here or something?

[TiredMan]

Tiredman, how is it cheating?

She has not even met the person in the flesh, yet.

 

Agreeing to be "engaged" is still emotional cheating. She has planned to go see her. Not to mention all the other women she has mentioned wanting over time. The only reason she didn't act on it was because of the other person, not her.

[DN]

Although the traditional wedding vow of 'forsaking all others' can be interpreted as merely meaning sexually, most people would take it to mean emotionally as well.

 

I think that any time you are in a relationship with someone and attempt to start a relationship with someone else that is reasonably defined as cheating.

 

The fact that someone may have discovered that they prefer a same sex relationship too late is irrelevant.

 

The ethical way to leave a relationship is:

 

discovery of problem in relationship, followed by attempt to fix problem if possible, followed by realisation problem is not capable of being fixed, followed by separation, followed by divorce, followed by freedom to pursue another relationship.

[darkblue]

The relationship is over. It has been for a hell of a long time.

There are no quick fixes or remedies for this one.

Why should she put her happiness on hold to make her 'husband' feel better?

 

There is no romantic emotional involvement between Tigris and her husband currently - so how can this possibly be classed as emotional cheating?

 

Incase I have not already stated this - Tigris no longer has feelings for the male species.

She does, however, have very strong feelings for a woman in Australia.

She has plans to meet this person in the future, and, if all goes well, become engaged to her.

 

Where does the husband fit in?

He is a grown man, who has had his wife find she is attracted to the opposite sex.

Of course he has a right to be upset. Upset about losing his marriage. Losing years of his life. But neither party had any idea this was going to happen - thereforeeee it is no one's fault.

 

And if Tigris has already met someone who can make her happy - good luck to her.

Her 'husband' may also find someone else down the road.

 

So just why should he be upset about her finding someone else, again?

Because he is 'legally' married to Tigris?

She should forsake her happiness because her husband feels betrayed..?

 

[DN]

This thread, like most others, is about people making decisions. The problems usually arise when decisions taken in one's own best interest adversely affect other people. And that's when people get hurt.

[darkblue]

Understandable - he has lost his wife to another woman.

But she will be happy, and one day, he will be, too.

[melrich]

So just why should he be upset about her finding someone else, again?

Because he is 'legally' married to Tigris?

 

Darkblue.

 

Imagine you have been married 6 years. Your wife comes home one day and tells you she wants a divorce. You are upset.

 

A few weeks later, you overhear your wife, who is still living with you (and perhaps you even hold out hope that you can reconcile) telling someone on the phone that she loves them. In the course of the next few days you find out 1. your wife is in love with someone else, 2. that someone else is a woman (it shouldn't matter but to many people it would), 3. she has never met the woman and 4. she is planning to leave the country and go to the other side of the world to live.

 

Now you may, in that situation were it happening to you, crack open the bubbly and celebrate your wife's good fortune and rational thought process but me, I would be very upset and my guess is a blubbering mess.

 

It has nothing to do with the ramifications of being legally married or otherwise. It has everything to do with having some empathy for another persons situation.

 

This marriage was certainly on the rocks from Tigris's point of view. I'm sure he may have suspected they were having difficulties but from previous posts I know that he was shocked and upset when Tigris told him it was over (that is typical behaviour, men often don't realise how critical things are until they hear those words "I am leaving you").

 

How anyone can ask "why should he be upset" is sort of beyond my comprehension. I mean yes you and I can, from afar, simply rationalise it down to cold hard logic...she's gay, there was no hope anyway, at least she'll be happy, get over it man....but unfortunately when you are in the middle of something like this human emotions take over.

 

Maybe you could suggest in your world what his reactions to this news should have been?

[darkblue]

The fact that she is leaving him should have hit him by now.

He has every right to be upset, but not to completely let his emotion cloud his logical thought and reasoning.

 

I see your point - but I don't agree with it.

[DN]

Well, he isn't Mr. Spock. Of course his emotions affect his reasoning - he's human. And you can hardly expect him to be rational when his wife says she is engaged to be married to another woman in Australia that she has never actually met; that in itself isnt the most rational thing I have heard.

 

Is he supposed to say "Oh, well, that's quite understandable, go ahead. Don't worry about me, I'll think of all this as a personal learning experience."

[melrich]

I see your point - but I don't agree with it.

 

Which part exactly do you not agree with?

 

but not to completely let his emotion cloud his logical thought and reasoning.

 

Have I missed something in this post? Beyond having been told that Tigris told him she was leaving him and that he was upset about it I hadn't seen anything about any irrational or emotional behaviour on his part (though if he was behaving that way I would understand it).

 

The fact that she is leaving him should have hit him by now.

 

I think it has. That's why he is upset. Took me mearly 2 years to feel like I was OK again after the end of my marriage. You think 5 to 6 weeks should have been around the right time?

[darkblue]

DN - the fact that she has found 'love' has nothing to do with you, and if she feels it is right; she should go through with it.

The fact that you feel it is 'irrational' is rather ironic - seeing as you moved all the way to Canada to be with your wife.

And yes, you had known her before - but you took as much chance knowing it may not work out.

 

Melrich - That was meant to mean 'let's agree to disagree', not 'let's add fuel to the fire'.

 

I believe Tigris has every right to persue happiness.

She wasn't getting it from her prior marriage, so she is doing them both a favour.

This may well go on to be better for her husband because he has closure - but did you consider that?

No, just the fact that the man has a lesbian wife..

[DN]

DN - the fact that she has found 'love' has nothing to do with you, and if she feels it is right; she should go through with it.

The fact that you feel it is 'irrational' is rather ironic - seeing as you moved all the way to Canada to be with your wife.

And yes, you had known her before - but you took as much chance knowing it may not work out.

 

Unless I am misremembering (it was a long time ago) I wasn't married to someone else at the time.

[darkblue]

"Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and only found in fools"

 

Yes, I realise that. And you know fine well what I meant by it.

[DN]

I wasn't being sarcastic - merely stating a fact. Another fact is that I knew my wife for two years before we got married and it was a year and a half after the wedding that we came to Canada. A little different to the case under discussion.

[melrich]

Melrich - That was meant to mean 'let's agree to disagree', not 'let's add fuel to the fire'.

 

DB, I am genuinely asking the question because I have read and re-read this post and I am just not seeing the rationale and I do want to see it.

 

I believe Tigris has every right to persue happiness.

 

I have absolutely no problem with this. My only question is why the husband should not be upset about things.

[TiredMan]

No matter what, you don't go find someone else while married. I don't care if you turn gay, find religion, grow a horn or what not lol. I think that is the point most are trying to make.

 

She found out she was not into males, fine. Well she should have been divorced BEFORE looking into someone else. This didn't happen.

[darkblue]

TiredMan, she did not go looking for love.

 

Melrich, The husband is going to be upset - he has lost a wife, to another woman. But he should not see it as a reflection of him. It was not controllable.

 

DN, It was in a sarcastic manner.

Yes, the situations are different, but the principle is the same.

You moved to be with your wife, knowing there was a risk that it would not work out.

Tigris is moving to be with someone she loves, and though there are risks, matters of the heart cannot be solved through talk, she is taking action.

 

One more time: Her husband has every right to be upset, but not to blame or make Tigris feel guilty for her feelings.

[melrich]

One more time: Her husband has every right to be upset, but not to blame or make Tigris feel guilty for her feelings.

 

OK. That's fine. And that is all I have been saying in response to your post that first prompted me to reply.

 

but he has no right to be upset that she has already found someone.

 

Nothing about making Tigris feel guilty. That is a whole other issue and I am not about making moral judgements where possible. I believe generally that members are responsible for living with their own decisions but they should not be shielded from being advised as to what impact their actions may have on the feelings of others.

 

Cheers

[darkblue]

I didn't say that he shouldn't be upset.

That was my first response to you, at the beginning of the discussion.

I went on to state it repeatedly.

 

What impact this will have on her husband is quite clear. Of course, he will be devestated - as Tigris has/will be. They have both lost a long-term partner, husband and wife.

 

But now that the relationship has ended, clarity is here and the situation must be evaluated.

Tigris, and her husband can eventually go on to lead happier lives as a result of this coming out.

At first, it will be hard to take in - and of course emotions will be high. But there is finally closure on a relationship which was under enormous strain.

 

He now knows where he stands and has the capability to move on, in time.

[DN]

I guess sarcasm is in the eyes of the beholder.

 

There is always a risk in relationships but that does not mean to say that one should not minimise the risk as far as possible. The 'risk' I took in coming to Canada was taken after consideration of all the ramifications and after time had been taken to make as sure as possible that the relationship was solid.

 

The pursuit of happiness is fine and a worthy objective, but we also have to recognise that there may be a cost to other people's happiness, especially when it involves someone with whom we made promises.

 

The divorce rate would indicate that many people do not really take their wedding vows seriously either before they marry or afterwards. Much unhappiness would be avoided if only people would pause to consider their true feelings before they get married instead of afterwards.

[Bethany]

Hopefully the feelings she has now for the other woman will remain once they have met but I recommend that she visits her for as long as her Visa allows before taking such a giant step as it's insane to say that you are in love with someone you have never met and both need a reality check.

 

For example, what if the other woman decides that it's not working out and asks her to leave, where will she be then? Up **** creek , thats where!

 

Have a Back-Up Plan at least... and that's to BOTH of the women.

[TiredMan]

TiredMan, she did not go looking for love.

 

Doesn't matter. She hasn't even finalized the divorce yet already made plans to "marry". Already "engaged" meaning there was a LOT of talking back and forth. It is emotional cheating.

 

And she knew she had "other" feelings A LONG TIME AGO by her own words and chose not to share them. That is completely irresponsible to a marriage, IMO. I'm sorry but it is.

 

What's next? If a wife is not happy in her marriage, she should just start having sex with a new man. The reason may be valid but when you commit to someone, you have a responsibility NOT to do these sort of things.

[darkblue]

The divorce is finalised, just not legally.

She is waiting until it is legally finalised before meeting someone else - I.e. Not cheating.

And finally, she is not yet engaged - she hopes to be at a later date.

 

And - in my opinion - that is responsible.

[RayKay]

The divorce is finalised, just not legally.

She is waiting until it is legally finalised before meeting someone else - I.e. Not cheating.

And finally, she is not yet engaged - she hopes to be at a later date.

 

And - in my opinion - that is responsible.

 

Um...not sure how it works where you are...but a divorce is not "finalized" until it IS done legally. In many places, how you conduct yourself during a seperation also counts in the divorce proceedings.

 

Obviously, you are going to disagree, but the definition of cheating for the majority of people IS starting a relationship with someone else while you ARE with someone else (whether the feelings are there or not though really I would say in most cheating cases there is some issue with feelings). It does not make a difference whether it is with another male, or another female. For many it does not matter whether it is physical or emotional - they are both cheating for them.

 

In your opinion it may be responsible, but in many many people's eyes as you can tell it is not. You can have your opinion, but so can everyone else. Personally, I would be pretty ticked off if someone pursued someone else while with me (whether it was with a man or a woman, or their feelings were strong or not) because it is about respect and integrity in my opinion. Treat others how you wish to be treated.

[darkblue]

Raykay, where do you see evidence of 'persuing'? - It just happened.

She is not yet in a relationship.

There is no current relationship going on between Tigris and her husband - so where does the cheating come from?