Sex on first date

[bluecastle]

This thread is really breaking my heart.

 

If the therapist you're working with isn't helping with this, I'd really suggest finding another one—someone with whom you can share this situation and who will help you untangle the roots rather than just offering medication. That can manage the anxiety, but you need to understand its source so it's less mysterious.

 

Much as I want to encourage you to relax, to chill, to try to have fun and focus on the fact that he's reaching out and showing interest, I can't in good faith believe that's possible from what you're writing here. Not with him, not with any man.

 

My ex-gf had some deep insecurity issues—like, I swear a lot of your posts sound painfully familiar. She thought I was so "hot." Had no idea why I was with her. Assumed all she had to offer was sex. Her level of jealousy was off the charts. She hid all this supremely well early—she was a ninja in this respect—and probably I turned a blind eye to it because who doesn't like that early feeling of being adored?

 

But even as it really began to seep out I honestly I couldn't quite believe she actually thought these things.

 

For starters, she is a cool, dynamic, startlingly beautiful woman, as you no doubt are as well. That's why I was with her, for years. If I wanted to numb my own insecurities by sleeping with a different person every week—well, I would have been doing that, or trying. More to the point: I don't self-identify as "hot" or "superior," and frankly any man who does is not worth a second of any woman's time, unless she's just looking for a romp with a vapid Ken Doll. And, if so, more power to her.

 

Anyhow, I'm not going to bore you with thee details of that relationship, but suffice to say it evolved into a case study in how insecurity can wreak havoc. Sabotage on a near nuclear scale. I never really felt she saw and appreciated me on a deeper level—I wanted my "warts and all" appreciated as much as my jawline—so that initial adoration just seemed superficial. Meanwhile, being with me basically just reinforced her self-identity as inferior—and I don't say that to sound arrogant. I'm no adonis with a Nobel-winning mind, just a dude who's pretty confident in my skin and accepting of my flaws. Point is, in her case being with any man would have had the same affect.

 

The resentments this created were toxic. The way she handled them even more so. We were never able to connect on the level that human beings deserve to connect on.

 

Also, for what it's worth, I have never valued a woman less after sleeping with her early. Never. I mean, c'mon: how absurd would it be to judge someone harshly for doing something I just did as well? And if this guy or any guy valued you less after sex—well, his loss, his stupidity. The bullet you dodged.

 

I don't even know you, but I do know this: you are awesome and beautiful and powerful and amazing in ways that are unique only to you. But until you know that, and can celebrate that truth before meeting a man, you're going to find yourself spinning around in the place you're in right now.

[blueowl32]

This thread is really breaking my heart.

 

If the therapist you're working with isn't helping with this, I'd really suggest finding another one—someone with whom you can share this situation and who will help you untangle the roots rather than just offering medication. That can manage the anxiety, but you need to understand its source so it's less mysterious.

 

Much as I want to encourage you to relax, to chill, to try to have fun and focus on the fact that he's reaching out and showing interest, I can't in good faith believe that's possible from what you're writing here. Not with him, not with any man.

 

My ex-gf had some deep insecurity issues—like, I swear a lot of your posts sound painfully familiar. She thought I was so "hot." Had no idea why I was with her. Assumed all she had to offer was sex. Her level of jealousy was off the charts. She hid all this supremely well early—she was a ninja in this respect—and probably I turned a blind eye to it because who doesn't like that early feeling of being adored?

 

But even as it really began to seep out I honestly I couldn't quite believe she actually thought these things.

 

For starters, she is a cool, dynamic, startlingly beautiful woman, as you no doubt are as well. That's why I was with her, for years. If I wanted to numb my own insecurities by sleeping with a different person every week—well, I would have been doing that, or trying. More to the point: I don't self-identify as "hot" or "superior," and frankly any man who does is not worth a second of any woman's time, unless she's just looking for a romp with a vapid Ken Doll. And, if so, more power to her.

 

Anyhow, I'm not going to bore you with thee details of that relationship, but suffice to say it evolved into a case study in how insecurity can wreak havoc. Sabotage on a near nuclear scale. I never really felt she saw and appreciated me on a deeper level—I wanted my "warts and all" appreciated as much as my jawline—so that initial adoration just seemed superficial. Meanwhile, being with me basically just reinforced her self-identity as inferior—and I don't say that to sound arrogant. I'm no adonis with a Nobel-winning mind, just a dude who's pretty confident in my skin and accepting of my flaws. Point is, in her case being with any man would have had the same affect.

 

The resentments this created were toxic. The way she handled them even more so. We were never able to connect on the level that human beings deserve to connect on.

 

Also, for what it's worth, I have never valued a woman less after sleeping with her early. Never. I mean, c'mon: how absurd would it be to judge someone harshly for doing something I just did as well? And if this guy or any guy valued you less after sex—well, his loss, his stupidity. The bullet you dodged.

 

I don't even know you, but I do know this: you are awesome and beautiful and powerful and amazing in ways that are unique only to you. But until you know that, and can celebrate that truth before meeting a man, you're going to find yourself spinning around in the place you're in right now.

 

Thanks, this means a lot.

 

With the previous guy (who some of the posters here know about) jealousy was off the chart too. He stuck around for 2 years too... that's why I still have trouble convincing myself that he's a jerk that he didn't want me. My insecurities, craziness, jealousy, and can't be happy without him vibe explains why he didn't want me.

[blueowl32]

The resentments built ended your relationship?

What resentments did you experience?

 

The (previous) guy kept saying I wish you loved yourself and realised how amazing you are too

 

Maybe.. if I just believe.. sometimes, deep at the back of my head I know...I am amazing, I just always thought I wasn't physically pretty enough

[bluecastle]

I would say a lot of things ended that relationship, including plenty of my own behavior. But I'll share a bit of the story in hopes it helps you.

 

The resentments: She had it in her head, like deep, that I was never really into her. I'd say that was her headspace before I walked in the door on date one, and certainly after we first slept together. I think she looked at me in bed and thought: no way is he into me. After the first time, after the 100th. I suspect—but didn't know this at the time—that that's how she's felt about most men she's interested in, before me and since.

 

And you know what? In the beginning there was some truth to that, as there should be. I'm not going to drift off to the moon after a weekend of hot sex or a weekend of deep conversations. Not with her, not with a model, not with a movie star. Nor do I expect someone to be really into me after any of that; in fact, I find it insincere if they are. It means they're really into the idea of being really into someone—probably because they're insecure—and I'm just a vessel.

 

But I was certainly intrigued by her right away, showed that by continuing to see her, getting to know her, revealing myself to her, and of course by eventually committing to her, falling in love, and all that. Oddly, the more we became a thing the more insecure she seemed to feel, or at least more comfortable in showing it.

 

What your ex said to you, about wishing you loved yourself? I had that thought constantly, probably voiced it in my own way. Lord knows she voiced her self-hatred plenty, directly and indirectly. Had it come out earlier, I would have walked away—too damaged. Coming out once I was attached—I tried my best to soothe, comfort, whatever.

 

And here's the problem with that: if you rely on someone else to soothe your insecurities (though love, through sex, through whatever) you will come to hate them—to resent them—when you still feel insecure. Self-hatred projected outward, onto another. Same thing they say about drug addicts: the addict always comes to hate the drug, and with reason. The power of the drug affirms their inner powerlessness.

 

And that's more or less what happened with us, those sorts of resentments, which came to the surface after 2.5 years. No need to get into it all. I certainly wasn't a prince, and will take responsibility for plenty, including the fact that something was up in me (my own insecurities) to overlook plenty. Still, I have no resentment toward her, and in the end she came to cheat on me with several people. Her insecurities and sabotaging instincts run amok, not a verdict on me. See? I'm secure enough to understand that, came into the relationship with that security intact, and left to preserve it.

 

I don't share all that as some dark road map of where you're going—not in life, and certainly not with this new dude. I'm just saying that the part of me that wants to tell you to relax and go with this—well, that's what I wish I or someone could have told her, early and throughout. But that wasn't possible, not with the way she approached things.

 

Somewhere back in your mind you know you're amazing. Great. Work, on your own, toward getting that to be more in the front of your mind, where it belongs. And I know it's hard for women out there—a lot of pressure on looks, on being pretty enough—but please know that "pretty" is just surface nonsense. It's not where real value comes from, not what keeps people around.

[Batya33]

What do you mean by the above? As in he won't make a great boyfriend?

 

I have also had casual sex before, but with guys I purely did not have feelings for nor wanted a relationship with. I still felt kind of bad after that happened but shrugged them off easier than this time. I do want sex but don't really like the idea of casual sex too much...

 

You need to get clear with yourself on your values, standards and boundaries and yes if you have a private date with him in his home or yours you're showing him that you're fine with casual sex again. Obviously you can say no (!) I'm talking about the impression you are giving.

 

Yes, if a person sees himself or herself as "hot" because of physical features and focuses on that I do not see that person being a healthy or good partner to another person unless the other person feels the same about physical features and their importance.

[bluecastle]

Yes, if a person sees himself or herself as "hot" because of physical features and focuses on that I do not see that person being a healthy or good partner to another person unless the other person feels the same about physical features and their importance.

 

Reminds me of that scene in Annie Hall where he goes up to the very pretty couple, asks how they make it work. She says something like, “I’m very shallow and empty and have nothing interesting to say.” And her bf says, “And I’m exactly the same.”

[Batya33]

Reminds me of that scene in Annie Hall where he goes up to the very pretty couple, asks how they make it work. She says something like, “I’m very shallow and empty and have nothing interesting to say.” And her bf says, “And I’m exactly the same.”

 

Yes!! Love that movie.

[blueowl32]

I would say a lot of things ended that relationship, including plenty of my own behavior. But I'll share a bit of the story in hopes it helps you.

 

The resentments: She had it in her head, like deep, that I was never really into her. I'd say that was her headspace before I walked in the door on date one, and certainly after we first slept together. I think she looked at me in bed and thought: no way is he into me. After the first time, after the 100th. I suspect—but didn't know this at the time—that that's how she's felt about most men she's interested in, before me and since.

 

And you know what? In the beginning there was some truth to that, as there should be. I'm not going to drift off to the moon after a weekend of hot sex or a weekend of deep conversations. Not with her, not with a model, not with a movie star. Nor do I expect someone to be really into me after any of that; in fact, I find it insincere if they are. It means they're really into the idea of being really into someone—probably because they're insecure—and I'm just a vessel.

 

But I was certainly intrigued by her right away, showed that by continuing to see her, getting to know her, revealing myself to her, and of course by eventually committing to her, falling in love, and all that. Oddly, the more we became a thing the more insecure she seemed to feel, or at least more comfortable in showing it.

 

What your ex said to you, about wishing you loved yourself? I had that thought constantly, probably voiced it in my own way. Lord knows she voiced her self-hatred plenty, directly and indirectly. Had it come out earlier, I would have walked away—too damaged. Coming out once I was attached—I tried my best to soothe, comfort, whatever.

 

And here's the problem with that: if you rely on someone else to soothe your insecurities (though love, through sex, through whatever) you will come to hate them—to resent them—when you still feel insecure. Self-hatred projected outward, onto another. Same thing they say about drug addicts: the addict always comes to hate the drug, and with reason. The power of the drug affirms their inner powerlessness.

 

And that's more or less what happened with us, those sorts of resentments, which came to the surface after 2.5 years. No need to get into it all. I certainly wasn't a prince, and will take responsibility for plenty, including the fact that something was up in me (my own insecurities) to overlook plenty. Still, I have no resentment toward her, and in the end she came to cheat on me with several people. Her insecurities and sabotaging instincts run amok, not a verdict on me. See? I'm secure enough to understand that, came into the relationship with that security intact, and left to preserve it.

 

I don't share all that as some dark road map of where you're going—not in life, and certainly not with this new dude. I'm just saying that the part of me that wants to tell you to relax and go with this—well, that's what I wish I or someone could have told her, early and throughout. But that wasn't possible, not with the way she approached things.

 

Somewhere back in your mind you know you're amazing. Great. Work, on your own, toward getting that to be more in the front of your mind, where it belongs. And I know it's hard for women out there—a lot of pressure on looks, on being pretty enough—but please know that "pretty" is just surface nonsense. It's not where real value comes from, not what keeps people around.

 

This is totally relatable and mirrored my own experience. He kept telling me he was into me but I never believed him. Thanks for sharing.

What a shame and pity that she didn't realise how amazing she was/ that you genuinely thought so.

[blueowl32]

You need to get clear with yourself on your values, standards and boundaries and yes if you have a private date with him in his home or yours you're showing him that you're fine with casual sex again. Obviously you can say no (!) I'm talking about the impression you are giving.

 

Yes, if a person sees himself or herself as "hot" because of physical features and focuses on that I do not see that person being a healthy or good partner to another person unless the other person feels the same about physical features and their importance.

 

I actually would really like to have sex with him again soon, I am liking him more and more and rather attracted.

Having said that I don't wanna ruin the potential of a relationship and then beat myself up and feel bad afterwards..

[SherrySher]

You don't want to keep giving the impression that you're a fling or a booty call.

 

You want to at least go on dates where it doesn't end up in bed, I mean, is that possible for you?

[Batya33]

I actually would really like to have sex with him again soon, I am liking him more and more and rather attracted.

Having said that I don't wanna ruin the potential of a relationship and then beat myself up and feel bad afterwards..

 

So here's the thing - do a risk/benefit analysis just like you would with ice cream at a time when you were trying to watch your weight or health. Does the short term orgasm/pleasure/acting out attraction by having sex mean more to you than the regrets/stress/anxiety you will feel after having casual sex? It's totally fine if you choose sex. If you do then yes you're risking the long term - and I am writing that because of your reaction and your mindset. I am not saying generally that casual sex will ruin the potential.

 

There's a lot to be said for being affectionate, physical, sexual and holding off on casual sexual intercourse. Here's an anecdote. When my husband and I got back together after 8 years apart (dating previously, not married previously) he bought me a gorgeous heart pendant on a chain for my birthday. It was our first real date. I asked him to put it on for me -honestly because the clasp was too hard for me to manage. I really thought that after since he was standing so close to me that he'd kiss me- would have been our first "real" kiss after getting back together. He didn't. We did kiss later that night.

 

I asked him later -why didn't you kiss me then and he said "I wanted to but I didn't want you to think that I was taking advantage of putting on your necklace as an excuse to kiss you" (not verbatim but something like that).

 

What the heck is wrong with feeling attraction and liking someone and choosing to wait to have sexual intercourse until your heart and mind are ready in addition to your body and hormones? Don't you ever make yourself wait to have cake or ice cream or nutella??

[SherrySher]

Yes, there is a rhyme and reason to it. Anticipation, the build up, creating a strong connection without sex.

 

All of those things are vital. If you just hand someone everything straight away it will become boring quite quickly.

[bluecastle]

So here's the thing - do a risk/benefit analysis just like you would with ice cream at a time when you were trying to watch your weight or health. Does the short term orgasm/pleasure/acting out attraction by having sex mean more to you than the regrets/stress/anxiety you will feel after having casual sex? It's totally fine if you choose sex. If you do then yes you're risking the long term - and I am writing that because of your reaction and your mindset. I am not saying generally that casual sex will ruin the potential.

 

I hope this resonates, OP.

 

You've had sex with this man once, and it sent you into some spins. You're now feeling the desire for more sex, but already preemptively spinning, a bit, about whether that will ruin the chances for something deeper and/or trigger another wave of self-loathing.

 

To me, that would be enough to know that it's time to tap the brakes a bit. To me, that would at least be a moment to reflect on why, exactly, you're wanting sex again.

 

Is it to make these jittery thoughts and feelings go away? Is it to make sure this guy stays interested in you, since you're enjoying his texts? I'd be curious to hear your answers.

 

As mentioned, I have zero hard rules personally about this sort of thing, just as I have no rules about when I eat ice cream. Save one: I do both when it feels right. And my internal compass is well-tuned in that regard, so whether I'm eating ice cream for breakfast or engaging in a one night stand I know I won't feel icky afterward.

[Batya33]

I hope this resonates, OP.

 

You've had sex with this man once, and it sent you into some spins. You're now feeling the desire for more sex, but already preemptively spinning, a bit, about whether that will ruin the chances for something deeper and/or trigger another wave of self-loathing.

 

To me, that would be enough to know that it's time to tap the brakes a bit. To me, that would at least be a moment to reflect on why, exactly, you're wanting sex again.

 

Is it to make these jittery thoughts and feelings go away? Is it to make sure this guy stays interested in you, since you're enjoying his texts? I'd be curious to hear your answers.

 

As mentioned, I have zero hard rules personally about this sort of thing, just as I have no rules about when I eat ice cream. Save one: I do both when it feels right. And my internal compass is well-tuned in that regard, so whether I'm eating ice cream for breakfast or engaging in a one night stand I know I won't feel icky afterward.

 

i don't think "when it feels right" should be the standard unless it's a combination of head and heart/desire. If I went with "feels right" I'd be overweight and/or unhealthy as far as eating habits. I think rules/structure have an important place for many people and since the OP seems to think that "well if I feel like having sex with him I won't resist the temptation" but on the other hand had a really bad reaction to her choice to have casual sex with a near stranger, she might want to think about some discipline/rules/restraint.

[bluecastle]

Totally agree, Batya.

 

To be clearer, "feels right," for me, is very much within certain rules, guided by a head/heart/desire balance. Ditto, for that matter, ice cream. So perhaps "feels healthy" is better. In my case, there's a lot of flexibility to that. Whether I'm eating steak and chocolate pie or a kale salad, it's because it feels like the healthy thing to do; generally I eat a lot more kale than I do steak, because, well, that's just what feels right/healthy to me. But I never make a conscious choice to diet.

 

My sexual choices, and attitude about sex, follow a similar process. I generally don't do a lot of things I regret because I can generally see the regret beforehand.

 

Which leads me back to you, OP, and the questions I asked. I can't quite help but wonder why you're still thinking about sex again when the last time triggered the spins. Is it because you think it's what he wants? What is required, now that you've done it, to keep him around?

 

If it's anything close to that I'd encourage you to step back.

[j.man]

I actually would really like to have sex with him again soon, I am liking him more and more and rather attracted.

Having said that I don't wanna ruin the potential of a relationship and then beat myself up and feel bad afterwards..

You aren't going to ruin any potential just having sex-- unless the guy has misogynistic double standards, in which case good riddance. You'll likely ruin any "potential" once you're unable to continue bottling up your insecurities after sex.

 

Any way you look at it, it sounds like you're the type who needs to hold off on having sex, or even dating in general right now.

[Batya33]

You aren't going to ruin any potential just having sex-- unless the guy has misogynistic double standards, in which case good riddance. You'll likely ruin any "potential" once you're unable to continue bottling up your insecurities after sex.

 

Any way you look at it, it sounds like you're the type who needs to hold off on having sex, or even dating in general right now.

 

No misogyny- here the problem is - like many women do -she lied to herself that she was ok with casual with this guy - and she wasn't, she regrets it - so that doesn't make the best first impression and first impressions count a lot in fragile beginnings IMO. So i agree with you that it doesn't need to ruin anything (although it increases the risk of too much too soon, of an accidental pregnancy too early on, etc) but in her case it could because of her reaction.

[blueowl32]

So we agreed to a saturday date but he asked me out Friday night again and I was able to make it.. (he's been asking every other day for this week)

He was still expecting to see me again on Saturday and wants to. Would this be too much (seeing each other two consecutive days) and not good for building anticipation?

 

I originally promised Saturday though so if I cancel out it would be bit flakey? Also he sounded he was really looking forward to it during our Friday date.

[Batya33]

So we agreed to a saturday date but he asked me out Friday night again and I was able to make it.. (he's been asking every other day for this week)

He was still expecting to see me again on Saturday and wants to. Would this be too much (seeing each other two consecutive days) and not good for building anticipation?

 

I originally promised Saturday though so if I cancel out it would be bit flakey? Also he sounded he was really looking forward to it during our Friday date.

 

I think it's fine if you go on public dates and stay sober.

[reinventmyself]

 

Any way you look at it, it sounds like you're the type who needs to hold off on having sex, or even dating in general right now.

 

and if my memory serves me well, this has been advised more times than I can count over the course of several other threads.

[Wiseman2]

No matter what your anxieties or difficulties are or whatever therapy that is going on, it doesn't give you a license to be rude and mean to people.

He was still expecting to see me again on Saturday and wants to. I originally promised Saturday though so if I cancel out it would be bit flakey? Also he sounded he was really looking forward to it during our Friday date.

[blueowl32]

We went on two dates and the weekend meet up didn’t manifest. We were going to go out weekend but he didn’t confirm time so I cancelled saying I made other plans but later I did say we could still meet afternoon. He then said he already made afternoon plans and asked if I wanted dinner but I couldn’t make it.

 

It was going really strong after second dates.

 

I hope I didn’t ruin it?

[Batya33]

When was he supposed to confirm the time by? Did you tell him if you didn't hear from him you'd make other plans?

 

I am not going to talk in terms of "ruin" - I think you are acting in a flaky and unreliable way unless there's information I'm missing (meaning if he knew he needed to let you know the time by a certain time or you'd make other plans). I also if I were you would have made it to dinner if you possibly could -meaning not cancel on an important one on one plan but I would have strongly considered. Your actions are not consistent with wanting to get to know him or making a good impression.

[nutbrownhare]

From the way you describe it here, it sounds as though you're playing games with him. Sure, there are times when other plans get in the way, but there are ways round this, no matter how busy you are.

not good for building anticipation?

Where did you get this rubbish from? If someone wants to see you, and you want to see them, and you both have full lives and are not clinging together for dear life, there's nothing wrong with seeing a new(ish) date on consecutive days. If you play games, and keep up this calculating, distancing behaviour, you're going to scare off a quality guy. If you play games, you get game players - and that will do your confidence and self esteem no good whatsoever.

 

The message that you're giving him is that either you're not interested, or you're very high maintenance; you need to change this impression as soon as possible. If you can't make one particular date and time, then state an alternative one immediately - don't leave it until later. If he hasn't confirmed a time, then ask when would suit him. If he doesn't respond at all, THEN make other plans - but stop playing hard to get, and then feeling upset when he doesn't keep running after you.

[Wiseman2]

Are you not over your last relationship or just not that into him? It that what you want? It sounds like you're trying to ruin it.

We were going to go out weekend but he didn’t confirm time so I cancelled saying I made other plans but later I did say we could still meet afternoon. He then said he already made afternoon plans and asked if I wanted dinner but I couldn’t make it.

I hope I didn’t ruin it?