Misreading physical intimacy and emotional intimacy

[figureitout23]

LMAO, sad thing is I don’t even remember what it was.

[maew]

There was fantastic conversational chemistry which led to physical chemistry. It just felt right honestly. In the future, how do you find a balance between getting to know the person and physical expression?

 

It's about knowing yourself, knowing what you want, and not letting your emotions control your actions. It sounds like you got carried away with the chemistry and excitement and didn't slow down long enough to really observe her or her actions towards you.

 

Case in point... if you ask her if she missed you, and she doesn't say anything, pay attention to that. If she seems shut down and doesn't want to reveal much about herself, pay attention to that. It doesn't mean she isn't into you but it does mean she probably things you are pushing her too hard or going too fast.

 

Finding balance means not getting carried away by your emotions... focusing on the rest of your life while getting to know her slowly... paying attention to her actions... and taking things slowly instead of trying to accelerate the process.

[figureitout23]

It's about knowing yourself, knowing what you want, and not letting your emotions control your actions. It sounds like you got carried away with the chemistry and excitement and didn't slow down long enough to really observe her or her actions towards you.

 

Case in point... if you ask her if she missed you, and she doesn't say anything, pay attention to that. If she seems shut down and doesn't want to reveal much about herself, pay attention to that. It doesn't mean she isn't into you but it does mean she probably things you are pushing her too hard or going too fast.

 

Finding balance means not getting carried away by your emotions... focusing on the rest of your life while getting to know her slowly... paying attention to her actions... and taking things slowly instead of trying to accelerate the process.

 

I completely agree with this, find your balance, but I honestly don’t think you did anything wrong when it comes to timing in the grand scheme of things,’I think asking out of fear was bad but that’s neither here nor there now.

 

What you can do in the future to combat these feelings are clarify what you want and what you’re looking for early on.

 

I’ve been you, veep, many have. there’s nothing wrong with being excited about someone you’re dating, there’s nothing wrong with wanting to date them, the only issue is she apparently wasn’t on the same page.

 

How did your final convo go? Why do you think you’re second guessing yourself, do you think maybe there was a misunderstanding?

[bluecastle]

Sorry this whole thing has got you in the spins.

 

I agree with the others about postponing sex a bit longer, even when that lust is stirring because everything else feels so "perfect." Indeed, I'd postpone sex until you accept the truth, which is that no one is perfect, and that relationships are not a perfect bubble that life's imperfections can't burst. Dating and relationships—and, hey, sex itself—are really a celebration of human imperfection, and exploring whether your imperfections and another's dovetail. Figuring that out takes real time, whether your clothes are on or not, and some of us are never so blind as we are when we're naked.

 

That might be a big lesson here—and a place where you can simply be vulnerable in a genuine way, by moving a little slower, being your authentic self, rather than vulnerability becoming some kind of performance and test in the wake of sex—an act you seem to equate, or have with this woman, as a kind of mutual celebration/sealing-in of perfection. Sex put you in acceleration mode.

 

That's not a judgement or a criticism. Everyone reacts to sex differently, and for many it can be an illusory accelerant. But relationships, especially early, are really about that "exploratory mission" that DancingFool describes. For some sex can be part of that mission—just another way of feeling things out. I'd put myself in that camp. For others it can kind of give the impression that that mission is over, when in fact it's really just begun.

 

Let's say, for instance, there had just been some hot making out and heavy petting (along with that conversational chemistry) when you saw the Bumble screen on her phone. You would have been thrown, yeah, but maybe not as much. You could have had a lighter check-in, one that was more of a continuation of your connection—that conversational chemistry—than a sudden dialing up on the serious knob because you felt exposed, jilted. You would have maybe been curious instead of twitchy, concerned but still properly armored to be able to handle the blow with elegance.

 

And, yeah, maybe that would have been the end of things, because you would have learned that she wasn't in the same place as you, but with less spinning post-fact. Or maybe it would have been a reality check on the "perfect" narrative that was starting to unfold in your imagination, and you could then move a bit slower, more cautiously, having time to really process your feelings without them being so enflamed. You could have also been able to listen to her, without hearing what she said as a threat or verdict.

 

Exploration, in short. Information rather than assumptions.

 

Forgive me if this sounds harsh, but I can't help but feel that underneath this is a frustration at not being able to control another person's feelings, which is to say accepting the universal fact that sometimes someone isn't feeling what we are. It sucks, I know. Been there. Then again, I operate from the general POV that it's impossible for two people to feel the exact same thing, and that no amount of early chemistry, intellectual or physical, alters that.

 

When to have talk x, physical act y, how to strike the physical/emotional balance—there is no recipe for sure success, no series of chess moves that makes "perfect" sustainable. You do what feels right and true for you, always knowing that the other person may not feel the same. When they don't, you accept that. No need to go to instant replay and worry about what play you called at which down that put you on the losing side. It's not a game, just life, and we navigate it by continuing to get to know ourselves better.

 

Again, I'm sorry for your hurt. You did nothin wrong, just met a woman in a different place in life than you are, with a disposition at odds with yours.

[dmveep]

I completely agree with this, find your balance, but I honestly don’t think you did anything wrong when it comes to timing in the grand scheme of things,’I think asking out of fear was bad but that’s neither here nor there now.

 

What you can do in the future to combat these feelings are clarify what you want and what you’re looking for early on.

 

I’ve been you, veep, many have. there’s nothing wrong with being excited about someone you’re dating, there’s nothing wrong with wanting to date them, the only issue is she apparently wasn’t on the same page.

 

How did your final convo go? Why do you think you’re second guessing yourself, do you think maybe there was a misunderstanding?

 

I think all of my difficulties surrounding this situation stem from her lack of clear communication. I feel like she was in the “I don’t know what I want camp” and she didn’t realize that she didn’t want a relationship until she was pitched an opportunity for intimacy. Her “break up” was still very confusing saying something along the lines of me wanting a relationship and her feeling like she couldn’t provide what I want.

 

I don’t like ambiguity. If you start dating someone and there is ambiguity, it causes problems. As several have said, I got swept up in how perfect the situation felt and perhaps in my mind I didn’t want anything to disrupt that. In hindsight, instead of having sex, that third date should have included a discussion about our dating goals. I may have still seen her for fun but at least I would know to limit any sense of intimacy.

 

The bottom line is that there was a lack of communication about where each of us was coming from and what each of us wanted. She probably did have some feelings for me and was having fun but perhaps had some things to get over before she can move forward.

[dmveep]

 

Talking briefly about your previous relationships, last one and when it ended. Again, not a deep emotional conversation, but just feeling things out. When, what happened that they broke up and then you listen carefully to what they say. Yes, it may lead to a long emotional response or an angry tirade about their abusive cheating ex - good reason to smile, nod, mumble something supportive and never schedule another date with them. You might even find out that they just broke up last week. Again - you just never know what you'll uncover and that will save you from a lot of grief and investing in a losing proposition. I've had guys put these kinds of questions in a very lighthearted, even kind of a complimentary manner - like "how did I get so lucky to find you single?"

 

Early on dates are really a mix of having fun, but also an exploratory mission. You can't just sit back and focus strictly on the fun parts. You also need to dedicate some time to some more important questions. Again, it's not what you ask but how. For example, I can't do an attached at the hip thing and need a guy who is pretty independent. I will absolutely explore that in those first few dates. It's not exactly a direct question like "so how much time do you need from me", but more learning if he has regular hobbies, friends he spends time with on a regular basis, his work and how much time that takes up, I might pay careful attention to how much he is contacting me or not, etc. It's not just talking, it's also paying attention that their words and actions are matching up.

 

We did have a quick convo on date 3 about our previous dating histories. She said she only had one long term relationship that had lasted 5 years and ended 5 years, but again, no basic discussion about what each other were seeking, so we are both guilty.

[Batya33]

I think all of my difficulties surrounding this situation stem from her lack of clear communication. I feel like she was in the “I don’t know what I want camp” and she didn’t realize that she didn’t want a relationship until she was pitched an opportunity for intimacy. Her “break up” was still very confusing saying something along the lines of me wanting a relationship and her feeling like she couldn’t provide what I want.

 

I don’t like ambiguity. If you start dating someone and there is ambiguity, it causes problems. As several have said, I got swept up in how perfect the situation felt and perhaps in my mind I didn’t want anything to disrupt that. In hindsight, instead of having sex, that third date should have included a discussion about our dating goals. I may have still seen her for fun but at least I would know to limit any sense of intimacy.

 

The bottom line is that there was a lack of communication about where each of us was coming from and what each of us wanted. She probably did have some feelings for me and was having fun but perhaps had some things to get over before she can move forward.

 

No, I don't buy it. She absolutely knew what she wanted. She wanted to go on dates with you and have sex with you on the third date. She wanted to go on all the dates she said yes to. I don't think she had some sudden realization that she didn't want anything long term - I don't think she realized anything at all other than each time she accepted a date she knew she wanted to go on the date. Of course she could provide what you wanted. She just chose not to. Many people have some jitters about getting involved for a myriad of reasons and if they're really into the person they choose the person over jitters.

 

I wouldn't overanalyze this -people move towards pleasure and away from pain - getting more seriously involved with you was not something she chose to do. She likely would have chosen to continue dating you and having sex with you. I don't think those 10 dollar words like "communication" and "provide what I want" need to be trotted out here. Simple case of two people wanting different things.

 

Yes, i agree to keep your feet on the ground next time even if your head is in the clouds with how "perfect" it seems. It probably was perfect - two people who didn't know each other well feeling intense sexual attraction and acting on it. You simply chose to react to those feelings by assuming potential for a serious relationship that would be "perfect" and I think you jumped the gun a bit.

[bluecastle]

No, I don't buy it. She absolutely knew what she wanted. She wanted to go on dates with you and have sex with you on the third date. She wanted to go on all the dates she said yes to. I don't think she had some sudden realization that she didn't want anything long term - I don't think she realized anything at all other than each time she accepted a date she knew she wanted to go on the date. Of course she could provide what you wanted. She just chose not to. Many people have some jitters about getting involved for a myriad of reasons and if they're really into the person they choose the person over jitters.

 

I wouldn't overanalyze this -people move towards pleasure and away from pain - getting more seriously involved with you was not something she chose to do. She likely would have chosen to continue dating you and having sex with you. I don't think those 10 dollar words like "communication" and "provide what I want" need to be trotted out here. Simple case of two people wanting different things.

 

Yes, i agree to keep your feet on the ground next time even if your head is in the clouds with how "perfect" it seems. It probably was perfect - two people who didn't know each other well feeling intense sexual attraction and acting on it. You simply chose to react to those feelings by assuming potential for a serious relationship that would be "perfect" and I think you jumped the gun a bit.

 

My thoughts exactly. She was having a good time, feeling it out, enjoying sex and fledgling companionship. She was, in other words, dating. She was also still on Bumble, and who knows why? Habit, curiosity, keeping a little pixilated toe in single life, maybe going on another date or two.

 

Your reaction to that—which was totally fine, because it was your truth—threw her. The fun, exploratory thing changed shape. It got heavy and serious on a dime. She didn't much like that, because that's not quite where she was. For her, I think, she felt like she was too quickly going from being a woman you were getting to know to "your woman."

 

Aside from not rushing into the sheets, I'd suggest, in the future, that you make it clear you don't want to multi-date. A good friend of mine, for instance, was caught off guard when her now bf mentioned after two dates that he didn't want to continue dating if she was dating others. They hadn't had sex, were just getting to know each other. But that was his boundary, which he presented with zero judgment or emotion. He simply liked getting to know one person at a time, and wanted that shared. My friend is of a completely different nature—a multi-dater, a multi sexual partner person when single—but she was very captivated by him and easily agreed to just feel it out with him and him alone—a boundary talk, see, not a heavy "exclusive" talk. A year later they're about to move in together.

[Honeycomb8]

I think multi dating is fine but having sex with more than one person is gross lol.

[Batya33]

I think multi dating is fine but having sex with more than one person is gross lol.

 

I agree and I think "multidating" is repetitive -it's dating. If you want to be exclusive and not date others or look to date others you talk about it. Otherwise assume you are dating someone who might be dating others or looking to date others.

[boltnrun]

I don't think you did anything wrong. She just doesn't feel the same way you do. Nothing you do will change that. It's no reflection on you, she just isn't the right woman for you.

[abitbroken]

to me, after 15 dates, you have a good sense if the other person is seeing other people or not. The key is looking for other clues. Did she introduce you to a friend? A family member? If after 12-15 dates you have not been introduced to a friend of some sort, especially since it was just the summer - prime time to cross paths with friends while out and about, then i wouldn't ask her to be your girlfriend.

[DancingFool]

I think all of my difficulties surrounding this situation stem from her lack of clear communication. I feel like she was in the “I don’t know what I want camp” and she didn’t realize that she didn’t want a relationship until she was pitched an opportunity for intimacy. Her “break up” was still very confusing saying something along the lines of me wanting a relationship and her feeling like she couldn’t provide what I want.

 

I don’t like ambiguity. If you start dating someone and there is ambiguity, it causes problems. As several have said, I got swept up in how perfect the situation felt and perhaps in my mind I didn’t want anything to disrupt that. In hindsight, instead of having sex, that third date should have included a discussion about our dating goals. I may have still seen her for fun but at least I would know to limit any sense of intimacy.

 

The bottom line is that there was a lack of communication about where each of us was coming from and what each of us wanted. She probably did have some feelings for me and was having fun but perhaps had some things to get over before she can move forward.

 

This is where I'm struggling a bit to understand your perspective. You say that in bold above is ambiguous. How? She is being very clear with you that she is not looking for a serious relationship, not looking to get involved, doesn't want what you want and won't want it. Can't be more clear if she tried. There is a lot of denial of that going on in your mind. A refusal to accept her words at face value which is concerning. Don't become tone deaf just because you think you like her and don't get lost in your own head and imagination of what could be. Deal with what is and don't over complicate reality. You want an exclusive relationship, she doesn't. Game over. Walk away and keep seeking what you want with someone else.

[dmveep]

I think multi dating is fine but having sex with more than one person is gross lol.

 

Honestly, this was my biggest concern. I just don’t feel comfortable with someone I’m having sex with regularly pursuing other sexual partners simultaneously.

 

Perhaps more than seeking a “exclusive” arrangement, I wanted to establish a mutual understanding of where we were and some degree of boundaries. She told me she never slept with more than one person at a time but that really wasn’t very reassuring. She never stated she was not going to pursue any other sexual options. I was starting to have feelings for her and the thought of her seeing other people did bother me, who wouldn’t that bother?

 

Look, it wasn’t my intention by suggesting exclusivity to make things super serious. I was really just trying to establish some basic boundaries and I thought that seemed the easiest approach since we already established neither of us was seeing anyone else and we were seeing a lot of each other. It was really just a baby step in my mind. There was really no way for me predict her sensitivity to the discussion. At no point did she state anything along the lines of saying “I’m not quite ready for that but let’s keep seeing each other.” She wasn’t able to speak calmly or clearly about the matter which left me very confused and scratching my head.

 

I didn’t mean to make it a “serious” conversation, just not trying to get STDs and give what it seemed like it had potential by filtering out the noise(dating apps/other people). This wasn’t some sort of dichotomous choice I proposed.

 

Imagine you were me, I was very nervous about the convo, how would you feel/respond to someone who becomes defensive and starts dumping their baggage on you for merely suggesting exclusivity?

[dmveep]

to me, after 15 dates, you have a good sense if the other person is seeing other people or not. The key is looking for other clues. Did she introduce you to a friend? A family member? If after 12-15 dates you have not been introduced to a friend of some sort, especially since it was just the summer - prime time to cross paths with friends while out and about, then i wouldn't ask her to be your girlfriend.

 

She didn’t seem to be the most social person, seemed like a homebody/introvert, which was a concern for me as I am a very social person. This is partially why I invited her to hang out with my friends, to see if she could hang with the gang. She honestly never even mentioned hanging out with friends. She seemed to work a lot of hours too.

[dmveep]

This is where I'm struggling a bit to understand your perspective. You say that in bold above is ambiguous. How? She is being very clear with you that she is not looking for a serious relationship, not looking to get involved, doesn't want what you want and won't want it. Can't be more clear if she tried. There is a lot of denial of that going on in your mind. A refusal to accept her words at face value which is concerning. Don't become tone deaf just because you think you like her and don't get lost in your own head and imagination of what could be. Deal with what is and don't over complicate reality. You want an exclusive relationship, she doesn't. Game over. Walk away and keep seeking what you want with someone else.

 

I understand. Perhaps having the conversation made her realize that she wasn’t ready or wanting a relationship. It just really hurt that she agreed to be exclusive only to change her mind a few days later. I really think she was just over thinking the whole thing. I wanted to date someone who was willing to put both feet in and she wasn’t. Again, this situation wasn’t going to change any time soon, so it was best to get the cat out of the bag.

[DancingFool]

I understand. Perhaps having the conversation made her realize that she wasn’t ready or wanting a relationship. It just really hurt that she agreed to be exclusive only to change her mind a few days later. I really think she was just over thinking the whole thing. I wanted to date someone who was willing to put both feet in and she wasn’t. Again, this situation wasn’t going to change any time soon, so it was best to get the cat out of the bag.

 

The thing is that she didn't really agree, didn't want to agree and didn't mean it. She was being evasive and downright ridiculous with you claiming she doesn't know what exclusivity means. The problem again is that you were so fixated on getting what you want, you were in fact ignoring reality and her negative response. Not saying that what you did was wrong, what I'm getting at is that please try to pay more attention to how the person is responding in the future. Someone who wants what you want will be enthusiastic and there is really not much of a conversation there. They'll just agree, tell you they are happy and on the same page and on to other topics. You won't have to twist their arm, convince them, explain away, etc. The moment you have to start convincing......you already have your answer and that answer is NO. So do check yourself and walk away at that point.

[dmveep]

The thing is that she didn't really agree, didn't want to agree and didn't mean it. She was being evasive and downright ridiculous with you claiming she doesn't know what exclusivity means. The problem again is that you were so fixated on getting what you want, you were in fact ignoring reality and her negative response. Not saying that what you did was wrong, what I'm getting at is that please try to pay more attention to how the person is responding in the future. Someone who wants what you want will be enthusiastic and there is really not much of a conversation there. They'll just agree, tell you they are happy and on the same page and on to other topics. You won't have to twist their arm, convince them, explain away, etc. The moment you have to start convincing......you already have your answer and that answer is NO. So do check yourself and walk away at that point.

 

I agree you shouldn’t have to convince. I was expecting the warm reception I’ve had in the past. Basically I thought there was three possible outcomes: 1. Yes (which I was expecting 85%) 2. No/let’s go out separate ways/don’t see a future (10% chance) 3. Not quite ready but let’s keep seeing each other

 

Yes I agree I was fixated on the outcome, I just did t want an ambiguous outcome. I can live with yes, no, let’s give it more time but I can’t handle the ambiguous BS that spewed from her mouth.

 

You are right, I was ready to walk after that convo. It uncovered unexpected red flags, which were obviously deep and not going away anytime soon. I told my friend that and he said not to worry but I knew it was over at that point.

[DancingFool]

I agree you shouldn’t have to convince. I was expecting the warm reception I’ve had in the past. Basically I thought there was three possible outcomes: 1. Yes (which I was expecting 85%) 2. No/let’s go out separate ways/don’t see a future (10% chance) 3. Not quite ready but let’s keep seeing each other

 

Yes I agree I was fixated on the outcome, I just did t want an ambiguous outcome. I can live with yes, no, let’s give it more time but I can’t handle the ambiguous BS that spewed from her mouth.

 

You are right, I was ready to walk after that convo. It uncovered unexpected red flags, which were obviously deep and not going away anytime soon. I told my friend that and he said not to worry but I knew it was over at that point.

 

The trouble is that very few people out there have the proverbial balls to be so blunt and to spell it out for you quite so directly. However, that was really her response to you, just more muted. Again, she wasn't really being ambiguous with you. She simply caved temporarily to your persistence on getting a "yes" and then did exactly what you are saying you would accept - sorry not interested, let's go our separate ways. She actually did go to 2 and there is no ambiguity in that at all. You were so sure of a yes, seems like the no really threw you hard. It happens. It's OK.

[dmveep]

The trouble is that very few people out there have the proverbial balls to be so blunt and to spell it out for you quite so directly. However, that was really her response to you, just more muted. Again, she wasn't really being ambiguous with you. She simply caved temporarily to your persistence on getting a "yes" and then did exactly what you are saying you would accept - sorry not interested, let's go our separate ways. She actually did go to 2 and there is no ambiguity in that at all. You were so sure of a yes, seems like the no really threw you hard. It happens. It's OK.

 

I just feel so stupid, like I blew it :(

 

At the same time, I knew I would feel very uncomfortable knowing that she could be potentially taking other dates or having sex with other people. Is this a normal way to feel after feeling like you’ve opened yourself up to a person and had feelings for them? Do you think it would have been possible to ask for sexual exclusivity?

 

I guess I don’t know how things could have went forward. How would you handle a “I’m not ready but want to see you still?” It just feels like that would have been a big step back. Having zero boundaries, at least about sex, would not have been ok with me.

[Batya33]

I just feel so stupid, like I blew it :(

 

At the same time, I knew I would feel very uncomfortable knowing that she could be potentially taking other dates or having sex with other people. Is this a normal way to feel after feeling like you’ve opened yourself up to a person and had feelings for them? Do you think it would have been possible to ask for sexual exclusivity?

 

I guess I don’t know how things could have went forward. How would you handle a “I’m not ready but want to see you still?” It just feels like that would have been a big step back. Having zero boundaries, at least about sex, would not have been ok with me.

 

I've said that to men (but we weren't yet having sex). And then I was ready later on. Many people talk about marriage for example and one person is ready and the other is not yet ready and they don't break up.

[DancingFool]

I just feel so stupid, like I blew it :(

 

At the same time, I knew I would feel very uncomfortable knowing that she could be potentially taking other dates or having sex with other people. Is this a normal way to feel after feeling like you’ve opened yourself up to a person and had feelings for them? Do you think it would have been possible to ask for sexual exclusivity?

 

I guess I don’t know how things could have went forward. How would you handle a “I’m not ready but want to see you still?” It just feels like that would have been a big step back. Having zero boundaries, at least about sex, would not have been ok with me.

 

It's normal to feel upset when you've been rejected. Especially so when you believed that you both were on the same page. However, it's very toxic and self harming to guilt trip yourself and spin a story to yourself that if only you'd have done something different, you could have manipulated the outcome in your favor. So don't do that.

 

You absolutely should have boundaries and standards and discuss them and that's why people keep telling you that you didn't do anything wrong. Most people are on the same page when it comes to exclusivity, but you are bound to run into people who aren't at some point and you do have to be prepared for that. This is really purely about learning how to accept rejection a little easier. Discussing values, dating goals a little earlier. Spending more time on the getting to know them and staying out of your head a little more early on or trying to. I know when you meet someone you click with it's easier said than done. The whole pink goggles thing. However, try to stay more grounded at first.