How often do women REJECT guys?

[notalady]

Regarding your original question, if you are talking about rejection by way of not agreeing to go on a date, and in terms of online dating, perhaps saying no thanks when guys message me, I have done plenty, and have also been "rejected" plenty when I message someone first, never kept count. If you want to go one step further and count the times I have gone on a first date and said no thanks when being asked on a second date, also quite a few, at the same time, quite a few I thought the first date went well and never asked me out on a second date, should I count these as me being rejected then? I guess I would by your definition. Here's the thing, I don't see it as rejection. I frankly don't care about these people, they are strangers to me. I don't care if a guy said no thanks to my message or not asking me out on a first or second date, they are people I barely know, why would I care about what they think about me.

 

I have also asked guys out before, whether it's online or offline (offline was when I was much much younger) and guess what I learned, when guys don't ask you out, they are not interested. You are right, majority of guys will say yes, but that means nothing to me, because they are not interested and still are not after a date. If I was to cheapen myself to offer sex as well, I'm sure they would have said yes too. Again that means absolutely nothing to me. I've never seen a case myself where the woman asked a guy out and he fell madly in love with her and it all worked out, I think it's safe to say it is rare. Smart women know how it works and they won't ask men out. It's men's job to ask and women's job to be asked. Asking comes with the risk of being rejected, if you can't toughen up and handle it then perhaps it's your problem not the women's. Waiting to be asked is no fun either, especially for someone who takes initiative in all aspects of her life, actually likes to lead and likes to be in control. But men ask women out if they are interested is the universal rule, if that doesn't happen then they are not interested. Why not stick to what is proven to work.

 

Your question about how much women reject men seems to imply that women are being unappreciative, or that they enjoy rejecting men or something. Guess what, they don't enjoy it. And they get rejected plenty (if not on a first date, then most likely later on, by way of their interest or love not being reciprocated or appreciated). That is way worse than the initial rejection by a stranger, because they would have invested time and emotions into someone and get their heart broken.

[Wayfara]

AKA, wait until all her other options are exhausted... AHA, no thank you, we're not going to sit around and wait for a woman somewhere to figure out her requirements are too picky...

 

If she only wants you because all her other options are exhausted then I don't count that as her being interested, that is her being desperate. Anyway a man not wanting to wait around until a woman is interested is his choice.

 

About being picky, there is a difference between being picky and being too picky. To be too picky first your criteras must be nearly impossible to find and secondly you must be not okay with thoose odds. So if you have a long list of critereas but have no problem with finding interested people meeting those criterias, then you are not being too picky because obviously you can get what you want. If you have a long list of critereas and can't find any anyone meeting them but it doesn't matter as you don't mind being single, even if forever, then you are not being too picky either. You are only being too picky if it's a problem for you.

 

I think some people think equality is about men and women being all the same with only one path being "the right one" so when some women choose differently than some men they think they cheat. In my opinon equality isn't about being forced to be the same, it's about the freedom to make your own choice and if that means more men than women choose to ask strangers out then so be it. Approaching strangers for a date is in my opinion neither better or worse than choosing not to, both choices are equally valid. Obviously we are all biased and think our own way is the best, for me personally I would prefer men to not cold approach and be more like women that way.

 

Anyway I think people in general need incentive for their actions. For some men a pretty face might be enough incentive to ask her out and that is their choice. For me walking past a cute face doesn't make me feel like I miss out so for me a cute face isn't incentive, and that is my choice. This doesn't mean I wouldn't approach a man if I had incentive to do so, like if he seemed like a really cool guy to be around. Determining if someone is cool to be around does take longer though than determining if someone has a cute face, and that leads to me approaching men less than if I had cute face as criteria.

[Blue Spiral]

But men ask women out if they are interested is the universal rule, if that doesn't happen then they are not interested. Why not stick to what is proven to work.

 

Yes, it's proven to work...for women...

 

Also, I just discovered that I've never been interested in women, apparently. My internet history is going to be shocked.

[Batya33]

I know I wouldn't be married now if I hadn't initiated a lot of contact with my husband very early on - I did not ask him out but I might have done if he hadn't. I don't think I would have asked him to get back together with me at the time we reconnected - but that's also because I knew him very well and knew he would ask if that is how he felt. I did however show a lot of interest and I know that made a real difference in his decision to ask me out and then ask that we be in a serious relationship. I think it's very important for women to show active interest.

 

When I was dating -for about 24 years, on and off, until 8 years ago- asking out men on dates, especially more than once, was typically ineffective if the woman was looking for a long term relationship instead of a fling/casual dating. Showing active interest in men and seeking out experiences and activities where she was likely to meet men and be able to start good conversations naturally was essential for most women (not all I guess - maybe women who looked a certain way even when out jogging got enough male attention without having to put in that kind of effort).

 

I think asking out men is probably more effective these days than it was especially since it can be done even more casually -over text, etc (in my 20s you either had to ask the guy out face to face -which I did - call the guy and actually talk to him - which I did (not everyone had voicemail/answering machines)- or write him a letter). I didn't find it scary, just ineffective for a long term relationship.

[John John]

You remind me of a friend of mine who was a "nice guy" years ago, never had any luck in the ladies department well into his late 20s/early 30s.

The aforementioned guy finally realised one day that complaining about how unfair things are isn't getting him anywhere and neither is being bitter. In fact it worked against him. So he decided to just be himself, took up a new hobby - salsa dancing, absolutely loved it and was good at it, that really helped his confidence, he met lots of women through that. And lost lots of weight too. He has had two serious gfs now and quite a few casual relationships, and got laid plenty. And trust me, he is not good looking by society standards.

 

Dougie, I was "that guy" too that notalady speaks of. Granted, I figured my sh*t out in my early 20s, but even after my breakup in late 2012, I've still been improving my game and my overall package. I do it for myself...because at the end of the day, all we have is ourselves, no matter how big of a "catch" any of us is. You will find that working on yourself frees you in many ways...you are living for yourself, improving your skills/confidence/fitness, and you'll start to see that women just start showing up. lol.

 

Work on yourself first Dougie...the girls will come!

[tiredofvampires]

You've made it clear in another thread, Dougie, that you really don't want to work on yourself, because you believe you shouldn't have to. You've said part of this is because you were always criticized by your parents (dad), and made to feel inadequate and as a result, you feel women should just "take you as you are" and you want to remain as you are to challenge women to take it or leave it.

 

So you're going to have to decide whether you want to continue that attitude. You can get all this advice about working on yourself, but in the end, you've said you have no motivation for these things, and in fact have psychological reasons why you don't WANT to "have to change". The concept of self-improvement is one you reject, first in theory, and then in your actions (and lack of action). You just want things around you to magically change, as you stay as you are. That's the bottom line. Oh, you'll keep asking what's wrong with what you're doing, how can you tweak the process in your favor, etc., but you're not interested in follow-through. Your questions are all about your game, but the subtext is, "I'm a victim and as a victim, when will the world give me a big break? How about the lottery for a guy for once?" You want different results being and doing exactly the same thing, and that's what they call insanity. You even said you challenge people by provoking them (in unflattering ways to yourself). You've even admitted you are a "quitter." You've rejected the suggestion of therapy for this self-obstruction for a long time now.

 

You've said take it (me) or leave it. And they're leaving it. So you can't really complain.

 

It almost seems like you don't recall making threads prior to whichever one you're on, so in case you've forgotten this novel, check back what you said about this subject:

 

[notalady]

I never followed the other thread but this is brilliantly put.

[notalady]

Yes, it's proven to work...for women...

 

Also, I just discovered that I've never been interested in women, apparently. My internet history is going to be shocked.

 

You are twisting my words. If a man doesn't ask a particular woman out, he is likely not interested in her. Is that clear enough?

 

Like I said, I've initiated contact before, I've asked guys out before, it just doesn't work. They are either not interested or not interested enough. You think it's working for women, maybe some women perhaps, but I for one would be happy to ask men out, initiate things and take the male role in that sense, as I'm the kind of person that go after what I want rather than sit around waiting for it to happen and I'm not afraid of rejection - that is, if men responded to that! But they don't. Most men don't like that. And back to the same premise, most men would have asked a woman out if he was interested in her.

[Moontiger]

OP, read this article. I think it will help you in your daily choices: link removed

[happpybear]

OP, read this article. I think it will help you in your daily choices: link removed

 

Haha, ya that is a pretty good read!...and I am inspired to knit a gigantic scarf/blanket like the one in the Lenny picture

[Dougie_D]

You are twisting my words. If a man doesn't ask a particular woman out, he is likely not interested in her. Is that clear enough?

 

Like I said, I've initiated contact before, I've asked guys out before, it just doesn't work. They are either not interested or not interested enough. You think it's working for women, maybe some women perhaps, but I for one would be happy to ask men out, initiate things and take the male role in that sense, as I'm the kind of person that go after what I want rather than sit around waiting for it to happen and I'm not afraid of rejection - that is, if men responded to that! But they don't. Most men don't like that. And back to the same premise, most men would have asked a woman out if he was interested in her.

 

You are right that most men will ask a woman out if they are interested in her, but most guys can be shy and be intimidated as well. So either the guy is incredibly shy and doesn't have the balls to do it, or he gets the signal that the girl is not interested in him. It depends on the guy you go after. If he is the alpha male type, he's been approached by women a lot and chooses to be picky. I have a friend that can be picky. So picky, that he rejected a girl because of her height. haha! But he gets hit on constantly..almost like a celebrity.

[Moontiger]

Its really helped me. I re-read every three or four months.

[notalady]

You are right that most men will ask a woman out if they are interested in her, but most guys can be shy and be intimidated as well. So either the guy is incredibly shy and doesn't have the balls to do it, or he gets the signal that the girl is not interested in him. It depends on the guy you go after. If he is the alpha male type, he's been approached by women a lot and chooses to be picky. I have a friend that can be picky. So picky, that he rejected a girl because of her height. haha! But he gets hit on constantly..almost like a celebrity.

 

Funnily enough, even a shy guy will get up the courage to ask a woman out if he's interested. Happened to me recently, a guy in his early 30s who never asked a girl out before asked me out upon repeated encouragement by his friends (and I believed him too, he seems the type). Even he said that girls who asked him out were always ones he's not interested in/ doesn't click with, and he is by no means an "alpha male". And therein lies the problem of woman asking men out.

[Dougie_D]

So you are agreeing that I need to get plastic surgery?..just like my parents?

 

I'm all about "self improving" myself mentally but not really physically. That's what apparently what everyone wants me to do. Lose weight, go to the gym, get a haircut, etc...

 

Because everyone else wants me to change, it makes me worst inside. I never think I'm ugly until someone else says it to me. I was never born to have natural beauty or whatever, and that bothers me a lot. It was like I was born to fail.

[Blue Spiral]

You are twisting my words. If a man doesn't ask a particular woman out, he is likely not interested in her. Is that clear enough?

 

It's perfectly clear, but I think it's an extremely dishonest position.

 

OP, read this article. I think it will help you in your daily choices: link removed

 

I rather prefer this one:

 

link removed

[notalady]

It's perfectly clear, but I think it's an extremely dishonest position.

 

Dishonest how?

[happpybear]

I'm out, this thread is getting weird.

 

-Peace

[Lonewing]

A guy interested in a girl does not ask her out for the exact same reasons why a girl interested in a guy does not ask him out. It's really as simple as that.

[sleepingdonut]

So you are agreeing that I need to get plastic surgery?..just like my parents?

 

I'm all about "self improving" myself mentally but not really physically. That's what apparently what everyone wants me to do. Lose weight, go to the gym, get a haircut, etc...

 

Because everyone else wants me to change, it makes me worst inside. I never think I'm ugly until someone else says it to me. I was never born to have natural beauty or whatever, and that bothers me a lot. It was like I was born to fail.

 

You are going to make TiredofVampires facepalm so hard she's going to hurt herself.

 

Your physical appearance isn't you, it's simply a reflection of some of what you are. Our bodies are possessions, our most precious, and how we treat them says a lot about our character and inner strength. I can say I've been very weak in the past and let myself go, but I'm working to correct that. I don't know what your weight situation is, but I really hate the modern message that tells overweight people to "just be happy with who you are". It's a crock because our bodies aren't who we are. However, the way we treat our bodies and take care of them does say something about who we are. A person that abuses themselves by eating whatever whenever is like a person that's given a really nice house, but then proceeds to completely trash the place and show no value or appreciation for what they were given.

 

You may not be the best looking guy in the world, but you can improve what you have by eating healthy and exercising. Just the same for a guy that has a crappy car, but at least takes the time to vacuum it, take it to the car wash, and take the best care he can of what he does have.

[notalady]

So you are agreeing that I need to get plastic surgery?..just like my parents?

 

I'm all about "self improving" myself mentally but not really physically. That's what apparently what everyone wants me to do. Lose weight, go to the gym, get a haircut, etc...

 

Because everyone else wants me to change, it makes me worst inside. I never think I'm ugly until someone else says it to me. I was never born to have natural beauty or whatever, and that bothers me a lot. It was like I was born to fail.

 

Again I never followed the other thread but I'm 100% certain no one is saying get plastic surgery. In fact a few people had said on here that you have the potential you just need to bring out the best of it. Also people were more suggesting ways to improve yourself mentally than anything, only a small proportion of the messages were focused on the physical aspect.

 

And what is wrong with taking care of yourself physically anyway? What is wrong with getting fit (if you are unfit that is), get a hair cut that is flattering and wear clothes that compliments you. Most women do it, and many many men do too. I will go out on a limb to say I am an attractive girl, but if I was to not do my hair, or get a unflattering hair cut, wear daggy clothes that doesn't suit or fit me, and/or gain a lot of weight which is unhealthy to begin with, I will immediately look significantly less attractive.

[IAmFCA]

Best line on ENA:

 

"You are going to make TiredofVampires facepalm so hard she's going to hurt herself."

 

I mean no disrespect to you, OP. I know you keep reworking the same issues, and that can be frustrating. To understand differently, you will have to accept some different truths about the world. While you work on challenging your paradigms, I wish you well.

 

 

 

Simply a great line.

[notalady]

That is well put and I completely agree with your analogies. I hate the whole "be happy with your body just the way it is" thing, to a degree it is correct, there are things you can't change and you should happily accept that, but there are things that you can change, being healthy and taking care of yourself is the minimum, telling someone over weight (except where they have a medical condition for it, which is not majority of the case) and clearly eating badly, not exercising etc to just "be happy with being unhealthy and the world can go screw themselves if they don't like it" kind of attitude is not helpful.

[Rosti87]

I add this at the risk of being flamed...

 

Dougie,

 

You do know that you are asking the same question as the previous. Just rephrased. You will receive the same answers.

 

... eight pages later and here we are....

[Doc Blaze]

So you are agreeing that I need to get plastic surgery?..just like my parents?

 

I'm all about "self improving" myself mentally but not really physically. That's what apparently what everyone wants me to do. Lose weight, go to the gym, get a haircut, etc...

 

Because everyone else wants me to change, it makes me worst inside. I never think I'm ugly until someone else says it to me. I was never born to have natural beauty or whatever, and that bothers me a lot. It was like I was born to fail.

 

 

 

When are you going to stop using excuses and starting fighting for something you want in life...everything you do..the job, hobbies, place to live, women, its always something

 

i am not good looking enough, my parents talked down to me.my friend has no prioblem getting girls.i cant hear well, i dont want a haircut...

 

 

Bro people here are helping you..did you ever notice that your threads get the most responses...do you know how many people have giving some really good input..

 

 

but you kinda skip around the subject and never fully take someones advice until you find another excuse on why girls dont like you and make a thread ending up

with nothing accomplished...just look at your thread history

 

we can help you but at the end of the day if you want it bad enough , you will stop making excuses and starting doing w/e u need to...its your life...

[tiredofvampires]

You are going to make TiredofVampires facepalm so hard she's going to hurt herself.

 

Hahaha, yeah, you got that right. And just when the facecast was coming off from the old injuries! Dougie's threads are high-risk, that's for sure.

 

Your physical appearance isn't you, it's simply a reflection of some of what you are. Our bodies are possessions, our most precious, and how we treat them says a lot about our character and inner strength. I can say I've been very weak in the past and let myself go, but I'm working to correct that. I don't know what your weight situation is, but I really hate the modern message that tells overweight people to "just be happy with who you are". It's a crock because our bodies aren't who we are. However, the way we treat our bodies and take care of them does say something about who we are. A person that abuses themselves by eating whatever whenever is like a person that's given a really nice house, but then proceeds to completely trash the place and show no value or appreciation for what they were given.

 

You may not be the best looking guy in the world, but you can improve what you have by eating healthy and exercising. Just the same for a guy that has a crappy car, but at least takes the time to vacuum it, take it to the car wash, and take the best care he can of what he does have.

 

This is fabulous. Love it. I love the analogies of the house and the guy with the car. Perfect. And I agree with what is said here -- while it may not be that popular to say, there's a difference between loving yourself unconditionally (thumbs up) and becoming apathetic about changing what can and should be changed (thumbs down). You're the latter, Dougie. Don't scramble them up. I find that when people give up on any aspect of self-improvement -- be that mental, emotional, or physical -- with the defense, "I'm happy with who I am" or "I want to be happy with myself as I am", it's really code for, "There's something so painful for me to face in order to change myself into something I like, and it's so difficult going that route, I'm just going to keep telling myself I'm happy the way things are until I believe myself."

 

In my experience, every time I've heard someone say that they were happy with/liked themselves as they were, despite flaws that were under their control to change which they didn't, at some point they revealed a level of buried shame. In fact, some of the people who proclaim they're fine as they are the loudest are the ones carrying the most shame and dissatisfaction about themselves, but they've really gotten so good at avoiding what hurts to face and why they don't face it, they're buying their own line. The ones who REALLY like themselves are the ones who stop accepting their own excuses and make the changes, like tough coaches rooting for themselves. Self-liking and self-loving include self-discipline.

 

So there's a lot of dishonesty and candy-coating out there that people use to avoid facing their issues. People should ALWAYS accept themselves for WHERE THEY ARE AT RIGHT NOW -- and at the very same time, gather the balls and guts to do the hard work of creating something better. It's a balancing act everyone in this world has to do. I'm talking about changes to become healthier in mind and body, not changes simply to be popular, trendier, or approved of as an extension of self-dislike (and unnecessary cosmetic surgery on a healthy, normal body would fall into this category, imo).

 

So the people who just sit there idling, saying, "I'll settle for the way it is" all have unresolved obstacles, and they're attempting to solve them by shoving their head in the sand and saying, all's well. I'm good, you're good, we're all good. That's not self-acceptance or self liking or happiness with yourself, and your threads are a testament to the fact that it's not working.

 

So you are agreeing that I need to get plastic surgery?..just like my parents?

 

Given my ongoing comments like those above and my THESIS in that other thread about seeing a therapist to deal with overcoming such messages and programming as this (as well as identifying other difficulties, such as perhaps undiagnosed Asperger's, so you can capitalize on what you have), I don't think I should dignify this question with an answer. I'm not going to treat you like the imbecile this question would have you looking like, given all my past commentary on how you need therapy to deal with the things your parents said.

 

I'm all about "self improving" myself mentally but not really physically.

 

So if you're "all about" mental self improvement, you'll go to a therapist, right? GREAT!! That would be a place to start, if you mean that. So that you can work on what's holding you back from making all the other changes, as mentioned above.

 

But here come the reasons for not seeing a therapist...

 

Here you come to ENA for advice, and hundreds of times people tell you to see a therapist, and you don't. Don't even think twice about it. Talk about "rejection"! How is that you giving a hoot about advice, or taking responsibility for being "all about mental self-improvement"? You can't do this on your own. It's too big. If it wasn't too big, you'd have figured it out by now, don't you think? Do you feel any wiser or any farther ahead mentally since the last thread? Or the thread before? Use evidence as evidence.

 

Ah, here come the reasons...