K's Dating Journal

[faraday]

Do you think it's possible to recognize this earlier in dating? When you met him, he was still living with his ex. Maybe at some point (when you're not as sad) read through your journal to the beginning when you met him, so that you can see if there were any red flags you might have overlook in your initial enthusiasm for him.

 

 

______________________

Learn to be all that you are, and accept with good grace all that you are not.

[faraday]

And, I want to make this separate...I'm sorry. Break ups suck

 

You're doing the right things though in your life- keep on your path...taking meds, exercising, eating right, finding hobbies...you'll be okay.

 

 

______________________

Learn to be all that you are, and accept with good grace all that you are not.

[WithLove]

Do you think it's possible to recognize this earlier in dating? When you met him, he was still living with his ex. Maybe at some point (when you're not as sad) read through your journal to the beginning when you met him, so that you can see if there were any red flags you might have overlook in your initial enthusiasm for him.

 

 

______________________

Learn to be all that you are, and accept with good grace all that you are not.

 

No, because some people aren't aware they are waving flags at all. I asked him if he thought he would be ready for a long term relationship and he said "I hoped I would, with you. I really wanted to try."

 

I think with some people, red flags are easier to spot. With him, what you and other perceived to be a red flag was just a yellow one for me, because he did have plans in motion to remedy his situation. Yes, timing was a factor in this - which is why it didn't work out - but I don't regret meeting and dating him.

 

I will miss his friends. A lot. I want to message his best friend, Ted. He became a dear friend to me. I want to tell him "I'm sorry", but I don't know what I'd be apologizing for. But, he was J's friend first and foremost. I won't put J's friends in the middle.

[WithLove]

I'm tired. I'm starting to get weepy. Work needs to end so I can get out of here and go home and mope.

[notalady]

No, because some people aren't aware they are waving flags at all. I asked him if he thought he would be ready for a long term relationship and he said "I hoped I would, with you. I really wanted to try."

 

I think with some people, red flags are easier to spot. With him, what you and other perceived to be a red flag was just a yellow one for me, because he did have plans in motion to remedy his situation. Yes, timing was a factor in this - which is why it didn't work out - but I don't regret meeting and dating him.

 

I agree with faraday. When you've had some time to process the pain and heal, to re-read your journal from early on and reconsider your "red flag detection system".

 

From memory a number of us were screaming about how he just broke up with someone and still living with her etc as a red flag. I know you didn't consider it one then but in the future, maybe that needs to change?

 

Before dating Z (my ex), I didn't believe in the whole "not ready to date shortly after break up" concept. I mean if someone tells you they're ready, you should believe them right? But I had to learn that the hard way.

[faraday]

No, because some people aren't aware they are waving flags at all. I asked him if he thought he would be ready for a long term relationship and he said "I hoped I would, with you. I really wanted to try."

 

I think with some people, red flags are easier to spot. With him, what you and other perceived to be a red flag was just a yellow one for me, because he did have plans in motion to remedy his situation. Yes, timing was a factor in this - which is why it didn't work out - but I don't regret meeting and dating him.

 

I will miss his friends. A lot. I want to message his best friend, Ted. He became a dear friend to me. I want to tell him "I'm sorry", but I don't know what I'd be apologizing for. But, he was J's friend first and foremost. I won't put J's friends in the middle.

 

I think very few people can insightfully say right after a break up if they're over someone yet or not. I mean, he probably thought he was over it. I have dated before being ready but didn't realize I wasn't ready until months after it ended. Being over someone....you don't know until you're actually over them and moved on. You think you are...but it's murky sometimes.

 

In the beginning, you can't listen to someone's words....you have to watch their actions. You need to see how they react...see what kind of person they are. I like your J. I think he's a good guy. I think he did the best he could. I also know....in the beginning, we all gave you the "he's living with his ex, back away." And you wanted to go slow. And then you dived head first in.

 

So I disagree. I think you can learn from this.

 

And while it's great that you don't regret dating him- you could have spent that time open to meeting other men (that were not waving red flags like living with their ex)...but most importantly... working on yourself. Right before you met him, you talked about having low self esteem and wanting to work on it (which is why you don't see the flag waving- or chose to ignore it)...and then you jumped in with J and seemed to transfer your need for validation into him (initially through sex and later through anxiety about communication).

 

You need to work on loving yourself now. It's time to take care of you. Find validation from within.

 

I'm not saying this to be mean...I'm saying this because...you need to learn to see red flags and walk away. I know you had fun with J, and it's great that you did but when you don't have any qualifiers...when you don't protect yourself...you're going to get hurt. Repeatedly. And this isn't a "what a jerk he wasn't over his ex thing". This is a "his break up was so recent he STILL lived with his ex...and I dated him anyway" thing. He sounds like a decent guy....but you guys meeting when you did...the timing was off.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mhowe]

Well said Faraday.

[Ms Darcy]

I'm really sorry to hear this. And while I agree with what everyone is saying, I would also add that breaking up is a very hard thing to do. It shows an amazing amount of courage and resiliency on your part to do that. Courage from within.

[WithLove]

I think very few people can insightfully say right after a break up if they're over someone yet or not. I mean, he probably thought he was over it. I have dated before being ready but didn't realize I wasn't ready until months after it ended. Being over someone....you don't know until you're actually over them and moved on. You think you are...but it's murky sometimes.

 

In the beginning, you can't listen to someone's words....you have to watch their actions. You need to see how they react...see what kind of person they are. I like your J. I think he's a good guy. I think he did the best he could. I also know....in the beginning, we all gave you the "he's living with his ex, back away." And you wanted to go slow. And then you dived head first in.

 

So I disagree. I think you can learn from this.

 

And while it's great that you don't regret dating him- you could have spent that time open to meeting other men (that were not waving red flags like living with their ex)...but most importantly... working on yourself. Right before you met him, you talked about having low self esteem and wanting to work on it (which is why you don't see the flag waving- or chose to ignore it)...and then you jumped in with J and seemed to transfer your need for validation into him (initially through sex and later through anxiety about communication).

 

You need to work on loving yourself now. It's time to take care of you. Find validation from within.

 

I'm not saying this to be mean...I'm saying this because...you need to learn to see red flags and walk away. I know you had fun with J, and it's great that you did but when you don't have any qualifiers...when you don't protect yourself...you're going to get hurt. Repeatedly. And this isn't a "what a jerk he wasn't over his ex thing". This is a "his break up was so recent he STILL lived with his ex...and I dated him anyway" thing. He sounds like a decent guy....but you guys meeting when you did...the timing was off.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Ouch. It hurt to read that. Even agreeing with it.

 

If I wait until I'm confident about myself and feeling good to date, I may never be ready. I've struggled so long with myself, it feels like I'll never get to where I want to be.

 

Maybe I'll never be cut out to be one of those strong, self-reliant women, like my mom and those of you that read and reply in here. I'm so envious of all of you. I'm self aware enough to know what my flaws are, but not enough to know how to not make mistakes when they are happening. Sigh.

[WithLove]

It's also confusing to me because even when you recognize red flags.... like J's living with an ex for a short time, or Faraday, when you were dating your Jay in the beginning and he was gone for huge amounts of time and it really strained your guys' communication.... how do you know when it's worth waiting and seeing if you can work through it, and when you should just end it?

[WithLove]

I have family over this weekend and I don't feel like seeing them. I said I'd go to a hockey game tomorrow night and I want to back out. I don't feel like socializing at all. I just want to be home alone.

 

I'm meeting with J tonight after work. I left a dress in his closet that he's giving back to me and I'm giving him the movie tickets for next week. He was agreeable to meeting me halfway so I wouldn't have to drive all the way back to his town.

[reinventmyself]

Awww . .big hugs WL.

 

You are very courageous for taking the stand you have.

You mention low self esteem. People with low self esteem aren't able to make those types of challenging decisions in their own self care that you just did.

What you demonstrated came from a place of strength. Please give yourself credit.

 

As far as red flags. We all chimed in about his living arrangement when you met, but aside from that it's not so easy to tell someone's readiness.

Available people are often confused with needy unavailable. Add in taking things slowly in the beginning it's hard to figure out if the pace is an indication of someone's readiness or someone's reluctance.

 

I think your anxiety and discomfort towards the end was your biggest clue. Anxiety if often telling us something. The goal is sit still long enough in the discomfort to hear what it's saying. We often discount that discomfort when we shouldn't.

 

Overall. . it was his actions, or lack thereof that was the clue. You knew this. Again, give yourself credit!

 

You did good, girl! It hurts like hell but doing the hard thing is an indication of what you're made of.

[Cheetarah]

I need to put in my experience with low-self esteem/seeking out external validation, because this was a VERY familiar struggle. And I kept 'solving' it with transference(get said needs validated/esteem boosts etc). I know what a relationship jumper looks like because I was one for a long time. There were times that I was single, yes. Periods of not being attached. But it hurt to be proactive about my own health and needs, so even if I can make the claim I was single for X amount of time, I jumped ship when it got too rough. Or, I would see little microscopic improvements and thought(subconsciously), "I'm where I need to be! GO RELATIONSHIP GO." While those could have been sustainable improvements, they weren't because I just dumped it all into the next relationship. I was just itching to have someone, giving myself the green light because I didn't feel like sheet for a week or something. And called that success(which it is, in its own little respect. But that's not what I'm talking about here, I digress).

 

WL, I am telling you I have never been more fulfilled than I am now that I have been single for nearly 4 years. Of course my son plays a part in that fulfillment, but he's not it. I got to know myself. I got to really touch base with my core beliefs, my values. I got to know myself inside out and it's really ugly sometimes(so you can see why I'd run in the past), but I can change things I want to change. I can have fun all by myself and it's awesome. I don't feel lonely when I am with myself. Even though I am, by definition, "alone". Alone is not the same as lonely.

 

I know I have preached it a lot on this forum, but there is nothing more fulfilling than being with yourself and liking it. Not just tolerating it, liking it. All the things you thought mattered so much really get put into perspective.

 

I have to go get my son but I want to write to you more later on about this. It might not be a journey you want to take just yet or are ready for, but I have to preach that which is good.

[reinventmyself]

I need to put in my experience with low-self esteem/seeking out external validation, because this was a VERY familiar struggle. And I kept 'solving' it with transference(get said needs validated/esteem boosts etc). I know what a relationship jumper looks like because I was one for a long time. There were times that I was single, yes. Periods of not being attached. But it hurt to be proactive about my own health and needs, so even if I can make the claim I was single for X amount of time, I jumped ship when it got too rough. Or, I would see little microscopic improvements and thought(subconsciously), "I'm where I need to be! GO RELATIONSHIP GO." While those could have been sustainable improvements, they weren't because I just dumped it all into the next relationship. I was just itching to have someone, giving myself the green light because I didn't feel like sheet for a week or something. And called that success(which it is, in its own little respect. But that's not what I'm talking about here, I digress).

 

WL, I am telling you I have never been more fulfilled than I am now that I have been single for nearly 4 years. Of course my son plays a part in that fulfillment, but he's not it. I got to know myself. I got to really touch base with my core beliefs, my values. I got to know myself inside out and it's really ugly sometimes(so you can see why I'd run in the past), but I can change things I want to change. I can have fun all by myself and it's awesome. I don't feel lonely when I am with myself. Even though I am, by definition, "alone". Alone is not the same as lonely.

 

I know I have preached it a lot on this forum, but there is nothing more fulfilling than being with yourself and liking it. Not just tolerating it, liking it. All the things you thought mattered so much really get put into perspective.

 

I have to go get my son but I want to write to you more later on about this. It might not be a journey you want to take just yet or are ready for, but I have to preach that which is good.

 

I love this Cheetarah!

It's never been a straight line for me but I've had similar experiences with self esteem, dating and I've have in turn practiced much of what you've shared .

Probably not a well as you have either, but the message is clear!

 

My heart breaks when WL mentions she may never have the tools to be in a secure relationship, but that is so far from the truth.

That's the grief talking, no doubt.

WL has what it takes and investing that time in herself will have the greatest returns.

[mhowe]

I took the same journey...for nearly 7 years. And found it to probably be the most healing, fulfilling journey of my life. And when I was "done", I looked up and found my current bf standing there...asking to be a part of my life "because it seemed like you are so happy and I want to be a part of it."

[WithLove]

I had a dream last night. I was searching frantically through my house for something. I finally ended up going out to my truck. I turned the corner of it to the driver's side door and there was my dog from my childhood, sitting there, just looking patiently at me. I might have mentioned him before - I got him as a puppy when I was a baby, and he passed away when I was 17. We grew up together. He was the best dog that has ever owned me. He pops up in my dreams every so often, usually when I'm in need of extra love. And last night, there he was, big brown eyes full of love and understanding. I still recall, in my dream, coming to a full stop, feeling my heart hammering, recognizing that he was there even though he had passed away years ago, and knowing that he understood I needed him.

 

I woke up crying, feeling like my heart was literally breaking into pieces.

[faraday]

It's also confusing to me because even when you recognize red flags.... like J's living with an ex for a short time, or Faraday, when you were dating your Jay in the beginning and he was gone for huge amounts of time and it really strained your guys' communication.... how do you know when it's worth waiting and seeing if you can work through it, and when you should just end it?

 

I'm sorry it hurt to read. If you had really low self esteem though, you would have gotten really defensive and told me to F off a long time ago...so you're doing okay ha

 

 

Living with an ex is a red flag. Traveling for work isn't. Although it can be a deal breaker for people.

 

How did I I will jay was worth the wait? I didn't. I had no idea.

 

We weren't exclusive until a few months in. We didn't meet each other's families until around 5 months in. I spent time getting to know him. I didn't have any "talks" with him about our relationship...I just spent as much time with him as I could (which is generally what NOT to do, but we had to roll like that because he was gone so much. Normally in the beginning of a normal relationship, I would do a date or two a week). I watched how he conducted himself. Was he kind? Respectful? Did he appear to be hung up on exes? How was he at communicating? Did he prioritize me when he was in town? If I asked something of him, would he try his best to make it work?

 

At the six month mark, I knew he was pretty special. So I had that talk with him...the one where I laid my cards out on the table...I want more kids, I want marriage...and I need to do it in this ____ time frame. And it sucked. I thought we would end that day. I was fully prepared to walk away at that point if he didn't see me as a potential wife candidate. At the end of the conversation, we promised each other that if at any point either of us realized we didn't see a future with the other, we would immediately end things. with no hard feelings.

 

I'm still prepared to walk away at this point if he doesn't have the hand I'm after. Although...we've had that talk, and he's not the kind of guy to lead me on. He knows what I want from my life, and I know that if he wasn't the guy for that life, he would step aside and let me find him. He's a good man. So I'm not worried.

 

I've had many moments of doubt. I've wavered. But he hasn't. He never goes farther than he's comfortable with. He never goes backwards....he just takes small steps forwards with me- he's a rock. I can count on him. And it took us a long time to get here. I didn't trust him right away...I didn't really trust him until we had been dating a year.

 

You have to take chances on people... But you need to make calculated, rational decisions on who to give chances to. That's why we have red flags- deal breakers. Everyone needs a list of things they won't tolerate- and they need to be fully prepared to walk away at the first sign of them. You can't compromise on a deal breaker. The deal breaker never goes away. Which is what you discovered with J. It didn't go away...it just came out months later when you were already really attached. Which makes it so much harder to walk away. You did a great job walking away when you did...it's so hard! Next time though...recognize those flags earlier...and walk away...even if he's cute and funny and gives you butterflies....because there are other guys that will be that...and they'll be ready, willing and able to have a healthy relationship with you.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Cheetarah]

I took the same journey...for nearly 7 years. And found it to probably be the most healing, fulfilling journey of my life. And when I was "done", I looked up and found my current bf standing there...asking to be a part of my life "because it seemed like you are so happy and I want to be a part of it."

 

I definitely find it healing. I need(ed) to heal. From many things, things I didn't even unearth until I went down this path.

 

WL - At my therapy session last week, my therapist and I got onto the subject of dating. I hadn't even told her about that single date I went on a couple months ago. She looked surprised. I said well, I guess it was nothing to write home about. And then she gave me wide space while I openly reflected on that statement and sentiment. And it unraveled into how in the past, I would have put so much on that date. There would have been so much riding on the date, the potential outcome, etc. I told her we were completely incompatible which I didn't fully note until the following day, because I just decided I was going to enjoy a night out. And I did. I enjoyed the food, I enjoyed the debate(where it was discovered I never wanted to see him again). I enjoyed it exactly for what it was, time outside the house with an adult I may or may not want to get to know.

 

Then I went over things in my head, saw the huge incompatibilities and said no, I won't be doing that again. But that's not how it would have gone before. I would have set aside my beliefs. I would have shoved them over because my loneliness was stronger than that. I wasn't even that in touch with my beliefs before. But being with me...And not running away from it...Let me do that. And I realized that was so much of the problem before. Toxic relationships didn't just 'land' in my lap, I accepted them. I had one set of wants/needs - Ones personal to me, based on values and such(and sitting pretty low on the totem pole, let me tell you). And then I had this other set. The one ALLLLL the way on top of the totem pole. The loneliness, the craving for validation so strong I could physically feel it at times.

 

And until I rearranged those values, put them in their respective places. Until I worked out how to give myself that which I want...I kept going into bad relationship after bad relationship. I'm not even going to say they were all bad. Some were okay. But they weren't what I truly wanted or needed. They didn't line up.

 

And I ended that in therapy by saying "I'll never be with someone like my ex again. It's not just that I don't WANT to. It's that I KNOW. I'm certain." And I am. I'm not saying every man I meet will be nice because they won't. But I have the interpersonal skill set to at least do my part. In recognizing red flags, yellow lights. I also have the certainty in my desires that I will nix that which does not line up. It was effortless, that date. Coming to my conclusion. No part of me felt like damn, I think maybe I could let this slide.....I just knew it was out of the question.

 

And while I have doubts in my abilities like every other person does, what I have now that I didn't then, is a sense of self-worth. That I gave to MYSELF. That I planted, nurtured and grew. No one else. Because I put that responsibility into someone else's hands time and time again. When it was over, I crumbled. No one can take this, now. They can try and hack my plant, prune the leaves but no one is touching these roots. They are so deep into the ground, because that's where I put them. I know where they are.

 

I think it's actually good that your ex boyfriend did not communicate with you as much as you liked. I think you are still delicate right now and if given the opportunity to lose yourself in this relationship, you might have. Life is weird the way it works sometimes. I am a believer that everything has a lesson in it for us to learn, if you make yourself receptive to it.

[WithLove]

I spoke with a friend this evening about it. I told him I've pretty much been jumping into relationships since I was 18. I'd let a handful of months go by in between each to convince myself that I was healed and ready to be in a new relationship. But in reality, it's because I knew I needed someone to tell me I was worth being with.

[itsallgrand]

I took the same journey...for nearly 7 years. And found it to probably be the most healing, fulfilling journey of my life. And when I was "done", I looked up and found my current bf standing there...asking to be a part of my life "because it seemed like you are so happy and I want to be a part of it."

 

Feeling this way ...and don't regret the time I took for myself either. It's given me the real chance to be happy.

[mhowe]

Until you can truly center and be your own authentic self...you will not find the right/appropriate partner.

 

It took me to 49... But I had a lot of lessons (alcoholic dad) and a stubborn streak!!

[faraday]

I wouldn't want to take 2-7 years off dating at this point in my life...I could see...after divorce...when you already have a child, and are past child bearing years...but to take off that big of a chunk during them...I would find that overwhelming. It might be different for WL because she's not sure if she wants children...so taking a break might be good to help her decide what she wants independent of a partner...so that she can know what she wants when she decides to date again.

 

I think it's overwhelming to think about being alone for years ahead of time...fine if you start off on a dating hiatus for a few months and it develops into that, but to start out that way...well, that's they they recommend saying, "I won't smoke today" when you're quitting, or to take no contact one day at a time...because starting out with a huge goal like years...is a bit overwhelming. And who knows? Everyone needs different amounts of time to work through their s&$t.

 

Since I was 18, I've taken a year off here or there...but nothing longer than that...I've worked through a lot of my issues while dating Jay...he's so stable that I can go off and work through stuff in my head, and come back and he's still got the steering wheel heading straight ahead, smiling all oblivious....and he looks good in those aviators and captains hat. But my self esteem is healthy. I have a strong bulls$%t detector....and I have high standards. I'm not afraid to be alone...and I would rather be alone than with someone that doesn't live up to my standards. We just need to get you there too WL. I was you 5 years ago. Things change.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[IAmFCA]

Goodness, years off. That's a lot. I am not having kids, am dating for my own.desire.for.near term companionship and long term stability in partnership with someone. I view these years as important, as I have viewed most years. I've taken time off from relationships, and from dating sometimes, but never for a year or more. I learn a lot from dating.

 

I agree, its important to learn to rely on one's friends, till bake friends on whom one can rely, to have a life that is wonderful before we meet the guy. Why? Because when out lives are valuable, we think twice about exposing our precious lives to men who might be disruptive.

 

The phrase that helped me was to ask myself Am I doing the choosing, or am I getting chosen?

 

Letting myself get chosen got me into relationships faster than I would have otherwise. Putting myself in control and becoming responsible changed everything.

[Cheetarah]

It's a lot because you haven't done it. It sounded like a lot to me too when I wrote it. I paused typing for a second and said in my head "Really? Has it seriously been that long?!" It doesn't feel it. At all. But a few months, 6 months whatever...Sure felt like a lot to me 4 years ago when I couldn't stomach the idea of flying solo.

 

When you depend on having a relationship for worth as WL says she does, the point of taking a hiatus is to shed that mindset. If not for all the things that went on with my son maybe I could have been in a relationship a year ago. I don't know. I like where I am now even more than I did one year ago. I didn't know how long it was going to take me to sort things out. Then I started to enjoy it. I never did before. I relish it...And that is priceless to me.

 

And when you have a habit of taking a couple months and declaring yourself healed enough to go to the next(even though you are not), taking more time is important...To get over that hurdle. It's very uncomfortable and it's like your mind is so accustomed to this one way that you start to feel like things are going haywire when the 'routine' is thrown. How long does that mean for you, WL? I have no idea. I'm where I am because I like it. I'm past the uncomfortable point, which was one of my goals. Now it's just because I want to.

[mhowe]

For me, having left an 8 yr relationship with an alcoholic...I need time. Time to heal, time to destress. I also quit my job, eliminating 20 HOURS of commuting per week and bought a new house. My relationship with ME has my highest priority.

 

I didn't plan on it being 7 yrs, but I guessed it would be at least 3. I had passed my child bearing years and for the life of me couldn't figure what a man could add to my life. I was later to learn...