What makes a man go back to an abusive woman?

[CharlieGurl]

He likes projects, possibly due to being codependent and/or playing a similar role in his earlier years. This he wants the satisfaction of having "saved" or "fixed" somebody and gets worth from this.

 

Of course this is great in theory, never works in practice.

 

This is my theory. My stepfather has been running on this precise hamster wheel for 40 years now with my mother. It's mind-boggling to me.

 

That's an interesting perspective. I think people in this kind of situation, like you said, attach their self worth to these kinds of people when they are in a period of time when they're not being abusive...whether that's a few hours or a few months. They might think "wow, she has changed/bettered herself/stopped abusing me because I'm really worth it to her". I don't think it's conscious but I think it happens for sure.

 

And he was definitely a fixer - he was always fixing stuff for me, doing things for me, trying to help with things like dishes, changing my tires, taking my garbage out or whatever. I definitely see how he could get his self worth from fixing or feeling needed. Maybe I wasn't needy enough for him.

[boltnrun]

My ex boyfriend loved it when his ex verbally abused him. It made him feel loved. He even liked it when she cheated on him because (in his mind), when she came back to him it proved that he was better than the guy she cheated with. He felt worthless so having someone tell him he's worthless proved to him that he was right. BUT, if he could get her to love him again it proved he WAS lovable after all. I know this is very circular but it's the way he thinks.

 

He dumped me because I was loyal, stable, drama-free and reliable. BORING!!! He needed a challenge, someone he could GET to love him...not someone who already did.

 

He dumped me for a woman who lies, cheats, verbally abuses him and punches him whenever he makes her mad. She even burned his house down when he made her mad. And he's absolutely devoted to her.

 

Do you really want a man with a sick mind to love you? If he did, what would that say about you?

[reinventmyself]

My ex boyfriend loved it when his ex verbally abused him. It made him feel loved. He even liked it when she cheated on him because (in his mind), when she came back to him it proved that he was better than the guy she cheated with. He felt worthless so having someone tell him he's worthless proved to him that he was right. BUT, if he could get her to love him again it proved he WAS lovable after all. I know this is very circular but it's the way he thinks.

 

He dumped me because I was loyal, stable, drama-free and reliable. BORING!!! He needed a challenge, someone he could GET to love him...not someone who already did.

 

He dumped me for a woman who lies, cheats, verbally abuses him and punches him whenever he makes her mad. She even burned his house down when he made her mad. And he's absolutely devoted to her.

 

Do you really want a man with a sick mind to love you? If he did, what would that say about you?

ok. . I may never date again!

Seriously?. . It's that what we are here for? So other people can exercise their bs out on us.

Sorry, just having a little moment here.

I just don't know anymore.

[boltnrun]

ok. . I may never date again!

Seriously?. . It's that what we are here for? So other people can exercise their bs out on us.

Sorry, just having a little moment here.

I just don't know anymore.

 

THAT guy is sick. But I've met plenty of people who aren't.

 

The secret is to avoid those who show signs of sickness. Or who claim to be "over" someone but can't stop talking about them.

[CharlieGurl]

Wow that is extreme. WOW. Did he actually tell you all this? That he liked it when all this happened? On a much milder level that does seem to be similar to my ex.

 

For his sake, I do hope that it's not as bad as all that and that one day he figures out that he can do better. I still can't see him as a "bad" guy even though his choices are bad. No one deserves to feel that badly about themselves. I dunno. It's so crazy.

[boltnrun]

Wow that is extreme. WOW. Did he actually tell you all this? That he liked it when all this happened? On a much milder level that does seem to be similar to my ex.

 

For his sake, I do hope that it's not as bad as all that and that one day he figures out that he can do better. I still can't see him as a "bad" guy even though his choices are bad. No one deserves to feel that badly about themselves. I dunno. It's so crazy.

 

That kind of reminds me of those mothers interviewed on TV after their child commits an armed robbery..."he's not BAD, he just made a bad decision!!!" Well, good people don't make those kinds of decisions.

 

And healthy people don't deliberately attach themselves to abusers. Unhealthy people do.

 

So, he's not "bad". However, he IS emotionally or mentally unhealthy.

 

So what can he do? He can get himself help. Except, he doesn't want help, because he believes happiness lies with her.

 

And yes, indirectly my ex told me. He told me once that he needed me to be more forceful with him and that I needed to b*tch at him, because it would keep him in line. He also told me about his ex breaking his car windshield, trying to burn his house down, trying to run him down with her car, and randomly pepper spraying him when he did something she didn't like. He said "I had no idea she LOVED me so much!!!" He said she just loved him so much she lost control of herself. And then he complained that since I never did any of those things, I must not really love him. Yep, true story.

[Ms Darcy]

There's been a lot of talk on this thread about his addiction to drama, his inability to break free of a toxic relationship etc. I don't disagree with any of that. But the more I read here, the more I see you say over and over that you know what to do, yet you REFUSE to do it... makes me feel like you are addicted to this drama as well. I have no idea what sort of emotional payoff you're getting from this, but there must be something. How many times are you going to ask for advice you aren't willing to take?

 

I agree with this.

 

To be fair, there is a great deal more responsiveness to the posters who are in denial about a breakup and/or don't block the ex. At least one payoff is attention and the ability to keep sharing one's misery.

 

Which is a normal reaction, by the way.

[CharlieGurl]

I agree with this.

 

To be fair, there is a great deal more responsiveness to the posters who are in denial about a breakup and/or don't block the ex. At least one payoff is attention and the ability to keep sharing one's misery.

 

Which is a normal reaction, by the way.

 

I don't know if that's fair. I'm not looking for attention, I'm just doing what I can to cope and for me that's always been talking about it. It's just how I am. I write about it. I have an obsessive personality and have a journal to write all my obsessive thoughts in so I can get them out instead of just having them floating around in my head.

 

I do appreciate, very much, that people are helping me...even if they feel like they're not. As I've said, I've read and reread my posts and responses here in order to try to get things to sink in more.

 

I think people deal in different ways, and I'm sure most people have dealt with things in their lives that they're not proud of. Trust me, I WISH I could just find whatever it is I need to shut this all off. I have contemplated medication because I know it's not healthy to be this way.

 

I'm sorry that you see it as just wanting to share my misery...you're entitled to your opinion, of course, but it's not how I see it at all.

[CharlieGurl]

That kind of reminds me of those mothers interviewed on TV after their child commits an armed robbery..."he's not BAD, he just made a bad decision!!!" Well, good people don't make those kinds of decisions.

 

 

You don't think good people make bad decisions for themselves? I believe I'm a good person and I was in a toxic relationship for 2 years before I finally realized I had to be the one to end it. I believe he made a bad decision to stay and years of this has messed up his self-esteem. His ex-wife told me, before I knew him, that she hoped he would finally leave this woman and be the person they all remembered him to be.

 

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You're right. He does, for whatever reason, believe his happiness lies with her. I know that's the only part I need to understand.

[lostlove76]

I think he's a bad person for what he did to YOU. I'm using the word "bad" to equal insensitive, careless, selfish, and manipulative. He urged you into a relationship when you hesitated, made you feel like everything was good for a couple of months, started to shut down and insisted that nothing was wrong, and then dumped you to go back to her. Sorry to be so blunt and harsh, but I would just be more angry if I were you, and wouldn't be feeling at all sorry for him. If he wants to hurt only himself by being in a toxic relationship, fine. But to drag someone else in as the rebound is not okay.

 

ETA: I'm probably being somewhat hypocritical with my harshness, since I felt sorry for my ex and made every excuse under the sun for him. It's just easier to see things from the outside looking in, because you're not emotionally tied up in it, and you don't love the person (or even know them). To me, on the outside, I think you should be so much angrier. But I do get how you feel.

[CharlieGurl]

I think he's a bad person for what he did to YOU. I'm using the word "bad" to equal insensitive, careless, selfish, and manipulative. He urged you into a relationship when you hesitated, made you feel like everything was good for a couple of months, started to shut down and insisted that nothing was wrong, and then dumped you to go back to her. Sorry to be so blunt and harsh, but I would just be more angry if I were you, and wouldn't be feeling at all sorry for him. If he wants to hurt only himself by being in a toxic relationship, fine. But to drag someone else in as the rebound is not okay.

 

ETA: I'm probably being somewhat hypocritical with my harshness, since I felt sorry for my ex and made every excuse under the sun for him. It's just easier to see things from the outside looking in, because you're not emotionally tied up in it, and you don't love the person (or even know them). To me, on the outside, I think you should be so much angrier. But I do get how you feel.

 

There have been times when I agree with this and do get angry and think he's an a**hole, but most of the time I have a hard time staying in that angry place. It's very difficult for me to believe he only used me until he could go back to her...if SHE had been the one to end it, I might think otherwise. But because he ended it and he showed me the texts that she sent him (before we were dating) and the responses he sent her, I truly believed that he wanted it to be over. I don't know at which point that changed.

[Hollyj]

You don't think good people make bad decisions for themselves? I believe I'm a good person and I was in a toxic relationship for 2 years before I finally realized I had to be the one to end it. I believe he made a bad decision to stay and years of this has messed up his self-esteem. His ex-wife told me, before I knew him, that she hoped he would finally leave this woman and be the person they all remembered him to be.

 

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You're right. He does, for whatever reason, believe his happiness lies with her. I know that's the only part I need to understand.

 

One can make a bad decision once, but this is over and over. Your ex is screwed up. he thrives on drama. You are putting was too much energy into some messed up guy you dated for two months. Why aren't you angry he dumped you for another? And, to think you are jeopardizing your school and career for this loser. Yikes!

 

You need to focus on what attracted you to the dynamic and why you are obsessing over him.

[lostlove76]

There have been times when I agree with this and do get angry and think he's an a**hole, but most of the time I have a hard time staying in that angry place. It's very difficult for me to believe he only used me until he could go back to her...if SHE had been the one to end it, I might think otherwise. But because he ended it and he showed me the texts that she sent him (before we were dating) and the responses he sent her, I truly believed that he wanted it to be over. I don't know at which point that changed.

 

Maybe it wasn't so much intentional as it was careless and selfish. He broke up with her, thinking it was the right thing for him, and then started something new with you. He should have taken the time to consider that he wasn't over her and wasn't ready for a new relationship, and that someone (you) could get hurt. But he didn't do that, he just proceeded without caution. And then at some point two months later, something did change to make him want to go back with her, and he denied it when you asked if something was up. And then he dropped you for her, which he didn't have to do. And now he's texting you so that he doesn't have to feel like the bad guy. Doesn't mean that any of this is conscious and purposeful -- just, like I said, careless and selfish.

[Hollyj]

How often did she come up in convo while you were dating? Did you feel that you needed to support him emotionally?

[lostlove76]

To add to my above post....

 

I have no doubt that he really likes you and cares for you. He's probably texting you because he enjoys talking to you and doesn't want to lose your friendship (in addition to not wanting to feel like the bad guy, and possibly keeping you on the hook as a backup for the inevitable next time he breaks up with her and wants someone to help fill the void). But he's having his cake and eating it too, here (selfish). He gets to be with her and have all the drama, and he also gets to maintain a friendship with you. Why does he deserve that after what he did? He made his choice. He shouldn't get to keep a part of what he had with you, while not actually being with you.

[CharlieGurl]

One can make a bad decision once, but this is over and over. Your ex is screwed up. he thrives on drama. You are putting was too much energy into some messed up guy you dated for two months. Why aren't you angry he dumped you for another? And, to think you are jeopardizing your school and career for this loser. Yikes!

 

You need to focus on what attracted you to the dynamic and why you are obsessing over him.

 

I agree that I am spending too much time obsessing about this....but I am in no way jeopardizing my school or career over him. I have maintained a 4.0 average throughout and my second semester of 4 is over next week. I'm proud that I haven't let it affect that.

 

To be honest, I think it was a "perfect storm" as they say. We were both needing something that we got out of each other - he wanted to move on from his ex, and I was incredibly lonely and so grateful for the company. We spent a lot of time together in those 2 months and it was pretty intense - hard not to get myself caught up in it. And now I feel l'm obsessing because I'm back to how I felt before and it's making me wish that things were still where they were with him a month ago.

[CharlieGurl]

How often did she come up in convo while you were dating? Did you feel that you needed to support him emotionally?

 

Not at all. We talked about her at first, before we started dating. And a little bit at the start...I guess I was trying to gauge if he was ready to be in something. Also, I just wasn't expecting to fall so hard. I have dated guys where things were light and fluffy and perfect for what I needed at the time. I had no idea this was going to turn into what it did. After we started dating, he wouldn't talk about her at all. He did mention his ex-wife a few times as they were in court about some government cheque but once that was over, he never mentioned her either. I can't explain how well he treated me when we were dating and how much he seemed to like me and want to do with me and for me. I have dated a lot of guys but never felt quite this important to someone so quickly. Perhaps that in itself was a red flag, but I just figured it was because of the close proximity and how much time we spent together.

[CharlieGurl]

To add to my above post....

 

I have no doubt that he really likes you and cares for you. He's probably texting you because he enjoys talking to you and doesn't want to lose your friendship (in addition to not wanting to feel like the bad guy, and possibly keeping you on the hook as a backup for the inevitable next time he breaks up with her and wants someone to help fill the void). But he's having his cake and eating it too, here (selfish). He gets to be with her and have all the drama, and he also gets to maintain a friendship with you. Why does he deserve that after what he did? He made his choice. He shouldn't get to keep a part of what he had with you, while not actually being with you.

 

I agree. He shouldn't get both. I haven't heard from him since Monday. I'm sure the texts from him won't keep up now.

[lostlove76]

I agree. He shouldn't get both. I haven't heard from him since Monday. I'm sure the texts from him won't keep up now.

 

Be prepared to possibly feel worse if he doesn't keep texting regularly. I felt worse when mine quit trying to call (although I was ignoring him, not having nice conversations. I still wanted him to keep calling, because it felt like be cared). When he stopped, it was a big letdown. But now I'm "over it" (as much as I can be) -- not over him or the hurt or any of those things, but over waiting for him to call, because I know he's not going to. So if you start missing the texts, just know that you will come out the other side and it will be okay.

[gypsybird87]

I don't know if that's fair. I'm not looking for attention, I'm just doing what I can to cope and for me that's always been talking about it. It's just how I am. I write about it. I have an obsessive personality and have a journal to write all my obsessive thoughts in so I can get them out instead of just having them floating around in my head.

 

I do appreciate, very much, that people are helping me...even if they feel like they're not. As I've said, I've read and reread my posts and responses here in order to try to get things to sink in more.

 

I think people deal in different ways, and I'm sure most people have dealt with things in their lives that they're not proud of. Trust me, I WISH I could just find whatever it is I need to shut this all off. I have contemplated medication because I know it's not healthy to be this way.

 

I'm sorry that you see it as just wanting to share my misery...you're entitled to your opinion, of course, but it's not how I see it at all.

 

Continually talking about something keeps us feeling connected to said thing/person/activity/whatever. It's part of the initial process of denial in not wanting the relationship to be over. We cling to anything that makes us feel like it is still an active part of our life, not something that is OVER and done. Totally normal and understandable. But this thread reveals two things:

 

- You are stuck in this stage for much longer than you should be over a two month relationship. I think this is partly because of the obsessive personality you mention having, and partly because you were very lonely in your new place, and you latched onto this guy in a really profound and frankly unhealthy way.

 

- You continue to ask HOW to get past this, not think about him etc. You've been given solid advice, repeatedly. You persist in ignoring that advice, and continue asking for help and telling us how unhappy you are. That is what makes it seem like attention-seeking, and eventually the patience and sympathy for that activity will begin to wane.

 

We are here for you, charliegurl. I think we've all proved that. But we can't help you unless you choose to help yourself by taking the advice given, and taking some action. As I told you long ago on your other thread, emotional healing requires an act of will. All the knowledge and insight you've been given here means nothing if you don't choose to use it.

[CharlieGurl]

Be prepared to possibly feel worse if he doesn't keep texting regularly. I felt worse when mine quit trying to call (although I was ignoring him, not having nice conversations. I still wanted him to keep calling, because it felt like be cared). When he stopped, it was a big letdown. But now I'm "over it" (as much as I can be) -- not over him or the hurt or any of those things, but over waiting for him to call, because I know he's not going to. So if you start missing the texts, just know that you will come out the other side and it will be okay.

 

Thank you. I don't expect any of the steps of this to be easy and I know I'll make it out. I've done it before, I'll do it again. It's just so hard to go back to the life I was living before him. I was just so incredibly lonely.

[boltnrun]

You don't think good people make bad decisions for themselves? I believe I'm a good person and I was in a toxic relationship for 2 years before I finally realized I had to be the one to end it. I believe he made a bad decision to stay and years of this has messed up his self-esteem. His ex-wife told me, before I knew him, that she hoped he would finally leave this woman and be the person they all remembered him to be.

 

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You're right. He does, for whatever reason, believe his happiness lies with her. I know that's the only part I need to understand.

 

I think UNHEALTHY people make bad decisions for themselves. Healthy people would leave as soon as they see signs that the other person is going to do them some kind of damage.

 

I stayed in an unhealthy relationship (with the aforementioned ex) because I was emotionally unhealthy. I had been seeing a man who pulled a slow fade on me, the man I'd dated before that dumped me, and I was lonely and feeling unlovable. I WANTED to believe this guy loved me, and since he told me he did I leaped on his words and ignored his actions. Two months in, he was interacting with his ex and, instead of realizing he was still attached to her, I stayed hoping he'd eventually pick me. And that was because I didn't feel good enough about myself and my situation to make good choices.

 

And you're right, regardless of WHY he chooses her, he did and he does. Trying to figure out "why" will do nothing but have you mentally running in circles, torturing yourself.

[Batya33]

Why? Because in general people move towards pleasure and away from pain. Being with her gives him more pleasure than being with you -nothing personal about you - just whatever it means to him to feel pleasure, he feels it with her -like that song "hurts so good".

[CharlieGurl]

Why? Because in general people move towards pleasure and away from pain. Being with her gives him more pleasure than being with you -nothing personal about you - just whatever it means to him to feel pleasure, he feels it with her -like that song "hurts so good".

 

hmm. yeah, maybe. I think it's really hard to say...this is all speculation which is what drives me crazy. We will never know the real details. And i suppose I don't have to in order to move on. It's just been really hard. I'll be okay.

[boltnrun]

If you feel like you "have to" know why, you'll end up feeling exactly as you do right now forever.

 

Not an appealing prospect, I presume.

 

You do know what to do to move on. The real question is...does it mean more to you to maintain some kind of connection to him, no matter how painful and negative? Or does it mean more to you to feel positive and healthy?