Opinions: Would you kick out my housemate?

[RainyCoast]

i might raise eyebrows but i think a large part of the problem is you've been too accommodating.

 

i'd insist on a drying rack for example, and wouldn't do things for her. your reaction to her hangover is quite...nurturing. that's nice of you, but i think things like that make her..too comfortable to bother. she gets to live in a fluffy, neat, fragrant, clean, well-stocked home with a pleasant color scheme and get her way with not picking up her slack with the chores because it ends up being done anyway, and then she's rewarded with a hangover omelette when she leaves vomit around. yeah, it's the perfect place, of course she loves it. She wouldn't even have this comfort living at the "Chez Maman", because i have yet to see a mum who would clean up her puke and then dote on her.

 

i'm shocked with the vomit thing. it's one thing when both are equal tenants and more...relaxed about what the place looks like, but this isn't a dorm for heaven's sake, and i can't imagine renting a room in someone's place and not following their house rules and leaving dirt and vomit around. i can't believe ppl are not thinking this is greatly overstepping the line. it's just...unfathomable to me, i'd never do that. on my 19th birthday some of my friends were stupid drunk and vomited on hotel sheets and the carpet- my sober friend washed it off in the tub while i scrubbed the carpet because we were embarrassed to leave such a gross mess for the hotel staff to clean, even though we wouldn't mind being charged extra for the clean-up and all, and they were very kind...it's just...not what you do you know. seriously...you just...don't leave your puke at someone's place like that.

 

it may be because you put in a lot off effort to accommodate her that your resentment piles up like that, so what some people refer to as being passive aggressive i think is you doing more and better for her than you're comfortable, while hating every second of it.

 

you're the boss of this place, time to be assertive. house rules are definitely "a thing", omg, and you get to insist on them, and show her the door if she can't respect those (i agree to give her fair notice).

[glitterfingers]

i might raise eyebrows but i think a large part of the problem is you've been too accommodating.

 

i'd insist on a drying rack for example, and wouldn't do things for her. your reaction to her hangover is quite...nurturing. that's nice of you, but i think things like that make her..too comfortable to bother. she gets to live in a fluffy, neat, fragrant, clean, well-stocked home with a pleasant color scheme and get her way with not picking up her slack with the chores because it ends up being done anyway, and then she's rewarded with a hangover omelette when she leaves vomit around. yeah, it's the perfect place, of course she loves it. She wouldn't even have this comfort living at the "Chez Maman", because i have yet to see a mum who would clean up her puke and then dote on her.

 

i'm shocked with the vomit thing. it's one thing when both are equal tenants and more...relaxed about what the place looks like, but this isn't a dorm for heaven's sake, and i can't imagine renting a room in someone's place and not following their house rules and leaving dirt and vomit around. i can't believe ppl are not thinking this is greatly overstepping the line. it's just...unfathomable to me, i'd never do that. on my 19th birthday some of my friends were stupid drunk and vomited on hotel sheets and the carpet- my sober friend washed it off in the tub while i scrubbed the carpet because we were embarrassed to leave such a gross mess for the hotel staff to clean, even though we wouldn't mind being charged extra for the clean-up and all, and they were very kind...it's just...not what you do you know. seriously...you just...don't leave your puke at someone's place like that.

 

it may be because you put in a lot off effort to accommodate her that your resentment piles up like that, so what some people refer to as being passive aggressive i think is you doing more and better for her than you're comfortable, while hating every second of it.

 

you're the boss of this place, time to be assertive. house rules are definitely "a thing", omg, and you get to insist on them, and show her the door if she can't respect those (i agree to give her fair notice).

 

Pretty much. She's told me a few times in passing that I'm "too polite". Which is why I was kind of shellshocked by a number of the responses here suggesting I was controlling her by making rules/schedules, when I was having conversations with her and trying to accommodate her as she settled into the place. I don't mind going a little above and beyond if someone is going to treat me with respect. I know that nobody is easy to live with, so I'm not under the delusion that I'm a perfect housemate. I'm home a lot studying so if I'm going to get some exercise, I often make it in the evenings after she gets home from work so as not to annoy her with my constant presence. Thinking about it, it's probably pretty ridiculous that I've done half the stuff I do - I do it basically without thinking too, just seems like the right way to live in harmony with people?

 

The resentment isn't that she doesn't do the same - it's that she does the bare minimum, and about not being able to have a two-way relationship with her where if I have a concern I can raise it. I've tried telling her twice that she wakes me up in the early morning by slamming doors and stomping around, but she would interrupt me/talk over me. I tried asking her about recycling but she'd nod and forget about it. She also made a few comments that I thought were disrespectful towards me/my life choices, so I just gave up trying. Left a few notes as suggested by friends/bf. Sent a couple texts (she ignored the one I sent today, as usual)

 

I can't nag or confront her. And I am absolutely dreading sitting her down and having a conversation with her because I don't know whether she will listen/give me a chance to talk, or change any behaviour, and I don't understand why being polite but direct on a few specific issues doesn't seem to work? Maybe she is just used to being nagged by parents...

[RainyCoast]

I do it basically without thinking too, just seems like the right way to live in harmony with people?

yes. i truly think it's more than possible to get an equally considerate tenant.

[LaHermes]

Glitter.

 

I completely get that you are NOT controlling. There has to be some modicum of order if the house isn't going to be permanently like a chimpanzees' tea-party! lol.

 

You remark:

 

I'm home a lot studying so if I'm going to get some exercise, I often make it in the evenings after she gets home from work so as not to annoy her with my constant presence. Thinking about it, it's probably pretty ridiculous that I've done half the stuff I do - I do it basically without thinking too, just seems like the right way to live in harmony with people?

 

Sounds very considerate.

 

Thing is that an awful lot of people have been dragged up rather than being brought up and don't have much idea about half-way civilized living.

 

It is a pity that you are so constrained by the need to have someone sharing and that you are unlucky with your present sub-tenant.

[Seraphim]

I would have been done at cleaning someone's vomit. Just , NO. My child who I gave birth to and raised after a certain age did not expect me to clean his vomit when he was sick. Clean up what amounts to a perfect stranger's vomit when they are perfectly capable? Screw that.

[glitterfingers]

On the topic of not being a perfect housemate - I did have to ask her to start putting her dishes away every 1-2 days after she would fill two drying racks and leave it for up to a week, stacking things on top.

 

I noticed after a while that a lot of the cutlery placed back into the drawer wasn't washed properly. So instead of putting my cutlery away, I keep it in my drying cylinder and reuse it. She's got 75% of the cutlery drawer to herself, but probably thinks I'm being a huge hypocrite ... don't have the heart to tell her the truth, but wouldn't be surprised that she sees this as a double standard

[glitterfingers]

I would have been done at cleaning someone's vomit. Just , NO. My child who I gave birth to and raised after a certain age did not expect me to clean his vomit when he was sick. Clean up what amounts to a perfect stranger's vomit when they are perfectly capable? Screw that.

 

I didn't really clean it up, it was just a stain in the toilet bowl because she was drinking red wine (I presume), and it didn't come off when the toilet was flushed. I was thinking about bleaching the toilet tonight but it's on the cleaning schedule!...how naive is that line of thought?

[LaHermes]

Glitter.

 

Going back to the title of your thread:

 

Would you kick out my housemate?

 

I would, yes. What do you think you are going to do?

[RainyCoast]

i suggest reading the past 2 or so threads by Naomi99. i'm having flashbacks, she was too accommodating and "nice" with a p.o.s. inconsiderate individual. go see how that worked out. get over the aversion to assert yourself firmly and put your foot down. you can do it.

 

neglecting chores, hogging surfaces, asking favors, talking disrespectfully, slamming doors, unannounced drunken overnighters, this wasn't the agreement.

 

it isn't what you should be putting up with. plenty of ppl who can stick to an agreement.

[glitterfingers]

Glitter.

 

Going back to the title of your thread:

 

Would you kick out my housemate?

 

I would, yes. What do you think you are going to do?

 

I think it is best that I consider this in the longer term, but it's certainly not something I can blindside her with. I am also wary that giving her any indication of my thought pattern could cause her to look for another room and leave prematurely, which might jeopardise my position. Actually spoke to my boyfriend AND brother about this today, specifically her ignoring my texts again - boyfriend says she's hoping the problems go away on their own (i.e. she knows the vomit and dirty bathmat are not good things), brother says housemate doesn't like me and is showing contempt. I'm going to have to sit down and talk to her as a first course of action (preferably condense my concerns into three main points), because I simply cannot read the situation clearly (damn ASD! so at least trying to have dialogue should answer my question of whether constructive conversations are possible

 

From there, I will see if improvements are made. But I predict that she's going to show me some degree of disrespect and/or things won't really get much better. I will have no choice but to ask her to leave, but at least I'll have gone through the conciliation process and done the right thing by her

[journeynow]

Conversations don't seem to get the results you need, though. Remember, words are one thing, actions are another.

[ParisPaulette]

She would have been gone the first time she started demanding special treatment over the bond issue. You've put up with way too much. Find out what it will take to legally get her out of there and proceed. Now, today.

[boltnrun]

Twelve pages and the conclusion is the same...you two are not compatible as roommates.

 

You can go overboard for her, you can have conversations, you can write notes and post schedules, but like I said twice before, SHE WILL NOT CHANGE. And neither will you. Neither of you will magically morph into who the other one thinks you should be. Not going to happen.

 

I will tell you what I did when I had a roomie who put a Coke can in the freezer and forgot about it, causing it to explode, then left it for me to clean up (because she was "in a hurry"), who dumped an entire pot of soup into the trash bag in the kitchen so when I lifted it out of the trash can to take the trash out it burst the bag, spilling the soup all over the carpet, who refused to run the dishwasher or empty it when I ran it, who left her flat iron on SET ONTO THE CARPET IN HER BEDROOM, causing the smoke alarm to go off, who set a lit candle on the carpet in her room causing a huge wax puddle on the carpet, then moved her bed ("rearranging" her room) to hide it, who would take things like a space heater out of my room (closed door) and set them up in her room without asking, who threw things like aluminum cans and plastic water bottles down the sink disposal because she thought it was actually a garbage disposal...I told her she had to move out. Instead of "kicking" her out, I sat down with her and explained that I needed her room and that she had 30 days to find somewhere else to live. She did move out but even the process of moving out was a big hassle (she left her bed frame and mattress set and a table in the condo and wouldn't respond to my messages asking her to pick them up, so I sold them and kept the money), but it was such a relief to have her gone! Of course, my situation was a bit different because I could afford the place on my own so I didn't need her money.

 

I have to ask, if you are unable to afford a place on your own why don't you move back home or in to on-campus housing?

[glitterfingers]

Twelve pages and the conclusion is the same...you two are not compatible as roommates.

 

You can go overboard for her, you can have conversations, you can write notes and post schedules, but like I said twice before, SHE WILL NOT CHANGE. And neither will you. Neither of you will magically morph into who the other one thinks you should be. Not going to happen.

 

I will tell you what I did when I had a roomie who put a Coke can in the freezer and forgot about it, causing it to explode, then left it for me to clean up (because she was "in a hurry"), who dumped an entire pot of soup into the trash bag in the kitchen so when I lifted it out of the trash can to take the trash out it burst the bag, spilling the soup all over the carpet, who refused to run the dishwasher or empty it when I ran it, who left her flat iron on SET ONTO THE CARPET IN HER BEDROOM, causing the smoke alarm to go off, who set a lit candle on the carpet in her room causing a huge wax puddle on the carpet, then moved her bed ("rearranging" her room) to hide it, who would take things like a space heater out of my room (closed door) and set them up in her room without asking, who threw things like aluminum cans and plastic water bottles down the sink disposal because she thought it was actually a garbage disposal...I told her she had to move out. Instead of "kicking" her out, I sat down with her and explained that I needed her room and that she had 30 days to find somewhere else to live. She did move out but even the process of moving out was a big hassle (she left her bed frame and mattress set and a table in the condo and wouldn't respond to my messages asking her to pick them up, so I sold them and kept the money), but it was such a relief to have her gone! Of course, my situation was a bit different because I could afford the place on my own so I didn't need her money.

 

I have to ask, if you are unable to afford a place on your own why don't you move back home or in to on-campus housing?

 

Too true. And honestly that sounds like a total nightmare. I'd be an emotional wreck by the end of that person's tenancy - I'm glad I took the extra time to screen to try and avoid character's who are that bad. My housemate just seems to have respect/awareness issues but hasn't caused damage to the property (as far as I can tell)

 

No parents and my nearest relatives who could house me live 1.5 hrs away from my uni by car, and I don't have a car so I'd be dependent on them for transport to major train stations (fairly isolated location). Not viable and would put too much pressure on them, not to mention their only spare room is my uncle's office when he works from home.

 

On campus accommodation is surprisingly more expensive than my current set up, sharing with 4-5 others per townhouse. I had a friend living there and the place was always piled high with junk/dishes in the kitchen etc. I'm about 7 mins walk from the campus accommodation and had a few girls looking at my spare room in desperation to move out of the on campus accommodation. Not to mention I would have to give up my cat and all of my furniture

 

I went through all of the options and this was the best by a long shot! Just have to be careful about who I get in to sublet

[glitterfingers]

Conversations don't seem to get the results you need, though. Remember, words are one thing, actions are another.

 

Aware of this, hence the pure dread I am experiencing, but if I'm going to remove someone from a living situation in which they seem quite content, I at least need to go about it the right way - I'm not holding out for much improvement

[glitterfingers]

Thank you everyone for your advice. It's given me a lot of extremely valuable perspective

 

 

[journeynow]

Aware of this, hence the pure dread I am experiencing, but if I'm going to remove someone from a living situation in which they seem quite content, I at least need to go about it the right way - I'm not holding out for much improvement

 

Remember, your goal is not her happiness, but yours.You can be kind while doing this, but don't bend over backward being "nice". Having her leave may bring you short term pain for long term gain (or happiness). Just ask yourself if avoiding it (because it feels like confrontation?) causes YOU long term pain/unhappiness. Try to see it from a bigger perspective: this is you learning more about yourself, learning what you like/don't like (so you'll can speak up for these things in the future) and resolving this situation is practice for the Future Glitterfingers (who will appreciate having had the experience and the ability to handle these kind of challenges.)

[glitterfingers]

Remember, your goal is not her happiness, but yours.You can be kind while doing this, but don't bend over backward being "nice". Having her leave may bring you short term pain for long term gain (or happiness). Just ask yourself if avoiding it (because it feels like confrontation?) causes YOU long term pain/unhappiness. Try to see it from a bigger perspective: this is you learning more about yourself, learning what you like/don't like (so you'll can speak up for these things in the future) and resolving this situation is practice for the Future Glitterfingers (who will appreciate having had the experience and the ability to handle these kind of challenges.)

 

Yep! Walked into the bathroom this morning to find another stain in the toilet, and not the vomit kind. I'll have to check if she got my text message, because that is beyond ridiculous as a response (to ignore the text about the vomit stain and then go and do that - we have a toilet brush...). She seems to be avoiding me too.

 

I've avoided confrontation because I didn't want to be unreasonable and pedantic (i.e. Sheldon Cooper), but clearly my behaviour has created a big problem for me.

 

Is it worth listing off the things that I'm unhappy about?

- Leaving the bathroom the way she found it

- Turning lights off and locking the front door consistently

- Abiding by our signed agreement for cleaning/guests or notifying me if something comes up where she can't

- Simply acknowledging that she's received a message even if she doesn't want to respond

 

At least then she has an opportunity to air any concerns of her own, or change her behaviour...or leave, if she thinks I'm being unreasonable.

 

I have to give her at least 3 weeks notice unless I tell her specifically what parts of our agreement she's broken. Timing is a bit off at the moment, but I have to say something

[Dahl]

I would have to give up my cat

 

You have my sincere sympathy that you might have to consider this and I hope it doesn't come to it. Best of luck!

[HopefulFather]

Yeah, I can see I worded my OP very poorly and have gotten a lot of responses based on that poor representation of the situation. What we had were a series of conversations which resulted in apparently mutual agreements. I only used the term "rules" in my OP because it seems that she now views them as "rules" rather than the agreements that they were - i.e. She doesn't feel that these agreements/conversations apply to her, so they're not really mutual agreements anymore are they? She's treating them like rules that I made which are there to be broken, rather than agreements for which she had equal input, which was the reality

 

With my housemates I put agreements in writing and say it is just to keep what is said consistent because memory fades over time and re-presence (remind them once in a while about what our agreements are) the agreement and ask if they would like to change the agreement when there is an impasse or a problem. If fair terms cannot be agreed on then we agree to discontinue our arrangement.

[HopefulFather]

Yep! Walked into the bathroom this morning to find another stain in the toilet, and not the vomit kind. I'll have to check if she got my text message, because that is beyond ridiculous as a response (to ignore the text about the vomit stain and then go and do that - we have a toilet brush...). She seems to be avoiding me too.

 

I've avoided confrontation because I didn't want to be unreasonable and pedantic (i.e. Sheldon Cooper), but clearly my behaviour has created a big problem for me.

 

Is it worth listing off the things that I'm unhappy about?

- Leaving the bathroom the way she found it

- Turning lights off and locking the front door consistently

- Abiding by our signed agreement for cleaning/guests or notifying me if something comes up where she can't

- Simply acknowledging that she's received a message even if she doesn't want to respond

 

At least then she has an opportunity to air any concerns of her own, or change her behaviour...or leave, if she thinks I'm being unreasonable.

 

I have to give her at least 3 weeks notice unless I tell her specifically what parts of our agreement she's broken. Timing is a bit off at the moment, but I have to say something

 

Nasty and unsanitary to be sure... When you do have your conversation, start with "I feel like .... " this is a non confrontational way to communicate and generally gets results. Listing off the things she does wrong is likely to backfire. Instead I would work on an agreement with the words "we agree on this or that" and write them down so that each of you know what to expect... and at the end write that you agree to discontinue your arrangement if either of you CHOOSE to break your written agreement and give her a copy (I usually as for an initial on the paper to ensure that they do agree).. One more thing be clear with her that words on paper mean nothing if people don't really agree with it, this gives her the opportunity to tell you if she really agrees or not. If she cant agree one mutual terms then you should bite the bullet an start the process of finding the perfect housemate.

[glitterfingers]

Nasty and unsanitary to be sure... When you do have your conversation, start with "I feel like .... " this is a non confrontational way to communicate and generally gets results. Listing off the things she does wrong is likely to backfire. Instead I would work on an agreement with the words "we agree on this or that" and write them down so that each of you know what to expect... and at the end write that you agree to discontinue your arrangement if either of you CHOOSE to break your written agreement and give her a copy (I usually as for an initial on the paper to ensure that they do agree).. One more thing be clear with her that words on paper mean nothing if people don't really agree with it, this gives her the opportunity to tell you if she really agrees or not. If she cant agree one mutual terms then you should bite the bullet an start the process of finding the perfect housemate.

 

Thanks, and I agree. I need to put things in perspective. Bathroom/bathmat trampled with dirt again this morning. No response to my text messages, and schedules mean neither of us are home/awake at the same time. I'm going to have to figure out how to say "I feel really disrespected, we've agreed to X and Y has occurred, here are the things I would like us to agree on moving forward (if she thinks they are reasonable standards), if this gets broken again then either one of us will need to give the other written notice to vacate the room"

 

I spoke with the tenancy regulators here yesterday and they said I should not rely on our agreement, err on the side of caution and give her 90 days notice... good grief. Mental breakdown, here I come

[glitterfingers]

Once again, thank you to everyone here for the extensive advice and valuable perspectives.

 

Lesson learned: You teach people how to treat you based on what you let them get away with