I am feeling lost about my brother

[Modify]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum. I am hoping to find guidance or advice from people because I am feeling somewhat lost at the moment on figuring out what to do.

I am a 32 year old man. I have a 27 year old younger brother whom I am really close with. We grew up as "best buddies" in our childhood, and even as adults I felt like I could trust and rely on him for anything and everything.

We got into a disagreement recently. It was nothing serious, just a misunderstanding that we weren't listening to each other's opinions about a problem regarding pets. Usually for small conflicts like this we would resolve it within a day, if not within hours.

As I was reflecting on resolving the conflict with my brother, I realize that it had always been me who would start the conversation whenever we had a conflict to resolve. It was a habit I had as the older brother, but we're both independent adults now so I wanted to make sure my brother had the willingness to resolve conflicts on his own well. So I had an idea test my brother. I decided I would not start the conversation this time and I wanted to observe how he would resolve the conflict. A week has gone by, I gave him opportunities to talk to me about it. But he would give me cold treatment. So then I finally asked him after a week why he didn't try to talk to me about it or at least to follow up with me to see if I was okay after our argument. He replied to me "you've said what you said, I've said what I said, there's nothing to talk about". I'm like "fine no one cares about our argument anymore last week. But why were you giving me cold treatment?". This is when he told me that it's because I am a "***ing smart ass" that he can't talk to me. Apparently I would not care or change my opinion about anything anyway even if we talked. He has continued to refuse to talk to me after that encounter.

I feel really bad about this as you can probably tell. I did not expect him to say such things. Historically we've always resolved our conflicts between each other so I am dumbfounded about why he would start thinking that we couldn't talk about problems now. I feel like I have been blindsided all this time. He seems to be a mess when it comes to dealing with conflicts. I am having my doubts that maybe my parents and I spoiled him too much when we were growing up so he never actually learned how to deal with conflicts properly.

My brother is usually the one I console with whenever I have difficult experiences like this. So I am feeling very alone at the moment.

[Lambert]

Well, you gave him a test.  honestly that is not only a passive aggressive approach, it also requires the other person to respond in the way you want, without knowing what you want. 

With siblings it is hard to change the behavior and the patterns that have been built over a lifetime.

I think in this case, you should find time to talk to your brother and say,  I heard you and I want to know what I can do to not come across as such a smart ass and make it so that you can talk to me. 

Ask what you can do to make things better. 

obviously you think you have the ability to resolve the conflicts and he doesn't but he told you flat out, your approach doesn't work for him. 

I think you have to look at what you're doing and be open to his suggestions.

doubling down that you are not the problem and it's he that is the lacking party, with this statement:

1 hour ago, Modify said:

maybe my parents and I spoiled him too much when we were growing up so he never actually learned how to deal with conflicts properly.

Takes no responsibility for what you lack.  And brother or not, people do shut down when they feel they are not heard or valued. 

 

[Modify]

12 minutes ago, Lambert said:

Well, you gave him a test.  honestly that is not only a passive aggressive approach, it also requires the other person to respond in the way you want, without knowing what you want. 

With siblings it is hard to change the behavior and the patterns that have been built over a lifetime.

I think in this case, you should find time to talk to your brother and say,  I heard you and I want to know what I can do to not come across as such a smart ass and make it so that you can talk to me. 

Ask what you can do to make things better. 

obviously you think you have the ability to resolve the conflicts and he doesn't but he told you flat out, your approach doesn't work for him. 

I think you have to look at what you're doing and be open to his suggestions.

doubling down that you are not the problem and it's he that is the lacking party, with this statement:

Takes no responsibility for what you lack.  And brother or not, people do shut down when they feel they are not heard or valued. 

 

Hey Lambert,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. 

Yes I have been trying to talk to my brother. But I suppose he just needs some time for now. When I get a chance I intend to ask him how I can not come across as a smart ass.

My dilemma at this point is whether I should give him some tough love or not for him to learn something. As much as I value resolving the conflict with my brother, I also value that he becomes a better person. I don't know if it's too late, but I have to try.

Just some context, my brother has actually always been disrespectful to my parents and other family members. He has a very blunt personality. I would say that if it were not for me always "softening the blow" whenever he says something hurtful, he probably would have burnt the bridge with the rest of our family already. When he calls me "smart ass" I see him actually projecting the problem he acknowledges about himself, and because he feels hurt when he is considered by others as a "smart ass", it seems like he is just using that same criticism on me just to get a reaction.

Frankly ever since he got good fortune from his investments in the stock market a few years back, he has been a bigger pain in the ass. He thinks he has found the easiest way to live life. He doesn't learn anything new or develop any new skills or even work. He is actually in a pretty terrible state as a person even though he is somehow "thriving".

I see him potentially losing all his fortune one day with no one there to support him. And I actually feel terrible about that because I ***ing love him.

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, Modify said:

As much as I value resolving the conflict with my brother, I also value that he becomes a better person. I don't know if it's too late, but I have to try.

That's how you're being a smart ass -you're both adults and  you're not his parent.  My sister is 5 years older than me and she made some bad financial choices when she was married that she is still paying for.  I love her to  the moon and back  - she is in her early 60s, I am in my 50s, we have been close since I was 13.  Very close.  But I held my tongue as much as possible -wish I'd held it even more but holding my tongue is something I've worked hard on for decades and back then I likely overstepped a bit - but my point is that I never tried to be her parent (heck my mother who is awesome also treated her as an adult as far as her choices).  

Are you jealous of your brother's wildly successful career? Looking for ways to feel better about yourself so you can "teach" him how to be a better person? That's not being a friend.  It's being condescending and he's telling you -stop being such a smartass.  Listen to him.

Please don't burn bridges with him -it sounds like you have an awesome connection and relationship worth nurturing.  For sure my sister mothered me to an extent because of our age difference but not in the heavy handed way you described.

[Modify]

Well ya, your point is what I am considering. I probably should be a little less "close" to him in terms of giving him advise or "improving his life". That was our parents' job anyway. But I can't help but feel responsible for how he grew up. And I want to be supportive of his future, that's why I value his future.

I am not jealous of him. If anything I actually have more fortune than him with my career. And my brother respects that. I just didn't make money as "fast in a short amount of time" as he did. So the difference is it seems he doesn't really value hard work all that much because he feels like he can just get free money anytime. I just hope that doesn't bite him in the future.

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, Modify said:

he feels like he can just get free money anytime. I just hope that doesn't bite him in the future.

And it would be his problem if it does. Not yours.

My brother married someone I felt would end up damaging him emotionally and financially. She did. But I kept my mouth shut when he told me he planned to marry her. He was infatuated, to say the least, and wouldn't have appreciated me telling him I think she's bad news. That definitely would have ended my relationship with him.

Sometimes we need to understand when something isn't our business and keep our thoughts to ourselves.

[Modify]

53 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Sometimes we need to understand when something isn't our business and keep our thoughts to ourselves.

Ya, I understand that.

Unfortunately I tend to get involved because I usually end up mediating his conflicts with my parents and other siblings because I really don't want there to be burnt bridges within the family. I have always been the one to back him up. I am getting tired of it though. It doesn't seem like he even appreciates me for doing what I do for him. He lives in a bubble. I feel like he is spoiled largely because of me. He had needed the scolding of others to grow up. I'm thinking I should never really have protected him as much as I did.

The unfortunate thing is I think even when I won't side with him anymore, he will still believe that he is not doing anything wrong. The whole world can be wrong, but not him. Because he believes he is living the "ideal life".

[boltnrun]

Once again, none of this is your issue unless you choose to make it yours. You do not have to mediate between him and anyone else. He's a grown adult and he'll handle his own business. Or he won't. So be it.

You seem overly involved in his life. I would take that focus and shift it elsewhere to something productive that benefits you and your world. Yes, he's a part of your world but it's impossible to control another adult human. So instead, choose to control what's yours to control. 

[Modify]

3 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Once again, none of this is your issue unless you choose to make it yours. You do not have to mediate between him and anyone else. He's a grown adult and he'll handle his own business. Or he won't. So be it.

You seem overly involved in his life. I would take that focus and shift it elsewhere to something productive that benefits you and your world. Yes, he's a part of your world but it's impossible to control another adult human. So instead, choose to control what's yours to control. 

Ya but it just sucks losing a lifelong bond. We have literally saved each other's lives through common experiences. But don't worry, I'll just have to learn to cope with it I guess.

I am also remaining hopefully. I'm probably just whining now but maybe it'll be different lol. Thank you for all the feedback though.

[Wiseman2]

27 minutes ago, Modify said:

 I usually end up mediating his conflicts with my parents and other siblings because I really don't want there to be burnt bridges within the family. I have always been the one to back him up. I am getting tired of it though. 

Sorry this is happening. It seems like you're getting burned out from being the family diplomat and referee.

Unfortunately you're in this family dynamic, just as he's the family "black sheep".  These family patterns and dynamics are hard to break. Including whatever your role in this is.

He's not going to change his basic personality or stance. There's not much point beating your head against the wall time and time again.

If family get involved, let them deal with him directly. As a grown man he needs to live his life as he sees fit. No one can protect or rescue or advise him how to live his life.

Just step back. Get more involved with your own friends and profession and interests and keep things neutral. Don't bother debating with him or getting in power struggles. Just walk away.

[Lambert]

If he has a history of not being able to communicate or act the way you need, how have you coped with this is past? 

How and why is this time different? 

[catfeeder]

6 hours ago, Modify said:

My dilemma at this point is whether I should give him some tough love or not for him to learn something. As much as I value resolving the conflict with my brother, I also value that he becomes a better person. I don't know if it's too late, but I have to try.

This is likely the condescending drivel that frosts your brother. He may have cooperated with it in the past, but you may not realize how it comes off. If you sound anything like this^^^ with him, then it's holier than thou, and that would p'off anyone.

Quote

Ya but it just sucks losing a lifelong bond.

How are you losing a lifelong bond--by demonstrating respect for him?

We don't know the argument, so this isn't about facts or who is 'right' or 'wrong.' Your relationship with your brother is more important than that.

How about modeling some humility for your brother and demonstrate how open you can be to hearing him respectfully, and without 'lessonizing' him?

It might pay off in ways you haven't considered, and you could thank yourself.

[Batya33]

 Do you have children? I have a 14 year old son.  My job is not to give him advice to improve his life -in general I mean -sometimes as an adult parent I have to step in when I see him choosing a wrong path/making a bad choice. Mostly -I want him to come to me and ask me -because that's when it really sticks.  I am his facilitator/encourager/cheerleader - and the best is when he comes up with his own ideas.  When he was very young we got him involved in a team sport -what a disaster.  Lasted one unfun/bad year. 

But this past year - at 14 - his teacher, also the track team coach - talked to him about trying track.  He liked the idea and so I agreed that it was a great idea.  When I stepped in was when he texted me right before his first meet wanting to leave-please come pick me up!!! -he was scared/nervous.  That's when I basically convinced him to stay.  He ended up winning.  He ended up thanking me for convincing him.  I as the adult knew that leaving was a terrible idea given his reasons for wanting to leave -and at 14 he simply couldn't see that perspective. 

But -no -as a parent I don't jump in and advise him what to do - I'm selective - and I think that's right for his growth into an adult.

Your brother is an adult.  I agree with Boltnrun and also stepping aside from this mediator role.

[greendots]

I see things a tad differently. I do feel it is our responsibility to be honest with our family and friends and tell them when they're doing stupid stuff or are headed into a destructive direction. Not in a motherly/authoritarian or pushy sort of way, and definitely no meddling whatsoever, but in one that shows how much you care about them. Right? You love them and so you have to speak up.

That doesn't mean they'll welcome our input in that moment and we need to accept that. I remember when my friend told me what mess I'd be getting into, me not wanting to hear it, and then realizing later on in life that they had been right all along.

So, whatever you told your brother, it's up to him whether he listens to it. Don't harp on it. Keep loving him whether he listens to you or not.

[Cherylyn]

I can somewhat relate because my relationships with my siblings has always been rather dicey. 

You're only human as am I regarding testing our siblings to determine if they have the wherewithal to  resolve conflicts in a wise,  emotionally intelligent (empathetic),  mature manner instead of your always initiating amends.  In my case,  in the past,  I even went so far as to grovel much to my chagrin.  ☹️

In hindsight though,  I hope you realize that it's better to do whatever works in the name of peace as opposed to experiments which have a tendency to fail and sorely backfire.  If you are the mature one and step up each time by making amends and if your relationship with your younger brother is important to you,  then continue doing your MO (method of operation).  If you're sick 'n tired of always being the one to initiate amends,  then learn to detach emotionally by not feeling close to him anymore.  Lower your expectations and lower your standards in your brother because he will not be the man you expect him to be.  You're hurt and disappointed in him if you continue imagining him to be the man he realistically will never be in your eyes. 

As hard as this is to do,  with some people such as your brother,  you're the one who has to alter your behavior in order to have a peaceful relationship.  For starters,  don't insert your opinions unless you don't mind risk engaging in conflicts with him.  With some people such as your brother,  you have to walk on eggshells,  be constantly mindful,  think before you speak and write otherwise avoidable and preventable conflicts occur. 

I have siblings similar to your brother.  What could very well work for you is to use the "grey rock" method meaning be boring as hell.  🙄 If you must speak,  talk about something innocuous such as the weather.  You get the general idea.  Remain as bland as you can be.  It will save you.

You can't change your brother's personality and character nor how he was raised.  It sounds to me that he was coddled just as my siblings were.  Some parents expect maturity more from their eldest child and they are permissive toward younger siblings because by the time they came along,  parents are worn out and too tired to be as headstrong as they were with their firstborn or so I've noticed.  

I too was given the cold shoulder when I didn't initiate amends.  Stupidly,  I groveled in order to get back into their good graces and I would even go so far as to say my mother is the same as my siblings.  These types of people such as your brother,  simply do not care how you feel.  They're too immersed into their own lives to bother with you or how you feel. 

Btw, when your brother told you that you are a bleeping smart ______,  he was gaslighting you.  Gaslighting is deflecting,  changing the subject,  deliberately confusing you and forcing you to look as if you're the insane one and not they.  It's the oldest trick in the book and I've experienced gaslighting courtesy of my relatives all my life.  It's not a joy to have exclusive membership to this nauseating club.  🤢

As mentioned previously,  learn to pull back.  Emotionally detach yourself,  lower your expectations and lower your standards in your brother (or anyone).  When you no longer invest in the relationship nor think of others in higher regard than they deserve,  you'll grow numb and focus on your own life.  You ought to try changing the way you think because this is how you treat yourself as if you matter. 

It's better to feel alone and strong than unhappy and lonely with the wrong type of people in your life family or no family.  Hang tough.  Enforce healthy boundaries.  Remain civil but don't give your heart and soul to those who haven't earned it.   Be pragmatic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Modify]

5 hours ago, Lambert said:

If he has a history of not being able to communicate or act the way you need, how have you coped with this is past? 

How and why is this time different? 

Honestly, my brother and I have always been a good team. We have a lot of similar interests and we've worked very well together from supporting business ideas to playing silly video games. 

My brother usually does not have any reservations whenever he communicates. This can be a good thing because he can always appear confident when he is speaking publicly. I admire him for that. His communication really only becomes a problem internally within our families because he can sound overwhelming and unsympathetic for the wrong reasons which pushes people away.

I've always given him advice to maintain his relationships. Thankfully we do respect each other enough to listen or at least consider each other's advice.

Ironically I know I mentioned that my brother is the one refusing to talk to me right now. So I'm sure he is also feeling very hurt about our situation since he is not usually reserved about sharing his thoughts out. 

I'm sure we'll figure it out. I think I was just in a rotten state of mind from the shock of the situation. But I think it'll get better. I realize his actions do express that he does care about me. Which is where I had my moment of doubt. So I'm feeling content now actually. I hope I am not being too optimistic though heh.

4 hours ago, catfeeder said:

This is likely the condescending drivel that frosts your brother. He may have cooperated with it in the past, but you may not realize how it comes off. If you sound anything like this^^^ with him, then it's holier than thou, and that would p'off anyone.

How are you losing a lifelong bond--by demonstrating respect for him?

We don't know the argument, so this isn't about facts or who is 'right' or 'wrong.' Your relationship with your brother is more important than that.

How about modeling some humility for your brother and demonstrate how open you can be to hearing him respectfully, and without 'lessonizing' him?

It might pay off in ways you haven't considered, and you could thank yourself.

Thanks. I probably do need to watch myself sounding condescending when I talk to him. I am hoping that the next time we talk, the complains we have about each other will just become friendly banter and we'll laugh it off.

The argument was about cats. But I am afraid to disclose the details to you because you are a cat feeder 🙂

@Wiseman2 @Batya33 @greendots @Cherylyn

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this situation. I appreciate all the words of wisdom, experiences, and challenges you have presented.

I realize that in my moment of doubt, it was just seriously me trying to confirm whether my brother actually still cared or appreciate me. If I reflect on it now, my doubt was actually unfounded and stupid. There was no reason for my brother to not care about me. I can excuse my brother for not "reaching out to me and giving me cold treatment". He has a different way of resolving conflicts that mean something to him. And I should really just accept that. The important thing to me is at least I can tell that he cares.

I am hoping I don't bite my words in the next few days though lol.

[Tinydance]

I'm sorry if I sound a bit cold in my response. Especially because I'm an only child so I actually have no experience of even having a brother or a sister. Let alone strong connection with my sibling. I think that now you're older adults, yes you can continue to communicate with your brother. But I don't think you need to "parent" him or try to resolve his conflicts with your parents or anyone else. That is his job to do that. I don't think it's that likely that he'll just magically change. If he's very blunt then that's his personality. In my experience people who are blunt are also stubborn and usually think they're right. I think you're putting too much effort into your brother and taking too much responsibility for him and his way of life.

Maybe I say this as someone who always had to fend for myself in terms of friendships and companionship. But I think you should be focusing on your work/study, friends, dating (if you want to). I understand your brother was your "best buddy" growing up but you can actually have your own life now. You seem very attached to your brother. It's not necessarily a bad thing but as adults siblings usually build their own life. It doesn't mean you shouldn't hang out with him but let him do his own thing and live his own life.

[Batya33]

11 hours ago, greendots said:

I see things a tad differently. I do feel it is our responsibility to be honest with our family and friends and tell them when they're doing stupid stuff or are headed into a destructive direction. Not in a motherly/authoritarian or pushy sort of way, and definitely no meddling whatsoever, but in one that shows how much you care about them. Right? You love them and so you have to speak up.

I don't think that's effective unless the person asks for input or unless it's posed in a genuine way meaning "can I put in my two cents?" and you're ok with "no thanks".  And you have to be sure the person genuinely doesn't know.  Or perhaps it's obvious the person is in denial (but if that's the case is he really going to listen?)

I did give unsolicited input to my sister in just this way many years ago -financial related to protect herself in a legitimate way - sometimes -you are right -the outsider can see what's coming.  I believed she was in denial. She was!

The thing is despite being super close - if the person is not asking there's a reason- and I wasn't authoritarian -but I was single, she was married, she had kids, I did not.  So "what did I know?" (I did know and I was right -with negative consequences).  I wasn't afraid of damaging our relationship. It didn't -she wasn't upset with me -just had excuses/didn't see/chose not to see -what was coming.

The thing is - the only good thing out of giving unsolicited advice was I believed I'd done all I could -but if the person isn't ready/able to listen -then the advice giver also needs to know when to step aside -I sense from the OP that he crosses boundaries in an uncomfortable way and perhaps comes across parental/nagging.

 

[Batya33]

8 hours ago, Modify said:

Honestly, my brother and I have always been a good team. We have a lot of similar interests and we've worked very well together from supporting business ideas to playing silly video games. 

My brother usually does not have any reservations whenever he communicates. This can be a good thing because he can always appear confident when he is speaking publicly. I admire him for that. His communication really only becomes a problem internally within our families because he can sound overwhelming and unsympathetic for the wrong reasons which pushes people away.

I've always given him advice to maintain his relationships. Thankfully we do respect each other enough to listen or at least consider each other's advice.

Ironically I know I mentioned that my brother is the one refusing to talk to me right now. So I'm sure he is also feeling very hurt about our situation since he is not usually reserved about sharing his thoughts out. 

I'm sure we'll figure it out. I think I was just in a rotten state of mind from the shock of the situation. But I think it'll get better. I realize his actions do express that he does care about me. Which is where I had my moment of doubt. So I'm feeling content now actually. I hope I am not being too optimistic though heh.

Thanks. I probably do need to watch myself sounding condescending when I talk to him. I am hoping that the next time we talk, the complains we have about each other will just become friendly banter and we'll laugh it off.

The argument was about cats. But I am afraid to disclose the details to you because you are a cat feeder 🙂

@Wiseman2 @Batya33 @greendots @Cherylyn

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this situation. I appreciate all the words of wisdom, experiences, and challenges you have presented.

I realize that in my moment of doubt, it was just seriously me trying to confirm whether my brother actually still cared or appreciate me. If I reflect on it now, my doubt was actually unfounded and stupid. There was no reason for my brother to not care about me. I can excuse my brother for not "reaching out to me and giving me cold treatment". He has a different way of resolving conflicts that mean something to him. And I should really just accept that. The important thing to me is at least I can tell that he cares.

I am hoping I don't bite my words in the next few days though lol.

I read  this before I posted - you have such insight, wisdom and compassion - I am sorry about the conflict -and cats can be a sensitive topic! - but I really do think you two will find your way back to each other.  

Also was a lot of this on text? I have a very close friend who is terrible at reading texts in the sense of interpretation -where if we spoke in person there would be no issue. Example - her son is a stellar student at an ivy league college.  To make extra money this summer he's working in retail like many college students do.  In context I joked over text  that by next summer he'd likely be making more than I do in my part time gig.  Her response was to confirm -rather directly -that retail was only a summer job - that he had no intention of this being his career, etc.  I mean -duh -I knew that -I know of his post-college plans, his career plans. 

I was astonished she'd think I was even implying that he wanted to pursue restocking at a retail store as his career (obviously that's a great full time job for some people -but I knew it was a summer gig for him).  

Even very close people can get thrown off by the form of communication or timing etc -even a cell phone breaking up where the person doesn't know he wasn't heard.... (had that happen too -sigh).

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, Modify said:

I am afraid to disclose the details to you because you are a cat feeder. He has a different way of resolving conflicts that mean something to him. 

That's true. Some people just need space to cool off. Do either of you have cats? 

[Starlight925]

If I'm hearing you right:

You frequently offer advice and opinions.  Sometimes, you two disagree.  Sometimes, it leads to a total lack of communication, a shut-down.  And always (until now), you are the one picking up the phone to resolve.  Do I have that right?

And now, since you haven't initiated the make-up, you two are still not talking, because he hasn't initiated anything, so you're waiting to see if he does?  If once, just once, he can be the one to initiate communication after a disagreement?

If I have that right:

You are trying to change a lifelong pattern by waiting on one phone call.

You two have interacted this way your entire lives, since childhood.  And now, by waiting by the phone, you are trying to change the trajectory, but he's not getting it.  

These communication patterns, either siblings, or spouses, friends, etc., become ingrained, and the pathways we take to resolve them are set like rivers, in that they always take the same path.  The water flows where it's always flowed.

In this particular case, pick up the phone, resolve this.  And have a heart-to-heart with your brother over your general communication styles, not this particular incident.  Resolve this thing, whatever it is (a disagreement about management of a cat?).  

And once that's resolved, resolve the big thing.  The thing that causes you two to fall apart like clockwork every time there's a disagreement.

If I were to give an opinion here, it sounds like you offer opinions where they weren't asked for.  Sometimes, he agrees, sometimes, he doesn't.  How about just listening, offering support, and keeping your opinions to yourself unless asked?

My mother (passed away) was the most opinionated, stubborn woman on the PLANET.  But she always stayed out of the drama between siblings and their spouses, even the most horrendous door-slamming incidents.

I asked my mom, after one such incident where I had offered an opinion to a sibling that was not well received, which led to an enormous fight, how she always seemed to stay out of these situations, always seemed to stay neutral.

She said something I'll never forget, and I utilize to this day:  "When someone asks for my opinion, I give it.  Otherwise, I keep my mouth shut".

That advice has served me very well.  I have a friend right now doing something I have such a strong opinion of, but I keep my mouth shut, as she's an adult, it's her life, and she hasn't asked my opinion.  I get to keep my opinions in my own head, and I also get to keep the friendship.  LOL, unless she asks....boy, then I'll give it.

 

[boltnrun]

My closest sibling (older brother) and I are very close.  But one thing he does that drives me a bit nuts is he constantly offers unsolicited advice.  And when I politely decline to follow the advice he makes another suggestion.  And another.  And then he throws up his hands and says "well, I'm out of ideas!!!" in an exasperated manner.  And I think "I never asked for advice to begin with so I'm not sure why you're all bent out of shape".  He thinks when I mention something I'm pondering or when I am annoyed about a work situation that means I need him to solve it for me.  I don't.

I get that he's doing it out of caring, but I'm in my late 50s FPS.  I've gotten this far without relying on him to solve every little issue for me so obviously I kind of know how to manage my own life.  And if I stumble?  It's a learning experience.

Don't deny your brother his learning experiences.  And don't think you always have all the right answers, because while they may be right for you maybe it's not right for him.  Have enough respect for him to realize he'll find his own way, even if it's not what you would do.

And I agree, reach out and say something like "hey, things got a bit heated the other day.  Sorry about that.  I was trying to be Mr. Fix It and you probably didn't want or need that.  Can we just put this behind us?"

[catfeeder]

19 hours ago, Modify said:

Thanks. I probably do need to watch myself sounding condescending when I talk to him.

This is a brave thing to consider, good job!

Challenge your ability to actively listen without jumping in. At all. Let brother talk stuff through. This lets him hear himself and try out answers even while feeling supported by you.

My sister's approach to managing adults and raising kids is, "If I say it, then I know it, but that's not helpful to them. If THEY say it, then THEY know it. That's how they get it."

So let brother get there himself, and let him make his own mistakes along the way.

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 I am hoping that the next time we talk, the complains we have about each other will just become friendly banter and we'll laugh it off.

What if you just table your side of the complaints? Pull out of doing the dance that you've probably both outgrown. Credit brother with being an adult instead of viewing him through a lens of needing correction just because you disagree with something. If you're really brave, start letting brother be YOUR teacher for a while.

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The argument was about cats. But I am afraid to disclose the details to you because you are a cat feeder 🙂 

Well, craAp! Now I really wanna know. 🙂

Head high, brother, you've got this.

[greendots]

13 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I don't think that's effective unless the person asks for input or unless it's posed in a genuine way meaning "can I put in my two cents?" and you're ok with "no thanks".  And you have to be sure the person genuinely doesn't know.  Or perhaps it's obvious the person is in denial (but if that's the case is he really going to listen?)

I would definitely discourage anyone to continuously give unsolicited advice. After me blurting stuff out willy nilly and consequently learning heaps of unsavoury lessons, I learnt it's important to know when to keep your mouth shut and when to jump in. Still learning to this day, hehe.

But if you witness someone is going through an unhealthy path (e.g: smoking like a chimney when they don't really smoke at all and being more angry than usual) why not raise your concerns in a "I care about you" sort of way. Asking beforehand "Can I put in my two cents" like you mentioned is great.

As you suggested, unless we're walking in their shoes, who are we to judge others and tell them what to do? Thus, rather than acting as problem solvers, we bring issues that are hurting them to their attention in a "I care about you" way. Make them aware, before it's too late.

 

 

[Batya33]

10 hours ago, greendots said:

Make them aware, before it's too late.

Except -most adults already know the dangers of smoking.  And yes I like your approach! I've also been in situations - most often as an Aunt to my then teenage-ish nieces where they actually asked my advice about the bad boy they  were dating -but didn't like my advice.  Both times I was totally right and both times because they dismissed my input there were negative consequences. Never did the "I told you so." Which meant they did come to me for more advice later on.