family courts and child support us broken and gender biased.

[Seraphim]

I thought about this , a part time job that would have me be paying 800-1000 and claim only the part time job..

 

Im not doing it too take away from my kid.. or to cheat them.. if kid needs, clothes, food, whatever im there to provide endlessly and anytime, i just dont believe a kid needs 1900 a month. And im not gonna support the system.. its the princapal of it..

 

I got 200 a month in child support in the 90s, and because the both contributed 200 i always had, food, clothes, shoes, books summer camps..

 

I truly feel 600-800 on my part and she adds 600-800. Thats 1200-1600 together, it would bring a good life to the kid..

 

Me given her 1900 and she gets the kid and im left with the pieces.. is just rewarding her behvior..

 

You keep going on about her behavior. Why do you feel that she needed to be with you if she didn't want to be? I agree if she actively tries to keep your child from you that is bad behaviour. But just her leaving you is NOT bad behavior. You cannot keep her held captive with you if she doesn't want to be with you.

[Fudgie]

If he owes 1350 with those numbers, it's a deficit like you said. And if those expenses aren't discretionary (house, car, insurance, groceries) I don't see how he's able to afford that at all.

 

Now, I could expenses as non discretionary and very limited going out but it's clear that OP could possibly go broke over this, or at least have a very poor quality of life that may impact his work.

 

It's sad the courts do this, that's for sure. I can see why men take the lower job. If the judge allows it, it's the only way for some men to make the payments.

 

The question is: if he can't afford it, what's better? A higher payment that may not get paid? Or a lower one that will get paid because it's affordable.

 

It's honestly not as bad as everyone thinks it is. It's not always done in spite to screw over the kid. Sometimes it has to be done to afford the payments.

 

Obviously if the judge disapproves you're in the hole but you can be in the hole anyway

[agent1607307371]

I'm sorry 22n32, but I think that in all your fantasising about having this perfect little family, you have completely lose contact with the reality of having a kid. Nappies are expensive, food is expensive (or is your ex to be eating poor quality food while breastfeeding?), clothes are expensive, medicine is expensive, water and heating bills are expensive.

 

Children are financial blackholes and that's why it's best to have a stable relationship before you get anyone knocked up.

 

 

As for the rest of it, you keep talking about her keeping you from being a father. The baby isn't even born yet. Stop working yourself up over something that hasn't even happened yet.

[annie24]

I thought about this , a part time job that would have me be paying 800-1000 and claim only the part time job..

 

Im not doing it too take away from my kid.. or to cheat them.. if kid needs, clothes, food, whatever im there to provide endlessly and anytime, i just dont believe a kid needs 1900 a month. And im not gonna support the system.. its the princapal of it..

 

I got 200 a month in child support in the 90s, and because the both contributed 200 i always had, food, clothes, shoes, books summer camps..

 

I truly feel 600-800 on my part and she adds 600-800. Thats 1200-1600 together, it would bring a good life to the kid..

 

Me given her 1900 and she gets the kid and im left with the pieces.. is just rewarding her behvior..

 

again, I think you need to talk to someone else because I do not see where you are coming up with this $1900 number. It's not the number any of us are finding on the MA child support calculators.

[SapphireNoir10]

Yeah babies are expensive. The start up cost of the pram/cot/nursery/bedding/furniture etc is pretty hefty. Then buying clothes every couple of months as they grow so fast. Food/milk/nappies/wipes. It all adds up

 

A baby is hard work. I don't know many women that would choose to do it alone unless they had a fairly good reason as it really is hard enough with two parents, let alone doing it alone. All the waking up and feeds and nappy changes.

[annie24]

If he owes 1350 with those numbers, it's a deficit like you said. And if those expenses aren't discretionary (house, car, insurance, groceries) I don't see how he's able to afford that at all.

 

Now, I could expenses as non discretionary and very limited going out but it's clear that OP could possibly go broke over this, or at least have a very poor quality of life that may impact his work.

 

It's sad the courts do this, that's for sure. I can see why men take the lower job. If the judge allows it, it's the only way for some men to make the payments.

 

I'm just going off what he told us. $4000 a month, $2800 in expenses (i'm assuming he's including ALL his living expenses in this figure, including food, gas, and entertainment). So, that comes out to $1200 extra each month. even if he and his gf were still together, he would still have to make sacrifices for the child (getting a less expensive car, cheaper phone plan, getting rid of TV, whatever) to make sure that the kid's expenses are paid for.

[annie24]

Yeah babies are expensive. The start up cost of the pram/cot/nursery/bedding/furniture etc is pretty hefty. Then buying clothes every couple of months as they grow so fast. Food/milk/nappies/wipes. It all adds up

 

A baby is hard work. I don't know many women that would choose to do it alone unless they had a fairly good reason as it really is hard enough with two parents, let alone doing it alone. All the waking up and feeds and nappy changes.

 

and that's all for a healthy child!! if the child is special needs or is very sick, the costs go up exponentially.

 

In my city, schools are very very bad. Most people send their kids to a private school (about $18,000 a year!!)

[Seraphim]

If he owes 1350 with those numbers, it's a deficit like you said. And if those expenses aren't discretionary (house, car, insurance, groceries) I don't see how he's able to afford that at all.

 

Now, I could expenses as non discretionary and very limited going out but it's clear that OP could possibly go broke over this, or at least have a very poor quality of life that may impact his work.

 

It's sad the courts do this, that's for sure. I can see why men take the lower job. If the judge allows it, it's the only way for some men to make the payments.

But it is discretionary Fudgie. He can move to a place that costs less money. He can drive a car that costs less money. He can get a pay and talk cell phone that costs next to nothing. He doesn't need Internet and cable. See what I'm getting at? He CAN reduce his living costs. And it is not about HER it is about his CHILD. He cheerfully made that baby.

 

My mother actually didn't eat so we could eat. She didn't eat because my dad wouldn't pay his child-support on time or sometimes not at all. Yet he always had money to go to McDonald's or other restaurants. He always had money to drive a car. He always had money to smoke weed and drink with his brother. But then he would whine and cry to my mother about how he didn't have enough to make his child support.

[Fudgie]

I guess it depends where he lives. My boyfriend and I have just under $2k in expenses each month, most non discretionary. Getting rid of the TV okay... But is he going to have to downgrade to a ghetto apartment? Sell his car completely and get a bike? Not buy fresh meat and vegetables?

 

Wouldn't that make him sick?

 

Not mention he'd be getting zero savings.

 

Those numbers are ridiculous ($1350) and it would throw him under a bus. I'm so glad I'm not a man because I'd have to opt for the lower job just to get by and make payments.

[SapphireNoir10]

Fudgie. The money is going to the child he helped create. People should think of all these things BEFORE they have unprotected sex.

[Seraphim]

I guess it depends where he lives. My boyfriend and I have just under $2k in expenses each month, most non discretionary. Getting rid of the TV okay... But is he going to have to downgrade to a ghetto apartment? Sell his car completely and get a bike? Not buy fresh meat and vegetables?

 

Not mention he'd be getting zero savings.

 

Those numbers are ridiculous ($1350) and it would throw him under a bus. I'm so glad I'm not a man because I'd have to opt for the lower job just to get by and make payments.

 

But that's the thing if you want to have kids you have to pay. It would cost him that much to raise a child anyway. He's kidding himself if he thinks it's going to cost less. I just gave people the amount I paid just to feed my ONE KID, just to feed him alone nothing else. It is close to $500 a month just for food. That's not even his portion of housing ,what I pay year in clothes ,what I pay to drive him around ,what I need to wash his clothes ,what I pay for him to have a shower ect..

 

So even if he did live with his girlfriend and his baby he is not going to be putting out less money!

[annie24]

Those numbers are ridiculous ($1350) and it would throw him under a bus. I'm so glad I'm not a man because I'd have to opt for the lower job just to get by and make payments.

 

That still makes no sense. If he takes a lower paying job, yes, he pays less in child support, BUT then he has less money for himself!! Seriously, that math does not make any sense whatsoever. He could take a job that pays $2000 a month, then pay $500 a month in child support (according to the same calculator I found). But then he has to downsize his life, pay all of his expenses on $1500 a month. OK - please explain that math. HOW is that a good idea??

 

If he were still with his gf, and they were raising the child, he would still have to pay for the child and the upbringing. He would still have to scale back some aspect of his lifestyle.

[Fudgie]

But he shouldn't be paying her "what it would cost for one person to do it all alone". It should not just be his money toward the child. She should be doing it too.

 

I do think the cost is higher, as you said, as the kid ages but an infant isn't going to cost $1350/month.

 

Im sorry I just have a very big moral objection to throwing this man into poverty. Yes, he made the kid but he wants to stay with the woman and make it work. She didn't and now these numbers are very bad.

 

Look, if he were a deadbeat dad I wouldn't care but he's clearly not.

 

I may be accused of "spiting the kid" with my previous advice but in my mind, he's only going to be able to afford to support the child AT All he drastically reduces his lifestyle and that includes his job too.

 

God help him if he has to move into the ghetto and drop his health insurance in order to afford the payments. If he has to do that, I consider that the system has failed him immensely and I find that horribly sad.

[Mercurial Girl]

 

Those numbers are ridiculous ($1350) and it would throw him under a bus. I'm so glad I'm not a man because I'd have to opt for the lower job just to get by and make payments.

 

The number is assuming mom has no income whatsoever and assuming he doesn't pay additional monies towards health care or day care.

 

Day care alone for a baby under 12wks is easily $2000 around here, I presume it's somewhere around the same in a state like Mass. If he were paying half of the daycare costs, that'd leave $350 for the rest of child rearing expenses. Not to mention, if he were paying half of full-time day care, he wouldn't be paying $1350/m in child support. His contributions are reduced as her income increases since she would be earning an income while the baby is at day care.

 

Sorry, $1350 is a drop in the bucket when it comes to the costs of raising a child.

 

ETA: a quick google search revealed infant care in Boston can cost upwards of $2500/m. So if mom contributes with full-time employment his child support bill will be lower, but he's then responsible for a portion of the day care bill - and he would be responsible for that whether or not he is in a relationship.

[annie24]

Fudgie - I don't see how this man would be going into poverty. He said himself that he has $1200 extra a month, and if that is the case, then $1350 a month is not unreasonable. This really doesn't qualify as poverty. It is in his best interest to get a good lawyer, get joint custody, and then his payments will be lower. Please, OP, don't do something stupid and quit your job because you will just be screwing yourself over. And the kid too.

[Seraphim]

And kids don't stay babies forever. As I explained with my food bill. We also recently had to buy our son a new bed ,$1200. School uniforms $400. Paper,pens ,pencils other school supplies $200. School trips and dances $500. And that is just going off the top of my head for one minute.

 

Not only that OP, if you think that your child won't know they were stiffed for their childcare they will. Do you think I appreciate my dad for starving my mother? No ,I sure as heck don't. My mother worked her backside off to give us the best that she could. And eventually she became a much better provider then my dad could ever dream of being. No what I remember was that all he cared about was his own needs.

[Fudgie]

I do agree that he should talk to a lawyer before possibly modifying his income. If he could get the payment lower to something more doable, then that's good. Joint custody would be the best, if the mom is cooperative and doesn't yank up road blocks.

 

I have no idea how much of his expenses are discretionary but if they are not included much in there, then I still don't think 1350 is reasonable.

[annie24]

It is really in the OP's best interest to cooperate with the mom. I hope that they can come up with a plan to co-parent in a way that makes the kid feel loved and all of the kid's bills are paid.

 

Like Victoria said - kids have a lot of expenses and bills. $1350 doesn't sound crazy to me in a high cost state like Mass. And as victoria states, once the child starts school, there are all of those expenses to consider.

[Fudgie]

OP I wish you the best. Please see a lawyer and don't let them bleed you too dry.

[Fudgie]

Sorry if I offended anyone btw.

 

It was not my intention to come accross as wanting to spite the child. I believe men should pay for children they make, especially when they make them willingly.

 

I worry about men ending up living in bad places with very little due to payments, despite wanting to be a good dad. To me, that is sad too.

[SapphireNoir10]

I agree that is sad too. The whole situation is unfortunate.

 

OP, get in contact with a different lawyer. See if anything can be done.

 

Are you civil with the babies mother?

[Seraphim]

Sorry if I offended anyone btw.

 

It was not my intention to come accross as wanting to spite the child. I believe men should pay for children they make, especially when they make them willingly.

 

I worry about men ending up living in bad places with very little due to payments, despite wanting to be a good dad. To me, that is sad too.

I am not offended at all Hun. Yes, it is sad for everyone. Everyone in this deal gets screwed. That is all that I am saying. I just wish fathers AND mothers would THINK about what a child costs before they have one. And saying that the mother has it easy is just not true. Often mothers and kids live in poverty too. It is crappy all around when families don't have enough to go around. Put when you are a parent, mother or father you just have to suck it up if you made that baby.

[shes2smart]

So my husband has 3 kids from his first marriage.

 

Court-ordered child support when they got divorced was $800 something/mo for CS and another $400/mo for alimony for 3 years. She decided it was the perfect time to go school and not work....he was in a retail job that paid $9.50 an hour. When I met him, he was living with his grandmother and using a vehicle his grandparents had given him to get back and forth to work.

 

The ex-wife decided he should have nothing to do with kids, so she moved out of state and pretty much disappeared. CS does not have a current address for her. If they need to find her, they end up calling us, then I get online and spend 15-20 minutes googling stuff and (fortunately) I've always been able to find some sort of trail -- usually an employer or former employer. I've had to do this frequently because girlfriend does not pay her bills either....and the bill collectors seem to have no problem finding us. She skipped out on a mortgage and a car loan that were taken out when they were still married, and I ended up being involved ($$-wise) in the clean-up of those messes.....even though I had nothing to do with either loan.

 

Since she's pretty much in hiding, my husband's footing the bill for health insurance that never gets used (court ordered to for him to provide it for the kids) and, since a good 1/3 or so of his check goes to CS, guess who ends up footing the bill for most of mine and his living expenses? It has been this way the entire time I have been involved with him (nearly 12 years, married 11 years). Next year the first one turns 18 and is off CS.

 

Y'know what? You suck it up and you deal with it because that's the hand you got, and the choices you made. These are not my children. I haven't even met them. Yet, in an indirect way, I've been footing the bill for them for the...oh...about a quarter of MY life now. Which is truly twisted because I never wanted children.

 

So, put on your big boy britches and play the hand you were dealt (and were partially responsible for creating).

 

I will leave you with this thought: If you & your baby mama go into this as adversaries and looking for a fight, you will only succeed in making the lawyers richer and making things harder on yourself. It'd be best if both of you could put aside your differences and try to act like reasonable adults. It's not going to be pleasant, but it sure won't be any easier if you're at each other's throats.

[Seraphim]

I agree, that is a miserable hand too. When my mom married my first step dad she had to help him pay child support for his 3 kids with his first wife yet my dad was always late with his. Then when she married my second step dad she helped him raise his 14 year old daughter because her mother was dead. She helped raise her from 14 to 19 when she left home.

[Fudgie]

You're right Victoria, it sucks for everyone. Everyone suffers here.