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My boyfriend wants to fix things before he propose


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I spent about two months of my paycheck on that place, and I tell myself that even if it is for just half a year, I lived comfortably. I would have to pay this much for rent if we were not together, so that money would still go missing. 

I understand all of yours concerns, but please, dont state it as a fact that I should not prepare my future with him because it is an obvious fail. I had a porblemless relationship for 4 years before this one. We didnt have to work on anything, because most things just came by itself. And he got bored. We could not show off anything we achieved together, because all was good. Now, in my current relationship, I can say that we grew. He lied to my face, like he was telling just a casual story. Now he comes to me with every detail by himself. Our sexlife was selfish and immature, now we have the best ever, filled with joy, excitement and shared pleasure. We were screaming, slamming doors, crying without being heard. I rarely cry and if I do, I simply tell him to give me a hug, because he offended me, and he comes and all is good. Our only, and only problem is the resentment we feel towards each other. He stopped watching porn regulary (and I feel like I would be okay with porn in a few years, just with boundaries that doesnt hurt our relationship) and stopped lying, and even if he does, he comes to me saying "that wasnt true, sorry, just came out". I still feel disgusted by those times he lied about it, but if he keeps showing me that he wants to be better, and if I love him, I should give him a chance.

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12 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Does your boyfriend also get really into this home decor thing you're into?

He doesnt care about it, but he takes his part in doing the walls, finishing the flooring, electricity, doing the hard work. But if I show him the things I want, he sits down with me and listens, or tells me his opinion and liking

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3 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

I spent about two months of my paycheck on that place, and I tell myself that even if it is for just half a year, I lived comfortably.  

That's true. However it's a precarious position to be in to have your landlord be your BFs family. 

Try to skip talking about rings wedding and expensive things. Perhaps talk about the legal protection you would like through marriage. That makes a lot more sense than strange "4year rule" theories.

In the meantime start saving money for your future rather than investing in a property that belongs to his family. 

Clearly he would like to see more stability and less turbulence for a while before getting legally involved. 

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3 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

I had a porblemless relationship for 4 years before this one. We didnt have to work on anything, because most things just came by itself. And he got bored. We could not show off anything we achieved together, because all was good.

What a bizarre thing to complain about, especially since you would have been extremely young. You're 23 now, and have been with this boyfriend for 4 years. So you were with the one before that when you were, what, 15-19? 14-18? What problems do you expect there to be with a teen relationship? Why is it importnt to show off anything about a relationship? 

It seems that you're trying very hard to justify (to yourself) the drama of this current relationship. You're trying to find a way to make the dyfunction, well, functional. In fact, it sounds like the very things you've perhaps tried to tell him in an effort to get him to propose now that you have had a few stable months. 

It's not a forgone fact that this relationship will fall apart. But it's also unwise to try to force him to propose when he doesn't want to. 

 

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To be honest, two things changed in my mind because of you guys. I let go of the proposal part. On the other hand, I got even more sure that I want this to work. I completely see where you are coming from with the red flag stuff. But I refuse to believe that if 3 years were messed up, 30 can not be good. Mainly because it would also have to apply to myself. I was an effed up person for 23 years, then I should accept that I will be for life. Hell no. My lazy asset of a boyfriend who could not take any responsibility just became someone who builds a room and all the furniture inside, in his spare time, all by himself. I cant not believe in change when I see it with my eyes. So please, if someone still invests time in me, I need advice on how to let go of my resentment and disgust because of that search history and lies. Because I truly want this to work. 

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26 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

To be honest, two things changed in my mind because of you guys. I let go of the proposal part. On the other hand, I got even more sure that I want this to work. I completely see where you are coming from with the red flag stuff. But I refuse to believe that if 3 years were messed up, 30 can not be good. Mainly because it would also have to apply to myself. I was an effed up person for 23 years, then I should accept that I will be for life. Hell no. My lazy asset of a boyfriend who could not take any responsibility just became someone who builds a room and all the furniture inside, in his spare time, all by himself. I cant not believe in change when I see it with my eyes. So please, if someone still invests time in me, I need advice on how to let go of my resentment and disgust because of that search history and lies. Because I truly want this to work. 

Glad you let go of the "need to get married right away" mindset. 

Why are you so reluctant to let this particular man go?   You clearly have some pretty strong incompatibilities.   Him making some surface level changes does not automatically make you more compatible because you may be able to "tolerate" him better. 

"Resentment" and "disgust" are huge words. That's some deep hurt on your part over pretty minor "issues".   You can't just "make something" work that isn't working, OP. Ask any of us on that have been divorced.  If it was that easy, we'd still be married to our first spouses. 

Let say you have a broken stove.  Sometimes it works, sometimes the burner doesn't turn on.  You think it's worth saving because it sometimes works.  But you still know, it's not really a functional stove in the long term.  Staring at it and saying, " I wish you worked like a regular stove" won't make it so.   

You and your BF are very young to be this worried about staying committed to each other when you have such major incompatibilities.  It's a wonderful thing that you are learning from your mistakes and he is learning from his.  But sometimes, it is better to take those lessons and apply them to a new relationship than to keep beating a dead horse.  My question for you is- WHY?  Why do you feel like you HAVE to make it "work" with this particular man?  Are you scared of being alone?  Are you worried about meeting someone new?  Are you scared of "failure"?   I don't view your relationship with this guy as particularly strong, healthy or happy for either of you, so I'm having a hard time understanding your reluctance to let it go? And who knows if he is interested in returning to someone who still feels such strong resentment and disgust towards him.  I wouldn't want to be with someone who felt that way about me. 

I really do think it's in both of your best interests at this time to take some time apart from each other and continue to grow individually.   Who knows, maybe in 5 years when you are both a little older and wiser, you could return to each other.  

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He can't erase the past. Neither can you.

Do you know if he feels "resentment and disgust" over your previous behavior that by your own admission only ended a few months ago? Should he hold onto that forever? You say he shouldn't, that he should happily accept you as you are right now. Why won't you do him that same courtesy?

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44 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

But I refuse to believe that if 3 years were messed up, 30 can not be good

Nobody here said that. 

What we were trying to get across was that a few months' of stability is not long enough to know if the positive changes (for both of you) will stick. We were trying to help you see why your boyfriend is rightly concerned about proposing now, when the majority of your relationship has been quite turbulent. So, it's good that you have let go of this for the time being. Revisit the idea of engagement later, when you've both shown each other that the changes are indeed more permanent. 

13 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Do you know if he feels "resentment and disgust" over your previous behavior

I was going to ask the same. 

Because if that is truly how you feel, OP, then your relationship is in deep trouble. 

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I think you want to get married for the wrong reasons. Sure it's cool to want to be married and have a family (or not, that's not my point)

My point is, you seem dug in with this guy ignoring red flags and problems because in your own words you refuse to think this was a waste. 

I would never marry someone I had to convince, coerce, beg or threaten to leave if they didn't. 

Healthy relationships last and are happy because both people want the same things and move toward them together.  

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Because when I find someone who we share a dinamic with, I love as a person, who makes me want to work better, who I love my everyday with, I simply dont want to let go. Thats it. I cant type here the whole relationship. I could say that he lets me feel like a woman. Or that he makes me amazing coffee. I could say I love how he doesnt give up even when it takes me 40 mins to finish and his hand is shaking... Or how I love when he says that we should work together on a disagreement. When I find someone who is willing to be better and it is because of me, I just know that I want to be with him. I would never ask anyone why they dont break up with their partner. Because I could never see into their days. I never lnew I could be better until he broke my trust. I could only break that hard because I love him that hard. I would have never gone therapy and realize "wow, I do love him, why did we mess up so much when we clearly are in love?". 

And about the disgust part. I dont know how any person would feel if their loved one told them, looking in the eye, that he doesnt know why they found porn, he doesnt remember any of it. Than later saying, okay, he did watch it, lets say every five or four months, just didnt want to admit and lose you. And a month later admitting to do it once every week and saying that he lied every time because he couldnt agree on it being cheating and he thought you would never find out, because it doesnt have any effect on the relationship.

And after half a year saying that he might had a problem, but now he is fine and he wants to live without it not just for me, but for himself too.  I also was stupid enough to look through his things and that was the reasons for my first post : he watched porn by name many times, not just categories. Which made me think that it is a personal crush thing for men 

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28 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

Because when I find someone who we share a dinamic with, I love as a person, who makes me want to work better, who I love my everyday with, I simply dont want to let go. Thats it. I cant type here the whole relationship. I could say that he lets me feel like a woman. Or that he makes me amazing coffee. I could say I love how he doesnt give up even when it takes me 40 mins to finish and his hand is shaking... Or how I love when he says that we should work together on a disagreement. When I find someone who is willing to be better and it is because of me, I just know that I want to be with him. I would never ask anyone why they dont break up with their partner. Because I could never see into their days. I never lnew I could be better until he broke my trust. I could only break that hard because I love him that hard. I would have never gone therapy and realize "wow, I do love him, why did we mess up so much when we clearly are in love?". 

This many people can relate to loving someone and it not being perfect.

But you're also saying what he is giving you isn't enough and it's really hurting your feelings. 

28 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

dont know how any person would feel if their loved one told them, looking in the eye, that he doesnt know why they found porn, he doesnt remember any of it. Than later saying, okay, he did watch it, lets say every five or four months, just didnt want to admit and lose you. And a month later admitting to do it once every week and saying that he lied every time because he couldnt agree on it being cheating and he thought you would never find out, because it doesnt have any effect on the relationship.

I think you do know.  because you feel like crap. he lied to over and over and then gas lighted you saying it is because he was afraid of losing you. Then turning it again, that he wasn't wrong.  which is it? This is BS. And I think when not "blinded by love" or if you saw a friend in the same situation, it would be crystal clear.

It's also not a "men" thing.  Don't buy into that. Each person is their own and has free will to make choices.

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8 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

So you expect him to forgive and forget your past bad behavior but you feel "resentment and disgust" over his past bad behavior and feel you don't have to forgive him.

Do I have this right?

I never said that? But if we are comparing, lying into someone's face about breaking a boundary is not the same as arguing loudly and saying a "you are stupid". 

 

54 minutes ago, Lambert said:

he lied to over and over and then gas lighted you saying it is because he was afraid of losing you. Then turning it again, that he wasn't wrong. 

There is no right or wrong, just opinions. He didnt feel like it is cheating, so if I tell him it is, he still wont feel like it is. Him having an opinion that differs to mine is okay. Him lying is not. He could have just said that he wont stop using porn bc to him, it is bs that it counts as cheating. As I mentioned before, he spent about 5 years with porn and porn only, no girlfriend. Obvious that even if he wasnt an "everyday jerkoff addict", he still had a bad habit where he could not M without porn. I understand why he used it, it is the lying that hurts. (and a bit of the memory about those names I found) 

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2 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

I never said that? But if we are comparing, lying into someone's face about breaking a boundary is not the same as arguing loudly and saying a "you are stupid". 

I find them equally egregious. 

To reiterate, I agree with him that getting engaged now is not a good idea. And until you can either let go of your disgust and resentment toward him or forgive him as you expect him to forgive you for calling him stupid.

BTW, why would you even want to marry someone you feel disgust and resentment toward? I know, you "LOVE him!!!" But in my world love, disgust and resentment don't go together.

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35 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I find them equally egregious. 

To reiterate, I agree with him that getting engaged now is not a good idea. And until you can either let go of your disgust and resentment toward him or forgive him as you expect him to forgive you for calling him stupid.

BTW, why would you even want to marry someone you feel disgust and resentment toward? I know, you "LOVE him!!!" But in my world love, disgust and resentment don't go together.

Let me tell you an example. Your mother slips one time and screams at you from the top of her loungs. She looks at you with true anger in her eyes. It can stay and you can resent her for it, and still love her for all the other things she does. Yes. I feel resentment, because that lie was truly disgusting. Even thought I understand why he did it. He was sure I would break up if he didnt lie. But then again, I would have not. I would have loved the truth to come out the first time. 

I believe that resentment can be healed. I healed from all the hurt my classmates gave me, the living hell they put me through. I just dont know how to heal this. 

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So you yelled at him only one time? Your earlier posts made it seem like you were difficult for years, not just one time.

I don't believe getting engaged while your boyfriend inspires resentment and disgust in you would be a smart idea and I fully understand why he wants to wait. 

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3 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

Let me tell you an example. Your mother slips one time and screams at you from the top of her loungs. She looks at you with true anger in her eyes. It can stay and you can resent her for it, and still love her for all the other things she does. Yes. I feel resentment, because that lie was truly disgusting. Even thought I understand why he did it. He was sure I would break up if he didnt lie. But then again, I would have not. I would have loved the truth to come out the first time. 

I believe that resentment can be healed. I healed from all the hurt my classmates gave me, the living hell they put me through. I just dont know how to heal this. 

That’s a bad analogy. That’s a reflex from falling and the person being screamed at knows that. Your boyfriend basically has - colloquially- PTSD from the regular arguing which to him seems to come out of nowhere because you escalate it. My sense is you escalate because it’s your way of venting from the disgust and resentment you harbor. 

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57 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

I never said that? But if we are comparing, lying into someone's face about breaking a boundary is not the same as arguing loudly and saying a "you are stupid". 

 

There is no right or wrong, just opinions. He didnt feel like it is cheating, so if I tell him it is, he still wont feel like it is. Him having an opinion that differs to mine is okay. 

I think both of those things are bad and are reflective of immaturity and inexperience with compromise and compassion. 

This isn't about you having a difference of "opinion".   This is about you having different definitions of what constitutes cheating.  That's a fundamental difference, OP.  Every couple out there has their own definitions of cheating and there's no right or wrong, but you have to AGREE as a couple what it is or isn't or you are incompatible.  Example- My husband and I do not consider hanging out with people of the opposite sex alone cheating in any way.  However, other couple might consider going out to lunch with someone of the opposite sex cheating.  There's no right or wrong here, but you HAVE to agree.  Nothing you can say is going to change a fundamental difference of opinion, which is exactly why he lied to you about it. That's what happens when you don't want to end things, but you know you and your partner don't agree.   

You aren't okay with it at all or you wouldn't be holding onto resentment over it.  You say it's not the porn but the lying about it.  And I might believe that, if you later didn't go on to say that you were upset because he was specifically looking up the same porn star and you were upset that you thought he had a crush on her. 

You can't control how he feels about you at this moment and he was right to put the brakes on.  If you continue to see each other at all, it should be casually- not living together.  OP, please remember this, there's a difference between loving someone and being compatible in a relationship with them.   There's been tons of people in my life I have loved but either was a disaster with or knew I'd be a disaster with due to incompatibility.  Feelings are just feelings.  Every day compatibility is what matters, and I'm sorry to say, but the two of you are not.   I feel it would be healthier for you both to take what you learned from this and move on alone and then potentially later with other people. 

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1 hour ago, bluecastle said:

A story of my own to address your feelings about the porn: 

When I was 18, immature and insecure, I had a girlfriend in college. Whenever she mentioned male friends from back home—thousands of miles away, people from a time in her life when I didn't even know she existed—I did what immature and insecure people do: I made it personal. I got uneasy and wondered if anything "happened" with any of those guys. And I would ask her. And ask and ask and ask, obsessively. And she would say no, nothing happened. But eventually, worn down by my prying, she told me that, yeah, stuff "happened" with one or two of them. 

Now, if I wanted to lawyer it and dodge all personal accountability in the above dynamic, I could say: She lied to me! Right to my face! Over and over! The betrayal! The disgust! And so on, and so forth, holding onto that story with  righteous indignation and feeding that poison by spending untold hours of my own staring at those dudes on social media. Who knows? Maybe I did some version of that. It's been 25 years since then, that was a short relationship, the details are pretty blurry, and there was no social media back then anyway.

The reason I'm sharing it with you is because—not just today, as I'm in my 40s, but probably just a few years later, after I'd grown a bit—I see the whole thing not as a story of egregious "lying" but as a laughable story of immaturity and insecurity, all around. Had I been more mature, more secure? I wouldn't have needled her about some random dudes, putting her in an impossible position where she knew the "truth" would create pain and drama—for me, for her, for us, and so she chose to avoid that through dishonestly. Meanwhile, had she been more mature, more insecure? She would have told me to cut it out and simply broken up with me if I failed to.

Being that neither of us were those things, yet, we instead acted like children and turned a nothing into a something at the expense of both of our humanity. 

Everyone is entitled to their values, their boundaries, of course. What is a nothing to me can be a something to you—fine. But having just taken a spin through your previous post about the porn stuff, my sincere advice is to see it for what it is, and has always been: a nothing that you two, together, turned into a something.

In short, he did the same thing you yourself have done, along with billions of others, which is occasionally masturbating to pornography. When you responded to this with immaturity and insecurity—interrogating him about this, creating convoluted and hypocritical rules around pornography, becoming more obsessed with porn stars than he likely ever was—he in turn responded with immaturity and insecurity. He lied. And that hurts, I get it. But it would have also hurt if he had been more mature/secure and respectfully told you that's none of your business or just ended things with you when you continued to make it your business. Alas, this is what immaturity and insecurity can do: create situations where the only outcome is manufactured hurt from one angle or another. 

So...

You asked for advice on how to deal with it, and mine is: Laugh at yourself, and him, and you two, and that whole chapter. Then turn the page. Drop the drama and moralizing, and own the immaturity and insecurity. That ownership can serve as a solid foundation to stand a little taller, stop creating these situations together, and let the resentment burn off like the hot air it is and almost always is.  

And if that proves impossible? If you can't yet see the humor in it all? End it. End it because, if you sincerely love him, you don't want him living in a box that allows such little room for human error—and because you yourself don't want to live in the box either, since two people cannot build a world worth living inside in such cramped quarters.  

 

Even at my previous post, your wording makes me understand things more. I have nothing to add, just that I am thankful! 

 

1 hour ago, redswim30 said:

I think both of those things are bad and are reflective of immaturity and inexperience with compromise and compassion. 

This isn't about you having a difference of "opinion".   This is about you having different definitions of what constitutes cheating.  That's a fundamental difference, OP.  Every couple out there has their own definitions of cheating and there's no right or wrong, but you have to AGREE as a couple what it is or isn't or you are incompatible.  Example- My husband and I do not consider hanging out with people of the opposite sex alone cheating in any way.  However, other couple might consider going out to lunch with someone of the opposite sex cheating.  There's no right or wrong here, but you HAVE to agree.  Nothing you can say is going to change a fundamental difference of opinion, which is exactly why he lied to you about it. That's what happens when you don't want to end things, but you know you and your partner don't agree.   

You aren't okay with it at all or you wouldn't be holding onto resentment over it.  You say it's not the porn but the lying about it.  And I might believe that, if you later didn't go on to say that you were upset because he was specifically looking up the same porn star and you were upset that you thought he had a crush on her. 

You can't control how he feels about you at this moment and he was right to put the brakes on.  If you continue to see each other at all, it should be casually- not living together.  OP, please remember this, there's a difference between loving someone and being compatible in a relationship with them.   There's been tons of people in my life I have loved but either was a disaster with or knew I'd be a disaster with due to incompatibility.  Feelings are just feelings.  Every day compatibility is what matters, and I'm sorry to say, but the two of you are not.   I feel it would be healthier for you both to take what you learned from this and move on alone and then potentially later with other people. 

I dont have to agree. Most people here show me paths, not say something as a fact. I think you should not decide that it is a fact we are not compatible either. As I mentioned before, no one sees into a relationship. You only hear about the things I do talk about. Having problems does not mean incompability. And minor incompabilities still doesnt mean incompability in general, only if one cant accept the other. One would say that if I like to sleep until 1pm and my partner until 6am, we are incompatible. No. If he doesnt care because he can get on with his hobbies and stuff until I wake up, and as soon as I wake up I spend time with him, that is a compromise. Weird example, but true. I think porn is bad because of the kinds he likes, he thinks they are not bad. I can decide to be okay with some kinds of porn, and he surely can say "okay, that can work too". If he says no, I only get turned on by Shakira, that is incompatibility. Also, having trouble with feelings and understanding because we came from broken families but still woking on ourselves is NOT a bad thing, rather a good sign

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You're all over the map with your feelings but I believe, like everyone have mentioned, that it has a lot to do with immaturity.

Can I ask you how many times you've yelled at your boyfriend that he's stupid? I understand that we say things in the heat of the moment, but if you constantly say the same line when you both fight, I wonder if some of his reservation come from feeling disrespected.

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47 minutes ago, LootieTootie said:

You're all over the map with your feelings but I believe, like everyone have mentioned, that it has a lot to do with immaturity.

Can I ask you how many times you've yelled at your boyfriend that he's stupid? I understand that we say things in the heat of the moment, but if you constantly say the same line when you both fight, I wonder if some of his reservation come from feeling disrespected.

The word stupid was an example. Idk what words I used, because as I try to forget about his pornstars, I try to forget my mistakes, too. And also, I think I mentioned before that I was mentally unstable. Even if I wanted to remember what I did or said, I could not do that 

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