My boyfriends ex wife and his daughter aren't allowing our relationship

[TanyaJo]

This is only one of the many incidents. My boyfriend asked me if I would like to meet for lunch and a walk, it was a nice and sunny day so I said yes and we met up for lunch. He gets a phone call form his daughter asking him to help with arranging the furniture at her mom's place (his ex wife's place). His ex-wife has a boyfriend too, plus a tenant living in her house, she isn't by any means on her own that she needs help. I understood the situation, also I was slightly annoyed as it did not seem like an emergency and he could have dealt with it later instead of rushing into eating lunch and cancelling the rest of the plans we had. On our way back he gets another call checking if he is on his way. He says his daughter and mom are similar, they keep him on the toes. I feel bad for him being controlled by these ladies but at the same time feel bad for myself not being a priority. I cried a lot for no reason while I understand he is a dad first then my boyfriend I'm starting to this if this relationship could work at all. Last week we were on a date night, daughter calls and asks him to walk her to mums from the station although it wasn't that late and the walk is only about 10 mins I'm thinking maybe she knows dad is with me and doesn't like it? Things were slightly better when the daughter had a boyfriend now that she is single again, she is more needy and her mom knowingly makes her go to dad coz she is jealous be is going out with me, while she is with a man who has no prospects at all. I've been crying a lot as I do empathise his situation and I also feel it isn't fair for me how he treats me. his ex wife is 55 and the daughter is 17

[Batya33]

This is about a father-daughter relationship.  You signed up for this. You are the girlfriend -not her mother, not her stepmother, not married to her father even.  His daughter is going to come first and you have information that to him this means showing up even if she could technically have someone else help.  I have a friend who interrupted our important and personal conversation because her 20 something daughter texted her from her dorm room to see if eating 3 day old mac and cheese in the fridge was safe for lunch. This was after a couple of other interruptions during a short call.  This happened a lot.  So I decided to stop having phone calls and just text because if she was going to interrupt because of that sort of situation involving her daughter I'd prefer not to have it happen during a phone call.

When my son was young I was often judged by friends and family for not doing certain plans, rescheduling others (and sometimes I wasn't judged but I made decisions that you for example might have found lacked common sense), because of my standards about my son's care -this included not spending a day at our friend's pool, not letting him have a playdate outdoors before the covid vaccines were available, interrupting a phone call because I heard him fussing a bit too much after a nap, leaving a lunch early because my friend was late and my son couldn't tolerate sitting in a restaurant more than an hour total at that time. 

To your boyfriend his standard is to jump when his teenage daughter needs him for any reason and you don't get to judge his parenting.  You do get to decide that his lifestyle is not for you.  Perhaps she is acting in a controlling way. That's not your business because he is fine with being controlled because the upside is he gets to be in person with his daughter and right now that takes priority over being on a date with you. 

It has nothing to do with fairness.  If you marry him or live in the same space with him then when daughter is in your home she has to treat you with respect and if she doesn't then your partner should have your back.  You have to treat her with respect and be a good host.  No input on disciplining etc. 

[MissCanuck]

I would end it, if this is one of many examples and you're crying and miserable a lot of the time. It's not the right relationship for you. 

 

[Kwothe28]

I would avoid blaming others like "his daughter doesnt allow us to be together", "his ex wife is jealous" etc. Not because there isnt maybe truth in it, but because, well, he is a willing participant in all of that. He can just say "No" and that he is busy. But he dances as they play a tune. That is not to say he shouldnt, his daughter should and would be above you there. Just that he is his own independant man and can say "No" if demands are not urgent. So, blame him for that.

That being said, yes, if the things are like that, you should rethink dating somebody who cant make time for you properly, even if it is because of his daughter. 

Is it the same man that you messaged at 12:20 at night? Or some other man?

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, TanyaJo said:

. his ex wife is 55 and the daughter is 17

He's still legally responsible for the daughter, but his interaction with the wife is voluntary. The daughter is also living with the mother.

It seems like you're unhappy and incompatible. It doesn't seem like the daughter is sabotaging your relationship, it seems he has responsibilities and has to attend to his child.

 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Just that he is his own independant man and can say "No" if demands are not urgent. So, blame him for that.

That being said, yes, if the things are like that, you should rethink dating somebody who cant make time for you properly, even if it is because of his daughter. 

I'd actually avoid judging this - he may feel like this is the only way he can foster a connection with his daughter- rightfully or wrongfully.  He may need to be honest with himself that he's not cut out in his current situation to properly prioritize a serious relationship or he can date someone who has a similar parenting arrangement/situation and would get it. 

There were a number of men who declined to date me when I worked more than full time because from their perspective I was probably a workaholic (I wasn't -and some of that was gendered for sure) - and who wouldn't put up with my needing to keep weekday plans tentative and cancel if I got an assignment last minute after 5pm.  I tried to seek out men with similar schedules and careers -it meant it was hard to see each other at times but there was understanding and no or extremely little resentment. 

My bosses didn't "control" me -I allowed that level of control and was compensated for it and benefited professionally from it and those were priorities to me back then.  The OP's boyfriend chooses to jump for non-urgent matters because the benefits -the father-daughter relationship to him outweigh the downsides. 

[Kwothe28]

6 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I'd actually avoid judging this - he may feel like this is the only way he can foster a connection with his daughter- rightfully or wrongfully.  He may need to be honest with himself that he's not cut out in his current situation to properly prioritize a serious relationship or he can date someone who has a similar parenting arrangement/situation and would get it. 

 

Yeah, but again that makes it a "him" issue. She can demand, I dunno, late night dinner and that he goes to restaurant and pick it up and get it to her. But its him who is agreeing to such ridiculous demands. So the daughter would love him. If its an emergency or something "pre- planned" its fine. But they seem to be calling him on the whim and he complies. When he has an option to say "No" when he is already on the date. Nobody who he dates would have patience for that kind of attitude. Not OP, not anyone who is serious.

[Batya33]

13 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Yeah, but again that makes it a "him" issue. She can demand, I dunno, late night dinner and that he goes to restaurant and pick it up and get it to her. But its him who is agreeing to such ridiculous demands. So the daughter would love him. If its an emergency or something "pre- planned" its fine. But they seem to be calling him on the whim and he complies. When he has an option to say "No" when he is already on the date. Nobody who he dates would have patience for that kind of attitude. Not OP, not anyone who is serious.

I disagree.  I won't judge it as ridiculous without knowing the context.  Co-parenting from what I have seen as an outsider is often really complicated.  I was told I was ridiculous for not taking my toddler to a day at my friend's pool club since back then he only napped in his crib "but everyone I know just puts the baby in a stroller at nap time."  But I didn't.  And chose to forego the day out so my baby's sleep schedule wouldn't be disturbed.  I told another friend no I wouldn't go to her all expenses paid fancy event and meet a celebrity one on one because my baby was 3 months old and I wasn't yet comfortable leaving him wiht my husband for 8 plus hours because we saw the SIDs risk differently.  My friend was a single mom of two kid and was a teenage mom who was homeless for awhile. 

I am sure I sounded ridiculous then too.  Oh well. No regrets - my baby came first. 

 He has an option to say no-he chooses not to because he's decided to prioritize his daughter over continuing a lunch date.  Yes there are people who would have patience -people in the same situation.  Perhaps.  Just like people who date doctors on call - they sign up for that - others would have no patience for these "patients" lol.  

Yes I agree no one would put up with a flaky unreliable person and that also can get subjective so what would be fair is if her bf tells her that all plans are tentative if his daughter calls and needs a lightbulb changed.  So she can then decide -that is her option-to say "no I don't want our movie date interrupted because your daughter might call but if we're just hanging out at my house then sure it's fine."  

I had to put up with a lot because my husband was an only child of disabled, ill parents once we married.  He jumped a lot for them, their friends, their relatives.  Tomorrow he's keeping an appointment to meet a former colleague for coffee even though it greatly inconveniences me and increases my stress for an important medical appointment we have for our son. I have friends who wouldn't put up with that but they don't walk a mile in my shoes -they don't get what my husband's career requires, they also don't get the delicate balancing of diplomacy in a marriage because I'm sure I've inconvenienced him by needing him to solo parent so I could socialize or socialize longer, or do a non-essential thing.  Or maybe I'll need that in the future.  It's contextual.  

[Kwothe28]

10 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I was told I was ridiculous

And again we have come to the same issue. You disagree because you somehow again managed to make it about you. Not about the case that we are talking about, but about yourself. And that you somehow emphatise with OPs boyfriend. I need you to get this into your head: OPs boyfriend is not you. You are just projecting. Why? I dunno, I guess you both have a kid. So that is enough for you to defend him and how its not ridiculous to be called in a middle of your date to move furniture.

This is not just my opinion. Last time we talked about that, I had multiple DMs from people telling me that its good somebody told you that. Multiple. Not just one but several people told me exact same thing. So please get that under control if you want to have a discussion with somebody. 

[Batya33]

10 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

And again we have come to the same issue. You disagree because you somehow again managed to make it about you. Not about the case that we are talking about, but about yourself. And that you somehow emphatise with OPs boyfriend. I need you to get this into your head: OPs boyfriend is not you. You are just projecting. Why? I dunno, I guess you both have a kid. So that is enough for you to defend him and how its not ridiculous to be called in a middle of your date to move furniture.

This is not just my opinion. Last time we talked about that, I had multiple DMs from people telling me that its good somebody told you that. Multiple. Not just one but several people told me exact same thing. So please get that under control if you want to have a discussion with somebody. 

No not in the least. Nothing to do with me. I was using me as one example of so many. When it comes to parenting and a single parent who is dating I think it's contextual while you believe no one would put up with it. My doctor example was not about me at all. I am not married to a doctor, was never seriously involved with one.

I'm not defending his particular choices just disagreeing with your judgments.  You're entitled to misinterpret what I wrote.

I don't empathize and I've never been a single parent and hope never to be.  So that's not about me at all.  I actually think he's acting in an unfair way in a different way -if his lifestyle is such that he will interrupt a planned lunch for the situation described he should be up front with her or anyone he dates about his lifestyle demands whether it's because of a job, an aging parent, a child.  So the person who is dating him can decide.  I don't think he's making a good choice to expect her to accommodate these extreme situations.

Thanks for sharing the off topic gossip LOL!!!! I have no idea what you mean by "talk about that" - I've never talked about whatever that is with you because you're entitled to your opinion.  I disagree and you can refer to off topic gossip all you wish - it's irrelevant - .  But kind of amusing that you would reference that! I will ask that you please not reference off-topic gossip when responding to a post I made -many thanks. I can't speak to your choice to do so when you respond to others- not my business.  Just asking politely -again, thanks!

[Kwothe28]

1 minute ago, Batya33 said:

No not in the least. Nothing to do with me. I was using me as one example of so many.

You literally projected yourself and told me how I cant say its ridiculous to be called in the middle of the date to move furniture. Because you didnt left your son when he was a baby. Making it all about yourself. Again. You do that constantly and people noticed that. Its not a gossip, I just told you directly.

We have a saying here: When one person calls you a horse, dismiss it. When other person calls you a horse, wonder why its that. When 3rd person call you a horse, get a saddle. So please get that under control if you want to have a discussion with people in the future. I am telling you that not because I hate you, because I dont. I am telling you because its an issue that constantly repeats and it derails conversation. Not just with me. But apparently with whole Forum.

I wont adress it further, its enough offtopic already. Goodbye.

[Seraphim]

Maybe you guys are just not compatible. He does owe his child a life. I know she is a teen but people are still really a child until the brain is fully developed. Once you are a parent you are one for life . 

[boltnrun]

This is the man who you got upset with because you sent him a selfie after midnight and he didn't immediately respond complimenting you?

Yeah, I would conclude you two are incompatible.  Seems like one conflict after another.

[TanyaJo]

2 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

You literally projected yourself and told me how I cant say its ridiculous to be called in the middle of the date to move furniture. Because you didnt left your son when he was a baby. Making it all about yourself. Again. You do that constantly and people noticed that. Its not a gossip, I just told you directly.

We have a saying here: When one person calls you a horse, dismiss it. When other person calls you a horse, wonder why its that. When 3rd person call you a horse, get a saddle. So please get that under control if you want to have a discussion with people in the future. I am telling you that not because I hate you, because I dont. I am telling you because its an issue that constantly repeats and it derails conversation. Not just with me. But apparently with whole Forum.

I wont adress it further, its enough offtopic already. Goodbye.

hi @Kwothe28 thank you so much for your replies. I agree with you and really thank you so much for empathising. I was even kind enough to be ok with him leaving for arranging furniture in the middle of the date but then I got annoyed when there were 3 phone calls checking when and how soon he will be back. I could hear the whole conversation. I felt bad for him and myself. 

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, TanyaJo said:

hi @Kwothe28 thank you so much for your replies. I agree with you and really thank you so much for empathising. I was even kind enough to be ok with him leaving for arranging furniture in the middle of the date but then I got annoyed when there were 3 phone calls checking when and how soon he will be back. I could hear the whole conversation. I felt bad for him and myself. 

Yes so he's telling you how he prioritizes you vis a vis his daughter.  You don't have to accept this of course but it doesn't sound like he's going to shift his priorities either.  I'd exit rather than stick around and watch it get worse especially if you end up combining households and/or getting married.  This is who he is.  And it's not compatible with your expectations in a relationship and it's totally fine if someone else would be ok with it.  You are not and that is what matters.  I don't think this is his daughter's or ex's doing or fault -he is an adult man making these choices.  I'm sorry you're frustrated and upset.  Good luck!

[HeartGoesOn]

Thread closed.

[Tinydance]

Is this thread really closed because I can still reply...? Lol 

I'll just get one final word in lol I think yes your child is important but I think when they're 17 they're actually very close to being an adult. In most countries at 18 years old they're a legal adult. So I think from that perspective it's important to set some boundaries because the "child", in this case practically adult, has to be an adult and take care of themselves too. So for example if it's daytime and she wants the Dad to walk her for ten minutes, that's very different to if she was stuck somewhere at 3 a.m. with no way of getting home. She's capable of walking just ten minutes to her house in broad daylight. 

[MissCanuck]

I also think the daughter has some unrealistic expectations of her dad. Dad can enforce some healthy boundaries without making his daughter feel neglected. At her age, it's appropriate that she learn that Dad can't always be at her beck and call. 

But as I said, OP, it doesn't sound like this relationship is working for you and so it's best to end it. 

[Tinydance]

I also agree that really it's the boyfriend who is the issue, not his daughter or ex-wife. They actually can't not allow the relationship because they can't control him.

Sometimes people say: "Oh I have to suck up to my ex because otherwise my ex won't let me see my child". In this case the daughter is 17 so she's not really a child. She's either already a legal adult in some aspects, or will be very shortly. So basically the boyfriend and his daughter's relationship is a stand alone relationship now. It doesn't really have anything to do with the ex-wife. Except only if he's coming to pick her up and she lives with the ex wife so he just says: "Hi" to the ex to be polite and that's all.

He doesn't need to really do anything for the ex like move her furniture because it's got nothing to do with him. All he has to say is: "Sorry I'm on a date with my partner so I can't move the furniture". Most likely whatever it is he's doing, he actually WANTS to do himself.

[catfeeder]

It's not that it's 'wrong' in any moral or ethical sense for you to want to blame daughter and ex for their unscheduled requests, it's just that doing so prevents you from seeing clearly that it is your BF who decides each of these outcomes in every instance.

If you are certain that you've made your displeasure known to BF, yet he continues making the same consistent choices to jump on a moment's notice to the slightest request by daughter, regardless of the disruption to your private time together with BF, then what should that tell you?

BF is not going to budge on this issue.

So I'd skip the focus on what you wish BF would do--it's not going to happen--and instead, focus on whether or not YOU want to continue this relationship, such as it is.

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, catfeeder said:

It's not that it's 'wrong' in any moral or ethical sense for you to want to blame daughter and ex for their unscheduled requests, it's just that doing so prevents you from seeing clearly that it is your BF who decides each of these outcomes in every instance.

If you are certain that you've made your displeasure known to BF, yet he continues making the same consistent choices to jump on a moment's notice to the slightest request by daughter, regardless of the disruption to your private time together with BF, then what should that tell you?

BF is not going to budge on this issue.

So I'd skip the focus on what you wish BF would do--it's not going to happen--and instead, focus on whether or not YOU want to continue this relationship, such as it is.

I agree and also consider in the future keeping maybe a closer eye if you date a single dad /co-parent situation - listen closely to learn about what the dynamic is like to see if it fits with your standards and expectations.  I went on a date with a single dad many years ago (I avoided dating single parents) - and he said either on first meet or first date that he'd want a significant other to start sleeping over his apartment when he had the kids (meaning so he wouldn't have to hire a sitter?) fairly early on.  I knew this wouldn't be cool with me so I didn't see him again.  Not judging! 

I dated a single dad for 3 months in 2003.  When I met him his ex girlfriend was in her third trimester and she had the baby 6 weeks later.  After that I knew it wouldn't work - for me- he started staying over her place to help with his newborn plus she was very upset about me and I remember one night I got stared at by her friends at a movie theater. 

I wasn't concerned about him sleeping over and "hooking up" with her -I thought it was a really thoughtful way to parent -it just didn't feel comfortable for me.  Those were the main reasons I stopped dating him.  I didn't know until after the baby was born that it wasn't right for me.  But the more info you can get early on I guess the better to evaluate how it works with your life.  Good luck!

[smackie9]

 Their relationship has ended, and his only responsibility is him spending his allotted quality time with his daughter and pay for support. In no way is he responsible for anything else unless it's an emergency and moving furniture ain't it. It's not just them it's him not setting proper boundaries. This is why we date...to see what they are like and how they treat us. You are being let down by him not being able to sort this out so he can actually have a life of his own. He's obviously not willing to change so it's time to move on. 

[catfeeder]

17 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

This is why we date...to see what they are like and how they treat us.

Bingo! There are no villains in this, just people living their lives in ways that don't fit what you've envisioned for your future with a partner.

Staying with the guy positions you for a potential no-win, because even if you could manipulate him away from his current habits, he would likely resent you for that at some point, which doesn't result in a win, for either of you.

So you can either stay and eat it, and possibly learn to minimize your frustration or even thrive, OR, you can exit to seek someone who is less encumbered by his family.