MONEY and spending with an income disparity - advice please?

[Lito]

>>We are not living together (his idea - which now I have embraced as a great idea and no longer want to live together yet)

 

His idea, and you convinced yourself it was a great idea..

 

 

>>This has resulted in me being the "giver" for much of our relationship, something that he stated recently he wanted to change, admitting that I have been doing more, which is why he was trying to plan the romantic getaway.

 

Planning a romantic getaway for which he gets a paid ticket but you have to pay for yours??.. err, looks like more of the same thing to me..

 

>>Just last weekend he got free tickets to an NFL game and went with me.

again.. more of the same thing

 

 

>>I agreed to do this in order to stop the fighting, and have not brought it up with him again.

 

>>I'm trying to imagine how this looks in practice. The "oh well" sounds easy but...

 

>>I guess the only thing I can do is keep being generous with him, loving with him, and hope that it's reciprocated. We have a lot of similar interests and similar values, although he is more career-focused and luxury-focused than I am.

 

 

I see a man who is not generous, and who does not have you on his mind on an emotional level.. You try to view this as a ‘feminist 21st century issue’ and worry about coming off as a moocher and feeling guilty (?) when it is a matter of not caring the same way for each other.. And deep down you probably know it, ‘hoping’ (your word) to win him by being the generous one and the giver again and again..

 

This whole thread gives me a heartbreaking feeling, considering you’ve been together for TWO years.. You sound like someone emotionally investing in a guy more than he does into her, accepting things that makes her feel sad ‘to stop the fighting’ because you know they would be a breaking point, and you’re not ready to accept this yet..

(And he sounds like he has a lot of emotional growing up to do…

 

 

 

>Curious what your rationale is for that?

just reading what you do and how you feel, the relationship truly sounds unbalanced in terms of emotional investment..

[Hellboy]

You're not going to get any change out of him by continuing to do more of the same. The more you give, the more he will take. He's a taker, not a giver. When he gives, it is begrudgingly. All this portioning out talk or proportional spending sounds like this is some kind of business arrangement and not a relationship. He sounds cold and uncaring. Caring only about money. I would never go on vacation without my gf, and if I did I'd be wishing she was there and I wouldn't fully enjoy it because she was not there. I get the impression that this is a relationship of convenience for him, where he benefits far more than you do.

[michelle89]

Yeah I might not be ready to accept it yet. I have brought up these concerns but all they seem to do is send us in circles. He'll be angry with me for not seeing all that he does for me (which is a lot, admittedly, just not as much as he COULD do or as I do for him), and I'll eventually let it go. When I let it go, he comes back around and says he'll step up his game. He'll promise me all sorts of things, not all of which he can follow through on. Unfortunately it's not the thought that counts when it comes down to it.

[michelle89]

I would never go on vacation without my gf, and if I did I'd be wishing she was there and I wouldn't fully enjoy it because she was not there.

 

He actually said that he wasn't enjoying being away from me for so long and wanted to come home early at one point, but he didn't. Haha.

[Incredible66]

Well if I like a girl (or in love, I dont like using this word) I would spend time with her and do things with her as a couple. You dont just go on holiday without your SO for a month. I wouldnt say it to my girlfriends face but I would go crazy spending that much time away from her. Space is important but come on a freaking month!!! And show me a guy who truly likes his girlfriend and doesnt spoil her. Has he done anything special for you recently? A vacation together, expensive restaurant ( which he paid) or a gift like a necklace or something. Also no matter what us guys say aboit splitting the bill it still strokes our egos if we can do something special for our GFs and wives, it makes us feel good. My mom(who also works) and dad have been married 27yrs and he still takes her to nice vacations, restaurants, they even go sea fishing together and they have 3 sons. He must know by now how to treat a lady.

[Incredible66]

Actions speak louder than words, dudes will say anything to keep a girl happy even if he doesnt really care!!!

[michelle89]

Has he done anything special for you recently?

 

When he was gone on his vacation he got me earrings and a little art piece (while he was gone I got him a few things too - and he felt bad so he gave them to me as soon as I gave him the gifts I got him haha). He notices that I always do little things for him like buying groceries to make dinner and making dinner for him, making his bed and leaving a note when I leave his place after him, etc. so he reciprocates in kind when he isn't gone or busy with work. He bought groceries and made me dinner last night. He took me out to a semi-fancy Italian place for our anniversary last month and he is actually planning to take me out on another date this Friday - I texted him today to ask if he wanted to split it so I could budget accordingly and he said, "Nope! I wanted it to be my date night turn" - I guess that means he is expecting us to go back on the alternating date night schedule, which is okay.

 

I'm feeling more torn than ever now. I have been feeling guilty for having that little Disney-fed princess inside who likes to be spoiled. But I also know roles reversed, I would be spoiling him much more financially, and in terms of thoughtfulness, time spent, and even driving and commuting - I'm the one who gives more. It sucks to admit it and also have it validated from others that it means I'm more emotionally invested.

[michelle89]

Actions speak louder than words, dudes will say anything to keep a girl happy even if he doesnt really care!!!

 

It's actually really funny that you mentioned buying a necklace because he said the weirdest thing the other day. He was like "I was looking around and I was on the verge of buying this necklace for you, credit card out." And I was like "Oh what? That's so nice... what was it like?" So he described the necklace in detail... and I said, "Oh man that sounds beautiful. What stopped you?" And then he goes, "It was like $250..." and I was like "Oh okay!" I thought it was incredibly lame that he told me about almost making me feel like the most special beautiful girl in the world and then told me about how he didn't because it was too expensive. Haha. I think it was just a goof up on his part, so I let it go.

[Incredible66]

Hopefully he shows you a very good time and makes it all about you when you guys go out again,

[Hellboy]

What's wrong with having what you really want regardless of where the idea comes from? I have yet to meet a girl who does not like to be pampered and made to feel special and treated like a princess.

 

If the financial concerns of bills and whatnot did not exist, would you be happy in this relationship?

[Incredible66]

I dont know what to say. I am at uni and at least 60% of the girls I know are dating old men with money or guys at uni who are loaded. This gives a bad image to the good guys like my friends and it makes them think all the girls want is money (just like 60%+ of guys only want girls for sex) so it could be an issue of he doesnt want to invest financially into your relationship for that reason (doesnt trust you enough) or he is stingy. Either way you might have to use your god given 6th sense to decide what it is and wether he is giving you the attention you want and treats you like a princess. But I do get where he might be coming from. Maybe focus on climbing the career wall to make more money so that you can go with with on holidays and stuff if the 50/50 thing is still an issue.

[michelle89]

If the financial concerns of bills and whatnot did not exist, would you be happy in this relationship?

 

Yes. If the idea of money were completely removed from our relationship then I can imagine that I wouldn't feel an unfair financial burden, and I wouldn't be adding up costs in my head which would free up space to just be and give and receive love regardless of the cost.

 

What we give each other outside of "acts of service" and "gifts" which both cost money is true companionship, love, and unconditional support. We talk everyday and help each other. We are each others' best friends.

 

Maybe that's not what you mean though.

[michelle89]

Maybe focus on climbing the career wall to make more money so that you can go with with on holidays and stuff if the 50/50 thing is still an issue.

 

This is great advice and I SO wish it were possible. Unfortunately I'm a social worker, and he's potentially going to be partner at a law firm someday - even with my own private practice or as a manager, I'll never make what he will.

[Incredible66]

I hope this one issue works out for the 2 of you. Enjoy the rest of your day/evening.

[Hell_On_Heels]

This is great advice and I SO wish it were possible. Unfortunately I'm a social worker, and he's potentially going to be partner at a law firm someday - even with my own private practice or as a manager, I'll never make what he will.

 

Ok, wow, back up the bus! Unfortunately you're a social worker? No, love, I'd say unfortunately he does not share your world view and/or priorities.

 

You've chosen a career that helps people. You've decided to invest your life to helping humanity progress and improve. There is nothing unfortunate about that. I say brava!

 

Personally, I think he has your mind so twisted up in knots now that you can't see your own life vision clearly any more. Please think about this. His priority seems to be on money and luxuries. I'm not sure you are the same. That alone will eventually sound the death knell on the relationship.

 

As for being a feminist with equal expectations and how those fit into relationships, just substitute a female for your BF when speaking and see if you still agree with your statements. If your sister made 3 times as much as you and got a free trip, would you expect to pay your way to go with her if you'd been planning a getaway?

 

If the expectation of a female is the same as the expectation of a male, then it isn't gender-based, it's relationship-based. And that's exactly where it should be.

 

I'm sorry. I think you'd be happier with someone who shares your priorities. I think you'd be happier with someone who doesn't tell you, "You're special, but not $250 special." You are probably worth your weight in gold.

[Batya33]

I have a friend who is a social worker. I was in a much higher paying career at the time. I wanted to go to a nice b&b when I went out to visit her so I insisted on paying for it (since otherwise we would have stayed at a much cheaper place). I don't think I asked her to chip in - but I think she insisted on paying for certain things. I would do the same thing again . When we went on a trip to Europe together I stayed at a very low-key b&b with her because that is what she could afford. Both ways worked great of course. I don't think this is about money -I think your bf would behave the same way even if there wasn't a disparity -meaning he'd act self-absorbed in some other way, making plans to go away when it was easier for him to do so logistically, etc.

 

I think you are trying too hard to label yourself a feminist especially within this context of a romantic relationship. Let the labels go and reconfirm for yourself what you want exactly in a romantic relationship and be bluntly honest with yourself. That way you can be far more clear with him.

[journeynow]

It's actually really funny that you mentioned buying a necklace because he said the weirdest thing the other day. He was like "I was looking around and I was on the verge of buying this necklace for you, credit card out." And I was like "Oh what? That's so nice... what was it like?" So he described the necklace in detail... and I said, "Oh man that sounds beautiful. What stopped you?" And then he goes, "It was like $250..." and I was like "Oh okay!" I thought it was incredibly lame that he told me about almost making me feel like the most special beautiful girl in the world and then told me about how he didn't because it was too expensive. Haha. I think it was just a goof up on his part, so I let it go.

 

This sounds manipulative to me. I know a few people who do things like this, dangle a carrot so-to-speak, then snatch it away. It makes them sound thoughtful and generous without really having to walk the talk. (Weren't there other less expensive things he could have chosen instead?)

 

While I feel cautious about expecting to benefit from his increased income, I do feel you need to pay attention to his actions. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words. I don't mean just actions around money, but overall, do his actions show he is "in" this relationship with you and moving closer, or does he have one foot out or is keeping the relationship stagnant, or does it feel like the relationship is dying?

[t1lersm0m1]

I'm a litle late to this thread but read the replies and wanted to weigh in.

 

To me, you do not sound like a gold-digger. I understand that some say he should not be paying for you since you are not married, however you were with him before he had his own money. You've been with him for two years, you aren't a new woman on the scene. And quite frankly, the fact that his plane ticket is covered by his job since he'll be out there for work after your weekend getaway means (in my book anyway) that he should cover your plane ticket or at least a large sum of it.

 

I'm not a gold digger either. My son is dating a girl who's mother is on welfare. I am very good to her because I know her mother can't be. I took her to the store to buy her things, I took her for sushi, I give them money to go out to eat. She is probably coming on vacation with us in December and there's no way her mother can contribute to a trip to Walt Disney World.

 

With all of that being said, if I were dating a man who made triple what I made, and he expected me to pay 50/50, that relationship would not last very long. Especially not considering the fact that you were with him before he made triple the money. Again you aren't a new woman in his life who has her hand out. You have an established relationship.

 

Any man who can go on vacation for a month and be away from you, I feel doesn't value you the way you deserve to be valued. I'm not saying he should not travel because you have less money, but a month is a long time. Instead of traveling for a month, why couldn't he take you somewhere for a week that you could afford to chip in? It's not that he doesn't have the money to pick these appealing optinos, it's that he chooses not to.

 

And I'm sorry, but that story about the necklace is basically "Yeah, you're not worth $250". That was a horrible thing to tell you!

 

You can take all of the advice on the internet that you want, but at the end of the day you only know how you feel. Feelings can't be wrong, they are based on our ideals and values, and no one can dictate your ideals and values. So you have to listen to your heart and what your heart tells you.

 

Wouldn't you rather find a generous man in your income bracket (I'm not implying you take advantage of him), than a greedy man who makes triple your income?

[Fudgie]

I don't understand the perspective of people saying he *should* be paying your way. You two aren't married! Meshing incomes together before you're married is a bad idea.

 

If you're feeling left out, talk to him. Say that you don't make as much as him but you still want to do fun things together so why not come up with some activities that you can do together that you can both afford to chip in on. If you really care about him and his company, it won't matter if you're going to a diner together or to South Africa for vacation, as long as you're together and having a good time. I would argue, a girlfriend who pouts that her boyfriend is doing fun things without her sometimes but still making an effort to see her without making her break her bank does come accross as a "gold digger".

 

My point is, a boyfriend isn't obligated to subsidize his girlfriend. The end. It's nice if he wants to but you should feel grateful if he decides to fund you on a vacation or something, not like it's expected.

 

The only thing that bothers me here is that he's going on very long vacations without you...I imagine you're not talking much during these times? How is your relationship otherwise?

[SpottiOtti]

So knowing that there is a chance I could go if he will pitch in a little more, but he won't, will make me sad.

 

Ah, but he did come around and offer to pitch in more, but you perpetuated the disagreement because of your feelings of guilt and shame over the money thing . . . explore your feelings more about being a good "feminist" and how you'd feel even if he did offer to buy you plane tickets all the time - would you be able to accept that or would you feel too guilty?

 

I agree with your therapist that this will level out one way or another over time, and it's also okay if it ends with you saying to yourself, "I am actually not okay with him paying my way because I want to pay my own way in a relationship."

[marklewis]

Problem is the part of life so don't worry, need to courage. financial prob is the big problem you need to think about it and manage the relationship and enjoy. for your best future you need to understand your responsibility of your family.

[bulletproof]

I don't understand the perspective of people saying he *should* be paying your way.

 

I agree. There is no "should." Would it be nice if he did? Sure. But to expect that just seems wrong somehow.

 

OP, if you honestly feel like he is not a generous person, and that is a character flaw that you cannot live with, then you shouldn't be with him. But to stay with him and propose financial agreements and have discussions about how he should spend his money seems futile and really bad for the relationship.

[t1lersm0m1]

I think it's simply a difference in values. My most recent ex and I planned my dream national park trip (but broke up before the trip). He planned to pay for more of the trip since I have a son who was going along with us. I said no, that's not fair. However, at the time I was living with my mother and had small living expenses.

 

If we were together now and taking the trip, I would accept him paying for more of the trip, since he earns more than I do and I'm supporting my son and I.

 

I guess the phrase expect is wrong. However, I choose to date men who are generous. If that's something OP values in her life, then I think she's picked a bad match. I don't think she's wrong for wanting him to pay for trips, but if being generous with his SO is not something her bf values, and she values generosity, then I think this is a bad match.

 

He could clearly compensate by skipping a month long solo trip and taking a weeklong couples trip. Those are choices he chooses not to make. So maybe the phrase he "should" do that is wrong.

 

I think this is just clearly a case of mis-matched values. Neither one of them is right as their values are what are mismatched.

[Hell_On_Heels]

I don't understand the perspective of people saying he *should* be paying your way. You two aren't married! Meshing incomes together before you're married is a bad idea.

 

It's a changing world. The lines are blurring into something new, and I don't think this blurring will clearly define itself for a long long time yet - well beyond my lifetime.

 

Some people think marriage is a bad idea. Some people think men should pay for dates. People are all over the place with this stuff, and naturally so.

 

Thing is, I'd agree with you if we were talking about bills, retirements, etc. But we're talking about disposable income. If one partner doesn't want to share their income via gifts with the other, to me, that's awful. To someone else, that might be fine. This diversity in opinion is good It makes us all think about these things.

 

I'm older, and I do have some old-fashioned ideas. I expect men to hold doors open for me. However, it doesn't make any sense to me for a person who has far more disposable income to charge 50/50. It doesn't make sense to me that people earning $12 an hour pay the same rate for their health benefits as people who make $120 an hour. I was raised that those with more should give more - because there is a point where food, shelter, etc are not a worry.

 

When you combine that with a romantic relationship where the norm is occasional generous bursts of love - often in the form of gifts - I have to question where this man's heart is at. He doesn't seem to offer gestures or material gifts. Usually people lean more heavily towards one or the other, but this guy seems to be completely absent from the giving field.

 

To finish my thread jack (wry grin) a man at work refused to hold the door open for a woman recently. He cited equality and "all that". I told him he could quit opening my door the day he could birth his own babies.

[Ms Darcy]

I personally hate the 50/50 argument UNLESS both people in the couple are making the same amount. Proportional, to me, is much more equal. It's not perfect, but it's better.

 

Ultimately, you are paying for a shared experience. What is the economic impact of said experience? Say a guy makes $150,000 a year and his girlfriend makes $5,000 (assuming she's a student). I have a friend who had this experience. Switch genders, it doesn't matter. But to expect the $5,000 a year person to pay half on a $100 dinner is ridiculous. The economic impact on that person is far greater than on the $150k a year person. She's pretty low maintenance and they wouldn't go out a ton, but if they went to the movies he paid or they did free stuff.

 

I would rather shell out a few thousand in entertainment expenses with someone I love and who loves me (and who I believe is not taking advantage of me) than keep all my money and be alone.