Am I wrong here?

[JandJMom]

Am I wrong here? I'm going to try to keep this short. 

My boyfriend has a very close friend.  They've been friends since he moved here 10 years ago and she's helped him through a lot, with his ex and with his kids.  They've never been together romantically or sexually.  But, they would do everything together, so even now, there are people who think that they are together. I've known about her almost since day one, but didn't meet her until 9 months in, which he was kind of defensive about me meeting her.  He said that he doesn't have much family and that she is like his family, so meeting her, his only friend, was a big deal and he didn't want me meeting her unless he thought we were staying together.  We were at a BBQ at her house and people were asking who I was, and when he told them, they asked when him and said friend broke up?  His friend laughed and said that they were never together like that.  Just they're really close and that "he can't help how other people see them".  My boyfriend and I have been together over a year.  We had a kind of argument about it.  She calls him for everything.  It feels like if she needs a lightbulb screwed in, she calls her.  If she has a problem with her kids, she calls him.  She ended up getting hurt at work and was diagnosed with a traumatic brain injury and he had to drive her around, she wasn't working, so he was buying her groceries.  She went on vacation, he drove her to the airport 3 hours away, they stayed in the same hotel room.  But he was telling me about it and at first he just kept saying he had to take his "buddy" to the airport.  Then as the time came closer, I learned that it was her.  I learned everytime he said "buddy" or "friend" it was her.  Only her.

I don't believe that anything is going on.  I just don't understand why he can't just say me and said friend are doing whatever.  We had an argument about it.  One, I was uncomfortable about people always thinking they were together.  I asked him what they were doing to make people think that they were a couple?  That's when he said that he can't help what other people think of them.  It's just not true.  They're just really close friends and he doesn't have anyone he can trust like that. He said that if they would go shopping together for like a couch or something, they would act like they were married to get a better deal or something. He just bought a couch in February, I was supposed to go shopping with him for it, but the one day he asked, I had to do something with my son.  So he asked her to go and they did it then.  I know this sounds stupid, but I told him I was really uncomfortable with that.  They sometimes do act like a married couple, but it's because they've just been doing stuff together for so long.  I feel like an outsider to them.  And sometimes, I really do feel like why aren't you with her, why are you with me?  It does make me insecure.  But he says I don't trust him and that it's my problem.  I asked that day if he could just, you know, just tell me when they're together.  A lot of times, he's with her and just doesn't say it and I just find out through him talking that something that he was telling me that he was doing, stupid stuff, shopping or whatever, he was doing it with her.  He was actually mad that night but he told me that he just doesn't think about it but he will try to tell me.  He told me, though, that he wants to be with me and that I need to trust him.  That if he didn't want to be with me, he wouldn't.  I need to stop stressing over us, because our relationship shouldn't add any stress to my life.  It should make it better.  He says that, but I just don't understand why he can't see it from my point of view?

Leading to last night...We have family in town.  I live with my parents to save up money, plus they live in the same town that my ex and I live in, so my kids can keep going to their schools.  I had originally planned to stay over my boyfriends house and my kids were going to go to their dads.  But my kids wanted to spend more time with their cousins and my daughter asked if I could stay with them, whatever.  So I changed that.  So maybe he was annoyed, but it literally would have just been to sleep there, like 10pm until 6am, and I'd get up and go to work.  But maybe he was annoyed with that.  I barely heard from him yesterday.  I tried to ask what he was doing, but he didn't answer.  I asked three times while I was at work, but I barely got any responses from him and he never would answer what he had planned for the afternoon.  I was planning on going to see him for a few after work, before I went to my family's to have dinner with them.  No big deal, it was Saturday and he was probably busy working on his truck and stuff.  It was cool, I'd talk to him later.  He texted me around 6 and said that he hoped that I had a good day at work.  I told him that it was ok, it was crazy.  I told him that I missed hearing from him and all that.  I asked him what he'd been up to all day?  I asked if he was working on his truck?  And he just replied, "well, I was going to tell you all about my day when I saw you but I guess 🤷".  And I was mad at that a little bit.  We're not kids.  But whatever, I didn't want to argue.  I just told him that he knew I had family here and that I was actually trying to ask him what he was doing all that day, but he never answered. I told him that I just figured he was busy and would talk to him later.  I left it at that.

Anyway, I feel a little bad and I had about an hour before I needed to go pick my 16 year old up from work, so I go over to his house and call him to let him know I'm there.  He comes to let me in and is just like "oh yeah, (his friend) is hanging out.  She's on the couch".  I just nod and laugh and go hang out.  He doesn't say anything to me.  I talk with her, I like her, I have no problems with her.  But I realize that they've probably been together the whole day.  That's why I've barely heard from him.  I talk to her, i need to go pick up my daughter so I leave.  I honestly try to leave alone, but he walks me out.  He hasn't talked to me the whole time I was there, but it's whatever they were watching a movie I was talking to her.  He laughs and is like, yeah she just was bored.  I'm so tired of her though, I'm going to take her home now.  I just laugh and say yeah yeah yeah and he kisses me and I leave.  

I know they're not sleeping together or anything.  But for some reason, the way he just doesn't tell me when they're together, even though that's the only thing I asked, just makes me so insecure.  I just don't understand why he makes a point to keep it from me.  Is it because he thinks I'm going to get mad?  Does he really just not think that it's a big deal?  Is it in protest, because he doesn't want to see like he's checking in with me or whatever?  My feelings are hurt though.  Last night, he texted me goodnight and that was it.  He just texted good morning, like nothing even happened last night.  And I don't even know what to say?  Maybe I shouldn't even be hurt by it.  They technically weren't doing anything wrong.  I'd never ask him to not be friends with her or not hang out.  I'm not even asking for an invite or anything.  I'm just asking that he just say "hey, me and so and so are going to get some food".  It's just weird that he hides it like that.  I really wouldn't care at all if he was just up front.  But him not telling me is just annoying me.  And when we talk about it, it always comes back to me not trusting him.  I don't not trust him when it comes to them doing anyway, but I don't trust him not to lie to me about things and I don't like that.  I guess what I'm asking is should he have to tell me that he's hanging out with his friend?

[Wiseman2]

They seem to be acting like a couple even if they're not sexually involved. If you feel like a third wheel in your relationship, reflect if that's working for you. 

Is this the same man?:

 

[Batya33]

If she were a man would you care as much? Because honestly -I would if it was this much time and this much beck and call -meaning she asks him to jump and he says how high.  And it's not his immediate family -I get that friends can be like family but responsibilities tend to shift once there is an SO.  For example my husband was very close with a woman he met in grad school (absolutely no chance ever of them being romantically involved on his end -have no clue if she was ever into him) - and when we were apart (meaning we broke up for years!) he told me for awhile she'd have panic attacks and call him at 3am - and that this became a bit much -as yes he was asleep and she knew that. 

When I was in the picture I noticed she had a very strong personality and was very demanding of attention in general and sometimes I'd want to leave a game night type party like after midnight but she was hosting and "needed" my boyfriend to talk to her more. 

That got annoying.  To me it's up to your bf to have more appropriate boundaries -even if they're not being sexual in any way -she's treating him like an SO and expecting the amount of time and attention that an SO -or I guess son to a mother -would give. 

Frankly I have married friends who tell their husbands to have better boundaries with the MIL because they're neglecting their own family and marriage.  It's fine that others assume they're a "couple" - but he should want -badly- to act in a way to dispel anyone of that notion because he should want everyone to know YOU are his person and no one else.  

 

 

[Jibralta]

JandJMom: if I were in your shoes, I would be uncomfortable with this situation and I think I would have the same (or similar) feelings about it that you do.

[MissCanuck]

Nope. I would not be comfortable with this. 

I am a supporter of opposite-sex friendships, and have a couple wonderful male friends myself. However, I also recognize where every friendship needs appropriate boundaries when it comes to maintaining the integrity of a romantic relationship. Your boyfriend is doing a very poor job of that. 

 

[Kwothe28]

Its an interesting premise. For example, he doesnt need to cheat on you for you not to be put on a priority as her. She gets "full girlfriend" treatment. He is her designated driver, helps her around groceries and she to him, helps her around kids etc. You on the other hand get cold shoulder. He doesnt even want to respond to your messages. If you would ask him for stuff her asks him to do(to help around kids or to drive you around), I am not sure he would oblige. 

Maybe nothing is going on between them. But he definitely puts her as a priority. And that is enough for you to just remove yourself from that relationship. Its not something that would change in time. If she doesnt put you as a priority now, he wouldnt even if you would move in with him. I am guessing that he(unlike you) doesnt have kids. So he probably looks at her as an extension of his family. You are indeed third wheel there.

[JandJMom]

21 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Its an interesting premise. For example, he doesnt need to cheat on you for you not to be put on a priority as her. She gets "full girlfriend" treatment. He is her designated driver, helps her around groceries and she to him, helps her around kids etc. You on the other hand get cold shoulder. He doesnt even want to respond to your messages. If you would ask him for stuff her asks him to do(to help around kids or to drive you around), I am not sure he would oblige. 

Maybe nothing is going on between them. But he definitely puts her as a priority. And that is enough for you to just remove yourself from that relationship. Its not something that would change in time. If she doesnt put you as a priority now, he wouldnt even if you would move in with him. I am guessing that he(unlike you) doesnt have kids. So he probably looks at her as an extension of his family. You are indeed third wheel there.

He does have kids and she helped him out with his kids when they would come stay for the summer.  She helped him when he was going through custody battles and all of that stuff, too.  His kids are grown now and live up north, near their mom.  

I will say, that literally I feel good about our relationship 95% of the time.  I do get to spend a decent amount of time with him, without her.  He hangs out with my kids, when they're not busy.  We do stuff together.  We just went on a week long vacation to his home town. I met the little bit of family that he does talk to, all that.  He told me that I need to stop and that the only way that I'm getting rid of him is if I don't want to be with him anymore.  He said he's only brought two other people up to meet his family and that that should tell me something. He tells me that he's happy with me.  I am actually happy with him.  But she is the only hiccup I have.  And again, not even her, but him not being as transparent as I'd like him to be with me.  

A part of me feels like I am being crazy because I'm almost positive that I wouldn't even bat an eye if she was a guy.  That's why I'm worried about am I overreacting? But I think a part of me knows that this is a weird dynamic though, too.  I'm torn.  I want to be with him.  But it feels like he doesn't care about how I feel about it anyway.  Thats the part that hurts.  😔

[JandJMom]

He asked me about an hour ago if everything was ok.  I don't know how to answer it, so I'm not yet.  Luckily, I'm at work.  A part of me wants to be petty and ask if it would matter if it was or not.  I don't want to fight about it.  I'm honestly just upset because he didn't even want to talk to me yesterday.  Its fine if he was just busy.  But if he was hanging out, even if it was being busy but with her hanging around and not even want to tell me what he did all day, that part hurts my feelings.  But I don't want to fight, and I feel like he'll think I'm trying to fight.   I don't know.  How should I answer him?

[MissCanuck]

6 minutes ago, JandJMom said:

How should I answer him?

Tell him you will talk to him about it face-to-face. 

Don't have these sorts of conversations via messaging. You two need an actual conversation in person. All you can do is explain how this makes you feel. If he thinks you're just trying to pick a fight, you need to ask yourself what kind of partner he really is. 

[Wiseman2]

9 minutes ago, JandJMom said:

 Luckily, I'm at work.    How should I answer him?

"I'm at work, talk to you later". That gives you time to think about it.  He doesn't tell you how often she's there because it upsets you and he has a my way or the highway stance on that.

[JandJMom]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

"I'm at work, talk to you later". That gives you time to think about it.  He doesn't tell you how often she's there because it upsets you and he has a my way or the highway stance on that.

I think you're right about that.  Whenever we talk about it, he gets so mad.  Asking me why I don't trust him and that he doesn't feel that way about her.  But if she needs him, he's going to be there for her.  He said she's important. And he would do the same for me, he's offered to help pay for things.  When it's me and him or us and the kids, he's really good to me.  And he does tell people he's with me.  I just told him that I'm trying to trust that he won't lie to me.  And maybe he just thinks it's not lying, but it's not telling me.  I'm really just upset that he kind of ignored me yesterday and had an attitude that I wasn't staying over his house last night.  It was through text, so I'm trying not to read into it, but I know he knew that he messed up when I showed up there.  He told me I don't ever have to call or whatever to come over, so I didn't.  

[JandJMom]

1 hour ago, MissCanuck said:

Tell him you will talk to him about it face-to-face. 

Don't have these sorts of conversations via messaging. You two need an actual conversation in person. All you can do is explain how this makes you feel. If he thinks you're just trying to pick a fight, you need to ask yourself what kind of partner he really is. 

I feel like we've had this conversation so many times.  It's a little different.  It has nothing to do with her.  It's him not doing the one thing that I asked him to do.  And if he even cares.  I don't know.  A part of me is scared to find out. 

[MissCanuck]

7 minutes ago, JandJMom said:

I feel like we've had this conversation so many times.  It's a little different.  It has nothing to do with her.  It's him not doing the one thing that I asked him to do.  And if he even cares.  I don't know.  A part of me is scared to find out. 

Yes, I understood that.

He isn't willing to take your feelings into consideration when he is not transparent and behaves like a surrogate boyfriend to her. The fact that you have had this conversation several times is not good. 

I think he likes her a lot more than he is willing to admit. 

[shouldhavelearned]

This doesn't sound right at all. Sex or no sex.

[NighttimeNightmare]

I don’t think they’re sexually involved either, if he wanted to be in a committed relationship with her, he would be in one. 
 

but I do think the nature of their relationship is always going to be a repellent for any of his future girlfriends, as you’re finding out.  Sex isn’t all there is to a romantic relationship and I think for most people having this amount of closeness and intimacy with another woman is going to be seen as crossing a line because there are many non-sexual things we do for our partners, relationship perks, that we wouldn’t do for other people. 
 

I think he is obscure in telling you who he is hanging out with because he knows it’s inappropriate…. Or rather… he knows it’s in conflict with being in a committed relationship with someone.  Any of his future gf’s are going to scratch their head at it and wonder if something is going on.  They will wonder why they feel like a 3rd party to their own relationship 

 

it’s just too much attention to a platonic friend when you’ve got a gf at home, IMO. 
 

The big question is, is he ever going to be willing to scale back his friendship with her? And if he does ever agree to that, at what point will the resentment creep in?

[MissCanuck]

33 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

if he wanted to be in a committed relationship with her, he would be in one

Unless the attraction isn't mutual, and she doesn't want to date him. 

 

[Cherylyn]

You have the tolerance and patience of a saint.  🙏  Call me old school or whatever.  🤔  My husband and I didn't and still don't have chummy opposite gender friends.  I'm not disparaging those who have opposite gender friends while in relationships or marriages.  I'm just telling you it's not what we do nor is it our personal preference.  We're each others sounding boards,  vent,  shop,  hang out or whatever whether it was when we were dating,  engaged or now after marriage,  two sons and our life in suburbia.   We confide in each other,  drive places together,  make purchases together especially big ticket items and it's what we do and we like it very much!  We hardly see each other as it is between our jobs and commutes so what little time there is left to spare is exclusively for us and / or family time.  It is non-negotiable. 

We do have friends,  group friends,  married couple friends,  individual friends,  local relatives and in-laws whom we socialize with. 

To be clear,  never brain wash yourself into thinking you're insecure and there's something wrong with you.  Your boyfriend is gaslighting you by deflecting,  changing the subject,  turning it around on you so you're perceived as crazy,  etc.  When he told you that you don't trust him and it's your problem,  it is classic gaslighting right there.  Never fall for that psychological warfare ______ trap.  He's playing you for a fool.  I'm sorry. 

As for you,  either you go or she goes.  I'm not you but if I were in your shoes,  I'd dump him!  Two's company.  Three's a crowd.  ☹️  😡

Should you leave him,  he can have her to his heart's content.  Feel relieved.  Good riddance! 

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

16 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Unless the attraction isn't mutual, and she doesn't want to date him. 

 

Very good point, and one OP should be considering. 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, JandJMom said:

 he kind of ignored me yesterday and had an attitude that I wasn't staying over his house last night.  

In your other thread about him he also complained about this. That you don't come over to have sex/sleep over because you needed to spend time with your children rather than leaving them alone. 

Try to step back and reflect if this relationship makes you happy and if it's going anywhere. As far as his friend, the seem like a couple more so than you two do, except for the sex.

[Batya33]

What got to me in particular was the shared hotel room.  To me unless it's a true emergency that always crosses boundaries even if it remains platonic.  

. I had a really close male friend who did ask me on a date shortly after first meeting me when we were classmates in the mid 90s. I said no. He denies now ever having asked lol. We're still close friends in a sense but we live in different states now.

We never touched or kissed in that way -a platonic hug hello -sure.  He would compliment my looks but again appropriately "you look great" or he'd compliment me and my then date - you both look great!"  I actually never mentioned his looks other than like maybe "nice tie!".  

One night we went out for dinner then back to his place which we did now and again.  He had a roommate -who wasn't home. He asked me if I wanted to watch a movie but the tv was in his room which meant we'd be sitting on his bed.  For that reason alone -I declined -I knew even if nothing happened he was a man, not a woman and it was simply inappropriate to do that and even potentially give the wrong impression.  We never had to speak of it and I'm glad I didn't take that chance (I believe we were both 100% single at that time). I didn't tell him why -simply said "oh I'm tired/time to call it a night."

Your bf has inappropriate boundaries and yes in part because she is a she.  And no it's not your way or the highway but all of us smell a rat.  That's gotta mean something.....

[NighttimeNightmare]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

And no it's not your way or the highway but all of us smell a rat.  That's gotta mean something.....

Yes, and @MissCanucks comment is definitely one to consider 

 

it’s very possible he’s the surrogate bf to his “friend,” who, for whatever reason, won’t sleep or commit to him. So he’s got himself a gf that he can sleep with. He has the best of both worlds. 
 

my assumption is his female friend is single as well, the role of bf/helper is being fulfilled by OPs bf. 
 

what’s the point in having a partner if all of the duties are being fulfilled by your “friend”?

[Cherylyn]

11 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

All of us smell a rat.  That's gotta mean something.....

Once a rat always a rat.  ☹️  😡

[Sally .C.]

There may very well be women who would be comfortable with this, but I definitely would not. And I'm sorry you're going through this because it sounds really hard.

You say that if he were more upfront with you about her, that it wouldn't bother you as much, but likely it wouldn't be much easier, would it? He is open enough about her being his priority, the woman he has on his mind probably more often than a man (in a relationship with another woman) should.

The thing is, you can't change this scenario. You can only remove yourself from it. Their relationship, whatever it is, is going to continue in this way, for years, or indefinitely. Either accept that he has this relationship with this woman, or end the relationship before you get really, really hurt, regardless of whether he cheats.

To be perfectly honest...I think if you end this relationship, you'll wake up feeling relieved the next day.

[Batya33]

53 minutes ago, Sally .C. said:

There may very well be women who would be comfortable with this, but I definitely would not. And I'm sorry you're going through this because it sounds really hard.

You say that if he were more upfront with you about her, that it wouldn't bother you as much, but likely it wouldn't be much easier, would it? He is open enough about her being his priority, the woman he has on his mind probably more often than a man (in a relationship with another woman) should.

The thing is, you can't change this scenario. You can only remove yourself from it. Their relationship, whatever it is, is going to continue in this way, for years, or indefinitely. Either accept that he has this relationship with this woman, or end the relationship before you get really, really hurt, regardless of whether he cheats.

To be perfectly honest...I think if you end this relationship, you'll wake up feeling relieved the next day.

Honestly even if she was his sister this level of involvement is too extreme and this woman seems to believe it's ok -meaning - why hasn't she stepped away -or insisted on it "look you're in a serious relationship now - I'd love to hang out with the two of you and maybe once in awhile you and I can meet for coffee but -spend time with your SO - and I look forward to getting to know her."

[Sally .C.]

True what Batya alluded to above...how is this woman's attitude toward you? Has she shown any interest in being not just his friend, but yours as well? Has she tried to get to know you?