How often do women REJECT guys?

[poetryandlyrics]

In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the second half of your last sentence. Could you please explain? Just to clarify, I call myself a "nice guy" because a lot of women called me that first, and because I'd treat women better than the way certain other types of guys treat them. It's not a proud, arrogant "I'm nice!", it's a defensive, I-have-some-good-traits, I'm-not-as-bad-as-them "I'm nice!"

 

Maybe that's why I wouldn't truly see you as that.

 

"Nice guys" are "nice guys" because it's just the human standard of what everybody should be, and sometimes can be used as a tool. But truly good guys are motivated by being good for themselves with their own integrity, going beyond basic standards.

[abitbroken]

That's one explanation.

 

The other explanation is that, when they're at the height of their attractiveness, they can get the guys they really want--the jerks/bad boys. And as they get old, they can no longer compete with younger women and get those guys, so they retroactively make up a narrative about "growing up" and "getting serious" and settle for a beta provider-type. But it's not settling, it's got a nice little social-status narrative built into it ("Look at how mature I am now!"). (And then comes the next narrative: "Yeah, I'm just not happy with Mr. Beta, so I'm going to divorce him, take him for everything he has, and have an Eat-Pray-Love-style midlife cris--er, empowerment journey!")

 

I imagine that both things happen, but I don't know what the percentages would be. I probably don't want to know...

 

The other theory is that a guy is in his late teens to mid 20s, he sees the women at the bars, the regulars at concerts, etc, and only has goggles for the beautiful stunning woman that all his friends want, but when he himself gets into his late 20s and early 30s, he starts going beyond that and actually runs into or notices the woman who was more of a homebody all along while he was chasing club girl. So he forms the opinion that no women will date him unless they are in their later 20s and are out of their jerk seeking phase. He ignored her until he was ready to settle down, or just when he got a little older, he realized the lifestyle of drinking, clubbing, or being alone with his Super Mario Cart wasn't doing it for him and finds himself in different circles or tries to meet other types of women and goes the extra mile to join meetup groups, get involved in his hobbies or faith that will lead him to a larger group of people. I was the type of girl in my early 20s who would definitely date a guy who didn't look like Brad Pitt and wasn't the "bad boy," but that guy was too busy trying to keep up and impress his friends at 21 or whatever the case may be. But the non bad boys would not have met me because I was busy dog sitting for relatives, reading, going to class or whatever and was far away from the "scene."

 

So it goes both ways. The women who are running after the jerks at 20 are the women who still are running after them at 40. The women who prove that "women lose the jerks at 30" were women that never were interested in the bad boys - they just were never noticed themselves.

[Dougie_D]

In all seriousness, and returning attention to Dougie: you shouldn't be worried about relationships right now, my friend. You need more sexual experience/successful social interaction with women before you try anything that advanced. Therapy may help you with your personal issues, but it won't help you get laid, and it could take decades to sort out all your issues, assuming they even can. Using existential exploration to do something as basic as hooking up...it's like dropping a nuke on a gnat. If you make normal stuff complicated, it's going to stay complicated forever. Just find women that are into the type of guy you are, and then try not to **** it up.

 

That's a very good point. My lack of experience is part of of the reason why I think girls within my age may not even go for me too. My "skillset" is like a 17 year old. I'm 33. I remember being laughed at when I was 23 when I told people I never kissed a girl.

 

I feel like I have even more pressure on me because of my age. You're right, someone my age who is in a relationship most likely are thinking about kids. But if I go after someone who's 24 or so, they are strictly looking for a hot body. Let's be honest here, even if I had six pack, looked hot, etc... I will still have a HARD time relating to them. We would have less things and less views in common because their is a huge generation gap. I think the lowest I can go is maybe 28...but that's the time girls want to get serious.

 

I feel screwed anyhow you think about it.

 

Sidenote: Women and men don't mind telling a guy to lose weight, go the gym, etc.. to pick up women. But my question is:

Do women ever tell other women to lose weight or whatever to attract more men? I've never heard any girls tell their girlfriends that. It's always been, "he's a jerk, move on". There are just as many overweight women there are men, but overweight women can still attract "certain guys".

[Moontiger]

The only reason I started calling myself a nice guy is because a zillion women used that as a brushoff line. "Look, you're a really nice guy, but..." Translation: "You're perfectly inoffensive, but I don't want to **** you." I wish they'd told me that *before* they had me listen to all their problems, subtly flirting with me to make me think I had a chance with them.

 

 

 

The tone may not come off correct so I want to make it clear that I am NOT trying to be rude when I reply to this.

 

Sounds like a personal problem dude. Again, you choose to listen, choose to spend time, choose to not make your intentions clear, the woman thought she was just having a nice conversation. I've had this happen so many times when I think I'm just have a normal conversation with a guy and then out of the blue he suddenly wants to date me and I'm like "What just happened???" You say they flirt but I promise you are miss reading the signs.

 

If you like a someone its on YOU not THEM to to make your intentions clear and to value your time.

 

The "You are a nice guy but..." line is the gentle let down society has taught women to us. I could go really indepth with this but the article I posted early does a much better job. Here it is again, go to point 4: link removed

[Moontiger]

Couple of things Dougie, Notice that this is the only post you replied to even thought me and several other women (the best people to give a female perspective on your situation). Why is that? Are you sabatoging yourself again by ignoring advice that could help you get what you say you want?

 

There are two answer to your question. The first is the most important. 1) What does it matter if they do or don't? That has ZERO baring on your situation. So your using a red herring, trying to find a way to feel like a victim. 2) We tend to but not directly. My BFF gain quiet a bit of weight after a guy dumped her. I started asking her to came to the gym with me "Hey! Would you be my gym buddy? It would help me so much!" This again, is because society has taught women NOT to be very direct. That is slowly changing but it will be a long time until it does completely.

[Fudgie]

First of all, not 24 (or so) year olds want a "hot body". Trust me *points to my age*.

 

Now, the question is here, not whether you think you should ultimately pursue a relationship or not, but do you want to pursue one rather than just NSA sex? Because truthfully, you're going to need to do real meaningful work on yourself anyway.

 

1) For NSA sex, you need to be a prime physical specimen. Haircut, work out, lose weight, better clothes, better charm, etc.

 

2) For a relationship, you need to get into therapy and work on yourself on the inside in order to make yourself a better person.

 

See? Either way you're gonna have to work, so which do you prefer?

 

I really disagree with the idea that "you are so inexperienced you should just work on having sex first, don't focus on finding a relationship." I think it's bollocks. If you actually WANT a relationship, then work on yourself to find one. You don't need to sleep around with x # of women prior to that. I just find it pretty humorous because we all tell women "wait for the right one" but we tell men "just get it over with, spread your seeds, THEN think about a relationship". Double standards.

 

With all due respect Dougie, you're not a female so you're not going to hear what girls say to girls. I used to be morbidly obese and now I am overweight (but losing) and in the past, I have been told by other women to lose weight. Not by casual friends or anything like that, but people close to me, and most were tactful. It's a sensitive subject. But yeah, it's not like women never suggest to other women that they should do that.

 

Overweight guys can get girls and overweight girls can get guys. However, it's all about (a previous thread title of yours) What do you bring to the table? Being overweight is usually a negative trait so you need some good positive ones to outshine it. I've noticed that overweight people who do well in dating (probably myself included, I'd think) have other things to offer: personality, integrity, morals, sense of humour, fun to be around, etc. I definitely believe it's because of my personality and who I am that has made it easier for me to find dates or to have guys interested in me after talking to me in the past, despite me being over 300 lb. Does it limit your dating pool? Yes.

[Dougie_D]

I don't even know what NSA sex is?

 

Maybe I need to clarify this. I want to have a relationship, but I don't plan on staying in it unless I get the feeling the girl and I are on the same page...and I mean like experiencing new things. And I would assume that will be rare in my life. The new things to me might not be the new things to her. Kissing, sex, and dating in general will be brand new to me and VERY EXCITING! I'll be learning as we go. She might not want to deal with that...maybe at first she'll think it's cute, but after awhile she might think the sex is boring or bad. And that's because the lack of experience I have. If she's not into doing certain things because she either doesn't want to do it or she's "over it" then it's time for me to move on. I need a girl that has super patience. Most women in my age group don't have the patience for that.

If anything I need to have "mini relationships" I guess. Honestly, I feel like that's becoming the norm anyways. 5 months here, 2 months there, 1 year there, etc...

 

Even if I'm super hot, I still think the lack of experience will still haunt me. Let's be honest... if you kiss someone that is amazing looking but doesn't know what he/she is doing you pretty much get rid of him/her. Someone who's 33 and never kissed is probably the biggest RED FLAG on the planet regardless of looks.

[Fudgie]

NSA = no strings attached. My bad, should have explained that.

 

If you want to have a relationship, then that's what you should pursue, not this NSA business. You know, even for people who aren't new to dating, dating and getting to know new people is STILL exciting. I know it is for me.

 

But you need to put forth the work in order to make yourself desirable (physically/mentally/emotionally) to these women and so you can be the best partner that you can be. THAT'S what is important. Not the kissing bit. I've kissed a few guys who were "new" at it and yes, they took a little time to get better but you know, I was fine with that because I cared about them.

 

Any girl who gets rid of you because you aren't Fabio at kissing is not worth your time. She wasn't that into you to begin with.

[John John]

Dougie, I think Fudgie really laid it out for you perfectly. You seem to flip flop on what it is that you want (NSA sex or relationship)...but either way, you've got to be willing to do your homework first. If you're not willing to improve yourself, you aren't going to get anywhere in either of those two scenarios that you want. And until you're willing to start working on yourself, you will ask us the same questions, and we will give you the same answers.

[John John]

Dougie, let me just add...I think that most guys who do end up eventually doing quite well with women started at nothing or close to it. Myself, our good old boy Thors (who will either kill me or just laugh if he reads this), and countless other guys I know. We all learn and improve at different paces. The biggest womanizer I knew in college was overweight and shy in high school. He got in shape, worked on his confidence, and was able to reap the rewards. When I was in college, I wasn't nearly as fit or confident as I am now. I had no idea how to talk to women and had no idea how things as subtle as body language go such a long way.

 

After I graduated college, I started working out more, experimented with different hairstyles (I still cringe when I look at old pics of me with the blowout - YUCK), spruced up my wardrobe and developed my own preppy-ish style, and read books on emotional intelligence and body language. I also worked on slowing my speech down, because as a New Yorker and a generally bright guy - I tend to speak VERY fast. And one person had the guts to tell me that I need to dial that down, and I did.

 

The point is, you would be very surprised to learn that even some of your womanizer friends weren't always that great with girls, even if they are good looking (or maybe they improved their looks). Female attraction is a complex function of many things, and there's no one size fits all strategy, and so you really have to do a complete overhaul to maximize your chances with the most women possible. As you do this and start improving your luck with women, your confidence will increase, and so too will your opportunities with women.

 

I read an article not too long ago that spoke about how ours is the "take me as I am" generation...many women and men feel entitled to relationships/sex no matter what their flaws are. That article attempted to challenge this with the notion that, if we want the best luck with the opposite sex and the most meaningful and satisfying relationships possible, we have to improve ourselves first. So Dougie, if you just stand there because you don't have the motivation...you aren't going to achieve your goals. You absolutely must work on yourself first, even if it annoys you that you have to "change." And remember, you're not really fundamentally changing who are you, but improving yourself wherever possible.

[Jean-Luc]

I would agree with the article that that is how life and other people truly are and what they expect from you. However the author and the article seem very over dramatic and over bloated. One thing he doesn't take into consideration is that attractiveness does go a LONG way into rather you get a job or get a relationship and are able to keep them. Attractive people are hired and able to keep jobs even if they are mediocre at it based almost solely on their attractiveness(and to how much money they have as well). Same goes with relationships a lot of the times from what I've seen. I've noticed that when you're attractive you can get away with a lot more then when you're not and you can get a hell of a lot more chances when you are attractive then when you're not(same goes for if you have money). I know this from experience myself. I've messed up with girls and had them come back and admit later on it was at least partially because they found me attractive(though we were still only friends for various reasons). It plays a pretty big role in a lot of things in life sometimes. Also the fact that the article comes from cracked in my opinion makes it a lot less legitimate then if it was from a much more reputable source. Just seems like an jerk who has his finger stuck up his ass despite being somewhat right. People shoving down your throat that you need to improve isn't going to solve anything and is ultimately most of the time none of their business. Again it has to come from within and something that you yourself what to do.

 

My mom is a single mom and has been all her life. I've supported her the last about 6 years or so because she hasn't been able to find a job or a relationship. We have been in the past on the street on two different occasions and have struggled with not having enough to eat and with money and transportation for a lot of our lives. We also lost all of our stuff a couple of years ago and had to move in with my diabetic elderly grandfather who is broke and divorced himself. My mom hasn't been able to find a job now partially because of the fact that she has very bad teeth due to never having good enough insurance to get her teeth fixed. She is a hard working person who has excelled in her job very well and has done without in the past. Yet this doesn't really matter when it comes to who gets to keep jobs. She's been laid off from companies solely because she was a single mom instead of the people who do average or mediocre work and yet come from double income families. I myself have noticed that it doesn't matter how hard working or ambitious or good of a person I may be. The fact that I still live with mom no matter the reason with no car and no benefit to anybody else outside of myself and my family doesn't matter to other people. The fact that I have a lot of "baggage" is a put off. So I just figure why care? Focus on what I need to focus on and worry about improving myself and bettering myself. Not for other people but for myself and my family. If I'm going to be good at whatever I do(which is currently trying to get a degree in computer science and physics) I should do it for myself not for the benefit of others. When the time comes for me to be in a relationship with someone I really like then I will start thinking of them as well. The problem I've had over the last several years is going up and talking to someone that I like. Because of everything that has happened in the past and everything that is going on now I figure right away it won't work(part of the reason anyway) and yet I would love to have someone to spend time with and have fun with. I've never had that.

 

I think the author and website of that article is something I can't take too seriously because for one its not like this is real news to me that I didn't know about before and two his a bit overly bloated and dramatic(as I said before) about the whole thing. People want to think that the way we have everything set up is perfect or at least almost perfect the way it is and that society should be like this. That everything is working out extremely well because of it. Yet from what I see the majority of the time it is and it isn't. The fact is there are still people who are poor and go without for the sake of others greed and ambition. The fact that they don't have anything to offer makes them overlooked because well they're poor and struggling. Children in Africa who are dying at the age of 10 or younger and yet nobody really notices because those people have nothing of value to offer so they don't matter. People can act like they have sympathy but when it comes down to it if they had to have some of their wealth and dreams taken away so these people could live better lives too and be given opportunities they would try to pass it on to someone else to do it. I'm kind of going off on a tangent here but my overall point is that I think society needs to change how they view things and how they go about things in some areas if we are going to be better and advance as a whole.

 

Like I've said before as well, a lot of nice people aren't just nice they have other things going for them but that doesn't really seem to be good enough regardless(especially in the teens to late twenties age range). A lot of girl's don't like guys who are nice because they are too predictable and too boring. They are steady and stable and know what they want in life and go for it and that's what they're all about. Most women it seems don't want that until they're older and ready to settle down because its very straight forward and not exciting at any age below the thirties. I'm not saying ALL women are like that, however from my experience and from what I've seen the majority of them are, rather anybody want's to believe that or not.

[Rosti87]

The last paragraph is interesting. I sometimes feel like the Millennium Generation (not all mind you) tends to feel entitled to stuff that does not have guarantees (e.g., relationships, work terms on a job). There are literally symposiums on this trend at management conventions.

[Rosti87]

Exclusion in the United States would include certain ethnic groups but most would expect them to accept their lot and get on with it.

[John John]

The last paragraph is interesting. I sometimes feel like the Millennium Generation (not all mind you) tends to feel entitled to stuff that does not have guarantees (e.g., relationships, work terms on a job). There are literally symposiums on this trend at management conventions.

 

I agree with you. It's one thing to get frustrated if you are working on yourself (which Dougie doesn't seem to want to) and still not getting results...that's understandable. But to think that you're entitled to a relationship exactly as you are (fixable flaws and all) or a good job with no education...that is when I just roll my eyes, and agree with the article.

[FlashEng1]

I agree with you. It's one thing to get frustrated if you are working on yourself (which Dougie doesn't seem to want to) and still not getting results...that's understandable. But to think that you're entitled to a relationship exactly as you are (fixable flaws and all) or a good job with no education...that is when I just roll my eyes, and agree with the article.

 

Combine marketing and advertising, silly cliches, misguided thinking and parenting, societal demands, and the many other forms of entitlement; and that's exactly what you get, agreed!

 

We grow up believing we are perfectly flawed. We are are unique and special. Our differences are what makes us, us. If someone doesn't like you for X, Y, or Z, then that's their problem, not yours. Too bad for them.

 

But then again, who here has or hasn't tried to live the opposite. Where you DO go out and try to change. You DO try to fit in and do what everyone else does because maybe you're the one who's wrong and everyone else is right.. or happy.. or better? How to change then? Such a conundrum we live in... Wish there was one ultimate answer.. One truth that would fit into every situation absolutely and leave no doubt to the other side.. That "what if"..

 

Although I don't know and will continue to grow and learn, I've seen that with many people, it's simply a situational awareness kind of thing.. Knowing where you are in life, without judgement or reverie; your exact position and placement... to where you want to be, and somehow processing the information given to you, in a way that will lead you to the life you want and deserve (which are the same thing! You deserve to get what you want!).

[John John]

You make some very good points and raise some very good questions.

 

As far as dating/relationships are concerned, I have always believed (much moreso after my breakup...MCJD growth, holla!) that in order to attract the best possible person for you, YOU have to be the best possible person you can be. This is what motivates me to keep working on my fitness (like Fergie), my career, education, personality...all of the ingredients that go into making one a catch. As an added bonus, constantly striving to be better forces me to grow, and in turn, I become much more confident regardless of having a woman in my life.

[Jean-Luc]

I think that what most people think is that there are thousands if not millions of other people who can offer the same things that they do and that they want someone to like them for who they are in terms of personality and interests. They want someone to like them for who they fundamentally are as a person. For me that has been the biggest thing that has made me think that either people can like me and accept me for who I am or they can't and don't and probably never will so whatever.

[notalady]

I think that what most people think is that there are thousands if not millions of other people who can offer the same things that they do and that they want someone to like them for who they are in terms of personality and interests. They want someone to like them for who they fundamentally are as a person. For me that has been the biggest thing that has made me think that either people can like me and accept me for who I am or they can't and don't and probably never will so whatever.

 

I don't know that if most people think that. However I don't think that thousands and millions out there offer the same as one particular person does. Sure many millions do share one or a few of the same positive attributes, but what each person has to offer is a complete package, and that is vastly different from person to person. Sure you want people to accept you as who you are, fundamentally. But many things about a person can be improved. I can say most people I know from 10-15 years ago and are still friends with have grown up to change for the better, whether it be appearance/style, or behaviourally, maturity, confidence etc.

 

Flash and MCJD's point was that you need to be the best you can be, and many of us do strive to be that. And I wholeheartedly agree with MCJD, I also think that to attract the best person I can, I need to be the best person I can be, so I never stopped improving myself in all aspects, and never will. To me life is all about endless learning and improving, you are never too old to learn and improve and there is never a suitable age to be "set in your own ways". To me, if you stop moving forward, you're going backwards.

[Blue Spiral]

Sounds like a personal problem dude. Again, you choose to listen, choose to spend time, choose to not make your intentions clear,

 

You've read my posts, so I'm guessing you know how blunt/tactless I am. I made my intentions extremely clear.

 

Couple of things Dougie, Notice that this is the only post you replied to even thought me and several other women (the best people to give a female perspective on your situation). Why is that? Are you sabatoging yourself again by ignoring advice that could help you get what you say you want?

 

If someone wants to know how to catch gazelles, they should ask a lion, not the gazelles. The advice you're giving him will help other women, in the sense that you want him to pay a lot of attention to them and spend a lot of money on them (dating), with no guarantee of getting anything in return. You talk a lot about vague "personal growth" and not the cold hard basics of "This is how you get what you want", and, completely coincidentally, that "personal growth" involves nothing he wants and everything you want.

[FlashEng1]

You've read my posts, so I'm guessing you know how blunt/tactless I am. I made my intentions extremely clear.

 

 

 

If someone wants to know how to catch gazelles, they should ask a lion, not the gazelles. The advice you're giving him will help other women, in the sense that you want him to pay a lot of attention to them and spend a lot of money on them (dating), with no guarantee of getting anything in return. You talk a lot about vague "personal growth" and not the cold hard basics of "This is how you get what you want", and, completely coincidentally, that "personal growth" involves nothing he wants and everything you want.

 

Mmm, another example of a red herring analogy ... If you want to catch a woman, you ask the woman what she wants, not the guys chasing her. Only you will be sleeping with her, only you will wake up next to her, only you will marry her.. Make HER happy, not the other guys. A lion could care less what a gazelle wants or requires to be caught... different situation with women

 

It's that sort of thinking, that slowly directs you away from the result(s) you want with women, etc.

[sleepingdonut]

I am the lion, she is the gazelle

I am the lion, she is the gazelle

*psychs self up*

I AM THE LION, SHE IS THE GAZELLE

 

Wait, what?

[icecreamaddict]

Where did 7/10 come from? DId you do a focus group or blind study?

[kamurj]

The thread has run its course.