This is TORTURE!

[RayKay]

Raykay, where do you see evidence of 'persuing'? - It just happened.

She is not yet in a relationship.

There is no current relationship going on between Tigris and her husband - so where does the cheating come from?

 

It just "happened" - relationships don't just "happen"....she communicated with this other women, has told her she loves her, and so forth. She is an ADULT and things don't just happen without work. She pursued it because she kept communicating with her.

 

Tigris herself has said on this thread a few times she is engaged and planning on getting married, so that is not a relationship now?

 

The cheating comes from fact there IS a relationship between them. They are still officially married. If there really WAS nothing, she would not of hid it from him, there would be no worries about it...I don't think he was so aware there was "nothing" between them.

 

I really don't see why it is so hard to understand.....they are married, that IS a relationship. She is now engaged by her own admittance to another women. She countless times "pursued" other women - her teacher for one - while in a relationship. That is cheating in many people's books...obviously not yours, but I am not arguing for your side, I am saying in MY books it is cheating, regardless of how many times you try and spin it to tell me it's not!

[RayKay]

She posted this on 10-07-2005...sounds like he did still have feelings a month ago, so I doubt for him the relationship was "over".

 

 

I'd hoped the plane would crash so I didn't have to deal with this problem!

 

I've been home since 1st October. When my husband saw me at the airport he smiled and kissed me. It was obvious that he cared. I kissed him but I felt no emotion.

 

The next day as soon as I saw my next door neighbour I had this sudden urge to go over to her put my arms around her and kiss her passionately. The thing that stopped me was my husband was right behind me. I just stood there grinning at him.

[darkblue]

Ugh. Tigris can correct me if I am wrong - But she is not in a relationship.

In my eyes - the relationship has been over for some time now.

She is not attracted to her husbad; or any other male..

She has feelings for someone living in Australia.

 

If that is cheating in you books - disapprove. But I will stick by Tigris's judgement to seek a happier life, which is truer to herself.

It is also more than likely a relief to her 'husband', who has now got the chance to move on and realise that the ending of his marriage was not his fault.

 

I feel like I'm speaking another language here.

Tigris is lesbian. Her marriage is over, in my opinion - others may see otherwise for 'legal' issues; very well. She has met someone who she has a chance of being happy with - and she is going for it. And I for one, wish her the best of luck.

 

It never really bothered me what people think, anyway - so it comes as no surprise when I say - I disagree.

With the fact that she is 'cheating'; that her husband has every right to blame her for ending the marriage, and that she is making a mistake by possibly entering a relationship in the future, with a women she knows, and has feelings for, now.

[darkblue]

Raykay, that proves my point - she was puting on a charade to her husband, which he did not deserve and now does not have to live with!!

 

I kissed him but I felt no emotion.

I mean, how is that to live your life?

What resolutions can come from it?

How is it wrong to find happiness while LEGALLY married?!

 

The relationship/marriage is NOW dead - emotionally.

But she is emotionally cheating?! What kind of twisted logic...

[TiredMan]

She already cheated when she was married and start communicating emotionally with anyone else. When she was hoping her neighbor, and other females would return her advances. Her emotional cheating with someone online. It's all cheating. Not only did she cheat once, she did it many times. If a husband and wife are married, and the husband (while still married but feelings were going away or gone) decides to try to pick up every woman out there, is it NOT cheating? It doesn't matter if her feelings changed for men. She should have not tried anything with anyone until the marriage was over. There is no middleground there. It was cheating.

 

By your logic, hey if you're legally married as a man, and you don't think your wife is superhot, hey why not try for something hotter? Who cares who you hurt or the bonds of marriage? If something better looking comes along and it makes you feel happy to be able to get a "hotter" women, you should go for it correct? If that is the mindset of anyone, they should NOT get married at all, ever. Let's paint a hypothetical. If the divorce goes thru, and she married a woman. And during this marriage the other woman decides to keep her options open and chat with men, and then finds one and want to be with him over Tigris and Tigris is destroyed by it. I guess you will say the other woman did nothing wrong either?

[Hope75]

Raykay, that proves my point - she was puting on a charade to her husband, which he did not deserve and now does not have to live with!!

 

 

I mean, how is that to live your life?

What resolutions can come from it?

How is it wrong to find happiness while LEGALLY married?!

 

The relationship/marriage is NOW dead - emotionally.

But she is emotionally cheating?! What kind of twisted logic...

 

I don't think the point is that Tigris should be trying to regain feelings for her husband, or that she should not find happiness eleswhere. I don't think anyone is trying to contest that.

 

I think, and correct me if I am wrong, what people are trying to say is that, out of respect for the marriage which is in the process of legally ending, and is recently emotionally ending for her husband, that perhaps she could wait until the divorce is final to become engaged to someone else, and profess her love for someone else.

 

It's hurtful to her husband, who is trying to come to terms with everything still, whether it is an 'acceptable' time frame for him to do so or not. I think it is just out of consideration for someone, regardless of whether she is in love with him anymore or not, she made a vow to and at one time cared for and ever loved, and who is hurting now.

 

I for one am not asking you to agree with me, but just wondering if you can see my logic.

[darkblue]

Hope, yes, I can see where you are coming from - but I don't agree.

For one, her husband was not meant to find out right now.

Secondly, (correct me if I'm wrong) She is not actually engaged just now.

And most importantly - the marriage was emotionally ended a long time ago - it is now only a marriage on paper, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Yes, it is hurtful to her husband - I accept that.

But I don't think it's beyond comprehension that she has found someone else, and that is such a terrible thing.

[darkblue]

I'm not sure if I should even be replying to this, diluded post.

But I'd hate to think that you actually have it in your head that I think this way, or have twisted what I said to mean it.

 

She already cheated when she was married and start communicating emotionally with anyone else. When she was hoping her neighbor, and other females would return her advances. Her emotional cheating with someone online. It's all cheating.

I believe that is a matter of opinion.

Emotional cheating... Is there any way that you could go to a judge in the U.S. and file a divorce on the grounds of 'emotional cheating'?

Or is it truly a made up term given in order to keep the stability in a marriage, and pass blame to those who seek comfort outside it?

 

Not only did she cheat once, she did it many times. If a husband and wife are married, and the husband (while still married but feelings were going away or gone) decides to try to pick up every woman out there, is it NOT cheating? It doesn't matter if her feelings changed for men. She should have not tried anything with anyone until the marriage was over. There is no middleground there. It was cheating.

Please, find the quote from Tigris that said she was having rampant sex with another person - I must have missed that one.

 

By your logic, hey if you're legally married as a man, and you don't think your wife is superhot, hey why not try for something hotter? Who cares who you hurt or the bonds of marriage? If something better looking comes along and it makes you feel happy to be able to get a "hotter" women, you should go for it correct? If that is the mindset of anyone, they should NOT get married at all, ever. Let's paint a hypothetical. If the divorce goes thru, and she married a woman. And during this marriage the other woman decides to keep her options open and chat with men, and then finds one and want to be with him over Tigris and Tigris is destroyed by it. I guess you will say the other woman did nothing wrong either?

I would also like to see where I said that marriage should be ditched if a better person comes along.

Tigris was unhappy in her marriage for a long time before this happened - and I assume, so was her husband.

 

Don't just take what I said and mold it into what would make me look the worst - add some perspective to the situation and you will be able to see where I am coming from.

[RayKay]

Hope, yes, I can see where you are coming from - but I don't agree.

For one, her husband was not meant to find out right now

.

 

 

So dishonesty makes it right. Hmmm. He was not meant to find out because of the divorce proceedings, she was advised not to tell him because it could harm the proceedings.

 

Secondly, (correct me if I'm wrong) She is not actually engaged just now.

Read the pages in the middle and beginning of this thread where she consitently refers to her as her fiance, and fluggy calls her HER fiance. That means "engagement". And have said "I am engaged". Are you reading the same posts we all are?

 

And most importantly - the marriage was emotionally ended a long time ago - it is now only a marriage on paper, as far as I'm concerned.

On those same pages she also says she cares about her husband, but not in love with him. So now that is a reason to cheat? There are numerous people on this board whom break up with someone before they pursue someone else if they feel that way, or divorce them.

 

But I don't think it's beyond comprehension that she has found someone else, and that is such a terrible thing.

Maybe not for you, but for most it violates the meaning of a commitment. It is beyond reprehension....no it usually is not until someone themselves is cheated on and finds out how destructive it is. Because they had no idea their partner was planning on being with someone else while wtih THEM.

 

It's not the first time she pursued others.

[darkblue]

She is still legally married, but the marriage has been emotionally long over for them both.

No it does not give her reason to persue another relationship - but it gives, in my opinion, it gives her closure on her marriage. Now she has found (not persued) another person.

It could not be helped, in my eyes.

 

Put yourself in her situation - you have found someone who you have uncontrollable feelings for, your marriage is over and you have discovered you are a lesbian.

There is no hope of reconciliating the marriage. There is no way it can be solved. She has every right to be able to find happiness in her 'new' life.

 

I feel this could have been achieved through other routes, which may have made it less controversial. But that is not the case.

Things have to be from now.

Looking to the future. For both parties.

 

I can see why you say, what you say.

I do believe in marriage. I believe in being faithful. But I see this as a situation and not a question of what is right.

 

You have every right to disagree - and I do; with your opinion.

 

Tigris will proceed in what shes is the best route forward for her, and her future.

I am trying to justify why that is a reasonable thing to do.

 

Her husband has right to be upset.

Her future is questionable - but looks bright if all goes well.

 

Her feelings must be very confused right now. Finding out she has feelings for someone else, and that the person is female.

If she had no problem with it - the topic heading would not be "this is torture".

 

I have my opinion, and you have conflicting opinions. Very well.

[RayKay]

Emotional cheating... Is there any way that you could go to a judge in the U.S. and file a divorce on the grounds of 'emotional cheating'?

Or is it truly a made up term given in order to keep the stability in a marriage, and pass blame to those who seek comfort outside it?

 

Actually, yes, you can. Do some searches on it, it is considered valid. It is dishonest, breaks trust, hurts your partner.

 

It's not a made up term, emotional infidelity is very very real for most people. And with valid reason for most. Blame SHOULD be passed on to those who seek comfort outside of it..sure the other spouse maybe responsible too, but there is no excuse for cheating. Break it off before you move.

 

 

Please, find the quote from Tigris that said she was having rampant sex with another person - I must have missed that one.

 

She does not need to have physical sex to have an affair by some definitions, which is what we are all trying to say. For you maybe you do, but for others that is not the case. I don't think you can change OUR definition just as we can't change yours.

 

 

Tigris was unhappy in her marriage for a long time before this happened - and I assume, so was her husband.

 

Yet she herself has said that her husband loved her, and was devastated....he may have been unhappy, but he still loved her. No marriage or relationship is happy round the clock. Does NOT mean there are no feelings there, at least from one side.

 

I think plenty of us have added LOTS of perspective, as have you. You choose to disagree that it is cheating, that is FINE, but for most emotional cheating IS cheating, it is often just as or more destructive on a relationship. Just because it is over in the mind of one person, does not make it right to start something up with someone else, or mean it is over for the other person at all, especially when they have no idea the other is already engaged to someone else.

[darkblue]

This seems to revolve around emotional cheating.

Ok.

 

What exactly did Tigris do that is classed as emotional infidelity?

[darkblue]

Due to increasing conflict on this thread, I would like to make my position very clear.

 

I do not approve of every aspect of how Tigris handled this situation.

I agree, it could have been approached with more tact, and in consideration to consequence.

However, no one can undo what has been said and done.

 

Tigris came to the conclusion that after a long period of self-blame, she was not to blame for her feelings.

She accepted that feelings cannot be helped. Obviously, she still cared/cares about her husband. But she was put in the situation with two options:

Continue to be false, and play along with the charade of marriage, knowing that she was dicontent in the relationship. Which would have been unfair to both parties.

Or, be truthful and honest to herself. Accepting the fact that she was a lesbian, and mistakes had been made.

 

The latter option was the only option I would have suggested.

 

Now, the fact that she has now found another woman of whom she has significant feelings for - is irrelevant, in my opinion.

The marriage is now over.

Her husband now has the truth, and has to accept it. Over time.

I am not saying, nor have I ever said - that he has no right to be upset at the loss of his long-term partner.

 

Holding resent towards, and pointing the finger of blame at Tigris - however, I feel, was the wrong way to go about being upset.

 

Yes, he loves her - but loving someone, and being 'in love' is two completely separate emotions.

I am sure that Tigris still loves her husband, too.

She did not want to hurt him, and under the advisal of her solicitor - she did not want him to find out about her moving to another country to be with soemone else, until the divorce was handled.

 

This is a questionable move, but is now irrelevant and I won't pass comment, or judgement, on it.

 

The situation as it stands is that she 'loves' someone else.

The marriage is over - emotionally and physically. The only way it is a marriage is on paper. And that will be rectified in the near future.

 

I also hold sympathy to her husband for what he is going through. But her husband is not here for me to advise or empathise with.

Tigris, however, is.

And I feel that what she is doing and the future is truer to herself.

 

Albeit, she made mistakes - she is now progressing for the good of her own future.

[TiredMan]

This seems to revolve around emotional cheating.

Ok.

 

What exactly did Tigris do that is classed as emotional infidelity?

 

Talking to anyone else with it leading to an "engagement". She admitted that she tried to get with other women and was hoping they would feel the same way, all while married. She wanted her neighbor to want her back. This all part of it.

 

Lets go one by one then.

 

"1. In 1998 I decided, 'I must be Bi!' I'd never done anything about it so I had nothing to be ashamed of, etc. Once I accepted it then I felt like a great weight had been taken from my shoulders!"

 

Good idea NOT to tell your lifelong partner then huh?

 

"2.In 1999 I fell head over heals in love with a woman who'd worked in the factory whilst I worked in the offices, (We'd worked together for a full year before this happened). Was it really love? Yes. The reason I know is because the same thing had happened when I met my 2nd husband. I saw him and felt like I'd been hit with a gigantic hammer! One day she came up to me, looked straight into my eyes and said, 'I think you need to go with a woman.' I knew immediately what she was saying. 'No, I can't let you sacrifice yourself for me!' Then I said, 'It's not that I don't want to, it's because I know that if I do I'll want you more!' (Part of my heart still belongs to her!)"

 

So falling head over heals in love with someone isn't emotional cheating?

 

"3. In 2004 I made friends with my new next door neighbour. I discovered she had emotional problems and would turn to drink to get rid of them! She cried a lot and mentioned on a few occasions she ws going to commit suicide! I was going through depression. We used each other to lean on."

 

I guess her making moves on this neighbor, which admitted to, isn't trying to cheat?

 

"4. This year I discovered I'd 'fallen' for my college Psychology Teacher. I decided to tell her the truth because I was supposed to be going back to college in September for the next level. Also I thought if she was aware of the situation then she would see the danger signs! I actually asked for her help. I wanted information that would tell me what was going on with me. Unfortunately, she panicked said, 'I'm straight! I don't know enough Psychology to help you.' I asked, 'Will you still agree to teach me in September?' 'If I ever see your name on my list again I'll have to tell my superiors."

 

Seems to me she was trying to cheat a lot but the feelings weren't returned to her.

 

and finally this "engagement".

 

This is the rampant emotional cheating I am talking about. It's the same as if a couple is married and the man tries to get with other women but they don't return his affections. He is TRYING TO HAVE AFFAIRS.

 

Oh and let's go back to the next door neighbor again. "One day I was talking to her in her kitchen. I knew I was having a 'naughty' day. I was supposed to go around earlier but I couldn't because the feelings were at such a high level I'd have grabbed her and kissed her"

 

Now is wanting to kiss someone else while married not considered cheating anymore either?

 

I mean seriously. She didn't just discover she liked women and started talking to some woman and something happened now. She realized this like 7 years ago and tried to get with every woman she came into contact with. And he shouldn't be upset that his wife would do this? Cmon!

 

And if you look in a later response, she shows that this behavior is a pattern. She got engaged to one guy WHILE MARRIED to another.

[Tigris]

My husband doesn't know about the engagement!

[Tigris]

I also want to point out that I was still married to my 1st husband when I got engaged to my 2nd husband! He didn't feel guilty then!

 

Secondly, I did tell him in 1999 the truth about thinking I was Bi. I did explain everything about my childhood etc., that it wasn't his fault.

 

Finally, I am engaged, however fluffy_girdlebuns has not got the ring yet! On February 18th (her birthday), I am taking my fiancee out for a meal and am proposing to her properly on bended knee!

[Tigris]

I have told my father that I'm in the middle of a divorce, however, I have not told him about my sexuality. My 2 sisters want me to keep that secret, however, I have decided to tell him after I return from Australia in February. That way if he asks me the question, 'How do you know you want a woman?' I can answer him truthfully and say, 'Because I've already slept with one!'

 

Since my husband went to live with his parents I've seen him 4 times. Yes, there have been occasions when I've been upset when he has left the house but I know I made the right decision. It was not fair to tie him to a false marriage!

 

I've discovered that he hasn't been listening to a word I've been saying for months! I've been telling him for over a year how to pay credit card bills, etc., in case I ever ended up in hospital and he didn't know what to do. He returned today with the paperwork I'd given him and said some of these haven't been paid? I explained I'd told him that before he left that they needed urgent attention and that's why they were paperclipped together in a separate pile to the ones already paid. He's coming back tomorrow so I can explain it to him again! Let's hope this time he doesn't come in and put the tv on (like he did today) and listens to what I have to say!

[darkblue]

Yes, there have been occasions when I've been upset when he has left the house but I know I made the right decision. It was not fair to tie him to a false marriage!

Which was what I was trying to get accross.

[melrich]

In Australia also "emotional" cheating is recognised equally as physical cheating in terms of weighing what are called "Section 72" factors.

 

We actually have "no fault' divorce here but Section 72 factors determine how property is split up.

 

In fact the Family Law Court recently released data that showed in Australia, "cyber" or online relationships now caused more marriage breakdowns between couples that actual physical relationships. I can't quite recall the numbers but it was by a fair margin, from memory over 60% where an "affair", physical or emotional was involved.

 

You can read all the transcripts if you google up "Family Law Court" set search option as .au

[melrich]

I actually found a link to the article I read. This is taken from the leading broadsheet in Oz. On re-reading it I found the "60%" figure is actually quoted from the states. There are also references to teh UK here.

 

I think it describes well the burgeoning problem of online affairs.

 

 

[Tigris]

I'm seeing the Solicitor later today. I presume it's to do with the next stage of the divorce?

 

My husband comes to the house on a Friday to pick up his mail. The only mail he gets is credit card and loan debts!

 

Last Friday he came in and promptly started raising his voice and complaining about his job, again! So straight away the 2 dogs are frightened of him again and hide behind me! He's not happy! And why am I not surprised? Because he's been like this with every job he's had since 1992! (My first husband was the same and they're both Gemini's!) What is it with men? I stuck at a job for 2 years during our marriage and I hated it and it was killing me day by day! It was one of those jobs that finished when it finished, whether it was 3am or 6am or 9am! It started at 3pm! Some weeks I worked 70 hours!

 

When I walked in on a morning at 5 or 6am he'd greet me as he was getting ready for work with, 'This is bloody ridiculous!' I'd just put my hands in the air and say, 'Just leave me alone, I can't deal with this, I'm too tired. I've got to be back at work for 3pm!

 

That's the job that made me ill and he complains about the slightest little thing that goes wrong. It might be the way somebody gives him the money for their bus fare, or because they don't say thank you or a driver being in the wrong place in front of the bus. He's even worse when he's driving the car, I used to get frightened!

 

So he's not happy, so he rushes through to the living room and picks up the telephone directory and looks for the phone number of his previous job which I hasten to add, he was sick of last year in September! It's less money but he'll be living in hotels, etc. (Well that's his problem when he can't pay his debts off!)

 

I'm sure he still thinks I'm going to deal with all the debts paperwork that belongs to him? I gave him it one week and he brought it back 2 weeks later and left it on the table in a carrier bag. The whole idea of him coming to see me that day was because he wanted me to explain what to do?

 

When he visits I make him feel welcome. I try to talk to him about general things so I don't upset him. Last Friday I explained to him that because I'm going to get the 'Income Support' benefit we should be able to get the central heating fixed and all the grant repairs done. He seemed okay about that. Then I reminded him that we'd have to live in the house for 5 years before we sold it otherwise we'd have to pay the money back. Suddenly he left the house and never said 'bye'. I have no idea what happened?

 

[darkblue]

Most of these questions should be directed at your husband.

Unfortunately, men are not so typical that they share a pattern of behaviour.

 

Though it is a common belief that men complain more than women.

That would take into account the constant voicing of discontent with his job.

 

When approaching him - be civil, and hopefully he will treat you with respect.

Ask him what he intends to do about the debts, etc.

But do not ask him about his personal life - I.e. Do not ask him why he wants another job, etc. That's just asking for trouble.

 

Good luck at the solicitors. It should just be routine.

Take care.

[Tigris]

You were right DarkBlue it was only routine! I had to sign some more papers and do a sworn affidavid at an independent solicitors. According to my solicitor I should be divorced in 9 weeks.

 

The Citizen's Advice Bureau went well too. The Financial Adviser says that she's going to put the debts on hold for a month so we can get a new financial statement together.

 

As soon as I'm back from Australia in February I'm going to have to knuckle down and save as much money as possible and get rid of my debts! I get so frustrated at being in such a mess! I always feel like this ](*,)

 

Well, I'll just have to keep looking after the pennies and let the pounds look after themselves!

[Tigris]

I wish my financial situation was sorted then my Faincee and I would be together sooner. It's killing us being apart! We've had a lot of problems ot overcome in the last few weeks but it's made us more determined to succeed.

 

She phoned yesterday with good and bad news. The bad news is she's lost one of her garnet and diamond earings. She's very upset about it because there's a matching necklace too. She could claim the money off the insurance but it's not worth it because the excess is more than the earings! I'm going to buy some more and take them out in February. These were the first present I bought her!

 

The Good news is she's changed her surname to mine. It was a lovely surprise. I feel honoured!

[RayKay]

I wish my financial situation was sorted then my Faincee and I would be together sooner. It's killing us being apart! We've had a lot of problems ot overcome in the last few weeks but it's made us more determined to succeed.

 

She phoned yesterday with good and bad news. The bad news is she's lost one of her garnet and diamond earings. She's very upset about it because there's a matching necklace too. She could claim the money off the insurance but it's not worth it because the excess is more than the earings! I'm going to buy some more and take them out in February. These were the first present I bought her!

 

The Good news is she's changed her surname to mine. It was a lovely surprise. I feel honoured!

 

That is too bad about the earring...I hope it turns up. Why would claiming the insurance not be worth it if the excess is more then the earrings? Do you mean the deductible is more then the earrings worth?

 

That's a big step to change her name already....I guess if her last name was girdlebuns I would change it too Did you know ahead of time she was doing that?