Was it rape?

[crazybaby]

two things

(necessarily graphic)

 

one

in a differently gendered rape case, penile penetration is one directional. Penetration is necessary for rape, otherwise its sexual assault.

 

two

If both parties are drunk, and one party penetrates the other without consent, that's rape.

 

period.

 

Thank you for being so understanding. Yes what happened to me was rape as hard it is for me to say that.

[crazybaby]

You aren't by chance taking the stop smoking drug Chantix? I took it, it made me black out after 2 drinks. Very scary.

 

No but taking citalopram.

[thornz]

two things

(necessarily graphic)

 

one

in a differently gendered rape case, penile penetration is one directional. Penetration is necessary for rape, otherwise its sexual assault.

 

two

If both parties are drunk, and one party penetrates the other without consent, that's rape.

 

period.

 

I'm not sure if you're suggesting that only a man can rape a woman with your statement so I will add this:

 

Rape is penetration of the mouth, anus or vagina, with an object, body part or sexual organ.

 

There was an infamous report of a woman being raped on a bus in India with an object that caused her death.

 

Also depending on which country you reside in, their laws may dictate that if you are drunk you are incapable of consent full stop.

[Seraphim]

None of us are suggesting only women get raped, but the GUY perpetrated sex on her. If it was a woman forcing sex on a drunk guy than that is rape as well . But that's not what happened .

[IAmFCA]

I'm not sure if you're suggesting that only a man can rape a woman with your statement so I will add this:

 

Rape is penetration of the mouth, anus or vagina, with an object, body part or sexual organ.

 

There was an infamous report of a woman being raped on a bus in India with an object that caused her death.

 

Also depending on which country you reside in, their laws may dictate that if you are drunk you are incapable of consent full stop.

 

Accurate. In the US, it is a state by state definition, regrettably.

[crazybaby]

Accurate. In the US, it is a state by state definition, regrettably.

 

I'm the UK not the US

[LaHermes]

"Rape is a statutory offence in England and Wales. According to the law, rape can be committed by any person, involving any type of non- consensual penetration. If a victim is forcefully penetrated with an object, this is classed as "Sexual Assault by Penetration"."

 

The Crown Prosecution Service (UK):

 

 

[ak381015]

I would be thinking about why I got that drunk...am I unhappy? Putting myself in that type of situation is not something I would normally do...it sounded consensual and now you feel guilty for it as would I. Where were the friends for support?

[mustlovedogs]

I would be thinking about why I got that drunk...am I unhappy? Putting myself in that type of situation is not something I would normally do...it sounded consensual and now you feel guilty for it as would I. Where were the friends for support?

 

You're blaming the victim. That's not ok.

[ak381015]

Not blaming anyone...it sounds consensual

[Seraphim]

Being drunk implies no consent. She legally cannot give consent . If she can't remember 9/10 of what happened how is that consent ?

[ak381015]

We are all aware of the monsters out there...we all know alcohol inhibits us. It doesn't sound like rape to me. It sounds like a bad decision fueled by alcohol. No one puts liquor in my system except me and it seems like a regretted decision. The guy stopped once when he was asked. Maybe he doesn't remember much too...there are two parts to this and rape is a very serious accusation. It honestly doesn't sound like it to me.

[ak381015]

Being drunk implies no consent. She legally cannot give consent . If she can't remember 9/10 of what happened how is that consent ?

I hear you. I'm wondering how much this man remembers also.

[Seraphim]

We are all aware of the monsters out there...we all know alcohol inhibits us. It doesn't sound like rape to me. It sounds like a bad decision fueled by alcohol. No one puts liquor in my system except me and it seems like a regretted decision. The guy stopped once when he was asked. Maybe he doesn't remember much too...there are two parts to this and rape is a very serious accusation. It honestly doesn't sound like it to me.

No, he stopped giving oral but not the rest of the sex. If he started the sex it is on him . Saying there are monsters out there so don't get drunk is still blaming the victim . It's a very common statement from society but it doesn't make it any less innocuous and damaging to victims who are already drowning in guilt and shame .

[ak381015]

Its a terrible situation. Has anyone spoken with him?

[jimthzz]

I'm sorry for what you endured, even if you may have at the time agreed to some of the encounter.

 

The hard part for you is the legalities and the emotional impact, medical.

 

Legalities: How did this guy know you were incapacitated by booze? Was he also drunk? Did that impair his ability to discern your state of mind? Was there any point in time where you said Yes? And, when did you say No?

 

Emotional: You will need the support of family and friends and some counseling. It was traumatic. Plus, you may have to work through some feelings of guilt for having gotten so intoxicated.

 

Medical: You need to get tested for STDs and possibly a pregnancy test.

 

Good luck!

[mustlovedogs]

Not blaming anyone...it sounds consensual

 

In what way? How could she consent if she doesn't remember it at all?

[ak381015]

In what way? How could she consent if she doesn't remember it at all?

In the post she's asking if it was rape and parts are not remembered. It was a terrible experience but it doesn't sound like rape to me.

[Seraphim]

You. Can. NOT. Consent . If . Drunk. = RAPE. Period.

 

So the sooner people figure this out the better.

 

As stated by a U.K. justice:

 

In making the ruling, Sir Igor said: "If, through drink - or for any other reason - the complainant has temporarily lost her capacity to choose whether to have intercourse on the relevant occasion, she is not consenting, and subject to questions about the defendant's state of mind, if the intercourse takes place, this would be rape.

 

"However, where the complainant has voluntarily consumed even substantial quantities of alcohol, but nevertheless remains capable of choosing whether or not to have intercourse, and in drink agrees to do so this would not be rape."

 

He added that the "capacity to consent may evaporate well before a complainant becomes unconscious".

 

By how upset she sounds doesn't sound to me like she consented . And society makes people question whether rape occurred or not and they do it all the time there is intense victim blaming when it comes to sexual assault . I questioned for decades wether I was raped or not under similar circumstances when I was 19 until in my 40s my counsellor told me it was rape and society all the time tries to convince women it isn't .

[faraday]

I would be thinking about why I got that drunk...am I unhappy? Putting myself in that type of situation is not something I would normally do...it sounded consensual and now you feel guilty for it as would I. Where were the friends for support?

 

So if anyone drinks a bit too much they should have major self reflection on what's wrong with their life? Even if you drank too much by accident? Like maybe you didn't eat enough dinner, or someone mixed your drinks stronger than you thought? That calls for major reflection?

 

Seriously?

 

This is total victim blaming. If the OP was going out and getting wasted every night or every weekend yes, she should think about why she needs to do that (anyone in that situation should), but that is completely separate from what happened to her that night. It shouldn't be coming up in this discussion. This is about rape, not about drinking. Separate issues. When you try to combine them like this it does come off as victim blaming.

[faraday]

Not blaming anyone...it sounds consensual

 

So if you drink too much and can't say no to me taking your wallet, it was consensual? I didn't steal your wallet?

 

What about if you were so drunk that you don't remember giving me your wallet? I asked and you gave it to me. Maybe I lied to you- offered to get you an uber or pizza or something and because you weren't with it, you handed me your wallet, and I took off with it...is that stealing?

[katrina1980]

 

I was out on Saturday with my friends and was really drunk but the time the club shut. I left my friends to go on my way and got chatting to this guy. I vaguely remember being in a taxi with him and then i was back at his house. I just remember crashing on his bed and then i remember bits with us having sex. I can't remember removing my clothes and i have a bruise on my wrist. I seem to remember participating at times but there was an occassion where i tried to push him away but he still continued.

 

I am a legal assistant in the U.S. and unless the laws in UK are different (which they may be) this would fall under the category of “date rape.”

 

Difficult if not impossible to prove in a court of law as it’s essentially a he said/she said situation (unless he slipped you a drug prior and it was proven through a rape kit or other type of testing) which would make it much easier to prove in court along with other charges.

 

So crazybaby, as traumatic as this was, and I’m so sorry I would not advise bringing charges. Your entire life including your sex life with your husband and every boyfriend, lover you have ever had will be dissected, scrutinized, criticized, and put through the ringer, in court and perhaps leaking to the public, leaving you feeling humiliated and even more devastated than you are now.

 

Counseling yes definitely! And also some heavy introspection with you reflecting back on your own behavior, specifically why you chose to get so drunk you couldn’t remember the next day what happened to you.

 

I mean, you must’ve been pretty damn drunk, correct?

 

As devastating as this was, when we experience anything traumatic in life, I believe in taking responsibility for our own actions and behavior too and the consequences thereof.

 

Unless of course, he slipped you a drug prior (Rohypnol for example) , rendering you unconscious which is an entirely different situation altogether

 

IMO it’s not enough to say “well I was so drunk I didn’t know what I was doing,” which even if true does not negate the fact it was you who chose to get so drunk you had no control over your body or the situation.

 

You have one hell of an understanding husband, be thankful for that.

 

And hopefully lesson learned to not place yourself in situations where something like this could happen again, which starts with controlling your drinking and taking some responsibility for what happens to you.

 

As you stated above in your original post, you DO remember bits and pieces, I am not suggesting what he did was okay, IT WAS DEFINITELY NOT, I am only suggesting to own your part in what happened, that's all. I think it's important.

 

All that said, again am so sorry you are going through this. Like I said, be thankful you have such an understanding husband; together and with the help of other family member and friends, and a reputable counselor who specializes in these types of assaults, you WILL get through this, stronger and wiser than you were prior to.

 

Best of luck!

[LaHermes]

The OP is in the U.K.

[katrina1980]

The OP is in the U.K.

 

Date rape occurs in the UK too. Just like in the U.S. extremely difficult to prove.

 

 

[Seraphim]

These kinds of threads make me so sad for victims. They really do.