Does she like me? Another second date confusion...

[Careerchoice]

That would have bugged me out.

 

 

 

I couldn't agree with this more!

 

I'm glad you have another date. I hope you stay firmly rooted in reality and don't go off on another one of these fearful masculinity flights. I don't know why you are so concerned about being masculine. You're a man. You are masculine. You are perfectly fine as you are.

 

Because he's had difficulty escalating with girls in the recent past. He's right to keep and eye on it.

[Jibralta]

It's really weird when anyone tries to be something other than who they are. People can see that a mile away. Best to be yourself.

[Careerchoice]

It's really weird when anyone tries to be something other than who they are. People can see that a mile away. Best to be yourself.

 

I have no idea what this is referring to.

[Jibralta]

I have no idea what this is referring to.

 

Him trying to be 'more' masculine.

 

Acting just isn't attractive.

 

And what if it does work? He tricks a girl into thinking he's some way that he naturally isn't? Then he has to keep the ruse up for the rest of the relationship.

 

The date was going pretty well until he became preoccupied with overcompensating. His insecurity caused him to rush, instead of letting the girl set the pace for physical contact. Fortunately, the date went well before this blunder, and it seems this girl is able to see past his insecurity to part of him that she really likes.

[Careerchoice]

Him trying to be 'more' masculine.

 

By trying to escalate things physically? That's our duty as men.

 

Acting just isn't attractive.

 

I wasn't so aggressive physically, I started with a light touch and progressed through the evening so I thought a kiss would be appropriate ending of things. Not for the sake of it, I really wanted to do it.

 

Except he wasn't acting.

 

And what if it does work? He tricks a girl into thinking he's some way that he naturally isn't? Then he has to keep the ruse up for the rest of the relationship.

 

I don't want to deceive anyone.

 

By escalating things physically? There's no indication that he's trying to deceive anyone.

 

The date was going pretty well until he became preoccupied with overcompensating. His insecurity caused him to rush, instead of letting the girl set the pace for physical contact. Fortunately, the date went well before this blunder, and it seems this girl is able to see past his insecurity to part of him that she really likes.

 

From my experience, girls expect the guy to lead the pace for physical contact. I used to not do it and most times things would go nowhere. I started doing it a few months ago and I've been having much more success with women. Allowing the girl to lead physically is a mistake because she just won't escalate on her own.

[SweetGirl28]

 

 

 

From my experience, girls expect the guy to lead the pace for physical contact. I used to not do it and most times things would go nowhere. I started doing it a few months ago and I've been having much more success with women. Allowing the girl to lead physically is a mistake because she just won't escalate on her own.

 

Ahem...umm....some of us initiate :) When you guys send out signals, we can start something!

[Careerchoice]

Ahem...umm....some of us initiate :) When you guys send out signals, we can start something!

 

Oh, I am a feminist in many respects, and women are more than welcome to initiate or escalate things physically as much as you want. But from my experience, it doesn't happen very often. I consider it a gift when it happens. But until it starts happening with more consistency, I, as a man, accept the burden of initiating and escalating. Many women, certainly the majority, expect this of us.

[SweetGirl28]

Oh, I am a feminist in many respects, and women are more than welcome to initiate or escalate things physically as much as you want. But from my experience, it doesn't happen very often. I consider it a gift when it happens. But until it starts happening with more consistency, I, as a man, accept the burden of initiating and escalating. Many women, certainly the majority, expect this of us.

 

You're right :) I'm just a very hands- on touchy person, I love affection and give it without putting thought

into it, if the attraction is there. I know some women friends of mine that are quite introverted and wouldn't

think of starting something, and others who love to tease but not touch in hopes of being chased.

I just don't like playing games, lol. If I like someone, they know it :)

[Careerchoice]

You're right :) I'm just a very hands- on touchy person, I love affection and give it without putting thought

into it, if the attraction is there. I know some women friends of mine that are quite introverted and wouldn't

think of starting something, and others who love to tease but not touch in hopes of being chased.

I just don't like playing games, lol. If I like someone, they know it :)

 

You are in the minority. Men have to plan for the majority.

[bbogdanov]

The date was going well till we started talking about beliefs. She told me confidently that the universe controls everything, we attract what we think about, people with their thoughts are responsible for the climate change and ozone layer depletion, everything around us is "energy", water has memory and so on. I respect others' opinions but that's just not my type of thinking, to say the least. The bigger problem is that she was very surprised that I haven't heard of all these theories (for me, they are just that), like I'm the most stupid person in the world, and that these things are 100% true, because everybody (according to her) knows about them and they are described in tons of books and movies (showing me some website about spiritual things). She also said that all of her friends believe in these things and she communicates almost exclusively with such people (she mostly picks out people based on that common belief so they share same interests, although she said she respects others' opinions). I tried to dig deeper into the topic and we talked about it for couple hours. But all that she could provide as evidence was that "everybody knows it", "there are a lot of books about it", all the things that happen to her confirm it etc.

[Careerchoice]

She also said that all of her friends believe in these things and she communicates almost exclusively with such people (she mostly picks out people based on that common belief so they share same interests, although she said she respects others' opinions).

 

She will make an exception for you if she likes you. If you still want her, don't be intimidated by this difference in opinion and don't back down from your beliefs.

 

This isn't that big of a deal, unless you are turned off by her. You don't have to agree on everything.

[bbogdanov]

I won't back down from my beliefs, of course : ) And we don't have to agree on everything, you are right. I will have to think about the situation because that conversation yesterday made me colder toward her, I was turned off to some degree, I guess... She apologized twice today. I told her that she doesn't need to and I don't feel offended. In the meantime I went on a date with another girl today, 8th one

[katrina1980]

I won't back down from my beliefs, of course : ) And we don't have to agree on everything, you are right. I will have to think about the situation because that conversation yesterday made me colder toward her, I was turned off to some degree, I guess... She apologized twice today. I told her that she doesn't need to and I don't feel offended. In the meantime I went on a date with another girl today, 8th one

 

I don't blame you for being turned off. Talking about the "universe," "climate change," how energy affects the "ozone layer," to each his own but what an attraction killer!

 

This was supposed to be a date, there should be flirting, playful banter, touching, kissing (ideally), not a science lesson for heaven's sake.

 

I do agree with Cc, when a woman leads you into a convo such as this, it's up to you to lead it "away" from that.

 

Save the serious discussions about the universe and climate change, etc for after you've been dating awhile or in a relationship.

 

That just sounded so boring and quite ridiculous in my opinion.

[figureitout23]

The date was going well till we started talking about beliefs. She told me confidently that the universe controls everything, we attract what we think about, people with their thoughts are responsible for the climate change and ozone layer depletion, everything around us is "energy", water has memory and so on. I respect others' opinions but that's just not my type of thinking, to say the least. The bigger problem is that she was very surprised that I haven't heard of all these theories (for me, they are just that), like I'm the most stupid person in the world, and that these things are 100% true, because everybody (according to her) knows about them and they are described in tons of books and movies (showing me some website about spiritual things). She also said that all of her friends believe in these things and she communicates almost exclusively with such people (she mostly picks out people based on that common belief so they share same interests, although she said she respects others' opinions). I tried to dig deeper into the topic and we talked about it for couple hours. But all that she could provide as evidence was that "everybody knows it", "there are a lot of books about it", all the things that happen to her confirm it etc.

 

I won't back down from my beliefs, of course : ) And we don't have to agree on everything, you are right. I will have to think about the situation because that conversation yesterday made me colder toward her, I was turned off to some degree, I guess... She apologized twice today. I told her that she doesn't need to and I don't feel offended. In the meantime I went on a date with another girl today, 8th one

 

You're doing it again BB, the second you feel a connection, the second you feel 'safe' and that you aren't on the defense and waiting to be dumped you begin to nitpick and find flaws.

 

You did this last time too, I'd search the archives but meh...

 

There's something going on with you. I'm sorry, I just find it hard to believe that someone who has this much trouble and stress dating, would constantly find something obscure to dislike the second she shows interest. You were full blown creeper mode with that whole kissing thing and she still gave you a second chance, you're going to blow her off because of her personal beliefs? You can't be serious.

 

You want them until they want you. You know the saying -

 

'I wouldn't want to be in any club that would accept me as a member.'

 

It seems to me you find comfort in rejection. It's just too much of a pattern.

 

I wholeheartedly disagree with most of what CC says but you two seem to get each other, I think you should follow his advice. PLEASE do not run away or sabotage things.

[bbogdanov]

I don't share your views, but I respect your opinion. I doubt I find comfort in rejection, I hate it and it hurts Believe me, I wish I had easier time dating but... Do I have to be grateful that she gave me a "second chance"? I don't think it's that way, I didn't do anything wrong. As for the beliefs - it just doesn't sound sane to me. That doesn't mean I am running away from her or trying to find flaws but it's something that makes me think about the situation. After all, I want to find a person whom I share some core beliefs with, right? I must have some requirements in my mind (they are not many) about my future partner. And the belief itself is not the thing that turned me off, but her trying to belittle me for not knowing and not believing these things. She apologized twice the day after, saying she'd been "rude", she'd gone too far etc. Bear in ming this girl hasn't had serious relatioship for the last 5 years. According to her she's been finding only "crazy" men for that time and the longest relationship was like 3 months...

[Juha]

No offense, but this woman sounds out there or not all there. LOL

[figureitout23]

I don't share your views, but I respect your opinion. I doubt I find comfort in rejection, I hate it and it hurts Believe me, I wish I had easier time dating but... Do I have to be grateful that she gave me a "second chance"? I don't think it's that way, I didn't do anything wrong. As for the beliefs - it just doesn't sound sane to me. That doesn't mean I am running away from her or trying to find flaws but it's something that makes me think about the situation. After all, I want to find a person whom I share some core beliefs with, right? I must have some requirements in my mind (they are not many) about my future partner. And the belief itself is not the thing that turned me off, but her trying to belittle me for not knowing and not believing these things. She apologized twice the day after, saying she'd been "rude", she'd gone too far etc. Bear in ming this girl hasn't had serious relatioship for the last 5 years. According to her she's been finding only "crazy" men for that time and the longest relationship was like 3 months...

 

I say this in the most respectful but brutally honest way -

 

Creeper kissy dude can't be aiming for the stars.

 

Practically every female responded here said you ruined things, she looked past it, only for you to look at her through a magnifying glass?!? So if you don't successfully chase her away, you dump her?

 

Didn't you describe the chick who you were so angry and upset about dumping you a few months ago as a spinster? Too old to be without a mate, something along those lines, yet you were practically head over heels over her... what's the difference here BB? Honest question, I want to say you were asked this last time and you couldn't answer. What was it about the first woman that kept you hanging on? What are these subsequent women who accept you missing?

 

I know it's hard to see and I know you don't want to believe you would ever sabotage yourself but I see the pattern clear as day.

 

I still think you should hold off on any decisions and wait for CC's advice.

[bbogdanov]

Please don't use such sentences as I don't get the meaning, english is not my native language (I'm talking about the last couple posts). Use simpler phrases if possible ("this woman sounds out there or not all there"; "Creeper kissy dude can't be aiming for the stars").

 

Why do you think I am looking at her through a magnifying glass? Her beliefs sounded very weird to me, to say the least. After all, I am dating to find a person which suits me. If I'm not ok with such things, I won't try to force myself to accept them. But that's not the exact case here, anyway. I am mostly disappointed by the way the info was provided - like I am some ignorant man for not knowing (and believing) it and that she only surrounds her with people of the same thinking (essentially saying that I probably doesn't have a place in her circle of people).

 

And who am I to dump her? She is not entitled to me and we are not in a relationship, I don't define this thing between us so I can't "dump" her.

 

I described the girl you talk about like that in order for you to try to understand her behaviour and way of thinking, not as an insult. I live in a conservative society and single people over 30 (especially women) have really hard time, they are under a lot of pressure from society and family so their thinking is more or less influenced. Having baggage from previous relationships makes things even harder. Saying all these things, I too am old to be without a mate. But I won't settle for something I can't accept (for whatever reason). I prefer being alone to being in a relationship just for the sake of it. And I was not head over heels over that girl, I liked her a lot, but you are exaggerating. I may have not understood your last question, but I'll try to answer it. I kept chasing her because that was the first girl I dated since ending my previous relationshiop. I'd been out of the game for a long time and I was stupid and naive to think that if I just persisted enough, she will open up and something can develop between us.

 

Now I am not making any decisions, so don't worry I am letting things proress naturally, I don't push and chase and I am calmer.

[Sportster2005]

If you like her, ask her out again. She'll yes, or no. Then you'll know.

 

She seems to have given you some encouragement. You have nothing to lose.

[Careerchoice]

Do I have to be grateful that she gave me a "second chance"? I don't think it's that way, I didn't do anything wrong.

 

You're right. You're not some pushy weirdo that some are trying to make you out to be on this thread. I'm sure most women have come across guys like that, but projecting it onto you is incorrect.

 

As for the beliefs - it just doesn't sound sane to me. That doesn't mean I am running away from her or trying to find flaws but it's something that makes me think about the situation. After all, I want to find a person whom I share some core beliefs with, right? I must have some requirements in my mind (they are not many) about my future partner. And the belief itself is not the thing that turned me off, but her trying to belittle me for not knowing and not believing these things. She apologized twice the day after, saying she'd been "rude", she'd gone too far etc. Bear in ming this girl hasn't had serious relatioship for the last 5 years. According to her she's been finding only "crazy" men for that time and the longest relationship was like 3 months...

 

All of this is right.

[Careerchoice]

Practically every female responded here said you ruined things, she looked past it, only for you to look at her through a magnifying glass?!? So if you don't successfully chase her away, you dump her?

 

I appreciate the shout out, and mean no personal offense against you or your gender (as I hold myself to be quite the feminist), but from my experience, women do not give effective dating advice to men. Most men also give bad dating advice. Only a select few know what they're doing.

 

I know it's hard to see and I know you don't want to believe you would ever sabotage yourself but I see the pattern clear as day.

 

This is not happening. Her views seem quite weird to me. I chatted online with a Russian girl living in New York a few weeks ago and she was telling me the same stuff. I did my best to move on from it, but it weirded me out too much. I have the right to be with who I want and deny who turns me off.

[Careerchoice]

I kept chasing her because that was the first girl I dated since ending my previous relationshiop. I'd been out of the game for a long time and I was stupid and naive to think that if I just persisted enough, she will open up and something can develop between us.

 

You view that situation too negatively. You had to go to that extreme so you know where the line is between persistence and giving up too quick. You learned a lot more from that than you realize.

 

I still think if you had more experience, you could have gotten her.

[bbogdanov]

You view that situation too negatively. You had to go to that extreme so you know where the line is between persistence and giving up too quick. You learned a lot more from that than you realize.

 

I still think if you had more experience, you could have gotten her.

 

You're right. I just tried to explain the situation : ) I don't regret doing it, every lesson is a valuable experience.

[figureitout23]

I appreciate the shout out, and mean no personal offense against you or your gender (as I hold myself to be quite the feminist), but from my experience, women do not give effective dating advice to men. Most men also give bad dating advice. Only a select few know what they're doing.

 

I doubt there's any concrete evidence of who gives the 'best' dating advice. Soooo sweeping statements aside, let's just agree to disagree, you two seem to get each other so yeah.

 

This is not happening. Her views seem quite weird to me. I chatted online with a Russian girl living in New York a few weeks ago and she was telling me the same stuff. I did my best to move on from it, but it weirded me out too much. I have the right to be with who I want and deny who turns me off.

 

The irony here for me is you both are like 'ah she's weird, it's a turn off, he's allowed to have standards.' (Which btw, I agree, my observation was not about standards but rather self sabotage) when the majority of his posts are about women rejecting him, and his frustration about it and you giving him advice on how he can stack the deck in his favor to get these women who don't like him to like him.

 

You both can see plain as day the idea of someone having standards and someone else not meeting them... its black and white... except when it comes to the women you date...

 

 

why can't these women he's dating come to the same conclusion he is? Why can't they think ' we have different life goals, he's not a good match.' Or ' our personalities clash, this won't work' why the pity party? Why the science project like advice to get these women. If they don't like him they don't like him, right? They have a right to as you say 'deny what turns them off' right? I guess I just see some contradiction, you can tweak all day but you can't/ shouldn't change/fake who you are, but alas, I think I should probably do as the others and tap out and let you two handle this.

 

I'm going to stand by my belief he is inadvertantly sabotaging himself though.

[Jibralta]

The irony here for me is you both are like 'ah she's weird, it's a turn off, he's allowed to have standards.' (Which btw, I agree, my observation was not about standards but rather self sabotage) when the majority of his posts are about women rejecting him, and his frustration about it and you giving him advice on how he can stack the deck in his favor to get these women who don't like him to like him.

 

Lololololol