Opinions: Would you kick out my housemate?

[glitterfingers]

If I were you, I'd ask her to move out because you are really incompatible.

 

If I were her, I'd move out because some of these schedules are funny.

 

Yeah, it's interesting you say that, and yet you do a quick google search or ask basically anyone who has a long history of sharing with people, and there is a plethora of issues with who does what chores and when, bills/rent getting paid on time, noise etc. Usually the only people who don't have issues living with others are the ones who create the issues by way of being too "comfortable" and inconsiderate - messy, noisy, etc. Having agreements is a respectful practice that people who've had to share with others come to appreciate over time. I've had this in many previous places where I've been a subtenant, and they've worked fine because everyone abided by them or notified others when they were having issues with doing so

[glitterfingers]

i think whoever said she may have agreed on the surface for any number of reasons was right. if i was interviewing to determine a compatible roommate, i would deem them convincing if they were proactive about the conditions. so, when i explain the schedules/rules to them, i don't want them to just be saying "great" and "aha, sure". i know what a person genuinely interested in keeping order thinks like. i want them to say things like

 

i would love to simplify chores by following a routine, however i have XYZ responsibilities that may prevent me from doing certain things at certain times. the laundry schedule i may not be able to follow to a t, but what i can suggest is to keep my laundry bag in my room before i do it, buy my own drying rack for my room (and if you are concerned the humidity will bring mold, i can get a silent portable dehumidifier for my room). alternatively, if i have missed my time-slot for washing it at home, i can take it to SpeedQueen; there's always extra room in the machine so i could take yours as well.

 

I'm away with family during the weekends and sometimes i leave immediately after work on friday, so i will always have my laundry/trash/dishes taken care of by thursday night at the latest, so that you're not left tidying my stuff on the weekend. i may not immediately replace a used up bottle of window cleaner, but i will replenish detergents and trash bags on mondays when i do my big grocery haul.

 

I'm out of the house from 4 am until late in the evening often, so you may walk in to find the trash still here, or a messy kitchen, but what i never do is turn in for the night without doing the dishes, wiping the counter and taking the trash out, so that you don't have to go through a pile of crap in the morning to make coffee.

 

people can seem agreeable and even submissive by saying yes to everything, but those who genuinely share the same interest (such as order and cleanliness) are already thinking up ways to make it work.

 

Yeah. Maybe I am overreacting. It might just be a life experience/maturity thing rather than disrespect. She probably did agree without realising it would take work to maintain her side of things. I'm 100% ok with negotiation if something I've suggested seems unreasonable, and I asked her several times if it did. She seems pretty happy with the place though

 

It would make sense that she was unable to conceptualise and meet her obligations for lack of thorough understanding of what that requires of her

 

You are always a gem, Rainy!

[RainyCoast]

i'd cohabitate with you in a heartbeat. a large noticeboard for schedules and printable routines and all lol. and i buy the marseille soap scented cleaner too

[glitterfingers]

i'd cohabitate with you in a heartbeat. a large noticeboard for schedules and printable routines and all lol. and i buy the marseille soap scented cleaner too

 

Haha. Yeah, I buy all the nice scented cleaners and coordinate furniture, soap dispensers, tea towels, bathmat, placemats etc. It's a very female-friendly place! Just takes a bit of upkeep - part of the package

[seanryder]

The expression......'the tail wagging the dog' comes to mind.

 

You need to take control. You after all are the named leaseholder. Either she plays by your reasonable rules or she gets a new place to live.

[Seraphim]

Haha. Yeah, I buy all the nice scented cleaners and coordinate furniture, soap dispensers, tea towels, bathmat, placemats etc. It's a very female-friendly place! Just takes a bit of upkeep - part of the package

Can I come live there too? My boys are totally utilitarian and any " froufrouness" as they call it is unnecessary. Sniffle...😭

[RainyCoast]

i'm under the impression a lot of people think that neat freaks are necessarily very anal retentive, which doesn't have to be the case. a relaxed, mañana person can live with a neat freak, but there has to be some reciprocation or effort.

 

for example, i've had roommates who never cleaned, but loved them because what they also didn't do is leave a mess or make things harder for me. they were usually out of the house a great deal, so basically didn't get around to creating a huge mess in the first place. at worst, they'd leave a coffemug or two in the sink, and i'd gladly wash it. they never left a gross bathroom, stuff on the floor, in the way, or gooed up surfaces. they were quiet and considerate and friendly. so yeah, i did all the cleaning but it basically was the same amount of cleaning i'd be doing if i were living alone. really nice girls, it was poetry.

 

an ex though...omg. you could literally have seven maids mopping and picking up after him and you'd still be tripping over his muddy shoes in the middle of the living room carpet, and every single time you entered the kitchen, even if you had just cleaned it half an hour ago and he only went to "grab a bite", you'd need a bulldozer to get through the crap he left everywhere, and wash 47 pieces of dishes and cutlery (how??? does he have a large company of invisible trolls eating with him???) just to get to a single clean cup. eff that.

 

you don't have to be anal. we'll adjust, you can be chill. you just can't live with someone and leave them having to do your crap to get to their own crap. show some initiative. busy on the weekdays? okay, i'll go as far doing everything for two during the weekdays, but then will you do the larger stuff on the weekends, like curtains, windows, surfaces...something. and not once a season. consistently.

[goaskalice]

Every time you post you seem to just reassert over and over that you are right and she is wrong.. You do not seem open to hearing anything you could or should do differently... In general most people don't respond well to rules as much as they do respect--

Here is the heart of the issue imo -- there seems to be a perception on your part that your way is the right way- no room for hearing possibility some things your doing could be the issue . You repeatedly refer to her in a way that indicates you see yourself as superior or her, inferior or less than you-- you have said she is not that bright (I don't think that is true but even if it was why do you like to mention that, seems like it's to manipulate how others see her and justify your controlling tactics; you also say she is "defiant " -- she is not your teenage daughter, so referring to her as defiant totally shows your dysfunctional mentality that your above her or how a parent would think of their teenager. You are NOT her parent and she is not your rebellious teenage daughter. You are both equal adults and this won't work unless you can shift your way of thinking of others as being beneath you and that it needs to be your way or the highway-- I don't see any point in any further discussion of this... Either a) part ways if your not willing to see her as an equal and find it in yourself to compromise and collaborate with another adult who is your equal or b) continue to live together and be accepting of the fact that people aren't carbon copies of each other and learn a new way of thinking and interacting that involves the realization she and you are equal and be more humble and flexible, willing to accept that people do things in different ways and unless she is engaging in outright unacceptable ways like doing drugs there, not paying rent, partying etc then just get along

[mustlovedogs]

OP, I appreciate your desire for order. But I think you're taking it too far.

 

Case in point: I lived in a sorority house in college. 35 women, two washers, two dryers.

 

No laundry schedule.

 

We discovered that people would leave their clothes in the machines which was annoying if you were waiting. Solution? Instead of making rules about swap times (be down within 5 minutes or else!!!), we put Expo boards on each machine. You had to write your phone number on the board so someone could text you if they were waiting for you to swap.

 

We gave them 5 minutes to come down. After that, the person waiting could pull out their laundry and set it on top.

 

That was a communication system, and not a rule system. And it worked well.

 

Side note, I'm more type A than not. And this level of control is overwhelming for me. Perhaps it's because you so confidently believe it's the right way and my type A personality thinks there's a better way.

 

Do you get the issue? This means more lax people and more type A people could be bothered by these rules.

 

Why not, instead, have a discussion of past grievances and work *together* on an agreement?

 

I agree with the above that you're just re asserting you're right. Why not respond to this and explore why this may perhaps be a good idea?

[glitterfingers]

Every time you post you seem to just reassert over and over that you are right and she is wrong.. You do not seem open to hearing anything you could or should do differently... In general most people don't respond well to rules as much as they do respect--

Here is the heart of the issue imo -- there seems to be a perception on your part that your way is the right way- no room for hearing possibility some things your doing could be the issue . You repeatedly refer to her in a way that indicates you see yourself as superior or her, inferior or less than you-- you have said she is not that bright (I don't think that is true but even if it was why do you like to mention that, seems like it's to manipulate how others see her and justify your controlling tactics; you also say she is "defiant " -- she is not your teenage daughter, so referring to her as defiant totally shows your dysfunctional mentality that your above her or how a parent would think of their teenager. You are NOT her parent and she is not your rebellious teenage daughter. You are both equal adults and this won't work unless you can shift your way of thinking of others as being beneath you and that it needs to be your way or the highway-- I don't see any point in any further discussion of this... Either a) part ways if your not willing to see her as an equal and find it in yourself to compromise and collaborate with another adult who is your equal or b) continue to live together and be accepting of the fact that people aren't carbon copies of each other and learn a new way of thinking and interacting that involves the realization she and you are equal and be more humble and flexible, willing to accept that people do things in different ways and unless she is engaging in outright unacceptable ways like doing drugs there, not paying rent, partying etc then just get along

 

I would prefer not to bite at this comment, but since people will react to it, I need to note that the implausible part of your post is twofold. One is that you assume I didn't treat her with respect and see her as an equal, which I did at the start until she kept falling through on her responsibilities. The other is that you seem to think it's impossible that she is actually entirely responsible for her own behaviour, knows what is expected of her (as she expects MORE from me than I do from her), and that she still doesn't follow through. Not to mention other interpersonal issues like her talking down to me about a few different things. Yeah, I kinda do think she's in the wrong for those things, otherwise I wouldn't be on this site complaining about it, would I?

[LaHermes]

Glitter.

 

As the principal tenant you are totally entitled to decide on the type of sub-tenant you wish to allow into your home. And by the way you are also entitled to keep your home as clean, tidy and welcoming as you wish. Problem is find a sub-tenant who is on the same page as you. I know you said you did make it clear to this person what the house rules are, and people just say "yes" (it's common!) and do what they like.

 

I am not a tidiness freak by any means but I like orderliness and cleanliness. I simply could not have someone who prefers to live in a tip.

 

Is it tremendously difficult to find sub-tenants, G? I feel that you would do best to look for another "sharer", and hope for a better outcome.

[glitterfingers]

OP, I appreciate your desire for order. But I think you're taking it too far.

 

Case in point: I lived in a sorority house in college. 35 women, two washers, two dryers.

 

No laundry schedule.

 

We discovered that people would leave their clothes in the machines which was annoying if you were waiting. Solution? Instead of making rules about swap times (be down within 5 minutes or else!!!), we put Expo boards on each machine. You had to write your phone number on the board so someone could text you if they were waiting for you to swap.

 

We gave them 5 minutes to come down. After that, the person waiting could pull out their laundry and set it on top.

 

That was a communication system, and not a rule system. And it worked well.

 

Side note, I'm more type A than not. And this level of control is overwhelming for me. Perhaps it's because you so confidently believe it's the right way and my type A personality thinks there's a better way.

 

Do you get the issue? This means more lax people and more type A people could be bothered by these rules.

 

Why not, instead, have a discussion of past grievances and work *together* on an agreement?

 

I agree with the above that you're just re asserting you're right. Why not respond to this and explore why this may perhaps be a good idea?

 

I think the issue is less that there are "rules" and more that they were suggestions and conversations, and because they WEREN'T rules they were really easy to ignore/downplay

 

Let me be very, very clear: I have worked together with her to come to an agreement on all of these things. You seem to agree this is the right approach, yes? That's how I approached it. Her behaviour/responses have been subsequent to that exact approach.

 

I think it's a bit ridiculous for anyone to make me out to be the person at fault when I've approached things openly and ready to negotiate, asked her questions, ensured her input, we've agreed, and then she just decided she couldn't give a flip. She's also come to me asking me to do things, I've done them. This isn't an issue of me taking on an authoritarian role with her. I've said this so many times in this thread that it's not funny, yet you still accuse me of it. It's literally her deciding not to follow through on her side of things after she tells me she wants things done a certain way. I've begun to feel that she's a bit entitled in that sense. And also just perplexed why you keep insisting that I'm dictating her schedule when I've told you so many times what the actual situation is?

 

Maybe I don't come across very well in text, but the people I know in real life have told me my biggest issue is being unassertive, which would really contradict this image that you hold of me being authoritarian...

[mustlovedogs]

I think the issue is less that there are "rules" and more that they were suggestions and conversations, and because they WEREN'T rules they were really easy to ignore/downplay

 

Let me be very, very clear: I have worked together with her to come to an agreement on all of these things. You seem to agree this is the right approach, yes? That's how I approached it. Her behaviour/responses have been subsequent to that exact approach.

 

I think it's a bit ridiculous for anyone to make me out to be the person at fault when I've approached things openly and ready to negotiate, asked her questions, ensured her input, we've agreed, and then she just decided she couldn't give a flip. She's also come to me asking me to do things, I've done them. This isn't an issue of me taking on an authoritarian role with her. I've said this so many times in this thread that it's not funny, yet you still accuse me of it. It's literally her deciding not to follow through on her side of things after she tells me she wants things done a certain way. I've begun to feel that she's a bit entitled in that sense. And also just perplexed why you keep insisting that I'm dictating her schedule when I've told you so many times what the actual situation is?

 

My goodness. You haven't read the points I made earlier then. I said some of what you want is reasonable, but some of the other stuff feels over the top which may make having a roommmate hard.

 

I never said you're entirely at fault.

 

You said in an earlier post that you told her about the laundry schedule upon move in. If she wanted the place, why would she have said anything else other than yes?

 

But that's not my point. My point is simply that I think this is over the top and I'm just asking you to ponder that.

[LaHermes]

I do NOT think you are at fault Glitter. I read your posts.

 

It is just that what people say (i.e. your sub-tenant) just to satisfy you and to get the accommodation, and what his or her intentions are (no intention of complying), are two different things.

 

"and then she just decided she couldn't give a flip. "

 

Indeed IMO getting a sub-tenant and interviewing him or her is as important as a job interview. Did this person bring a reference of any kind from a previous landlord or landlords?

[glitterfingers]

My goodness. You haven't read the points I made earlier then. I said some of what you want is reasonable, but some of the other stuff feels over the top which may make having a roommmate hard.

 

I never said you're entirely at fault.

 

You said in an earlier post that you told her about the laundry schedule upon move in. If she wanted the place, why would she have said anything else other than yes?

 

But that's not my point. My point is simply that I think this is over the top and I'm just asking you to ponder that.

 

I told her about the cleaning schedule prior to moving in as it was a condition that my housemate be okay with that. I only suggested the laundry schedule after she'd been there a few weeks because she told me that she needed to do laundry twice a week and wanted to dry her clothes naturally (if you work it out, it only really leaves me with two days per week where I can do mine). If that is too much, it's only too much in the interest of accommodating her, not in requests. Is it just the laundry schedule that bothers you? Because if you said that you couldn't stick to a schedule, that'd be fine because it means I can do my laundry whenever. What wouldn't be fine is asking me to stick to it but not doing so yourself...

[LaHermes]

"You are a passive-aggressive person.

 

Now THAT is flaming!!

[glitterfingers]

Glitter.

 

As the principal tenant you are totally entitled to decide on the type of sub-tenant you wish to allow into your home. And by the way you are also entitled to keep your home as clean, tidy and welcoming as you wish. Problem is find a sub-tenant who is on the same page as you. I know you said you did make it clear to this person what the house rules are, and people just say "yes" (it's common!) and do what they like.

 

I am not a tidiness freak by any means but I like orderliness and cleanliness. I simply could not have someone who prefers to live in a tip.

 

Is it tremendously difficult to find sub-tenants, G? I feel that you would do best to look for another "sharer", and hope for a better outcome.

 

It was a bit hard to find a subtenant because I live next to my university, so I was getting a lot of international students coming through - all really lovely, but potentially move out for 3-4 mths a year over uni breaks and don't pay rent. It could take me 4-6 weeks to replace this tenant - my biggest issue is the moral dilemma. Is she really being disrespectful? If so, that seems grounds for asking her to leave. But if she's clueless and wants to improve on some things, that's a different issue.

 

I do NOT think you are at fault Glitter. I read your posts.

 

It is just that what people say (i.e. your sub-tenant) just to satisfy you and to get the accommodation, and what his or her intentions are (no intention of complying), are two different things.

 

"and then she just decided she couldn't give a flip. "

 

Indeed IMO getting a sub-tenant and interviewing him or her is as important as a job interview. Did this person bring a reference of any kind from a previous landlord or landlords?

 

I didn't ask her for a reference. Tried to make things as easy and laid back as possible. We only have a written agreement because it's required by law, so in that agreement I had to put terms that we agree on such as mutual comfort and keeping the peace both with each other and with neighbours. Maybe she just ignored that stuff - honestly, I've had some pretty bad neighbours in the past, so I know a lot of people don't take their rental agreements seriously

[glitterfingers]

"You are a passive-aggressive person.

 

Now THAT is flaming!!

 

Might have to avoid making threads in the future as I do tend to get flamed a bit

[LaHermes]

Glitter.

 

"I naively hold a belief that if you treat people with respect and trust then they are significantly more likely to act in a way that is consistent with this.

"

 

You'd imagine it should be like that, G, but it generally isn't.....

[RainyCoast]

I told her about the cleaning schedule prior to moving in as it was a condition that my housemate be okay with that. I only suggested the laundry schedule after she'd been there a few weeks because she told me that she needed to do laundry twice a week and wanted to dry her clothes naturally (if you work it out, it only really leaves me with two days per week where I can do mine). If that is too much, it's only too much in the interest of accommodating her, not in requests. Is it just the laundry schedule that bothers you? Because if you said that you couldn't stick to a schedule, that'd be fine because it means I can do my laundry whenever. What wouldn't be fine is asking me to stick to it but not doing so yourself...

yeah i see replies saying you can't tell a grown person when to do their laundry. true, they can do their laundry never, if that's how they like it. but if they leave you with a short window to do yours in, preferably when you're the one with other responsibilities, or they then decide to hog the machine and clothes line at that time (i gather something like this is the case), they're dictating your schedule tbh.

[sophie274]

I think the point of most of the replies is actually that two reasonable people can have reasonably different ideas about what it means to be a housemate and share a home, and have different attitudes towards it. Rules can certainly make logistics easier, but as itsallgrand said a few pages back, when a home is so regimented, it might not feel like home to some people.

 

Since it's clear you two are not a match, and since the situation has deteriorated to the point where you essentially no longer respect her, then I think the solution is for you to ask her to move out. She doesn't have to be a terrible, immoral person for you to do that. Just give her plenty of time to find a new place.

 

I do think it might be difficult for you to find an agreeable housemate. In my years of sharing spaces, we never had any agreements about much of anything at all. As long as the rent was paid on time and people didn't leave horrible messes in the common areas, it was live and let live.

[BeenThereB4]

"You are a passive-aggressive person.

 

Now THAT is flaming!!

 

Hardly! I merely used bolded text because that is what OP has been using throughout this thread. I was emphasising that both she and her roommate are contributing to this less than ideal situation.

[Bunney]

I'm really curious as to why you dont have 2 drying racks, one for each of you. That'd make the laundry thing a loooot easier.

 

For the past 8 months I've lived with 3 other people (my bf, our roommate & our roommates gf) and our washing machine is in use almost daily. We've NEVER had a problem because each couple has their own drying racks. That way we even make laundry on the same day from time to time, with no problems at all.

[irishapple]

To be honest this post would make me think twice before living with a Stepford wife

 

Just drop all the schedules and sit down and crack open a bottle of wine and say look I want this to work out and tell her if she gets a chance to chip in with the house workl

[Seraphim]

I would find a roommate that meshes with you