is it rape?

[oregonstatestu]

I'm a sophmore in college, and pretty shy. I joined a sorority and adopted a party girl attitude because drinking gave me confidence. never drank before college, so i have found myself in some terribly dangerous situations. I really need some advice though... for the past two years i have been blowing off the seven cases of "rape" where I was so drunk I was either immobile, puking, and most definitely blacked out. Each story is very similar... end up blacked out, wake up in the guys bed or am told we had sex. All these guys are people I wouldn't have sex with sober, and its terrifying to me because i don't remember ANYTHING. Not the initiation, or the act. I've been pushing this to the back of my mind because even my friends blew it off as no big deal, but the question of "is it really rape" keeps popping into my head. Any advice would be helpful... not sure if i should keep ignoring it since i don't remember it it doesn't effect me to much, or if i should talk to someone.

Also i have stopped blacking out, not to worry i am not an alcoholic just didn't know limits and am very tiny.

[Itchy]

I don't know what the law states where you are but in some cases the law in various countries I believe states that any man or women under the influence of narcotics or alcohol cannot possibly give their consent.

 

What I find most shocking about this is that has happened more than once and you're down playing these incidents like they're unimportant, you are displaying reckless behaviour, you have no regard for your own safety and sexual health. I do think you need counselling, I also think you need to get new friends, you need to stop drinking alcohol and you need to go and get some sexually transmitted infection tests carried out.

[Wolfshook]

You should stop drinking.

[Billie28]

In a court room, it would come down to whether the sex was consensual or not. The fact that these guys you woke up with said you had sex, simply means sexual intercourse happened. It's your word against theirs as to if consent was given.

 

Just because you know you wouldn't have sex with these guys when sober does not mean you didn't give consent.

Alcohol reduces ones inhibitions. You might even be shocked at your own behaviour if it was recorded and you watched while sober.

 

No one can say you were raped. Under the influence you may have given consent, rendered unable to say no etc

 

My ex bf used to amaze me with his black outs while under the influence. The day after a night out, I would realise on chatting that he had zero recollection of the night before from about 2 hours into the night even though we would have been out drinking for 8 hours or more. In that whole 8 hours, he would only remember the first 2, yet behaved and acted in a very coherent manner for the remaining 6 yet have no recollection of those 6 hrs.

 

Firstly, you need to get tested for std's. Secondly you need to make sure if you go out drinking that you have a female friend you can rely on to go home with. You also need to make sure that friends are aware of your black outs.

You should make a habit of having water as every second drink. Become aware of your limits and when you black out.

 

Were you raped? Only the men you woke up with can answer that. If you asked them, they of course will all say no.

 

No one can answer your question.

 

All you can do, is prevent the likelihood of it happening.

 

If alcohol causes you to be unaware of your actions, how can you expect another to interpret them?

 

A gentleman won't sleep with a girl on first meet if she is under the influence. But not all men are gentlemen. If you say yes while under the influence and the guy you are with is under the influence, can you really declare it as rape? No.

[SherrySher]

This would be a very tough one to prove as rape. Obviously it has to be consensual, though you might have consented at the time and had no idea being blacked out, and the guys might have not had any clue that you weren't in your right mind.

You are doing self harm, that is for sure, and you cannot handle your alcohol. You need to do what is right for your own well being and for your safety. Stop drinking to the point of not being able to take care of yourself and not being able to make proper decisions for yourself. You have been lucky so far in not ending up with someone who didn't seriously hurt you, like attempt to choke you or something scary like that. But it could happen. You need to be better to yourself, and far far more safer.

I will tell you that last summer, a girl in her 20's was murdered around my area. She went out with friends, but she ended up flirting and carrying on with a guy and drank till she blacked out. She got separated from her friends, and this guy drove her to the country where he and a few of his male friends met up. They repeatidly raped her and ended up murdering her. I tell you this to scare you...because it DOES happen, and I don't want to see any more women lose their lives over something like this. Please..be better to yourself and be more careful. Know your limits and stop drinking when you've reached them. Being as you're tiny, 2-3 drinks sounds about enough.

[Billie28]

I don't know what the law states where you are but in some cases the law in various countries I believe states that any man or women under the influence of narcotics or alcohol cannot possibly give their consent.

 

What I find most shocking about this is that has happened more than once and you're down playing these incidents like they're unimportant, you are displaying reckless behaviour, you have no regard for your own safety and sexual health. I do think you need counselling, I also think you need to get new friends, you need to stop drinking alcohol and you need to go and get some sexually transmitted infection tests carried out.

 

What's important to realise in this statement is that it says any man or woman.

My guess is that the men this girl wakes up to were also under the influence. They might wake up and remember having sex, they were also influenced by alcohol. In the morning they might also think, you are a girl they wouldn't have sex with while sober.

Who raped who? The one that remembers or the one that doesn't ?

 

When alcohol comes into the equation, neithers word counts.

 

If you want to behave as you would sober, stay sober.

[Itchy]

What's important to realise in this statement is that it says any man or woman.

My guess is that the men this girl wakes up to were also under the influence. They might wake up and remember having sex, they were also influenced by alcohol. In the morning they might also think, you are a girl they wouldn't have sex with while sober.

Who raped who? The one that remembers or the one that doesn't ?

 

When alcohol comes into the equation, neithers word counts.

 

If you want to behave as you would sober, stay sober.

 

It's certainly a tough area to cast a judgement. In the UK the statutory definition consists of "whether a complainant had the capacity to consent to make a choice about whether or not to take part in the sexual activity at the time in question" and "Whether he or she was in a position to make that choice freely, and was not constrained in any way. Assuming that the complainant had both the freedom and capacity to consent, the crucial question is whether the complainant agrees to the activity by choice." (Source: CPS Legal Guidance). It's very tough to come to a solid conclusion and it seems like it will vary from case to case and you raise many valid points. This is why I think it's important that people watch how much they consume.

[Tinydance]

Well this is a very difficult case to really comment on because there is a lot of grey area there. Technically if someone agrees to have sex with someone else, then it's not rape. It's true that if a person sees that another person is really drunk and/or influenced by drugs, they should do the right thing and not have sex with them.

 

However, if you're in this sorority (I'm from Australia so not sure what being in one entails exactly lol), and there is a lot of partying and drinking going on, then these guys you slept with may have also been drunk and/or on drugs. And as you've realised, sound judgement and common sense is out the window when the person is under the influence of something. So those guys probably weren't thinking very clearly either.

 

Also when young people go to parties, night clubs, bars, etc. there is this notion that people are actually looking to "hook up" and "get laid". So some guys may think that some girls are actually looking for sex at parties, and those guys may have thought you were interested because you were acting like you were in your drunken state.

 

Please don't think you're alone in having been in these situations, I've also been in similar situations before a few times, especially when I was in my late teens and early 20's. I actually agreed to have sex with some people when I was drunk because I thought I was into them in my drunken state, even though I wouldn't have slept with them sober. Although getting yourself into these situations seven times in only two years is something that never happened to me in such a short time and it's a bit extreme.

 

You seem to be in denial about just how dangerous your behaviour is. If you have absolutely no idea what you're doing and don't remember anything later, one time you could actually get violently raped, get STD'S or become pregnant. If you're so out of it that you remember nothing then I'm guessing you're not using protection during sex? You are in control of your own behaviour and you need to be VERY careful. Maybe at least carry condoms in your bag. Also I think you could benefit from seeing a therapist to help you stop drinking. If you can't handle it then it might be the best solution.

[Billie28]

It's certainly a tough area to cast a judgement. In the UK the statutory definition consists of "whether a complainant had the capacity to consent to make a choice about whether or not to take part in the sexual activity at the time in question" and "Whether he or she was in a position to make that choice freely, and was not constrained in any way. Assuming that the complainant had both the freedom and capacity to consent, the crucial question is whether the complainant agrees to the activity by choice." (Source: CPS Legal Guidance). It's very tough to come to a solid conclusion and it seems like it will vary from case to case and you raise many valid points. This is why I think it's important that people watch how much they consume.

 

As a female, I feel sorry for men who have been dragged through the legal system over claimed rape.

I personally know a guy who the police interrogated , removed him from his work place, took his car for forensic evidence, the clothes he wore the night before the apparent rape happened.

Yes he "cheated" on his gf with a girl that was pursuing him, no there was no intercourse, yes semen was produced, yes there was alcohol involved with both parties, I know the truth because this guy was stressed to the max,had zero reason to lie to me.

 

It never went to court, the police dismissed it rightfully so.

 

It was a case of a girl regretting her actions while under the influence.

It came down to his word against hers and hers being invalidated.

 

Luckily for him, his career was not affected but it could have been.

 

If a girl has to question if she was raped, she should be questioning her own behaviour first. If alcohol or any other drug places her in a position where she is incapable of behaving as she would sober, this is what she needs to address.

 

Same applies to men.

[Knot2loud]

Oregonstatestu... You need to grow up and change your party habits now! Use your brain... You're going to end up pregnant, an STD (curable or incurable), hurt, or whatever. You get drunk, you pass out, you have zero control over your surroundings and these guys are going to take advantage of you. You're nothing more than a piece of meat to satisfy their sexual urges. Who knows what's already been done to you while you were passed out.

 

It's really to bad you're in that situation. I really hope you stop what you're doing.

[j.man]

Blacking out doesn't mean you lacked the capacity to consent at the time of the act itself. Blacking out simply means you can't remember. Alcohol inhibits your brain's ability to process long-term memories.

 

Additionally, people black out after different levels of inebriation and no one person even consistently blacks out at the same point. It's quite possible the men who remember having sex with you could have been more inebriated than you.

 

The big takeaway is you shouldn't be drinking the point that you're questioning your capacity period, much less around anyone you don't intimately trust. I worked for about 3 years at OSU when I lived in Oregon. I know for a fact they have counseling services available for students. Please consider it.

[Seraphim]

If you are incapacitated by any means that means no consent was given. Just the fact you were incapacitated means no legal consent could be given. So , yes, without legal consent that means ,yes ,it is rape.

[Cheetarah]

Well, given your user name I'll assume you're in the US. Yes, you were incapacitated and that means you cannot legally consent.

 

It's up to you if you want to see a therapist. It's clearly nagging at you in the back of your head for whatever reason. I don't think it would be a bad idea to see what your university offers in terms of counseling.

[Wiseman2]

Drinking to the point of black-outs is not in your best interest. The problems would be filing a report without a rape kit and no complaining witness testimony because you can't remember anything. Definitely get counselling about this utterly self destructive/ low self esteem behavior as well as testing for stds

Each story is very similar...end up blacked out, wake up in the guys bed or am told we had sex. i don't remember ANYTHING

[Doc Blaze]

Maybe it was, but you have a lot of things going against you.

 

 

my advice would be to seek out someone you can talk to.

 

 

get new friends, real friends

 

stop drinking completely. you might not be an alcoholic but your

decision under the influence are getting you in very bad situations,

you even said it yourself.

[awmd]

It's too much of a grey area. You claim you were black out drunk. And might have well been. But people use that excuse all the time when they do something they regret in the morning.

If you were drunk, and your partner was drunk. Who's to blame? All things being equal which they should be according to the law. You both raped each other.

It's unfortunate that this type of thing happens. And no one deserves to be raped. But one should stay in control of there body then this wouldn't be an issue.

Will people still be raped? Of course. There are alot of sick people out there.

However, being "black out drunk" and regretting that you slept with someone the night before is no reason to ruin someone's life.

[oregonstatestu]

However, being "black out drunk" and regretting that you slept with someone the night before is no reason to ruin someone's life.

 

i would never ever ruin someones life over it, i just wanted to know if what happened to me was considered rape, so i could maybe get some help understanding the situations. I honestly think that being blacked out drunk and then going to court is dumb, i am focusing on me not them.

[Billie28]

i would never ever ruin someones life over it, i just wanted to know if what happened to me was considered rape, so i could maybe get some help understanding the situations. I honestly think that being blacked out drunk and then going to court is dumb, i am focusing on me not them.

 

You would never ever ruin someone's life over it?

You are potentially ruining yours!

STD's, risk of infertility, pregnancy without knowing who the father is, pregnancy possibly ending your education, death.

 

You are right to focus on you. I hope you continue to.

[Wiseman2]

You can get help and understanding, no matter what. I agree focus on yourself, what is happening with you etc. I understand you may feel influenced by the legal concepts of date-rape and informed consent, but the focus should be binge drinking to the point of not knowing where you're waking up, with whom and what happened. That in itself is terrifying.

so i could maybe get some help understanding the situations.

[reinventmyself]

i have been blowing off the seven cases of "rape" where I was so drunk

 

Outside of whether consent was given . .if you were to pursue any legal action I am afraid your culpability will be in question.

 

I see you mentioned you have curtailed your drinking and yes, you are putting yourself in serious danger and therefore have personal responsibility.