Nervous for a date

[rainbowsandroses]

46 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Mentioning spectrum isn’t trashing. I never trashed him. I’m totally comfortable commenting on what I see as rudeness and thoughtlessness. He may be a very good person making bad choices. To me those are choosing to treat her disrespectfully instead of not dating her. 
And I agree the main issue here is why Alex is tolerating it and whitewashing and lying to herself. 

I wasn't referring to you specifically, I was speaking in the generic.  

I agree my mentioning the spectrum was not trashing, I am trying to move past trashing him and brought up another less insidious possibility.

But many other things were like he's on drugs, he's cheating with other women, he's lazy, he's rude, he's thoughless, he's a bozo, turkey, etc.

I was guilty of this myself and think it's wrong.  No one knows him. 

That's what I was referring to.

Not to mention we're hearing this stuff second hand from a confused poster who has a tendency to rewrite history (sorry Alex but it's true).

 

 

 

 

[Jaunty]

4 minutes ago, Starlight925 said:

 What is it, in your life, that causes you to think this is a wonderful relationship?

A couple of weeks ago @Alex39 was sharing about how they had nothing to talk about, but it was okay because she felt "calm" and "peace." 

This is hard to wrap my mind around but I think it's because of the "exclusivity" agreement (made when they had yet to even really kiss) that she felt she had the "boyfriend" situation nailed down and it was all going to be fine.

And at the bottom of it all, maybe she still feels like it's "fine" as long as the agreement remains in place.  It doesn't matter at all what happens or doesn't happen.  All the disrespect and indignities are pretty much okay as long as she can say she has a boyfriend.

Is this right, @Alex39?  Or do you have any requirements above and beyond checking "BOYFRIEND" off of you list of "must haves" for your 30's?

Please answer. 

Also I'd really like to know that if you can drag his sorry butt to the alter, will you be satisfied with this type of relationship in a marriage?  Or will just being able to check "marriage" and "husband" off of your list sufficient to give you satisfaction?

 

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I wasn't referring to you specifically, I was speaking in the generic.  

I agree my mentioning the spectrum was not trashing, I am trying to move past trashing him and brought up another less insidious possibility.

But many other things were like he's on drugs, he's cheating with other women, he's lazy, he's rude, he's thoughless, he's a bozo, turkey, etc.

I was guilty of this myself and think it's wrong.  No one knows him. 

That's what I was referring to

 

 

 

I think his behavior with drinking is of concern. His priority of partying over seeing her. His shady excuses. To me that’s not trashing a person at all. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Alex39 said:

He called me after and told me all about their night. 

Do you know what type of vacation this is and where he's going not specifically but for example a city or tropical resort? Are you anticipating regular contact while he's away or more relaxed contact less often?

 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Jaunty said:

Some people find it fun to try to diagnose people. it's a pretty slippery slope.

 

A lot of armchair diagnosing is just sanitized trashing. Or excuses as to why he is dismissive and obtuse.  My assessments of his behavior are based on the descriptions  about his interaction with @Alex39  and her confusion and intermittent distress about it. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

54 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Or excuses as to why he is dismissive and obtuse

But see, this is the issue that I think Alex, and people in general, have trouble grasping:

 

reasons behind someone’s behaviors shouldn’t be excuses.  They never should be. If a man has a mental illness and murders his wife, the illness doesn’t excuse the murder, it is simply a contributing factor. 
 

explanations =\= excuses 

 

mental illness =\= excuse 

 

spectrum disorders =\= excuse 

[NighttimeNightmare]

19 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Ok let’s stop talking about him and then the focus on you

 

can you write a list for us on here of things he’s done that you don’t like, vs things he’s done that you do like. And be honest because there’s like 80 pages of complaint-based conversations 

Asking again because I think it would be helpful for you to visualize a list like this

 

is there a reason you seem to evade questions that are focused on what you’re doing instead of what he’s doing?

[rainbowsandroses]

29 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

But see, this is the issue that I think Alex, and people in general, have trouble grasping:

 

reasons behind someone’s behaviors shouldn’t be excuses.  They never should be. If a man has a mental illness and murders his wife, the illness doesn’t excuse the murder, it is simply a contributing factor. 
 

explanations =\= excuses 

 

mental illness =\= excuse 

 

spectrum disorders =\= excuse 

I get what you're saying, but when I or anyone imo mentions something, anything really, as a possibility, it's not to excuse the behavior but rather an attempt to make some semblance of sense of certain behaviors that otherwise make NO sense.

Just like earlier someone mentioned drug addiction as a possibility.

Not to excuse or even explain the behavior or to justify the OP remaining in the relationship.

It's all pure speculation anyway.  No one knows him not to mention we're only hearing one side of the story - the OP's side.

In this case an OP who has a tendency to rewrite history. 

It's been said, when it comes to relationships, there are typically three sides - her side, his side and something in between which is most likely closest to the truth.

It's best to simply focus on the OP, her/his choices and reasons for remaining in a situation that makes them unhappy.

Which going forward I am going to try to do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jaunty]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

A lot of armchair diagnosing is just sanitized trashing. 

And most of it is straight up stupid.  We can't even diagnose the person posting - even if we are a professional therapist of some kind.  We have no idea whether they are representing themselves and events as they really are.  We sure can't take their descriptions of someone they've just met and use those to diagnose anything.

For sure @Alex39 is an "unreliable narrator."  That's why her accounts of what happened are all over the place.   Some of it is honest, some of it is her spinning her fantasies, and some is telling us what she would like us to believe for her own reasons - often so as not to get piled up on.

[rainbowsandroses]

40 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I get what you're saying, but when I or anyone imo mentions something, anything really, as a possibility, it's not to excuse the behavior but rather an attempt to make some semblance of sense of certain behaviors that otherwise make NO sense.

Just like earlier someone mentioned drug addiction as a possibility.

Not to excuse or even explain the behavior or to justify the OP remaining in the relationship.

It's all pure speculation anyway.  No one knows him not to mention we're only hearing one side of the story - the OP's side.

In this case an OP who has a tendency to rewrite history. 

It's been said, when it comes to relationships, there are typically three sides - her side, his side and something in between which is most likely closest to the truth.

It's best to simply focus on the OP, her/his choices and reasons for remaining in a situation that makes them unhappy.

Which going forward I am going to try to do.

Bolded, in that light, it would be helpful if the OP, Alex, would answer the questions presented to her.

Open up and allow us to help her figure this all out. 

It's like pulling teeth to get her to answer even the most basic questions.  To interact in her own thread other than telling us about their dates on the couch, shopping or whatever they do.

Not sure why that is unless she's not actually reading the posts in their entrety and didn't see the question.

 

 

[Jibralta]

19 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

can you write a list for us on here of things he’s done that you don’t like, vs things he’s done that you do like. And be honest because there’s like 80 pages of complaint-based conversations

1 hour ago, Jaunty said:

Or will just being able to check "marriage" and "husband" off of your list sufficient to give you satisfaction?

Alex has a knack for shifting things over from the "Good" column to the "Bad" column and vice versa. I'm sure it's to maintain some sort of balance.... but I wonder, what exactly is the fulcrum of that scale? or where is the fulcrum along the beam? What account, or what value, is being balanced?

[LootieTootie]

3 hours ago, Alex39 said:

He called me after and told me all about their night. We talked for close to an hour. 

So I recalled you said you guys don't have a lot to talk about. Can I ask what you guys talked about ?

If you don't want to share, thats fine too. I just hope he isn't just talking about himself and is enthusiastic in treating you like a queen when he gets back.

[NighttimeNightmare]

8 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

Alex has a knack for shifting things over from the "Good" column to the "Bad" column and vice versa.

Yup. Most likely because she’s attaching the behaviors to him. So if he does something “bad” in her world it can become “good” because she’s decided he’s a “good person” and a “good boyfriend” etc.  She’s not seeing clearly because every iota of logic gets wiped away the moment he calls or sends her a picture 

 

if she would make a list and share it with us, then the list becomes almost detached from the human object. She can try to arrange things into different columns but at least pointed questions can be asked to her about her and her reasonings.  The guy becomes “detached other.”  It could maybe put the focus back on her

 

but again, she seems to have a knack for dodging any question that isn’t focused on him. Which is telling. Makes sense why she’s in this position, no self inspection to want or do better for herself.  The focus is always on “other” so she never has to put in the self work to create a fulfilling life for herself. 

[rainbowsandroses]

11 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

but again, she seems to have a knack for dodging any question that isn’t focused on him. Which is telling. Makes sense why she’s in this position, no self inspection to want or do better for herself 

Wholeheartedly agree.

It's a shame because there's a real opportunity here to learn and grow and make better choices for herself.

She seems stuck in her own unhealthy mindset and reality and unless there's some serious introspection and perhaps even therapy, she will remain stuck and the unhealthy pattern will continue with every man she dates.

Different face, same story. 

 

[Alex39]

1 hour ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Asking again because I think it would be helpful for you to visualize a list like this

 

is there a reason you seem to evade questions that are focused on what you’re doing instead of what he’s doing?

I don't mean to evade questions. I'm still trying to catch up reading here. Can everyone post their questions again, so I can answer them?

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

. Can everyone post their questions again, so I can answer them?

You don't have to answer any questions you don't want to.  Has he left for his vacation yet?

[Sindy_0311]

4 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

Can everyone post their questions again, so I can answer them?

Hell no, this is your topic, read it 😉

[Jibralta]

26 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

f she would make a list and share it with us, then the list becomes almost detached from the human object. She can try to arrange things into different columns but at least pointed questions can be asked to her about her and her reasonings.

She would have to publish the list on a regular basis, so that we could see when (and what) things shift from the "Bad" column to the "Good" column and from the "Good" column to the "Bad" column. A fascinating pattern might emerge.... 🤔

[Jaunty]

38 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

I wonder, what exactly is the fulcrum of that scale? or where is the fulcrum along the beam? What account, or what value, is being balanced?

I suspect, unfortunately, that the "account" is what she feels is the desirable "status quo," which will depend upon who she's interacting with at any given time.

The girlfriends (all of whom seem to be more "frenemies" that friends) it's kind of a competition to see who is first on the Big Fancy Bridezilla Wedding achievement.  Then having the baby.  So she'd be motivated to pitch this as being on the horrifying wedding train.

With family I'm not sure but I think status symbols are at the top of the list.  Just not sure what they are - probably things like a certain kind of house, car, maybe get a boat or a vacation place, go to Vegas for a vacation, that kind of thing.  Pretty in line with the frenemies.

Here - this is different and probing questions are asked.  It's a community where at least a certain percentage of people are looking for something "real" and challenging things that seem false.  So this one will be more tricky to fake.

[Jaunty]

17 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

I don't mean to evade questions. I'm still trying to catch up reading here. Can everyone post their questions again, so I can answer them?

Here's one: 

What kind of vacation is the guy going on?  Like Las Vegas, another big city, a tropical resort, a mountain cabin?  No need to be specific.

[rainbowsandroses]

27 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You don't have to answer any questions you don't want to.  Has he left for his vacation yet?

I'm sorry Wiseman2 didn't mean to laugh.

But on one hand you said she doesn't have to answer questions, but then followed that by asking her a question!  

I dunno, made me chuckle.

But you're right she doesn't have to answer.  

However IF she wants help navigating this situation on a non-surface level so unhealthy patterns don't continue, she would be wise to answer the more probing questions IMO.

Totally her choice. 

[Alex39]

18 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You don't have to answer any questions you don't want to.  Has he left for his vacation yet?

Yes, he called me all morning to talk on the phone and now he's left. 

[Alex39]

6 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Here's one: 

What kind of vacation is the guy going on?  Like Las Vegas, another big city, a tropical resort, a mountain cabin?  No need to be specific.

Tropical cruise

[Batya33]

Oh I see so he needed new cruise clothes. How nice for him. Betcha he didn’t cancel on his family and his stomach isn’t affected by cruising. 

[LootieTootie]

Alex,

My question is about last night call with him. You said you both spoke almost an hour. Can you tell us what you talked about? I want to know if this was a two-sided conversation or just him talking about himself.

If you don't want to divulge that info, no worries.