No Commitment without Peace!

[Chrysoar]

My girlfriend and I have a long running conflict over commitment levels.  Due to biological clock concerns (we’re both 41), it is important that we marry and start our family quickly.  However, due to early miscommunication, I told her that I didn’t like texting or calling so she decided to leave it up to me to text and call and then became very unhappy when I hardly ever did. Due to this miscommunication we started out on the wrong foot, causing her anxiety over my lack of commitment.  We had agreed that after a year of dating we would either split up or look at taking the next step toward engagement and marriage. However, nine months into the relationship she tried to break up due to the miscommunication. We talked it through, and I started to call her but she still talks about the past. She talks about how alone she felt and how she felt that I hadn’t cared. Also, my girlfriend thinks that because I told her she needed to show me that things could be good, since she introduced doubt in the relationship, that this was asking her to prove herself. I decided after our year mark to move in, since I thought she needed this. She wasn’t happy so I put off making a decision. She had a very long discussion with me about the past that I didn’t appreciate! She said she was just trying to get everything off her chest so she could drop it and move on. But, I decide to stay but not commit and she argued with me so I took a two month break from the relationship. This caused her to behave even worse.
When we got back together my girlfriend seemed like she was really trying, but would have melt downs around her cycle and become very insecure, demand a commitment, and cry hysterically. Causing me to be frustrated and act out too. I feel miserable! Before she tried to break up with me I was planning to marry her soon and have a baby. I don’t know why asking for peace is so hard for her.
My girlfriend is very loving and affectionate but needs a lot of reassurance. I believe this is due childhood trauma and leaving a a physically abusive relationship a year before we started dating. She is in therapy, takes medication for mood swings during her menstrual cycle, and consults a psychiatrist. But, despite all this, we still have repeated heated discussions wherein I feel attacked, which in turn causes me to feel less certain about the relationship. She says all she needs is to feel like she isn’t going to be abandoned. Her psychiatrist says her fear of abandonment and emotional reactivity is very BPD like. I agree! I believe she needs to work more on her mental health and when she is fully recovered I will reevaluate the relationship and decide to commit or not. But, she hates this solution! I told her we are breaking up until then, but I will be in contact to see how her therapy is going or if she wants to talk. She is angry and keeps begging me to reconsider. But I need to see that things are getting better and that she is less emotional, won’t bring up the past and stop arguing with me. Overall, she needs to be mentally healthier. I told my family that we are broken up because her mental health issues are affecting my well being. Now she’s mad at me for that too! 

Anyway, I want to get back with her once I see that she is better. However, Our resulting conundrum is that she feels she needs commitment in order to give me the peace I seek in the relationship, and I need peace in order to give her the commitment she seeks.  We both love each other deeply but this conflict is causing a lot of damage to the relationship, to the point where we don’t know how to move forward successfully.

[Wiseman2]

Please reconsider the relationship. You seem beyond incompatible and almost toxic for each other.

On/off relationships are fraught with unresolved incompatibilities and conflicts combined with an unhealthy attachment and lack of other opportunities.

You're in such an intense stand off and power struggle you're just working against each other wearing each other down. 

Set both yourselves free. This way she can find what she's looking for and you can be free to find someone you don't need to test, fix or change in order to tolerate

 

[Chrysoar]

Thanks! That’s were I’m leaning even though I really do love her! 

[catfeeder]

She’s an anxious attacher and you’re an avoider. That’s a match from hell.

If she’s smart, she won’t fix herself for you, she’ll heal to find someone who’s willing to meet her needs and stay.

[MissCanuck]

You aren't a good partner for her. 

Leave her alone. Let her find a man who is happy to commit and wants her in his life. That guy clealry isn't you. 

[Kwothe28]

Somebody with mental health issues isnt really a suitable partner for a relationship in general, let alone marriage and kids. And somebody as avoidant as you isnt really far either. What do you mean "I gave her 2 months to get better and I will reevaluate our relationship then"? Its not how mental health nore how relationship works. You cant expect her to magically be better in your timeframe, its not how mental health works. Nore you can hold your relationship as some prize if she gets better. If you arent good partners to each other you both can opt out of this and find somebody else for yourself.

[Batya33]

I agree with the above posts.  I can relate in a small way since when my bf and I were 40 -I was almost 41 -we knew we would marry in the next year or so (there were also long distance/relocation logistics to consider) but given our ages decided to try to conceive at that point -we both wanted a family, we both share the same goals and values about marriage and family.  I'd never been pregnant to my knowledge! (meaning no chemical pregnancy or suspected miscarriage). 

My point is - it took us around 12-14 months to conceive- even with the clock ticking we only tried because we were very committed to each other, each stable in every way, and loved each other -without all those "ducks in a row" it wouldn't have mattered to either of us if we were in our 30s or 40s or if time was running out - you don't focus this intensely on the clock if it's not in the best interests of a future child -you two are not stable and you also didn't say anything about your gf's plans with meds if you started trying or she got pregnant -this whole relationship seems uber-focused on practicalities.  That level of focus isn't a good recipe for a stable family life.

I see where she's so needy/clingy but I find it really odd that for all that time you didn't reach a compromise on how and when to communicate - that it reached that breaking point.  I get that you're not into texting and calling - but how often were you seeing each other? And it seems kind of common sense-defying that she'd leave it up to you -a bit of a game? This sort of rigidity also doesn't bode well for you two -your dynamic seems really off.  What really drew you to each other anyway -the desire to become parents before it was too late? (of course you can adopt/foster/use a surrogate, right?).

[Lambert]

There's an old song, sometimes love just ain't enough. 

You're discounting her massive mental health issues. You think  these things are just going to go away? Get better? You're still arguing over a minor miscommunication from months ago.

She can't handle her life as it is. I would not bring a child into this environment. I would not attach my finances to her finances. 

End things. Move on. This is a bad relationship/situation that will only get worse. 

Sorry. But your not making good life choices here. It's not your place to fix people. 

[Chrysoar]

To add some clarity I was coming over nearly every weekend to visit my girlfriend. I generally wouldn’t call or text during the week or would send her a “goodnight!” Text before bed. My girlfriend stated that she would like to hear from me more and would sometimes send me a short text. However, after the nine month mark she accused me of only wanting to see her for “cuddles” and that I wasn’t trying to actively be a part of her life. Also, though she sees a therapist she was never diagnosed with BPD or anything else. She sees a therapist to work through childhood trauma (she was taken away fro her parents at age two) and more recent abuse from her ex. Her meds are for mood swings during her menstraul cycle as they can be severe ( she was diagnosed with PMDD).

Part of the issue was I am good friends with her ex and when a protective order was lifted by the court banning him from her she struggled to get him to maintain reasonable boundaries she set up. He has visitation right to their child so they have to have an amicable relationship. I left it to her to figure out, but she felt that I, being his friend, should have been a little more present so upon drop offs or pick ups she didn’t have to be alone with him as much. I apologized for not understanding this, but she said it made her sad I didn’t get it in the moment when she tried to tell me and asked. I admit I should have been more aware I just didn’t want to get involved. She is working things through and is overall a great girlfriend when she isn’t arguing with me ( we only argue about commitment). I love her and know she loves me. She promised me she would do ever she can to be more mentally healthy, and I do see that. She is also in university finishing a degree she never got to finish due to having surgery’s to be a kidney donor for a family member. She is kind and generous. I don’t want to lose her. But how can I commit when she won’t give me the peace I asked for? All I want is for her to forget the past, stop pushing for a commitment ( if it wasn’t for her behavior I would have already committed) and to give me peace and be good. She was for the first nine months! She was the perfect girlfriend. I get that she wasn’t happy due to my lack of communication but that is over now. I want her to be like that again. She said she could be but needs security. Anyway, sorry for rambling. Hope that adds some clarity. 

[Batya33]

I think this is going in needless circles and there is too much drama and chaos between the abusive ex being a friend of yours, etc.  You two are on different pages as far as what "peace" means and your expectations of her are unrealistic IMO.  

[Chrysoar]

@Batya33 how are my expectations unrealistic? I would like to know. Is there something I’m missing? Thanks. 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, Chrysoar said:

@Batya33 how are my expectations unrealistic? I would like to know. Is there something I’m missing? Thanks. 

Yes- you want her to "poof" change back to who she was at the beginning  -also when things were new, before the issues with her child, "all you want" is for her to forget the past -why should she? As a "condition" to you committing to her? How does she know after that there won't be more "conditions? if she "forgets about the past"?

[rainbowsandroses]

OP, it would appear you know (with near certainty) what she needs and what steps need to be taken to bring about the peace you say you need to commit. 

She needs to feel safe and secure which frankly I don't think is too much to ask.

Extending yourself just a little bit more than you've been doing which from where I'm sitting  sounds like the bare minimum. 

I get you're an "avoidant" that's very clear and has been since the beginning.  No texts or phone calls in between once a week dates?

Bless her heart for remaining as long as she did.  Women need to feel connected and once a week dates with barely a text in between other than "good night" doesn't cut it.

IF you want this relationship to work and for your gf to feel happy, safe and secure, give a bit more of yourself, step out of your safe "avoidant" comfort zone. Make the effort, not sure why you're not; again I do not think it's too much to ask. 

You may be surprised how much you will gain by making this one minor change.  A happy emotionally healthy gf who feels safe and secure and who then can give you all the love (and peace) YOU need.

Win win!

 

[bluecastle]

Sorry about all this. 

The generous view here, from my perch, is that you are two decent people who, when together, are terrible for each other—diminishing your better qualities, bringing out your worst, and turning your collective (and especially her individual) mental health to Swiss cheese. This is generally what happens when what two people really want, deep down, but are loath to admit, is for the person they are with to morph into a completely different person.  

What you two to seem share most potently—and what seems to be the unfortunate glue in all this—are Big Desires about who you want to be as you crest into your forties. So powerful are these Big Desires that you are each doing all you can to mold the other into a shape that fits this, since the alternative is scary: 41 and alone, a blank page where you hoped to be drafting a novel. 

Alas, remove those Big Desires from all this, and what's real? What's real is you are talking about her with all the love of a lab technician trying to a mouse through a maze. And she, understandably, is reacting to all that in much the way a trapped and hungry animal will. Not a scenario that will magically transform itself into bliss. 

My hope for both of you is that you can experience what it's like for commitment to be so easy and so obvious that you hardly use the word, where you're just so bust inhabiting the concept that you don't come up with rules that turn it into a carrot on a stick. You deserve that. As does she. As things stand, sadly, it seems that you are each an impediment to having this experience.

[boltnrun]

2 hours ago, Chrysoar said:

All I want is for her to forget the past, stop pushing for a commitment ( if it wasn’t for her behavior I would have already committed) and to give me peace and be good.

As in, behave herself and act the way you think she should?

I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety and no way would two months have been enough for me to have any sort of improvement.

You two are incompatible.  Saying "well, we're great together except when we're not" makes no sense.

[Kwothe28]

2 hours ago, Chrysoar said:

All I want is for her to forget the past, stop pushing for a commitment ( if it wasn’t for her behavior I would have already committed) and to give me peace and be good.

Yeah, but wouldnt you want somebody then who doesnt have that much issues? You expect to have a peaceful relationship without problems with somebody who has a clear mental health issues. And that is almost impossible as her state causes problems for relationship too.

Not to mention that for you "giving you peace" means to leave you alone and dont bother about commitment. You and her both are 41. Ofcourse she would bother you about commitment. Probably every other woman who is in that age and that wants a serious relationship will. But you seem very avoidant type that cant be bothered with what she wants. Which makes it even more head scratching that you chose somebody like her. If you dont want commitment and are avoidant of it then just dont do it or fix your own avoidance issues before you try to commit to anybody.

[catfeeder]

What’s interesting is that you’ve behaved in a way that a healthy person would never tolerate.

Good luck with that.

[MissCanuck]

17 hours ago, Chrysoar said:

I was coming over nearly every weekend to visit my girlfriend. I generally wouldn’t call or text during the week or would send her a “goodnight!” Text before bed.

Do you seriously not realize how that hurts your partner? 

Most people are not going to tolerate this level of detachment for very long. You are not ready for a committed relationship if this your usual behaviour. 

[Batya33]

53 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Do you seriously not realize how that hurts your partner? 

Most people are not going to tolerate this level of detachment for very long. You are not ready for a committed relationship if this your usual behaviour. 

IMO a serious exclusive couple should be in touch daily by phone on the days they are not seeing each other except in very rare circumstances.  I mean an actual conversation (I mean text ok too especially if there's no good time to talk).  

[rainbowsandroses]

OP, if you're still reading, my take is you are both commitment-averse / commitment-phobic.  The only difference is your respective fears manifest in different ways.

YOU are the active runner, SHE is the passive chaser.  You run away from commitment (claiming you need peace first), she passively chases by (1) remaining with you, and, (2) chasing your commitment claiming she needs security first.

I call BS on both, neither of you want commitment despite your claims to the contrary. 

I mean think about it.  What woman who truly wanted commitment would choose to hang around a man for as long as she has who very clearly does not!  Makes absolutely no sense. 

As for you, providing her with the sense of security that she claims she needs would be a very easy thing for you do to.  Yet you refuse to do it.

Why?

Because this "relationship" as toxic as it is serves you both quite well, whether you wish to acknowledge that or not. 

It's the perfect excuse to avoid commitment and that goes for her too.  

As I said no woman who truly wanted commitment would be choosing to remain with a man who so clearly does not. 

She may not even realize her fears surrounding commitment, they're silent.  Your fears may be silent as well although active runners tend to be more aware.

As for her "mental health issues" I seriously question whether such issues would exist at all should she choose to not have this toxic relationship in her life.

But she's consciously choosing it for herself so tbh I don't have much sympathy.  

 

[SooSad33]

On 6/24/2023 at 8:52 PM, Chrysoar said:

Anyway, I want to get back with her once I see that she is better. However, Our resulting conundrum is that she feels she needs commitment in order to give me the peace I seek in the relationship, and I need peace in order to give her the commitment she seeks.  We both love each other deeply but this conflict is causing a lot of damage to the relationship, to the point where we don’t know how to move forward successfully.

I don't believe this will be successful due to her mental/emotional damages and instability.

Is like she'll 'never let you live it down', since you didn't measure up to her standards, so the damage is done 😕 .

 

On 6/24/2023 at 8:52 PM, Chrysoar said:

due to early miscommunication, I told her that I didn’t like texting or calling so she decided to leave it up to me to text and call and then became very unhappy when I hardly ever did. Due to this miscommunication we started out on the wrong foot, causing her anxiety over my lack of commitment.  We had agreed that after a year of dating we would either split up or look at taking the next step toward engagement and marriage. However, nine months into the relationship she tried to break up due to the miscommunication. We talked it through, and I started to call her but she still talks about the past. She talks about how alone she felt and how she felt that I hadn’t cared

She's a sad mess, imo.  She'll never be truly happy.  As you can see, the past will always be brought up.

You've broken up, is maybe best to leave it at that. ( and don't offer 'friendship', is best to just walk away and leave all alone).