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Potential red flag?


jul-els
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Hello. I’ve been seeing someone for the past two months. I think she’s really great and I feel a strong connection with her. She is self employed and runs two businesses. She works a lot. Pretty much day and night, seven days a week.

A couple days ago she asked me if I enjoyed being with her. I told her yes I did very much and asked her if she felt the same.

She said, “Can I be honest?” I said yes. She then told me that she didn’t enjoy our phone conversations. She basically said they were dry and lacked affection. I don’t share her feelings about this. I think our phone conversations are fine. She does talk a lot and often times doesn’t leave me space to interject or reply, but I’m fine with this. I understand that this is her conversation style and she needs to speak, so I listen. When I feel there is space for me to speak, I speak. Even then sometimes she interrupts me. But, I’m fine with this. I understand this is a characteristic of her personality and I’m completely comfortable and accepting of it. 
 

Apparently this bothers her. This concerns me a little bit that she seems to be finding fault and a reason to be unhappy this early on in our dating. It feels like a bit of a potential incompatibility for me. Thoughts? 

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3 minutes ago, jul-els said:

A couple days ago she asked me if I enjoyed being with her. 

She said, “Can I be honest?” I said yes. She then told me that she didn’t enjoy our phone conversations. 

Agree there seems to be a few dark clouds of incompatibility forming. Starting with inverse, backhanded rhetorical questions.  

She seems like a very poor communicator from the uninterrupted monologues to the loaded questions. 

This seems like her baggage moreso than anything you're doing. 

Someone who plays guessing games tends to be a lot of work. She seems to complain too much about nothing.

Stick with confident women who mean what they say and say what they mean. This one seems to want an audience not a dialogue.

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8 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

What does she expect phone conversations to sound like? 

I don’t know. I was wondering that myself. I explained to her that I’m the kind of person that just listens and gives people room to speak when they want to speak. She said she does know that she can, “talk a blue streak”, as people have told her. She’s in sales, so that’s her livelihood.

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8 minutes ago, jul-els said:

She said she does know that she can, “talk a blue streak”, as people have told her. She’s in sales, so that’s her livelihood.

Then maybe the issue isn't that your phone conversation are "dry" but that she talks too much and doesn't know when to give others the floor. 

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1 minute ago, MissCanuck said:

Then maybe the issue isn't that your phone conversation are "dry" but that she talks too much and doesn't know when to give others the floor. 

Could be. I personally don’t feel that way. I like her. She seems to be the one taking issue. Not much I can do about that. 

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When you finally get air time does she ask good follow up questions or does she switch back to herself? Her job doesn't mean she can't be a person who is a good listener.  In fact IMO a good salesperson has to be an excellent listener.  Do you react to what she says with interest? Or are you drained from her constant chatter? My husband is more reserved than me and introverted.  I used to LOVE our phone calls when we were long distance. 

But I know with my husband you have to give him a chance to speak -he likes to collect his thoughts, he pauses more, etc.  So I shut up.  I wait longer than I would with certain people.  I don't stare at him but I maintain eye contact to show him -I'm not impatient -I'm looking forward to what he wants to share. 

I also can be an interrupter but especially over the last several years - I work REALLY hard on that.  I am very conscious of stopping and waiting till the other person is allllll done speaking.  Now it's more of a habit.  Where I grew up interrupting wasn't rude to a certain extent -it was part of regular conversation -people expected it.  I mean that.  Yes too much was not good -but it was basically a given lol.  Where I live now it's a slower pace, and people don't interrupt as much.

If a person cares about what another person has to say or seems to want to say that person has control over his or her choices and can modify her conversational style to accommodate the person.  Parents have to do that all the time with young kids, people have to do that with elderly people, and different personality styles/temperaments require it too.

Also maybe end the call on a high note -earlier than you would -but so it leaves the impression of a fun convo? 

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2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

When you finally get air time does she ask good follow up questions or does she switch back to herself? Her job doesn't mean she can't be a person who is a good listener.  In fact IMO a good salesperson has to be an excellent listener.  Do you react to what she says with interest? Or are you drained from her constant chatter? My husband is more reserved than me and introverted.  I used to LOVE our phone calls when we were long distance. 

But I know with my husband you have to give him a chance to speak -he likes to collect his thoughts, he pauses more, etc.  So I shut up.  I wait longer than I would with certain people.  I don't stare at him but I maintain eye contact to show him -I'm not impatient -I'm looking forward to what he wants to share. 

I also can be an interrupter but especially over the last several years - I work REALLY hard on that.  I am very conscious of stopping and waiting till the other person is allllll done speaking.  Now it's more of a habit.  Where I grew up interrupting wasn't rude to a certain extent -it was part of regular conversation -people expected it.  I mean that.  Yes too much was not good -but it was basically a given lol.  Where I live now it's a slower pace, and people don't interrupt as much.

If a person cares about what another person has to say or seems to want to say that person has control over his or her choices and can modify her conversational style to accommodate the person.  Parents have to do that all the time with young kids, people have to do that with elderly people, and different personality styles/temperaments require it too.

Also maybe end the call on a high note -earlier than you would -but so it leaves the impression of a fun convo? 

I feel as though I show interest in what she has to say. I’m just being myself and allowing her to do the same. I enjoy our conversations. She apparently is a bit annoyed by them. Not sure if there is a solution to that or  there necessarily needs to be one. She doesn’t seem to enjoy my style of conversation from what I gather. It seems odd, seeing as we’ve been seeing each other for a couple of months. It sounds a bit critical to me and not something I’m eager to change or feel needs improvement. I want to be taken as I am. Her dissatisfaction is signaling to me this might be something she may have difficulty with.

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5 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

As soon as they start picking at you, the inevitable is going to happen. They will find more things to complain about. You don't see the issue, but she does.....time to move on because you will never see eye to eye on issues. 

My thoughts as well. I think it’s worth talking about so I’ll bring it up with her and see how it goes. But your sentiments generally reflect the way I’m feeling about it. 

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24 minutes ago, lostandhurt said:

How often do you actually spend time with her?  How may hours a week?

If she works so much where is time for a life?  Do you cater to her schedule or does she make time for you?

Lost

Well, that’s the thing. She has a difficult time planning dates. It’s kind of when it fits into her schedule, which I’m fine with, but. She’s now expressing a desire to have her needs met, which doesn’t really bode well.

We talked on our first date about what we’re both looking for. She said she wasn’t entirely sure. She was married for 35 years and has been divorced for five. I asked her and she said I’m the first person she’s dated since her divorce. She took that time to find herself again, but I’m not sure she’s really there yet.

She’s a sweetheart and is obviously developing feelings for me and I Iike her quite a bit too. But if she wants me to get more serious, then she has to be willing to do the same. I won’t settle for anyone who can’t prioritize me. 

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16 minutes ago, jul-els said:

She’s a sweetheart and is obviously developing feelings for me

Sorry, but I dont see it from the things you said. She may tell you that. But if she is trying to pick apart even little things like phone conversations thinking how you are "dry" and somehow lack affection, she is trying to find flaws and go away. That is not somebody who wants to build something together, those are people who would leave you and in the process dump everything on you even if its not your fault.

Add the part about the work and you should ask yourself is there a serious future there. With somebody 24/7 on work who probably has little time for you. Picking apart even smallest things you do or dont do.

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1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

Sorry, but I dont see it from the things you said. She may tell you that. But if she is trying to pick apart even little things like phone conversations thinking how you are "dry" and somehow lack affection, she is trying to find flaws and go away. That is not somebody who wants to build something together, those are people who would leave you and in the process dump everything on you even if its not your fault.

Add the part about the work and you should ask yourself is there a serious future there. With somebody 24/7 on work who probably has little time for you. Picking apart even smallest things you do or dont do.

I agree with all of this except for the part where you say she probably has no feelings for me. I think she does, but doesn’t know what to do about it. I think the years she spent in her unhappy marriage have caused her to have unrealistic expectations about how relationships work in the dating world. She’s a bit naive and unsure about what she’s doing. Which is not my issue and not something I’m willing to accept. I need to talk to her about it and see how she feels, but I’m not expecting her to be very receptive to it. I could be wrong. The only way to know is for me to ask her about it. She is a sweet person. I can see that. It’s one of the things that makes me attracted to her. 

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1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

I don't view this as a big dealbreaker, at all. She wouldn't bother raising this with you if she wasn't invested in you.

You don't view it as a good thing to be comfortable enough with someone to tell them what you'd like from them?

Notice that she doesn't say you are dry in person--so there's something about your body language and your manner that translates into a warmth that she enjoys about you. 

I think I'd be less offended and more curious. I'd joke with her about it. I'd tell her that I've been thinking about what she said, and I'm feeling very warm about her right now. Am I getting any warmer or colder?

I'd share a laugh at my own expense.

If you really like this woman, this is a no-brainer. LIKE her! 🙂

 

This is an interesting take and you’re right. I spoke to her about it and she was very receptive, even though I wasn’t expecting her to be. She told me not to overthink it. That we both have a tendency to over analyze which can be exhausting and that she doesn’t want that. She said don’t worry about it, that if she ever has a real problem with anything she’d let me know and that she wants me to do the same. Problem solved! Onward and forward! 🙂

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Tell her you don't share her feelings about this.  Ask her if YOU can be honest.  Tell her that she monopolizes every conversation without coming up for air so you can't get a word in edgewise (reminiscent of my MIL - mother-in-law! 🙄). 

You need to give yourself self-respect by not allowing her nor others to get away with interrupting you which is incredibly rude and selfish.  It infuriates me whenever people talk over me, cut me off, habitually interrupt and manipulate the conversation by taking over.  I don't enjoy being in certain people's company whenever they don't give me common courtesy.

You shouldn't be fine with being interrupted because it's intolerable and unacceptable.

Both of you are incompatible and / or she won't accept you as you are so go your separate ways.

My husband isn't a man of many words.  I'm the talker in our marriage but it works for us.  He defers to me a lot and if he speaks, his words are few yet impactful and meaningful.  He can say a lot with few words.  He's more action than words which suits me fine.  I've known men who are talkers and full of hot air.  They're all talk and no action which to me, is more boring than ever.  ☹️

At Thanksgiving, my BIL (brother-in-law) was quite the typical cheeky talker which is the problem.  He talks too much yet he's lazy.  My husband is the opposite.  He doesn't talk a lot yet he's extremely industrious which I prefer.  Sure, he speaks but he doesn't talk just to talk such as how my boorish BIL is. ☹️
 

 

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I like Catfeeder's mindset and I am glad it worked out. I don't think chatty is set in stone (but honestly I think quiet is more set in stone because of the person's personality traits/introverted etc).  I am chatty.  I know this.  But I also know all about my life -as my sister and I often tell each other "my life is boring -I want to hear about everyone else!!).  So because I am infinitely curious about individuals plus I want to show I care by being a good and genuine listener -I work on my chatty habit a lot.  I mean that "quiet" (more like my husband) is not a habit like "chatty". 

So I literally close my mouth or whatever it takes to shut myself up, I stop that tape in my head "rehearsing" what to say next and I do not let myself jump in right away -I want that person to completely finish speaking so she or he feels heard.  Unless I couldn't hear/heard wrong.  But this is because I care, this is because with exceptions chatty -too chatty- just doesn't work. 

Honestly my sister tells me she wants me to be chatty -she wants to hear all that is going on with me and the family when we finally get to catch up -she is my sister, she is an exception and yes she means it.  I feel the same about her. But my point is chatty folks can be excellent listeners and give and take people in a convo -if they care.  I care.

For me it means a little more work -I can't just let it all hang out -I monitor myself - but to me it's worth it so the other person feels free to share, feels heard and understood.  With quiet/reserved people - I respect them- I respect their comfort level and I delight in drawing out people with that temperament -for whatever reason over the last 30 plus years I've been really good at it which might be why my husband and I match well. It doesn't have to be either or.

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On 11/28/2022 at 8:16 AM, jul-els said:

Well, that’s the thing. She has a difficult time planning dates. It’s kind of when it fits into her schedule, which I’m fine with, but. She’s now expressing a desire to have her needs met, which doesn’t really bode well.

You didn't really answer my question. In the last 60 days how many times have you actually spent time with her in person?

Was every time on her terms?

It might be okay with you at the moment but there will come a time when always twisting your life around her schedule just so you can spend time together will grow old and frankly no matter how "fine with it" you are relationships are about respect and balance.  If you are doing all the heavy lifting (which I see it going that way fast) you are bound to have problems sooner or later.

 Lost

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4 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

You didn't really answer my question. In the last 60 days how many times have you actually spent time with her in person?

Was every time on her terms?

It might be okay with you at the moment but there will come a time when always twisting your life around her schedule just so you can spend time together will grow old and frankly no matter how "fine with it" you are relationships are about respect and balance.  If you are doing all the heavy lifting (which I see it going that way fast) you are bound to have problems sooner or later.

 Lost

Yes, I did answer your question (which has nothing to do with my post, by the way). Perhaps you need to go back and re-read it.

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21 hours ago, jul-els said:

Yes, I did answer your question (which has nothing to do with my post, by the way). Perhaps you need to go back and re-read it.

I did re-read it and you didn't say how many times you have met in person unless it was just one in person date which does have everything to do with your post.  If you have been "seeing her" for 2 months and only had one in person date that is a red flag and if she is being critical of your  conversation style after only meeting once it is a big red flag.

 Continue at your own peril.  She is too busy to have real dates, she is critical of very minor things and you are the first guy she has dated since her divorce.  Not good

Hopefully I am wrong but I see you already contorting yourself so you can continue seeing her when it should be give and take, not just give give give.

Best wishes

 Lost

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On 11/28/2022 at 1:06 PM, jul-els said:

 I think the years she spent in her unhappy marriage have caused her to have unrealistic expectations about how relationships work in the dating world. 

Agree. This is why she asked loaded questions rather than have a straight forward conversation. 

If she is unhappy about the phone conversations, just step back. It's not your job to read minds or be precisely whatever she wants.

Make sure you don't overinvest in someone who still has a lot of baggage to work out. When in doubt step back.

If she asks more obtuse, unclear or loaded questions ask her why she's asking it or what exactly she is driving at. Such as "do you enjoy being with me?" Or "can I be honest?".

While she may be extraverted or chatty, it doesn't mean she communicates well. 

On 11/29/2022 at 12:53 AM, jul-els said:

🙂

 

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20 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

I did re-read it and you didn't say how many times you have met in person unless it was just one in person date which does have everything to do with your post.  If you have been "seeing her" for 2 months and only had one in person date that is a red flag and if she is being critical of your  conversation style after only meeting once it is a big red flag.

 Continue at your own peril.  She is too busy to have real dates, she is critical of very minor things and you are the first guy she has dated since her divorce.  Not good

Hopefully I am wrong but I see you already contorting yourself so you can continue seeing her when it should be give and take, not just give give give.

Best wishes

 Lost

Wow, the number of assumptions being made here is quite significant. It’s one of the main reasons I don’t spend a lot of time on this site. Some of the help is very thoughtful, but the majority is projection-based assumptions, cobbling together potential problems out of limited information. Romance is a game of chance. One in which there are many different variables, the variables always being unique to each individual’s situation. It’s best not to take a fragment of a picture and run with it to it’s most negative possible outcome if you’re genuinely interested in helping others. Thanks for the unsolicited advice, but it’s not my first time around the block. 

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So clarify for us then.  We can only go by what you have said and what you will not say...

The fact that you have avoided saying how many in person dates you have had would lead most to assume you do not want to disclose it because it looks bad to your wanted outcome.

  I do hope I am wrong and it all works out but this reminds me of the woman you dated with the two teenage kids except she wouldn't talk and this one won't let you talk.

Good luck

Lost 

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