How to bring up no more dating after one passes?

[user0x24]

Well two things:

 

1. I think I can understand your demand for loyalty.

I believe it makes you really value the relationship, if you know that it's the only relationship you and your partner would ever have.

I believe it's a preference that people will have a strong and permanent preference about - it's not like a minor preference that is just brought about when it's relevant.

So you can bring it up as early as you want and the person will be either horrified (I believe it to be far more often than not) or really excited (and then you likely found one another). The earlier you bring it the earlier you know the relationship has future.

You can also write it on your dating profile if you have one.

Maybe there is even a community of such people where you can discuss this outlook on life?

 

2. Another thing that got my attention is that you wrote that you bounce after the first date because dating distracts you from your work and that you don't believe that having a (sexual) relationship is necessary for happiness.

I'm not sure how is it consistent with your being fascinated by the idea of a suicide pact in case when loving people can't be together.

While it's understandable that having any sexual relationship is not a prerequisite for happiness, you seem to believe that having the right romantic relationship is the only thing that makes the life worth living.

And it it's so, how investing your time in work is more important than investing it into finding the right relationship?

[Cherylyn]

You can't predict the future with a partner and it would be unfair to both sides to set parameters, restrictions, make promises neither of you can keep and have unrealistic expectations.

 

Dating and getting to know people is a painstakingly long process. Getting to know a person, their family, friends, lifestyle, habits good or bad, personality, character, integrity or lack thereof requires lots of time, energy and resources.

 

Dating and weeding out the bad apples requires painful breakups along the way. This is the risk and gamble you take in life.

 

If you'd like to screen people early, you need to narrow down your search. Certain groups of people are more apt to be serious and committed early on regarding relationships leading to marriage such as some Christians and other religious groups, for example.

 

I'm similar to your grandmother and more old school. Not that this is for everyone but I knew I found "thee one" after only dating my husband for several months. We were engaged within a year and married the following year. It was a short courtship. I was only 22 years old and he was 23 years old. No regrets!

 

It's a great big world out there and I feel that you have to be awfully lucky and fortunate to find the right partner or spouse. Finding the ideal partner or spouse is like winning the lottery IMHO. It can be done though as long as you can afford to be picky and very choosy. Never settle for mediocre people.

[abitbroken]

If i died tomorrow, i would not want my guy to be alone for the rest of his life. That is Waaayy too much to ask of someone who has just met you. As I get older, the more i think i would not marry/be in a relationship if my guy died before me - i would be content to have had that great love and my life is full with family and interests and i probably wouldn't have another, but if you are in your 20s, that's cruel and unrealistic. If i was 24 again - i'd walk away from someone who expected that because 1) dying was the furthest thing from my mind at that age 2) if someone expected me to be a widow at27 and never marry and have kids because i promised to be alone forever for them, i would find that very controling.

 

I wonder if you secretly believe that you are unworthy of finding someone so you create impossible expectations to make it so you never find anyone and can support your theory worldview that nobody is out there who meet your standards.

[Clio]

Imo, real love is about wanting the other person to be happy again if you were to die. Wanting them to be alone for the rest of their lives should you pass away sounds extremely selfish and egotistical and the opposite of true love. What they choose to do after you cease to exist is not about you in any way and has nothing to do with polyamory. Even the girl in the Japanese film you mentioned, most probably never asked, wanted or expected that guy to die with her, it was the guy's personal choice and had he consulted with her she would have told him to carry on living and find a way to be happy again if she loved him as much as he loved her. Real love is about wanting the other person to be happy not alone or dead. Once you cease to exist all relationship obligations end. Cultures where women were killed when their husband died do not signify anything about love, they do signify how women have been oppressed and been treated as objects/slaves/second class citizens in the past. It's no coincidence that these cultures didn't hold the same standard for men.

[Grimlockkk]

Give himself to his career. I think Jiro is a model everyone should strive to follow. Greatness is the goal.

[Grimlockkk]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, it sounds like you've got a whole lot more to unpack than being concerned a woman might not feel obligated to die alone once you've passed.

 

I don't throw the "t" word around very often, but hopefully you're pursuing some form of therapy. I'm the last person to judge someone for the content of their favorite movies, but applying one where a guy shoots his wife and then himself as any sort of romantic standard, even if vaguely, is more than a little bit concerning. There's about 1,000 miles of distance between expecting self-imposed celibacy after a partner's passing and casual sex, [insert sweeping judgment of "young people"], polyamory, etc. Genuinely, I wish you luck finding a much happier medium. Let us know how it goes.

 

It's the Japanese ideal. They value loyalty to kin over all else. It started when the only option was mutually agreed upon suicide between couples that were not allowed to marry. Remember, they're big folk tale involves 47 samurai breaking the law, killing the Daimyo who killed their retainer and then all 47 immediately committing suicide after getting revenge. A lot of Westerners see that movie the same way. The Japanese see it as an ideal to strive for.

[Grimlockkk]

I find your thought process to be totally unrealistic and unreasonable. Expecting a person to never date or marry if you should die first is crazy. Why should you expect that out of someone? You cant control what they would do after you die!

 

What if you die young and your partner is roughly the same age, do you expect them to go the next 50 or more years alone? How selfish is that, not to mention foolish? Yeah I think a few sessions with an online therapist could help you unravel your warped thinking process.

 

I'd do it for them. I view any other treatment of a partner as a slight towards their honor. It might be more of a conservative world view. There are traditional Indian cultures where the wife gets burned on the funeral pyre. I would not want her to be coerced into it, but would not be opposed to her volunteering. I would not want it for her either.

 

I don't care if they have a companion or friends. I just don't see dating as respecting my memory. I'd be fine with them hiring an escort.

 

My grandfather doesn't flirt with the ladies in the home, and my grandma went a good 25 years. After their partners passed they were too distraught to think of ever dating again.

 

Besides, I'm more likely to live longer as I have a very long lived family. My grandpa will most likely reach 100, and his father did the same. Plus I have all of the longevity genes.

 

I'm just taking it a little farther than those two, and believe a modified code of Bushido makes sense for relationships. You see this coming up in Japanese media all the time with lovers attached through reincarnation cycles. A bond for eternity is the ideal.

[Grimlockkk]

You want to blame it on "young people being frivolous" but I've worked in healthcare for over 10 years and I have seen a lot of older people die - do you know how many remained COMPLETELY single until the very end after a partner died? Well, not many. Most didn't remarry but many still had boyfriends/girlfriends. Some didn't have sex again but they would go on little dates and kiss.

 

I used to date primarily much older men and in each of those relationships, each always told me "I'd hate for you to be alone when I'm gone".

 

When you are dead and gone, why would you demand loyalty over their happiness? What good does that do? Why does the image of a lonely, sad person waiting until the inevitable end please you?

 

Because I gain happiness from giving the same level of loyalty. I expect my partner to put me above the rest of society, and I do the same for them. Mafia men stayed silent on Jimmy Hoffa even after everyone else passed. I just want that loyalty you have between males in my romantic relationships as well.

[Grimlockkk]

Given that you have one thread focused on wrangling control of the past, and controlling someone from your past to fit into your personal narrative, I would challenge yourself to ask why preemptive control of the future, and another human being's future once you've stopped existing, is so important to you.

 

I care most about achieving greatness in my life time. I felt that way when I was three years old, and still feel the same way in my thirties. That woman just had all of the check boxes for a long term partner including technical skills. (meeting someone else close to her took me 18 years) My end goal in dating is setting up a mutually shared artistic legacy as I have no interest in childrearing.

 

She definitely had issues, most likely BPD, and people with that generally reject committed partners for subconscious reasons. Plus we clearly almost got back together at one point. I just backed down in the argument over us just breaking up again. I wanted to point out the logical fallacies in her thinking, (we could just add the problem) and she was clearly some what interested in me till I asked for commitment. We broke up because her mother passed when three, and she has a rather poor father figure that let his friend hit on her. If anything, since she's talented, I want to save her from the fate of her father at the very least, which is having no friends and no partner. (I don't believe he dated since his wife passed away in her thirties) I just wish she'd go to therapy as she clearly has a mental issues based on unclear behavior. She'd be jumping up kissing my forehead, during a college visit, and be pissed at me for contacting her once I got back. Communication fell apart from merely me enjoying her company. I was a bigger threat than guys wanting casual sex as I was deeply committed to her, and she avoids getting close to others from really traumatic tragic events in the past.

 

I'm not saying I don't have issues too. It's just sad that she's essentially broken, and as the anxious partner in the relationship I'm consciously aware of all of the relationship problems we had, while she actively avoids them, and blamed me for occasionally making her feel bad as a result of my anxious chatter making her aware of lacking close friends and other issues.

 

Again I'm fine with not dating her. The close friendship was more important anyways.

[Grimlockkk]

nobody can control what happens to anybody in future i think legally also if you were married and death happenned, a widow or widower can marry anybody he/she wishes to.

You will get a perfect response from a lawyer on this before you even think of putting this argument before your potential partner.

Kinda strange dont you feel i am dead and i need to ensure my alive partner does not date,live or marry anybody else, just doesnt make sense. More than strange i wouldn't date anyone who actually spoke to me about this, will feel weird about that person to be honest would be deal breaker right

 

Again it's common Japanese practice. Not in the US, but in Japan you can file for posthumous divorce, and it's a recent phenomenon with very few actually applying for it, and legal clerks not even being aware the procedure was possible.

 

I don't want a legal document declaring this either as it's more of a personal oath to each other. I will have a prenup, as I decided that was a wise decision to contemplate the relationship ending while in it, and avoiding an acrimonious divorce, and probably divorce period by drafting a document laying out how ending the relationship gets handled.

[Grimlockkk]

I don’t see how this shows loyalty. I am very lucky and have an extremely devoted husband who loves me dearly, but I can tell you that if I were to drop dead tomorrow, he would be remarried in a year. He has taken great care of me through very bad health situations and difficult family problems and is a wonderful spouse — that is loyalty. We have been married for more than 30 years and you know what? He really likes being married, which is why he would marry again. He likes having someone he can talk to, tell inane jokes to, travel, cook for and just hang around. I actually think it is a compliment when people remarry because it shows they enjoyed their previous marriages.

 

Again, it's something socially discouraged in Japan. I've always liked the level of loyalty they showed to kin. It makes for an extremely devoted relationship. Plus, I find something comforting about a partner being so wracked with grief they no longer want to exist. Whenever, I meet those elderly men you just know they're extremely devoted. Personally, if my partner passed I'd preserve the body and wait for medical science to figure out how to revive the dead. (researchers brought lower level function back in pigs brains. It's definitely possible)

[Grimlockkk]

Until death do you part....

 

its right there in the vows.

 

Depends on how you interpret "parting" I'd argue partners have not departed till both pass. It might be a Catholic interpretation of the vows. I just know my grand parents are getting buried next to each other. I think both surviving partners view it as cheating. Both of them declared their dating lives being over, and became very angry over my mother suggesting they can find someone new. They believe they'll be reunited in heaven. I understand there is nothing practical about this, and it's more of a romantic (the 19th century literary genre, not the modern day take) ideal.

[Grimlockkk]

You have every right to want a partner that's monogamous, doesn't have casual sex, etc. But requiring them to devote the rest of their lives to you and only you is unfair and unrealistic. Even if someone makes that promise when they are in love, how do you even know for sure? I mean, how can THEY even know for sure? I know people who were so gripped with grief when losing their spouses and didn't think they'd ever love again, but over time they were able to heal and became open to the idea of another relationship. As another poster mentioned, people who have had loving marriages/relationships tend to want to date again eventually, because that's the lifestyle they like. Granted, it would be hurtful when someone starts dating immediately once their spouse exhaled the last breath, but most loving, loyal (by common definition, which can be a bit different from yours) partners will not act that way. So, if you really need to know that your partner will not want to date again after you pass, your best bet would be a cold, aloof person who doesn't enjoy or value another human being's company very much. That way they wouldn't feel much loss after losing a partner and may choose to live the rest of their lives enjoying being single.

 

Note that your expectation should go both ways. How would you feel if your partner passes first and you have to live lonely for the rest 30-40 years? Would you be able to guarantee that you would never have feelings for someone again, or when you do you will suppress that feeling and never act on it? Would you judge yourself for being not loyal, should you want to be loved again?

 

Also, love suicide is by no means "extremely popular" in Japan or anywhere. It exists, perhaps in many cultures and societies, but always rare unless one party (usually women) is forced to sacrifice themselves when their partners die. That is oppression, not loyalty.

 

The cultural variation I'm referring to exists pretty much exclusively in Japan. Japan also has the highest suicide rate in the world, as their culture historically viewed it as the right act in certain situations. You have to remember there were samurai that were irritated over their retainer banning their own suicide after he passed, and those practices are why the US almost lost the Pacific theater. It's probably not as common as it was 400 years ago, as back then there were bans on marrying between castes, and certain professions were not allowed to marry. You probably see it more in traditional families that still have arranged marriages. As marriage is not for love, but improving your families social standing, traditionally.

 

Yes, I would be fine with it going both ways. If I developed feelings for someone else I would suppress them, and I would not be lonely. I'd be in love with the dead, which no living person can compete with.

 

Wanting to have another romantic partner is something I would have no interest in. Besides, I have dreams for that, and her memory strengthen me. Plus if we had planned a burial plot getting involved with another would be awkward.

[Grimlockkk]

Club drugs and worrying about posthumous dating are something you can discuss with your doctor and therapist.

 

Well, they are being used for couples therapy and ptsd. It forces barriers down, and requires you to empathize with other humanbeings. The only reason research was stopped was over Nancy Regan being informed by tarot cards to ban it, and her influencing Regan. You take the drug, and then meditate. It's very different from the club scene. Here's a link to the scientific basis for the therapy.

 

https://theconversation.com/mdma-assisted-couples-therapy-how-a-psychedelic-is-enhancing-intimacy-and-healing-ptsd-127609

[Grimlockkk]

Well two things:

 

1. I think I can understand your demand for loyalty.

I believe it makes you really value the relationship, if you know that it's the only relationship you and your partner would ever have.

I believe it's a preference that people will have a strong and permanent preference about - it's not like a minor preference that is just brought about when it's relevant.

So you can bring it up as early as you want and the person will be either horrified (I believe it to be far more often than not) or really excited (and then you likely found one another). The earlier you bring it the earlier you know the relationship has future.

You can also write it on your dating profile if you have one.

Maybe there is even a community of such people where you can discuss this outlook on life?

 

2. Another thing that got my attention is that you wrote that you bounce after the first date because dating distracts you from your work and that you don't believe that having a (sexual) relationship is necessary for happiness.

I'm not sure how is it consistent with your being fascinated by the idea of a suicide pact in case when loving people can't be together.

While it's understandable that having any sexual relationship is not a prerequisite for happiness, you seem to believe that having the right romantic relationship is the only thing that makes the life worth living.

And it it's so, how investing your time in work is more important than investing it into finding the right relationship?

 

1. I want a marriage that also includes us working together professionally. I'd like to find that person. It's just extremely rare. It would have been ideal to find them in my college days, but I was involved with a person that wasn't clear about our status.

 

2. I think asking right away is a no go as that's loyalty you build over time. I just find people that maintain loyalty after death you never have to worry about them cheating, or some other form of betrayal. Personally, I feel less pain when a loved one passes than a betrayal brings. If my ex had passed in high school I would have devoted my life to honoring her memory. I've always had extreme views on loyalty, and it's why samurai culture interests me.

[Grimlockkk]

You can't predict the future with a partner and it would be unfair to both sides to set parameters, restrictions, make promises neither of you can keep and have unrealistic expectations.

 

Dating and getting to know people is a painstakingly long process. Getting to know a person, their family, friends, lifestyle, habits good or bad, personality, character, integrity or lack thereof requires lots of time, energy and resources.

 

Dating and weeding out the bad apples requires painful breakups along the way. This is the risk and gamble you take in life.

 

If you'd like to screen people early, you need to narrow down your search. Certain groups of people are more apt to be serious and committed early on regarding relationships leading to marriage such as some Christians and other religious groups, for example.

 

I'm similar to your grandmother and more old school. Not that this is for everyone but I knew I found "thee one" after only dating my husband for several months. We were engaged within a year and married the following year. It was a short courtship. I was only 22 years old and he was 23 years old. No regrets!

 

It's a great big world out there and I feel that you have to be awfully lucky and fortunate to find the right partner or spouse. Finding the ideal partner or spouse is like winning the lottery IMHO. It can be done though as long as you can afford to be picky and very choosy. Never settle for mediocre people.

 

Thank you. Yeah, it's something you build towards. Yeah, very few people get their ideal. I'm just not willing to settle. I do have a person I could have a very long committed relationship with. I just have to give up on working together professionally, most likely.

 

Odd thing is she's a pagan, and has been polyamorous, but I trust her to not cheat. We've just always stayed in touch. Plus I can pull her out of poverty, which is how heterosexual relationships generally work. Women marry up or across for the most part economically.

[SophiaG]

The cultural variation I'm referring to exists pretty much exclusively in Japan. Japan also has the highest suicide rate in the world, as their culture historically viewed it as the right act in certain situations. You have to remember there were samurai that were irritated over their retainer banning their own suicide after he passed, and those practices are why the US almost lost the Pacific theater. It's probably not as common as it was 400 years ago, as back then there were bans on marrying between castes, and certain professions were not allowed to marry. You probably see it more in traditional families that still have arranged marriages. As marriage is not for love, but improving your families social standing, traditionally.

 

Yes, I would be fine with it going both ways. If I developed feelings for someone else I would suppress them, and I would not be lonely. I'd be in love with the dead, which no living person can compete with.

 

Wanting to have another romantic partner is something I would have no interest in. Besides, I have dreams for that, and her memory strengthen me. Plus if we had planned a burial plot getting involved with another would be awkward.

 

Interesting. I just checked this and while Japan does have a relatively high suicide rate, it is not the highest in the world. South Korea has it higher. The highest are Lithuania and Russia. Still, even in a country with strong suicidal culture a very small minority of the population actually choose that route. From what I know of Japan today many of the young people simply can't be bothered with love or marriage. I doubt the idea of love suicide would be very appealing to them.

 

You seem to be fascinated by Japan, or at least this specific part of the Japanese culture. Have you lived in the country or dated Japanese women? Maybe you will have a better chance meeting someone with similar ideals from Japan?

[abitbroken]

Thank you. Yeah, it's something you build towards. Yeah, very few people get their ideal. I'm just not willing to settle. I do have a person I could have a very long committed relationship with. I just have to give up on working together professionally, most likely.

 

Odd thing is she's a pagan, and has been polyamorous, but I trust her to not cheat. We've just always stayed in touch. Plus I can pull her out of poverty, which is how heterosexual relationships generally work. Women marry up or across for the most part economically.

 

Dude, stay away from this woman. Do not "pull someone out of poverty". Women are not looking for someone to pity them.

[abitbroken]

I am going to make an educated guess that the OP has never had a relationship with a woman of any length...

[boltnrun]

"Plus I can pull her out of poverty, which is how heterosexual relationships generally work."

 

So in general, women are poverty-stricken until they find a man to rescue them?

 

Interesting theory...

[j.man]

Odd thing is she's a pagan, and has been polyamorous, but I trust her to not cheat. We've just always stayed in touch. Plus I can pull her out of poverty, which is how heterosexual relationships generally work. Women marry up or across for the most part economically.

Many women do "marry up" at the expense of the men they engage with. At the same time, many such men are perfectly content dangling the carrot of economic prosperity so that they may leverage power and coerce such women into complying to abusive standards.

 

Sincerely, get help. I don't want to see you nor any women you may date in a headline. You have issues that need addressing.