Pillow Talk - Prenuptial Agreement

[needhelp6]

Turns out my ex's engagement is unraveling due to a disagreement on a prenuptial agreement (having one). Woman I'm seeing was at my place when ex called and gave me the news. We discussed it briefly as it related to my ex and I thought the topic was over.

 

A little background, woman I'm seeing I'm quite serious about, introducing her to my daughter this weekend and I see her as long-term and potentially marriage material. Later that evening as we're lying in bed woman I'm seeing tells me, "I want you to know I'm not opposed to a prenuptial agreement." I didn't really know what to say other than, "OK." This seemed like a odd thing to say lying in bed, also at the point in our relationship. Relationship is moving fast as some of you may remember from past threads so maybe it's not that odd. Also, I'm somewhat surprised that she would be OK with putting one in place. Don't get me wrong, I was pleased to hear this, however it did surprise me that this would be her position.

 

So here's my question, why would she bring this up now and so casually? We've never discussed it and it's never been the elephant in the room between us. Is she just doing some housekeeping and getting that discussion out of the way, or at least her position on it? Actually it wasn't even a discussion. This is freaking me out a bit, probably over thinking as usual.

 

Thoughts?

[mhowe]

Because it came up as an issue you discussed with your ex. So she simply made her position known.

 

Overthinking.

[Seraphim]

Because it came up as an issue you discussed with your ex. So she simply made her position known.

 

Overthinking.

 

^ Yes, that.

[WithLove]

It came up and since that's where you potentially see your relationship moving to, she probably thinks the same thing and wanted you to know her position. You're overthinking it. Good luck!

[Ms Darcy]

She mentioned it as a result of you mentioning it.

 

Why are you asking?

[DancingFool]

It came up quite naturally and she told you where she stands. That's a good thing. It's one of those topics that people generally know where they are ahead of time. Just another aspect of personal financial management. In other words it's not personal or specific to you. You are definitely over thinking and reacting for no good reason.

[needhelp6]

She mentioned it as a result of you mentioning it.

 

Why are you asking?

I guess I'm asking for two reasons 1) it was treated so casually. To me a legal agreement is a big deal that I don't toss around agreeing to lightly. Whether or not people want to admit this marriage is a legal contract with certain rights and exposure for both parties. To casually agree to signing away your rights without any type of negotiation to me seems careless. 2) Throw in the fact that you do it while lying in bed, seems too casual. I would never discuss a contract while lying in bed.

 

But I didn't mention it as it pertained to our relationship only my ex's.

 

I do tend to over think and make a mountain out of mole hill.

[Seraphim]

She made an aside comment that is all. You can blow it into epic proportions if you want to.

[WithLove]

If it truly bothers you, bring it up again if you propose and are discussing marriage. Otherwise, don't worry so much.

[Ms Darcy]

OK, so it bothers you that you think she's treating a legal agreement casually. What does that mean for the relationship?

[PaintWithLight]

I guess I'm asking for two reasons 1) it was treated so casually. To me a legal agreement is a big deal that I don't toss around agreeing to lightly. Whether or not people want to admit this marriage is a legal contract with certain rights and exposure for both parties. To casually agree to signing away your rights without any type of negotiation to me seems careless. 2) Throw in the fact that you do it while lying in bed, seems too casual. I would never discuss a contract while lying in bed.

 

But I didn't mention it as it pertained to our relationship only my ex's.

 

I do tend to over think and make a mountain out of mole hill.

 

It is pillow talk. Relax. She was just clearing her mind about extraneous things and the overheard conversation with you ex popped up. She was not discussing a contract. She was voicing her opinion that she had no issue with it in contrast to it being a deal breaker with your relationship of your ex.

 

As long as the conversation is easy-breezy, the bedroom is a perfect place to voice feelings, opinions, dreams and desires. You gotta lighten up. If she had talked about visiting Paris one day, would you have jumped to the same reaction. Paris? That means visas and airplane tickets....and gosh, does she even have a valid passport?

 

I think you reacted strongly because of the conversation with the ex. Why is the ex calling you anyway to discuss the breakdown of her relationship. How could her prenup possibly affect you? Your divorce decree should have permanently settled all assets between the two of you.

[lavenderdove]

>>1) it was treated so casually. To me a legal agreement is a big deal that I don't toss around agreeing to lightly.

 

Yes, way overthinking.

 

She didn't at this moment agree to the specific TERMS of a pre-nup you might draw up if you decide to marry, but to the idea that having a pre-nup is an OK/good idea. Now obviously YOU think it is a good idea, so why are you holding it against her because SHE also thinks it is a good idea? Maybe she has some assets/ideas of her own she wants to protect.

 

Many women/people these days are just fine with the idea of a pre-nup, in fact want one themselves. And you're assuming that she'll agree to a pre-nup that denies her everything in the event of a divorce. Most pre-nups are not like that... they exclude what is fair to exclude, but it doesn't mean the wife will end up with nothing in a divorce, and in fact she may have some clauses of her own she'd add like if you cheat on her the terms of the pre-nup are invalid or you owe her $X amount of money. There is no such thing as a 'standard' pre-nup and every one is written to match the circumstances and wishes of both the bride and groom, and are negotiated.

 

I personally would have no trouble if I were to marry a man and he wanted to exclude from the divorce any private assets that were very important to him, or family heirlooms, or a lump sum he wanted to keep or go to his kids. But I'd never sign a pre-nup that said that he'd get EVERYTHING in the divorce including a house we jointly owned together or assets we jointly earned during the marriage. So those things have to negotiated after the engagement and before the marriage. Some pre-nups are more liberal than others, and people will or won't sign to protect their own interests.

 

I think the fact that you discussed your ex's pre-nup issues just opened this topic naturally. And it was just pillow talk, expressing the opinion that she had no objections to the idea of a pre-nup. So she wasn't proposing marriage, and you are way overreacting to this. She can't MAKE you marry her and she hasn't asked you to draw up a pre-nup for her to review... so relax!

[lavenderdove]

btw, if you are assuming that a pre-nup means she gets ZERO if you divorce, then tell her that right now. Next to no person is going to sign a pre-nup that deprives them of joint assets earned during a marriage, unless they are insane. So if that is your assumption, tell her now so that she can go find a man who is reasonable about marriage rather than greedy. If that is not your assumption, then just take it for what it is worth, a topic that came up in conversation and a sensible woman who is fine with the idea of a pre-nup (most likely assuming that pre-nup will be fair).

[DancingFool]

I guess I'm asking for two reasons 1) it was treated so casually. To me a legal agreement is a big deal that I don't toss around agreeing to lightly. Whether or not people want to admit this marriage is a legal contract with certain rights and exposure for both parties. To casually agree to signing away your rights without any type of negotiation to me seems careless. 2) Throw in the fact that you do it while lying in bed, seems too casual. I would never discuss a contract while lying in bed.

 

But I didn't mention it as it pertained to our relationship only my ex's.

 

I do tend to over think and make a mountain out of mole hill.

 

Buddy, she was not actually discussing marriage and negotiating a contract with you. She merely expressed that she would not be opposed to having a prenup. It was a casual situation and NOT a marriage proposal followed by immediate detailed contractual signing without reading the contract.

 

Also, if you think that a prenup is either party signing away their marital rights blankly, you are in for a rude awakening. As already pointed out to you, a real, enforceable prenup will be fair to both parties and address the interests of both parties equally in terms of protecting certain assets the individuals are interested in protecting. Nowadays, most women are not paupers completely dependent on the man and so you shouldn't be surprised that there are plenty of women out there who have considered the need for a prenup. The later in life, the more so.

[needhelp6]

OK, so it bothers you that you think she's treating a legal agreement casually. What does that mean for the relationship?

That I'm wound too tight and over think things LOL.

 

It is pillow talk. Relax. She was just clearing her mind about extraneous things and the overheard conversation with you ex popped up. She was not discussing a contract. She was voicing her opinion that she had no issue with it in contrast to it being a deal breaker with your relationship of your ex.

 

As long as the conversation is easy-breezy, the bedroom is a perfect place to voice feelings, opinions, dreams and desires. You gotta lighten up. If she had talked about visiting Paris one day, would you have jumped to the same reaction. Paris? That means visas and airplane tickets....and gosh, does she even have a valid passport?

 

I think you reacted strongly because of the conversation with the ex. Why is the ex calling you anyway to discuss the breakdown of her relationship. How could her prenup possibly affect you? Your divorce decree should have permanently settled all assets between the two of you.

Not sure why the ex felt compelled to call me with this news. Ex and I were never married, however we did have a "relationship" agreement in place and other than on-going child support this agreement has been fulfilled.

 

>>1) it was treated so casually. To me a legal agreement is a big deal that I don't toss around agreeing to lightly.

 

Yes, way overthinking.

 

She didn't at this moment agree to the specific TERMS of a pre-nup you might draw up if you decide to marry, but to the idea that having a pre-nup is an OK/good idea. Now obviously YOU think it is a good idea, so why are you holding it against her because SHE also thinks it is a good idea? Maybe she has some assets/ideas of her own she wants to protect.

 

Many women/people these days are just fine with the idea of a pre-nup, in fact want one themselves. And you're assuming that she'll agree to a pre-nup that denies her everything in the event of a divorce. Most pre-nups are not like that... they exclude what is fair to exclude, but it doesn't mean the wife will end up with nothing in a divorce, and in fact she may have some clauses of her own she'd add like if you cheat on her the terms of the pre-nup are invalid or you owe her $X amount of money. There is no such thing as a 'standard' pre-nup and every one is written to match the circumstances and wishes of both the bride and groom, and are negotiated.

 

I personally would have no trouble if I were to marry a man and he wanted to exclude from the divorce any private assets that were very important to him, or family heirlooms, or a lump sum he wanted to keep or go to his kids. But I'd never sign a pre-nup that said that he'd get EVERYTHING in the divorce including a house we jointly owned together or assets we jointly earned during the marriage. So those things have to negotiated after the engagement and before the marriage. Some pre-nups are more liberal than others, and people will or won't sign to protect their own interests.

 

I think the fact that you discussed your ex's pre-nup issues just opened this topic naturally. And it was just pillow talk, expressing the opinion that she had no objections to the idea of a pre-nup. So she wasn't proposing marriage, and you are way overreacting to this. She can't MAKE you marry her and she hasn't asked you to draw up a pre-nup for her to review... so relax! point(s)

[Batya33]

Should she overthink why you took a call from your ex to discuss such a personal matter?

[needhelp6]

btw, if you are assuming that a pre-nup means she gets ZERO if you divorce, then tell her that right now. Next to no person is going to sign a pre-nup that deprives them of joint assets earned during a marriage, unless they are insane. So if that is your assumption, tell her now so that she can go find a man who is reasonable about marriage rather than greedy. If that is not your assumption, then just take it for what it is worth, a topic that came up in conversation and a sensible woman who is fine with the idea of a pre-nup (most likely assuming that pre-nup will be fair).

Not assuming that at all. In-fact in my relationship agreement with the ex she was treated quite fairly.

 

Buddy, she was not actually discussing marriage and negotiating a contract with you. She merely expressed that she would not be opposed to having a prenup. It was a casual situation and NOT a marriage proposal followed by immediate detailed contractual signing without reading the contract.

 

Also, if you think that a prenup is either party signing away their marital rights blankly, you are in for a rude awakening. As already pointed out to you, a real, enforceable prenup will be fair to both parties and address the interests of both parties equally in terms of protecting certain assets the individuals are interested in protecting. Nowadays, most women are not paupers completely dependent on the man and so you shouldn't be surprised that there are plenty of women out there who have considered the need for a prenup. The later in life, the more so.

Do not think nor would I want someone to blankly sign their marriage rights away.

 

I guess the casual nature of the comments threw me. This will come as a shock to many of you but many have accused me of being "up-tight." To me this is the type of conversation one has outside of the bedroom. This is just me being weird I suppose.

[needhelp6]

Should she overthink why you took a call from your ex to discuss such a personal matter?

We're having guests this weekend who are friends of both ex and I (introducing pillow talk woman to daughter this weekend in group setting). For whatever reason ex wanted me to hear the news from her not second hand. Also was concerned that the facts did not get skewed 2nd and 3rd hand.

[lavenderdove]

Why don't you draw up a pre-pre-nup that tells her exactly what she can and can't talk about in the bedroom? Just kidding... really, lighten up a bit because pillow talk is usually open to about everything there is... it is a time you are together and in private where you can discuss anything.

 

The lawyer isn't in the bedroom with you now, and the talk only gets serious when you both sit down with him and start talking specifics.

[needhelp6]

Why don't you draw up a pre-pre-nup that tells her exactly what she can and can't talk about in the bedroom? Just kidding... really, lighten up a bit because pillow talk is usually open to about everything there is... it is a time you are together and in private where you can discuss anything.

 

The lawyer isn't in the bedroom with you now, and the talk only gets serious when you both sit down with him and start talking specifics.

Very funny, made me laugh. Need to loosen my tie a bit I think.

[Batya33]

We're having guests this weekend who are friends of both ex and I (introducing pillow talk woman to daughter this weekend in group setting). For whatever reason ex wanted me to hear the news from her not second hand. Also was concerned that the facts did not get skewed 2nd and 3rd hand.

 

Should she overthink that you took the call right then when your girlfriend was around? See what I mean -you're analyzing a casual comment she made based on a topic you brought up with your ex and I'm asking you to think about how it might have looked to her when you took that call and had that conversation.

[abitbroken]

It is very important to have many softball conversations early in one's relationship to feel eachother out. My bf and I had light conversations about kids, if I would consider marriage again (i am divorced) in the future (not proposing, just to see where I stood in life), matters of faith, etc. all in two sentence or five minute mentions. You sort of do that to get to know one another. She heard that your ex's engagement was off because of the prenup and she decided to let you know, that unlike your ex's fiance, she doesn't think its a big deal. It may or may not come into play between the two of you. But at least you are finding out in bits and pieces on how she stands so there are no surprises down the road.

[journeynow]

I see her as long-term and potentially marriage material.

 

You sound concerned that she mentioned her stand on prenuptial agreements casually. " To me a legal agreement is a big deal that I don't toss around agreeing to lightly." But she wasn't MAKING a prenuptial agreement with you, she was talking about the idea of one, just like you are talking about the idea of marriage with us in this thread. (See the above quote.) Your concern over her comment is like us here being alarmed that you used the word "marriage" so casually in an online conversation with strangers. Marriage is a a big deal and a legal agreement, too. But you are just talking about the idea of it, not actually proposing to her. Same thing, essentially.

 

Are you afraid she's pressuring you into marriage? I wouldn't get that impression simply because of that one comment of hers, but maybe there is something else that is making you feel that way.

[needhelp6]

Should she overthink that you took the call right then when your girlfriend was around? See what I mean -you're analyzing a casual comment she made based on a topic you brought up with your ex and I'm asking you to think about how it might have looked to her when you took that call and had that conversation.

We have a daughter together, my ex calls I'm going to take the call. She doesn't call often and typically only when its related to my daughter. I took the call and went to my study to speak in private. Did not have call in front of girlfriend (that seems so odd, girlfriend at my age).

 

It is very important to have many softball conversations early in one's relationship to feel eachother out. My bf and I had light conversations about kids, if I would consider marriage again (i am divorced) in the future (not proposing, just to see where I stood in life), matters of faith, etc. all in two sentence or five minute mentions. You sort of do that to get to know one another. She heard that your ex's engagement was off because of the prenup and she decided to let you know, that unlike your ex's fiance, she doesn't think its a big deal. It may or may not come into play between the two of you. But at least you are finding out in bits and pieces on how she stands so there are no surprises down the road.

The more I examine this and the more feedback I think you're right.

 

You sound concerned that she mentioned her stand on prenuptial agreements casually. " To me a legal agreement is a big deal that I don't toss around agreeing to lightly." But she wasn't MAKING a prenuptial agreement with you, she was talking about the idea of one, just like you are talking about the idea of marriage with us in this thread. (See the above quote.) Your concern over her comment is like us here being alarmed that you used the word "marriage" so casually in an online conversation with strangers. Marriage is a a big deal and a legal agreement, too. But you are just talking about the idea of it, not actually proposing to her. Same thing, essentially.

 

Are you afraid she's pressuring you into marriage? I wouldn't get that impression simply because of that one comment of hers, but maybe there is something else that is making you feel that way.

Yes, it was very casual and from the feedback I've received its me who is wound-up tight here.

 

I see your point. However, isn't the anonymity one of the points of these on-line forums? You can put things out there (like marriage) that you wouldn't speak to your partner about just yet?

 

Not afraid she's pressuring me for marriage at all. A commitment or assurance (I broke-up with her once) that I won't break-up with her again yes, marriage or engagement no. She's pretty much left this in my hands. I do hope our relationship progresses to this point. Big milestone towards that this weekend, she's meeting my daughter for the first time. Lots of nerves on both sides this week.

[journeynow]

I see your point. However, isn't the anonymity one of the points of these on-line forums? You can put things out there (like marriage) that you wouldn't speak to your partner about just yet?

 

Anonymity is really a different issue. The point is the casual discussion about a potentially serious legal decision. "Casual" is not to be mistook with "serious." What is important is why this has you so concerned. It's not that your reaction is wrong, your reaction is information to perhaps look at. What is behind your reaction? Are there thoughts connected with it? Concerns? Are you picking up something subtle coming from her, or from something else? Sit quietly with it for awhile, and see what comes up about it.