Does she like me? Another second date confusion...

[Careerchoice]

The irony here for me is you both are like 'ah she's weird, it's a turn off, he's allowed to have standards.' (Which btw, I agree, my observation was not about standards but rather self sabotage) when the majority of his posts are about women rejecting him, and his frustration about it and you giving him advice on how he can stack the deck in his favor to get these women who don't like him to like him.

 

My advice is not about this. It's about getting him to learn how to date and to change his viewpoints. What you see as manipulation of women I see as education on a life skill. We will never agree on this, but it's irrelevant. My advice is exclusively for men as there is no product in getting females to agree with it.

 

You both can see plain as day the idea of someone having standards and someone else not meeting them... its black and white... except when it comes to the women you date...

 

I never said the women he dates can't judge him negatively or not like him. I'm telling you he's not acting correctly on dates and getting him to try to fix things. There's no hypocrisy on my end.

 

why can't these women he's dating come to the same conclusion he is? Why can't they think ' we have different life goals, he's not a good match.' Or ' our personalities clash, this won't work'

 

I agree that women can do all these things. I never said otherwise.

 

why the pity party?

 

Not occurring.

 

Why the science project like advice to get these women.

 

Because how to succeed with women is a science.

 

If they don't like him they don't like him, right?

 

No. If he's doing things incorrectly, they can be fixed and they will like him more. I can make this prediction, because I lived it.

 

They have a right to as you say 'deny what turns them off' right?

 

Of course. Never said otherwise.

 

I guess I just see some contradiction

 

I don't see what about.

 

you can tweak all day but you can't/ shouldn't change/fake who you are

 

I never said you should. I don't believe you should. I sucked at dating 6 months ago. I am a great date now. I learned how to date. I am no less "myself" now than I was 6 months ago. Just because I know how to ask for a girl's number, go in for the first kiss, deal with it when she starts talking about some other guy, get her to come to a motel room with me, etc., doesn't make me any less authentic than I used to me. I have learned. It's as simple as that.

 

I'm going to stand by my belief he is inadvertantly sabotaging himself though.

 

You're entitled to this belief. It's just incorrect.

[firelily]

Poor girl. First OP made her uncomfortable by kissing when she's a reserved person and she didn't give any sign she's ready for that (and gave one that she isn't ready), then let her know it's not OK that she didn't kiss him, that it upset him, then a while later she gets rejected for her actual personality. I wouldn't want to trade places with her.

 

I think, OP, it would be great if you spend a few dates actually getting the other person instead of focusing how to impress her/make the right action/fulfill some manly role. If after these first dates you get interested by someone's actual personality, their views on life, mannerisms etc., pursue that relationship romantically & physically in the way that works both for you and the other person. You're not the only person that can get hurt here.

[Careerchoice]

she's a reserved person

 

How could you know this?

 

and she didn't give any sign she's ready for that

 

What type of signs should we be looking for?

 

(and gave one that she isn't ready)

 

Which one was that?

 

then let her know it's not OK that she didn't kiss him, that it upset him

 

This simply did not happen.

 

then a while later she gets rejected for her actual personality.

 

Should he pretend to like her? He's allowed to be turned off by her genuine personality.

 

I think, OP, it would be great if you spend a few dates actually getting the other person

 

What indication do you have that that's not what he's trying to do? And if he finds out on the first date that he's not into her, is he obligated to continue to waste her time? Surely you don't recommend that.

 

instead of focusing how to impress her/make the right action/fulfill some manly role.

 

That's not what he's trying to do.

 

If after these first dates you get interested by someone's actual personality, their views on life, mannerisms etc., pursue that relationship romantically & physically in the way that works both for you and the other person.

 

That's not how this works. That's a way to get friendzoned as a guy. It's so funny to me that the ones who preach "be yourself" so much are the ones who simultaneously say "hold back" when it comes to the physical/romantic stuff. What if being myself is wanting her physically/romantically right away? You can't have it both ways.

 

You're not the only person that can get hurt here.

 

Men get hurt by women all the time too. There's no way to predict it. And to put all the burden of success and failure on the guy is unfair, unless you believe (which I don't) that women are the powerless victims who are completely under the control of men. You females are grown adults. If you don't want to take the risk of getting hurt in dating, don't date. It's as simple as that. But don't try to emasculate men just because you don't want to suffer hurt feelings. It's messing things up a lot more than you think.

[firelily]

That's not how this works. That's a way to get friendzoned as a guy.

 

You can let someone know right away you like them in the romantic/sexual sense without sneaking in tentacles on them. I think it can work miracles when someone clearly shows both interest and respect.

 

In OP's case, this attitude would help resolving the issues like putting a pressure on a girl he doesn't know at all to like him back, then deciding he doesn't like her after getting to know some basic info about her. I bet it doesn't feel nice for the other side. So, while other scenarios can work great for some people, I think in OP's case good old fashioned getting to know somebody a little bit before expecting something physical out of it would save a lot of trouble for everyone.

 

Men get hurt by women all the time too. There's no way to predict it. And to put all the burden of success and failure on the guy is unfair, unless you believe (which I don't) that women are the powerless victims who are completely under the control of men. You females are grown adults. If you don't want to take the risk of getting hurt in dating, don't date. It's as simple as that. But don't try to emasculate men just because you don't want to suffer hurt feelings. It's messing things up a lot more than you think.

 

I don't know how to answer to that. It never crossed my mind to treat it as men vs women subject. It was only OP vs OP's date subject. I think OP concentrates very much on how he feels in the process of dating and not so much about how other persons feel. But his dates are just as vulnerable to hurt and discomfort as he is.

[Careerchoice]

You can let someone know right away you like them in the romantic/sexual sense without sneaking in tentacles on them.

 

I have no idea what this means. Can you please elaborate?

 

I think it can work miracles when someone clearly shows both interest and respect.

 

What disrespect? Please be more specific.

 

In OP's case, this attitude would help resolving the issues like putting a pressure on a girl he doesn't know at all to like him back, then deciding he doesn't like her after getting to know some basic info about her.

 

These things did not happen. He didn't put any pressure on her to like him. And he got turned off by her due to her condescending attitude. That is a core characteristic. Even if he was turned off by only her beliefs, that is a pretty important part of a person. It's not like he was turned off by the fact that she wore red shoes instead of blue.

 

I bet it doesn't feel nice for the other side.

 

It doesn't matter if being rejected for who she is feels bad for her. Dating involves risk.

 

So, while other scenarios can work great for some people, I think in OP's case good old fashioned getting to know somebody a little bit before expecting something physical out of it would save a lot of trouble for everyone.

 

How so?

 

I think OP concentrates very much on how he feels in the process of dating and not so much about how other persons feel.

 

Why would he do otherwise? I believe I am a pretty ethical guy. I try to do right by people. I don't lie or deceive very often. I want the people around me to feel good. But when I go on a date, I'm trying to find someone who makes me happy. Expecting me to go on dates in order to make the girl happy, or even to prevent her from getting emotionally hurt, is unrealistic. What do I owe her? I don't even know her.

 

I believe you have been hurt by men in the past and you're projecting it onto all guys in the dating pool. I understand why you're doing this, but it's not correct and leading to bad advice.

 

But his dates are just as vulnerable to hurt and discomfort as he is.

 

Everyone is vulnerable in dating. But expecting men to tip-toe around women in order to prevent them from getting hurt is not realistic and would actually hurt relationships from successfully forming because the girl would just come to the conclusion that the guy isn't interested. This is the main reason a lot of guys get friendzoned. I see it happen all the time.

[figureitout23]

 

I think OP concentrates very much on how he feels in the process of dating and not so much about how other persons feel. .

 

There it is!

[firelily]

I believe you have been hurt by men in the past and you're projecting it onto all guys in the dating pool. I understand why you're doing this, but it's not correct and leading to bad advice.

 

Not really. I'm not much into typical dating. My dating pool is the same as my friend pool - people from studies, hobbies stuff etc. So basically I spot the guy that I like, get to know him through common interests in the normal way, and take time to figure out in the respectful way if he's not interested or really shy. I tend to be attracted to shy/introverted guys, so it's usually the latter or the combination of both. Based on my experiences it's hard to make any nasty generalizations about men and dating because the overwhelming majority of people I approached or were approached by were pretty nice folks.

 

My comment was only oriented at OP's situation. It seems to me he approaches dating like it was a game - if he shows genuine vulnerability and is not liked back, it's a humiliating failure, if he finds a flaw in a girl, he wins and feels more confident about himself to pursue further projects. It's not evil to feel that way, just a bit immature, and I think it will be hard to have close and satisfying experiences with this attitude.

 

I think, on the other hand, that you're internalizing this stuff a bit, identifying with OP for some reason and protecting him from other feedback than yours. I'm sure you're a different person than OP and while you may find some similarity in your outlooks on dating, I'm sure you have your own paths and what works for you may not necessarily be the perfect thing for OP.

[Careerchoice]

Not really. I'm not much into typical dating. My dating pool is the same as my friend pool - people from studies, hobbies stuff etc. So basically I spot the guy that I like, get to know him through common interests in the normal way, and take time to figure out in the respectful way if he's not interested or really shy. I tend to be attracted to shy/introverted guys, so it's usually the latter or the combination of both. Based on my experiences it's hard to make any nasty generalizations about men and dating because the overwhelming majority of people I approached or were approached by were pretty nice folks.

 

At the beginning of this year, shortly after my split with my ex, I was at a diner with my friend and his wife. I was all down in the dumps. She said "you should just get wasted one night and go to a bar and get laid." Like it was that easy for a guy lol. (I'm sure it's like that for a girl; it's not like that for most guys).

 

Dating as a man versus as a woman is not analogous at all. We play different roles in the interaction. We have different duties. That's probably the #1 reason why women don't give effective dating advice to men. You see things from your point of view only. I'm not putting you down for this. It's just the way it is.

 

My comment was only oriented at OP's situation. It seems to me he approaches dating like it was a game - if he shows genuine vulnerability and is not liked back, it's a humiliating failure, if he finds a flaw in a girl, he wins and feels more confident about himself to pursue further projects.

 

This is not the case. I've gotten to know OP a fair bit over the past few months through his threads and quite a bit of private messaging. Your assessment of him is false.

 

I think, on the other hand, that you're internalizing this stuff a bit, identifying with OP for some reason and protecting him from other feedback than yours.

 

I mean, I only identify with him in the sense that I used to not have good success with women and received a lot of ineffective advice. But my sticking points were a bit different than his. He has other challenges.

 

I'm sure you're a different person than OP and while you may find some similarity in your outlooks on dating, I'm sure you have your own paths and what works for you may not necessarily be the perfect thing for OP.

 

No disputing this statement, but it's not relevant to our conversation.

[katrina1980]

 

I think OP concentrates very much on how he feels in the process of dating and not so much about how other persons feel.

 

But his dates are just as vulnerable to hurt and discomfort as he is.

 

I am trying to understand this argument.

 

When I go on a date, should I be concerned about how my date is "feeling"? About me, about our date, about whether or not he "likes" me?

 

Would that not be his job?

 

Just as I am the one concerned about my own feelings, about whether or not "I" like him, feel good with him, and attracted to him?

 

How many times have women been advised on this forum, and others, to NOT worry about how 'he's' feeling, but rather how YOU feel, whether 'you' feel good in his presence, whether you are attracted to him!

 

Men should be doing the same when dating us. Yes? No?

 

Our "feelings" are our own responsibility. If I am not attracted to him, and don't wish to date him again, I'm sorry he's hurt or whatever, but seriously it's not my job to protect him from those feelings.

 

Just as it's not "his" job to protect me from my hurt feelings, if he doesn't wish to see me again. Assuming I liked him and wanted to date him again,

 

As Cc said, we are all vulnerable to hurt and disappointments in dating. That's the nature of dating.

 

If we're not up to the risk, then don't date.

 

Our job is to take care of ourselves, and the man's job to take care of himself. Including our own 'feelings'.

 

If this is not what you meant firelily, please clarify, cause as I said I am trying to understsand and a bit confused about your above comment. :)

 

ETA: In OP's situation, after a couple of dates, he got to know her better, and was not attracted to her. He didn't feel good in her presence, he felt belittled and looked down upon.

 

Whether or not that was her intention is irrelevant. These were his feelings, to which he is entitled, and lost his attraction.

 

I absolutely don't see how he was "self-sabotaging" anything as another other poster mentioned. He just decided he didn't like her, didn't feel good with her, it happens!

[figureitout23]

 

These things did not happen. He didn't put any pressure on her to like him. And he got turned off by her due to her condescending attitude. That is a core characteristic. Even if he was turned off by only her beliefs, that is a pretty important part of a person. It's not like he was turned off by the fact that she wore red shoes instead of blue.

 

 

A little update: I decided I can't keep myself in the dark and texted her.

 

-Hi, ! I am left with the impression that you didn't like the date. Do you think it would be our last one?

-Hi! I don't think it would be. I guess I need some time to get to know you

-I see. I just thought you don't like me because you weren't too enthusiastic about kissing me last night.

-Well, like you said, I am a strange person

-I don't worry about you being an odd person. I just don't want to invest in a situation where I'm not wanted by the other person

-You are different. I need time. I'm sorry if you aren't ok with that. We can stop seeing each other if you want to

-I AM ok with that. I just wanted to know your opinion because of my previous bitter experience. I don't want to put you under pressure. Of course we will see each other. I hope "different" is used in a good sense

-Of course it is

 

 

How do I come up with such a BS? I am reading it and laughing at myself. Pressuring a girl, exposing my insecurities... What a mess

----------

[Careerchoice]

----------

 

That's his assessment that he pressured her to like him. I don't see that at all. I see him trying to clarify her intentions. Where's the pressure there?

[figureitout23]

 

My comment was only oriented at OP's situation. It seems to me he approaches dating like it was a game - if he shows genuine vulnerability and is not liked back, it's a humiliating failure, if he finds a flaw in a girl, he wins and feels more confident about himself to pursue further projects. It's not evil to feel that way, just a bit immature, and I think it will be hard to have close and satisfying experiences with this attitude.

 

I think, on the other hand, that you're internalizing this stuff a bit, identifying with OP for some reason and protecting him from other feedback than yours. I'm sure you're a different person than OP and while you may find some similarity in your outlooks on dating, I'm sure you have your own paths and what works for you may not necessarily be the perfect thing for OP.

 

The exact point I was trying to make. So glad I'm not the only one who saw it. I don't think anyone here is saying he's not allowed to change his mind about a date, that doesn't appear to be what happened. I really don't want to go into his archives but I truly believe something very similar happened last time. Second paragraph is also extremely spot on.

 

Hoping out the convo on that note.

[Careerchoice]

The exact point I was trying to make. So glad I'm not the only one who saw it. I don't think anyone here is saying he's not allowed to change his mind about a date, that doesn't appear to be what happened. I really don't want to go into his archives but I truly believe something very similar happened last time.

 

No need to look far. https://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=542924. You made the same accusation last time, but it made equally little sense. There's no indication he's playing any games.

[figureitout23]

Thanks for making it easy, I rushed through these quotes, and it doesn't fully convey the pendulum swinging emotions but yeah...

 

From this:

 

I am looking for a serious relationship, nothing casual, but we've not discussed it. I assume she wants LTR, too, but that's just in my head. I guess I have to ask...

 

To this:

 

 

.

I don't know if I am uncomfortable when a woman likes me too much. I don't know if I am able to handle it, too. Honestly, the last time I started a serious relationship was almost 5 years ago and the relationship itself went for 3 and a half years, so I may have "forgotten" what it's like

 

I don't really think I've got commitment issues but who knows... The more info I gather the better : )

 

No, I don't want to purposefully "find" red flags, don't get me wrong. I don't want to self-sabotage myself, I want a serious relationship. It just seems too "easy", too good to be true. Maybe I am now with the wrong mindset which I acquired after my last attempt to be with a girl I liked (you can read my previous posts from the summer) as I spent a lot of time chasing her and all I got was confusion... So now when things seem to happen quick and naturally I am comparing it to my last experience and it feels strange. But I guess that's the way things should happen?? Fluent, easy, pleasant? I hope so. Meanwhile we are going out this evening, so wish me luck

 

To this:

 

I am not a commitment-phobe at all, I do want a relationship and I liked the girl. I just thought she was moving too fast after just three dates. Like we were already in a relationship. I don't know her yet so I want things to progress slower and to get to know her. The fact that I like her doesn't mean there could not be some deal-breaker for me (or for her as well). Her acting like that (or me interpreting her actions wrongly, it may be that as well!) made me feel what I felt.

 

Back to panic

 

Never mind. I didn't act cold or distant on the last date and I didn't show that something bothers me as I didn't realize it at the moment really. We parted ways with a kiss and a good night so I don't think I've done something that can push her away. That doesn't mean she couldn't sense it so it may be a reason for her to disapper. I don't know and I don't care. Just another rejection in my long list

 

What else could it be? She hadn't opened her Viber for couple of days and my messages were just "delivered" but I saw she was online several hours ago and the status of the messages is the same. I won't message her anymore as I value myself now, I think 2 or 3 messages in a row is the most I can afford to send without the other person even seeing them. It really is strange to me, but she is doing what she wants to do so I go on with my life.

 

 

And I wasn't the only one who saw it, folks saw it very early on.

 

TO me is seems like you are trying to find red flags where there aren't any. The more you look, the bigger likelihood you will find something that you could use to not be bothered pursuing a relationship. THis is called self sabotage. Perhaps this means you aren't interested enough yourself?

 

So, she said yes to a date a little too quickly, and seems eager even after you left it a month to contact her. I would relax a little and go with it. If you enjoyed each other's company, then just enjoy dating her.

 

How do you argue with what's there in black and white? You must be very familiar with gaslighting.

 

Anyway, Iike I said, nothing else for me to add. im out. I still think you two seem to get each other, just maybe chill out a little

[Careerchoice]

Thanks for making it easy

 

From this:

 

 

 

To this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

To this:

 

 

 

Back to panic

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I wasn't the only one who saw it, folks saw it very early on.

 

 

 

How do you argue with what's there in black and white? You must be very familiar with gaslighting.

 

Anyway, Iike I said, nothing else for me to add. im out.

 

This only shows he's inexperienced and confused at times. No games.

[bbogdanov]

Thanks for so deeply analyzing me and my behaviour I see couple of people trying to make me look bad, I guess they are perfect : ) I play no games, I'm just learning from experience. As you see, I point out my flaws and even laugh at them, I don't care if you insult me by saying things that aren't true. But everybody has an opinion and that's why I've posted the topic. I could as well do what I want to do without having to be attacked virtually by some particular posters here. I try to sift out all the useful info, though, so keep posting.

 

I haven't been in contact with the last girl since last Saturday (when she apologized to me twice). I just lost interest, not completely but... Meanwhile I've got lined up 3 different dates for the next 3 days and another one for 30.12. The show goes on.

[firelily]

Sorry OP if I insulted you. I just wanted to share feedback based on your posts - you're right my knowlegde of you is limited, to just this thread. I just don't see 3 dates in 3 days as a success in your case. It feels nice, it's an ego boost, but dating is not about staying on the top. It's alright of course that you lost interest, happens all the time. A bit ill timing though to do this so shortly between making her know you're afraid of rejection and putting a pressure on her to like you, and letting her apologize you twice to keep the contact, just to avoid keeping it. A bit of a rollercoaster. Of course you don't owe anybody anything. I'm just not sure if you realize the other side feels vulnerability, discomfort and rejection as deeply as you do.

[firelily]

Our job is to take care of ourselves, and the man's job to take care of himself. Including our own 'feelings'.

 

If this is not what you meant firelily, please clarify, cause as I said I am trying to understsand and a bit confused about your above comment. :)

 

Absolutely not what I meant!

 

If course it's the only healthy thing to do. Healthy people notice other people's feelings, are aware of them, but generally make decisions based on their own needs. This is super healthy.

 

However, there's this thing that happens all the time. This is not about OP, because I have a very limited knowledge of him, just to show that there are cases when people should be encouraged to care.

 

Say a woman who always kept a distance from men, or a man who never had a sister or a female friend, they go out into the dating world and they have this idea that the opposite sex is a completely different creature from them. When they're young, they get rejected, and they perceive their crushes as some godlike creatures who are made from completely different material, they wish they could possess them but they feel unworthy and don't even know where to start. It makes them want to learn dating games, think so much about how to impress the other person, how to show yourself, what a woman should do, what a man should do, because they can have the other person once they'll crack their code, that this is about winning and not about a genuine connection. A person like that will hold someone's hand on a date not because they feel like it and it comes of as natural in the moment - they will analyze the strategy, put a hand on someone's hand as means of making them attracted, they'll check how much they can push the boundaries without totally scaring the other person... And they think it's their job to push boundaries as if the other person couldn't get attracted on their own to them, as if it was a game with a clock ticking. A person like that feels rejection as punishment and a sign of unworthiness, vulnerability of the other side as off-putting (just like when somebody lets you win in cards just to make you happy - they choose fun over competition, and you were so dead-set on competition that it ruins the victory for you), and rejecting the previously godlike creature feels absolutely wonderful to them, like they're above that, like what they couldn't possess is what they choose not to possess. It's a power play and not the process of getting close to another person. And there is too little place for empathy, for realizing the other person is just as human, that they will feel rejection as painfully as I do, that pressuring them might feel uncomfortable. It hinders the closed-off person from finding the experience they were actually after and it makes it usually a sad and unpleasant experience for the other side, because it's a lot of hot&cold, confusion, and getting rejected the moment you show that you're not a god.

 

So in some cases, people should be encouraged to care more about the other person, even though everybody is responsible for their own feelings. In the case above that would be helpful.

 

I have definitely too little information from this thread to say all this about OP. I have no idea how he perceives women and how his past experiences were. I just noticed he's doing the thing of approaching his date as a competition and not a 3D person with feelings, and I think this is not the right thing to do, it's counterproductive for him and unnecessarily painful/uncomfortable for the other side.

[bbogdanov]

Sorry OP if I insulted you. I just wanted to share feedback based on your posts - you're right my knowlegde of you is limited, to just this thread. I just don't see 3 dates in 3 days as a success in your case. It feels nice, it's an ego boost, but dating is not about staying on the top. It's alright of course that you lost interest, happens all the time. A bit ill timing though to do this so shortly between making her know you're afraid of rejection and putting a pressure on her to like you, and letting her apologize you twice to keep the contact, just to avoid keeping it. A bit of a rollercoaster. Of course you don't owe anybody anything. I'm just not sure if you realize the other side feels vulnerability, discomfort and rejection as deeply as you do.

 

I didn't mean you, specifically : ) Every feedback is welcome, I try to get as much knowledge as I can from here. I didn't say 3 dates in 3 days is a success and I really didn't want to happen that way - I feel exhausted sometimes by all this. It just happened like that. But I guess the more dates the better - the chance of finding somebody that suits me is higher, or not?

 

As for the last girl - I didn't mean to put a pressure on her. I wanted to know if she likes me (somehow) and that was the only way I could think of to do it (stupid way, I guess). That was after our 2nd date. The third date was the one with sharing of beliefs. She did apologize to me twice, but I have not provoked it, it was her decision to do it. And I told her twice that nothing bad had happened, it was just sharing different opinions. I told her there was no problem and that was... She didn't contact me afterwards. I would like her to, I haven't rejected her, but she just doesn't reach out. I feel rejection to some extent. I reassured her everything's fine, but...

[mustlovedogs]

I’m not reading all the responses. But never go in for a kiss after you’ve been rejected from one once - let alone twice!!

[bbogdanov]

It seems you are not reading the story, too I wasn't rejected and even if I was - it was once, not twice

[katrina1980]

@firelily, thanks for clarifying.

 

Of course intentionally misleading someone, not giving a * about how the other person might be negatively affected by his/her dishonest and disingenuous behavior, and lacking empathy is wrong and bordering on sociopathy, which is a whole different thing.

 

But I don't see any indication the OP is doing this, he is simply an inexperienced guy trying to navigate his way through the dating scene, learning as he goes along.

 

With respect to assertions that he self-sabotages or has "commitment" issues, being the sister of a man with severe commitment issues who self-sabotages at every turn it takes a VERY long time before someone with these types of issues is able to recognize them, in him/herself.

 

Like years of dating, combined with self-awareness, and a clear pattern being established of "falling in love" with unavailable women and then immediately falling out of love and running once the "same" woman becomes available and reciprocates his feelings.

 

Re the woman he dated for several months, became obsessed with and chased her, it would have been interesting to see how he would have reacted if this same woman suddenly became available and wanted a committed relationship with him.

 

Would HE suddenly have doubts and not want it? Felt boxed in and suffocated by it? Started finding "things" wrong, justifying why he suddenly lost interest?

 

If so that would indicate possible commitment issues, but this did not happen. She rejected him. He moved on and learned. Which is very healthy!

 

Now he's dating various women, some he likes, some he does not.

 

Some he liked at first, then as he got to know better, changed his mind which is his right and doesn't indicate a problem.

 

I think there is way too much over-analysis and over-thinking going on in this thread by some folks. Perhaps some projecting, a lot of spin, or just a need to be "right."

 

I mean digging up past posts and using those words against him, for what to prove a point?

 

Let it go, let OP continue meeting women, having lots of dates, gaining experience and learning.

 

What's happening now, all the criticism and accusations of self-sabotage and commitment issues aren't helping him learn a damn thing. In fact the opposite, they're messing with his head and perhaps causing him to even doubt/question himself, even though he's doing a pretty good job of defending who he is, and how he's choosing to move forward in dating, to the best of his ability, with fairness and honesty.

 

Doesnt mean he will never hurt or disappoint women, that's just the nature of dating. Just as there is no guarantee HE won't get hurt by them.

 

Just my opinion as always.

[firelily]

Yes you're right - OP feels like he's inexperienced rather than sociopathic and I hope he has a lot of happy dating ahead of him. With more experience, I hope his dates will get more relaxed, natural, respectful, that he will know better what he likes and doesn't like in the opposite sex and learn to be more fine with vulnerability. I think developing more empathy, 3D mindset at looking at the person will work great for him, and make his dates spontaneous and nice experiences for both sides. Of course he should put his needs first, just stay aware that women he dates are taking the same emotional risks he does here, which he may be more aware than I give him credit for because I don't know him personally, it just seemed from the posts here like he didn't that much, it looked a bit like an idealisation/devaluation thing (which tends to be unnecessary painful for the other side even given the normal risks of dating). And btw, getting out of the idealisation/devaluation trap is not the same as forcing committed to people we don't like, obviously. It's just about making sure the reasons for being into somebody (with obsessing, pressuring kisses etc.) and the reasons for quickly getting over somebody are both the right reasons and not ego-based reasons.

[figureitout23]

Thanks for so deeply analyzing me and my behaviour I see couple of people trying to make me look bad, I guess they are perfect : ) I play no games, I'm just learning from experience. As you see, I point out my flaws and even laugh at them, I don't care if you insult me by saying things that aren't true. But everybody has an opinion and that's why I've posted the topic. I could as well do what I want to do without having to be attacked virtually by some particular posters here. I try to sift out all the useful info, though, so keep posting.

 

I haven't been in contact with the last girl since last Saturday (when she apologized to me twice). I just lost interest, not completely but... Meanwhile I've got lined up 3 different dates for the next 3 days and another one for 30.12. The show goes on.

 

Is this referencing me? I can't tell there's no names being used or quotes. I don't do indirect well.

 

If this is referencing me and you're accusing me of judging you or attacking you or claiming to be perfect, that's far from what I'm attempting to do. All I did was quote your own words after being accused by another poster of making things up, which I have no reason to do. I have no stake in this.

 

Again, I have no stake in this BB, I don't have to date you, if I'm off, I'm off. No big deal. But I will say, old habits die hard, if this is indeed a pattern with you,it will happen again so maybe see if you notice it too. I used quotes where it seems you recognized your patterns which is awesome. I hope you continue to do that. I have my own bad patterns with dating. I am not coming at you as if I don't because I do. Please read my posts, I am very open about the fact that I suffer horribly with anxiety. I think dating becomes a lot easier when we recognize our habits and work around them.

 

Believe it or not I wish you luck and as I said I think you and cc seem to understand each other and I hope he continues to aid you on your journey 😊

[mustlovedogs]

It seems you are not reading the story, too I wasn't rejected and even if I was - it was once, not twice Calm down

 

She turned away from you twice...