Talking about race in a relationship

[itsallgrand]

Thank you everyone.

Yes, I'm not worried about falling into a role of mothering him. Our dynamic is not like that, though we are both very affectionate people.

It was an occurance that took me aback. Him too. He was surprised to have felt as strongly as he did and the feelings it brought up.

I was actually kind of proud of him for acknowledging and letting himself feel these things, which must have been sitting there inside. Like I said, this reaction of his doesn't usually happen.

I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. He is going to take it from here as far as seeking someone he can dive into this with , and I think that's good. I can't give professional guidance, and he seems to think that would help him - I'm on board.

 

He's back to his cheery self. I appreciate all the responses. I don't think any less of him for having cried nor his reaction - these things happen, we are human. I certainly have had my moments, particularly when my mom was I'll.

That's part of being partners, being the soft place to fall .

[katrina1980]

Often times, experiencing these moments together can bring you closer too, increase the intimacy between you.

 

I have found that to be true in my relationship(s) anyway.

 

Well done itsallgrand!!

[figureitout23]

Misread sorry

[Billie28]

It seems that people took my wording of “mothering” as being patronising.

It wasn’t intended to be.

 

Neither I or anyone else knows why the OP’s partner had such an emotional response to what he witnessed and I’m actually not sure the OP does either.

Which makes me question if it’s a racial issue or a personal one?

 

He was emotional to the extent that she stayed on the phone to him while he drove home and hugged him when he got home until he felt consoled.

 

An adult needs to be able to self soothe.

No matter what the trigger is!

Of course a partner should be there to support ! But a child needs soothing until they learn to self soothe. Only.

 

This thread is not actually about race, I believe.

 

It’s more about an adult who still depends on the consolation from another, was his mother and now it’s his partner.

[Seraphim]

As she said it was a one time incident. Hell, I have need help to soothe before. I don’t think I was looking for a daddy just help from my partner because that’s what they are there for .

[Billie28]

As she said it was a one time incident. Hell, I have need help to soothe before. I don’t think I was looking for a daddy just help from my partner because that’s what they are there for .

 

“. Sometimes I just don't know what to say or do when he expresses to me some of his feelings and experiences that come down to how he's been treated at times due to his race.”

 

“It’s come up a few times”

 

She described one incident. Yet there have been more. Clearly.

[Batya33]

Self-soothing is a skill. So is knowing when to ask for help and how to communicate that effectively.

[Seraphim]

“. Sometimes I just don't know what to say or do when he expresses to me some of his feelings and experiences that come down to how he's been treated at times due to his race.”

 

“It’s come up a few times”

 

She described one incident. Yet there have been more. Clearly.

 

So you should never get comfort from your partner?

[Batya33]

Self-soothing is a skill. So is knowing when to ask for help and how to communicate that effectively.

 

Oh and I will always soothe my child no matter how old he is if he needs it or asks for it whether or not he can "self soothe" - the type of soothing can change over time, and changes depending on the situation but I am not concerned that it will interfere with his "self soothing" skills to know his parents support him and are by his side if he needs soothing, reassurance, whatever.

[Rose Mosse]

I don't think the point is to question whether this is a racial issue or not. The OP (itsallgrand) headlined the topic of this thread 'talking about race in a relationship'. I don't know how much clearer a person can get to an attempt at dealing with racial issues or cultural differences in a relationship. I also think it's interesting that some refuse to talk about it or keep bringing this back to a psychological issue of soothing. It's really undermining the entire topic, to be honest. I agree that everyone should be able to filter their emotions. Not recognizing or accepting systemic issues or discrimination when they are clearly labeled and associated as such doesn't help eliminate and fight against racial stereotypes and a feeling of complete exclusion in society. What you're actually doing is dumbing down the issue of racial stereotyping and racism that still runs rampant whether it's subversive (as in the case of this thread, specifically about race) or explicit.

[katrina1980]

Hi Billie, I always respect your opinions, you often provide lots of valuable insight, gets my brain thinking as it is now, so wondering what would you have done if you found yourself in itsallgrand's situation?

 

How would you have reacted to him calling you, upset about what he had just witnessed?

 

And upon returning home, turning to you, his gf/fiancé, for comfort and support.

 

Would you have comforted him, listening, holding him as itsallgrand did?

 

Or encouraged him to learn how to self soothe better?

 

I am not being flip, I promise!

 

I am genuinely curious how you would have reacted and what advice you have for itsallgrand moving forward. :)

[Batya33]

I don't think the point is to question whether this is a racial issue or not. The OP (itsallgrand) headlined the topic of this thread 'talking about race in a relationship'. I don't know how much clearer a person can get to an attempt at dealing with racial issues or cultural differences in a relationship. I also think it's interesting that some refuse to talk about it or keep bringing this back to a psychological issue of soothing. It's really undermining the entire topic, to be honest. I agree that everyone should be able to filter their emotions. Not recognizing or accepting systemic issues or discrimination when they are clearly labeled and associated as such doesn't help eliminate and fight against racial stereotypes and a feeling of complete exclusion in society. What you're actually doing is dumbing down the issue of racial stereotyping and racism that still runs rampant whether it's subversive (as in the case of this thread, specifically about race) or explicit.

 

I'm not refusing to talk about race although I would prefer not to on this thread particularly given concerns of where that can go on this Forum given the moderator guidelines and rules. As I wrote I have no personal experience with it in a romantic relationship and if I did I'd talk to the OP about in PM. It's a choice I'm entitled to make and I feel I can contribute without discussing the issue of racism. And I am not familiar with exactly what kind of racism her fiancee is experiencing so I can't be of much help there. Having said that I do want to support and help.

[katrina1980]

From itsallgrand's original post.

 

He was crying on the phone. I talked with him til he got home, and I sat by him just hugging him. He is a big bear of a man, and he was crying telling me how helpless he felt. What is wrong with people? He kept saying. And how he is so sick of seeing people of his race treated like animals. The lady was of his race, the man not. He said a lot more but it all came down to this deep pain he has of the racism. Seeing that assault really brought it to the surface.

How do you support a partner when it comes to this? I'm looking for any tips or insight.

---

 

She was (is) asking for advice as to how to support/soothe him, so to me this is about both racial issues and the psychological issue of soothing, as Rose referred to it.

[Batya33]

From itsallgrand's original post.

 

He was crying on the phone. I talked with him til he got home, and I sat by him just hugging him. He is a big bear of a man, and he was crying telling me how helpless he felt. What is wrong with people? He kept saying. And how he is so sick of seeing people of his race treated like animals. The lady was of his race, the man not. He said a lot more but it all came down to this deep pain he has of the racism. Seeing that assault really brought it to the surface.

How do you support a partner when it comes to this? I'm looking for any tips or insight.

---

 

She was (is) asking for advice as to how to support/soothe him, so to me this is about both racial issues and the psychological issue of soothing, as Rose referred to it.

 

Yes, this is how I interpreted it as well. I don't like the implication by Rose that there are people "refusing" to talk about race. People are entitled to approach this subject in whatever way feels comfortable and to contribute in whatever way makes sense.

[itsallgrand]

“. Sometimes I just don't know what to say or do when he expresses to me some of his feelings and experiences that come down to how he's been treated at times due to his race.”

 

“It’s come up a few times”

 

She described one incident. Yet there have been more. Clearly.

 

Let me clarify. This is the first time he has reacted as he did after this particular incident.

However , yes, we have had conversations before where he's shared some of his experiences and feelings about racism he has experienced. I haven't shared here all the particular details of his experiences, because it doesn't feel right putting that up for possible dissection ( it would be different if it was my own experiences to share). I was hoping people would take that as is, that yes, we have different experiences moving around in this world.

And it will be an ongoing bits of convo for as long as we are together, particularly since we want to bring a child into our family. I think I don't want to pretend it's not there. FIO explained in a way how I feel, not wanting to invalidate what is real for him just because it's uncomfortable for me to hear . And it is at times.

 

I did want advice on how to navigate these kinds of convos, and I got some good tips. I also wanted to know how best to be there, and I got good advice i can use. Always happy for more though.

 

To be honest, I don't think it's fair to say he has issues with self soothing because he broke down one time. My comforting him was just what I know to do when someone I love is really hurting.

[abitbroken]

Whatever anyone's opinions on intergenerational and race-based trauma are, it is at the end of his day to adequately cope with their ramifications or to seek help in doing so if he innately cannot. This of course is coupled with society's responsibility to combat the injustices which induced and continue to induce said traumas. It's by no means fair, but it is what it is. It's one thing if you're being asked to step up to the plate and offer a shoulder as you'd typically expect a partner to, but it's another if you're essentially being the person charged with his reconciling of the world around him. Gauge which role you feel he's having you fill, and sensibly but sensitively suggest he seek someone much better trained and equipped to help him in the endeavor should you feel you're serving as the latter. Not being an active party or observer, I'll defer to your judgement.

 

FWIW, I'm white Hispanic. Growing up, the racism was very tangible. My grandparents fled Spain after Franco successfully took power and landed in a Mexican-American community for the sake of lingual familiarity. Spanish is my first language. I didn't speak a word of English until I was 4 and the preschool informed my mother I couldn't be enrolled unless I spoke English. I was mocked and beat up on account of my accent (spoke with a hint Andaluz growing up until I trained myself to speak in a more Mexican accent). In age, I was treated better than the odd and unfortunate white boy who didn't have a Spanish last name to fall back on, but I was never considered part of the community on account of, at the end of the day, being white. I ended up going to high school in South Chicago, where I was henceforth known as "a fake Mexican" (for having Spanish surnames, not for ever claiming to be Mexican) among other much less savory Hispanic and white slurs all my years there, while routinely beat up for not having the money I was expected to have and provide on account of my skin color. That experience in an almost all-black high school was actually why I then and to this day low-key use my dad's non-Spanish name, though it's admittedly much more out of habit nowadays.

 

Now I don't tell that account to serve as a dog whistle or a segue for someone to come in and talk about how the Irish had it just as bad as the African slaves. On the contrary, I hope it qualifies to the more skeptical among us that I do have some particular cause to be sensitive to what are still and unfortunately pervasive issues of race. But there's only so much you can be expected to be responsible for helping someone else take in the world as it is, though hopefully not what it will continue to be. It's important to be sensitive, but it's just as important to still treat him as an adult. Again, you being the a much better authority than me with regard to your relationship, I'll leave it up to you whether you feel boundaries need to start being drawn.

 

The bolded line resonated with me a lot.

[Seraphim]

Let me clarify. This is the first time he has reacted as he did after this particular incident.

However , yes, we have had conversations before where he's shared some of his experiences and feelings about racism he has experienced. I haven't shared here all the particular details of his experiences, because it doesn't feel right putting that up for possible dissection ( it would be different if it was my own experiences to share). I was hoping people would take that as is, that yes, we have different experiences moving around in this world.

And it will be an ongoing bits of convo for as long as we are together, particularly since we want to bring a child into our family. I think I don't want to pretend it's not there. FIO explained in a way how I feel, not wanting to invalidate what is real for him just because it's uncomfortable for me to hear . And it is at times.

 

I did want advice on how to navigate these kinds of convos, and I got some good tips. I also wanted to know how best to be there, and I got good advice i can use. Always happy for more though.

 

To be honest, I don't think it's fair to say he has issues with self soothing because he broke down one time. My comforting him was just what I know to do when someone I love is really hurting.

You did just great. I promise. Everyone needs a cuddle in times of need. ZERO wrong with it.

 

I remember years ago when my husband attempted suicide and was beating himself after I had to take him to the psych ward at the hospital. After 12 hours of squaring things away I went to go home. I was so distraught and migraine befuddled that I could not remember how to drive home. My mom talked me home and held me after while I sobbed.

 

I also held my husband while he wept in the hospital and at home .

 

Sometimes human contact IS necessary.

[Rose Mosse]

I'm going to repeat again the headline: "Talking about race in a relationship"

 

I think where the confusion might lie is with individuals who don't have experience dealing with racism in general, not just in a relationship. While I think all your opinions are valuable, where it starts to get extra confusing and disrespectful is where the topic of racism is glossed over or not addressed or categorized as something else. When I first clicked on the thread and read Itsallgrand's topic, I saw that she was a long time member and no stranger to how the forums work. Her tone in her initial post indicated love and support for a significant other and it even indicated that the topic required some sensitivity. To suggest that self-soothing and better navigation of emotions or that her partner was unhinged or disabled in some way in the expression of his emotions within such a close relationship is unbelievably offensive and disrespectful not only to their relationship but to the topic of racism. I am in some disbelief that this could be misconstrued as a misappropriation of emotions or a failure to regulate one's emotions. I can only attribute this to a lack of experience and understanding which is, again, why I'd emphasize I value your opinions, Batya, Katrina and Billie, but am seriously questioning whether there is enough understanding on the topic of racism as a whole (referring back to the headline).

 

Understandably, when topics are put out there, we can expect not everyone will understand or have walked a similar path. I myself have come across as clueless, I'm sure, when it comes to self-help and issues regarding therapy and psychologists (have never had a reason for much of it in my life and therefore it holds little meaning to me or emphasis in my interpretation of the world). But what I have learned reading on the forums is that this kind of help is helpful to individuals who are unlike me and to individuals who have encountered issues that I wouldn't even have been able to dream up of. The first step in breaking down ignorance is in acknowledging those differences and accepting what those issues really are. This topic is about racism and dealing with race in a relationship. I hope we can respect that as such.

[katrina1980]

W/r/t some of these responses, and not judging we all have our own thoughts and opinions, but reading them, I am wondering if they were in part due to some folks (in real life too) feeling a bit uncomfortable when a man expresses that type of vulnerability.

 

I have to admit, I had my own feelings about it; reading Seraphim's post about how she needed to be comforted and talked down, soothed, my initial thought was, oh but she's a woman!

 

It's ok and acceptable for a woman to need support, nurturing, soothing, but a man?

 

Men are supposed to be strong and tough, handle such things on their own!

 

My dad was that way and so are my brothers.

 

It's only within the last few years that I recognize that men feel vulnerable too and sometimes need a hug.

 

I actually love it now when my bf displays his vulnerability. Not too much but sometimes.

 

It reflects how much he trusts me with his deeper feelings and to me that makes me feel special and has actually brought us closer.

 

Anyway, no judgment, just wondering if it's part of it.

[Seraphim]

I'm going to repeat again the headline: "Talking about race in a relationship"

 

I think where the confusion might lie is with individuals who don't have experience dealing with racism in general, not just in a relationship. While I think all your opinions are valuable, where it starts to get extra confusing and disrespectful is where the topic of racism is glossed over or not addressed or categorized as something else. When I first clicked on the thread and read Itsallgrand's topic, I saw that she was a long time member and no stranger to how the forums work. Her tone in her initial post indicated love and support for a significant other and it even indicated that the topic required some sensitivity. To suggest that self-soothing and better navigation of emotions or that her partner was unhinged or disabled in some way in the expression of his emotions within such a close relationship is unbelievably offensive and disrespectful not only to their relationship but to the topic of racism. I am in some disbelief that this could be misconstrued as a misappropriation of emotions or a failure to regulate one's emotions. I can only attribute this to a lack of experience and understanding which is, again, why I'd emphasize I value your opinions, Batya, Katrina and Billie, but am seriously questioning whether there is enough understanding on the topic of racism as a whole (referring back to the headline).

 

Understandably, when topics are put out there, we can expect not everyone will understand or have walked a similar path. I myself have come across as clueless, I'm sure, when it comes to self-help and issues regarding therapy and psychologists (have never had a reason for much of it in my life and therefore it holds little meaning to me or emphasis in my interpretation of the world). But what I have learned reading on the forums is that this kind of help is helpful to individuals who are unlike me and to individuals who have encountered issues that I wouldn't even have been able to dream up of. The first step in breaking down ignorance is in acknowledging those differences and accepting what those issues really are. This topic is about racism and dealing with race in a relationship. I hope we can respect that as such.

I agree racism against our aboriginal peoples is still systemic here. :( and in some areas worse than others. Every generation is impacted. It is comparable to racism against black people in the US.

[SarahLancaster]

W/r/t some of these responses, and not judging we all have our own thoughts and opinions, but reading them, I am wondering if they were in part due to some folks (in real life too) feeling a bit uncomfortable when a man expresses that type of vulnerability.

 

I have to admit, I had my own feelings about it; reading Seraphim's post about how she needed to be comforted and talked down, soothed, my initial thought was, oh but she's a woman!

 

It's ok and acceptable for a woman to need support, nurturing, soothing, but a man?

 

Men are supposed to be strong and tough, handle such things on their own!

 

My dad was that way and so are my brothers.

 

It's only within the last few years that I recognize that men feel vulnerable too and sometimes need a hug.

 

I actually love it now when my bf displays his vulnerability. Not too much but sometimes.

 

It reflects how much he trusts me with his deeper feelings and to me that makes me feel special and has actually brought us closer.

 

Anyway, no judgment, just wondering if it's part of it.

 

Katrina, I think that's a very astute observation. Those of us (of a certain age) were raised to think of 'sensitive' men as weak, especially if you were brought up in an Italian environment. So I guess it's ingrained in me that a man should be a man and not cry and need hours of consoling over witnessing something he saw on the street. I have seen manly men shed tears over very sad and tragic situations, but it's the extended sobbing that kind of gets to me and the protracted commiseration that ensued over something that may have amounted to nothing more than a lovers' squabble.

 

I know others will disagree and say that it's great for men to show their vulnerable side. I get that. We all have our fixed ideas, don't we?

[Seraphim]

I don’t think it is protracted though to be upset for a day.

[Seraphim]

I would be upset a whole heck of a lot longer than a day if I had witnessed that.

[itsallgrand]

Katrina, I think that's a very astute observation. Those of us (of a certain age) were raised to think of 'sensitive' men as weak, especially if you were brought up in an Italian environment. So I guess it's ingrained in me that a man should be a man and not cry and need hours of consoling over witnessing something he saw on the street. I have seen manly men shed tears over very sad and tragic situations, but it's the extended sobbing that kind of gets to me and the protracted commiseration that ensued over something that may have amounted to nothing more than a lovers' squabble.

 

I know others will disagree and say that it's great for men to show their vulnerable side. I get that. We all have our fixed ideas, don't we?

 

Well this helps me understand your perspective better.

 

I'll have to say, I don't think of a woman being beaten and bloodied on the street as a mere lovers quarrel. It was a situation severe enough that 3 seperate strangers ( one being my partner) intervened while driving by the scene.

 

It's ok if you don't understand his upset, and if you think he shouldn't have shed tears.

 

It didn't even occur to me to judge him as weak. I'm sure he's heard his fair share of that, men have to be the rock all the time.

 

The issue isn't really about concern over him being weak or not manly enough. But yes, I get your perspective on this.

[Batya33]

Well this helps me understand your perspective better.

 

I'll have to say, I don't think of a woman being beaten and bloodied on the street as a mere lovers quarrel. It was a situation severe enough that 3 seperate strangers ( one being my partner) intervened while driving by the scene.

 

It's ok if you don't understand his upset, and if you think he shouldn't have shed tears.

 

It didn't even occur to me to judge him as weak. I'm sure he's heard his fair share of that, men have to be the rock all the time.

 

The issue isn't really about concern over him being weak or not manly enough. But yes, I get your perspective on this.

 

Also it's possible he's been bottling up other sadness and this helped it all come out?

 

I also have "the Rock" thing ingrained in me. And when my husband and I both got teary during the ceremony where we shared why we chose a certain name for him (because we explained the background/history of who he was named for) I was just so overwhelmed with admiration for him - not for "crying in public" but for being so present and in the moment and feeling the enormity of all of those loved ones we were mentioning and history of our families. And yes there was a time when I would have thought of a man crying as "weak".