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My husband doesn't love me anymore. :(


Firiel

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"Honey, you're his wife. that is what marriage is, moving out from your family and forming your OWN family with your wife and your own kids. If he can't accept that his wife and marriage are more important than hanging out with his family and chatting up women and old ex-GFs, and doing volunteer work for some job that axed him, then he just isn't ready to be married"

 

 

This.

 

You get married, you become a family. If there is any reasonable way to be together and live together, you live with your husband/wife. You don't decide it's too hard and hide behind your family/friends/hobbies, etc...

 

I'm feeling angry for you now, F. I want to know what he does to support you. Everything has been about him so far.

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I think this is really good advice Firiel. They always say when there are troubles to go back to the beginning and I think you should. Confidence is the sexiest thing and I think you are lacking that not only in your marriage (which is NOT all your fault, and for obvious reasons you are) but in yourself, as a woman but fore most, a wife. You can talk until the cows come home but at the end of the day, it's actions that speak louder than words. This also means him as well, although perhaps in you doing it he will feel more secure in himself as a husband as well. And naturally continue counseling.

 

And I tend to agree with Hers on her perception of the matter and like Sherry, am angry FOR you. I don't think blame should be thrown but I do think you are taking more blame than you should in this situation.

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Firiel,

You’re scared and should be… you’re infinitely slow boil, back door approach makes you weak and look weak.

Weak people are never respected and always end up a doormat. He does not respect you therefore you cannot stay married to him.

 

So does this mean you fight and yell? Absolutely not! Matter fact the less you say the better!

This man knows every nuance of your nature… you must change the game and no one can do if for you.

 

Here something I said to my wife… (Calm, quiet and strangely confident. Like I had a secret.)

Me – You got me all wrong Honey. At this moment you are looking at the last person on earth who stand in you way. (Being with my ex best friend.)

Her – What’s that mean?

Me – What I mean, is at this moment you wouldn’t have to twist my arm to be the best man at your wedding with him.

Her – I don’t understand you! (She was back on her heels holding back tears. You see F. we too can read our spouses and take away their power!)

Me – It’s simple Honey, I’ve gone as low as I’m going to go with you… you can continue down into the slime without me. You deserve it.

 

She walked out trying to maintain... I saved my marriage that day.

 

Don’t be afraid to demand the life you want! With his one foot outside the door… give him a shove! You’re the only person who can do it. Let him look around out there… happily give him his freedom. Don’t be surprised if he wants back in.

 

From where I sit… It’s your only hope.

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I agree it's not a cakewalk living with someone who has anxiety, is not a picture of la joie de vivre all the time, etc.

 

But having said that, it seems to me your husband has a particularly low threshold of tolerance for discomfort. Which is a bit worrisome, because as others have pointed out, marriages are often asked to weather even more than this (and when I say "this", in large part I mean your feeling about the drag you've been). What would he do if something catastrophic happened?

 

It seems to me that he's not completely aware of the truism that other people actually are not responsible for one's own happiness. Yes, their company can affect you. But he has to actually take responsibility for his own happiness, as an autonomous person. If we love a person, their happiness is linked with ours, as is their dissatisfaction, but there needs to be something shored up from an internal place that supercedes that. Until and unless he understands this, he will be misplacing his feelings of dissatisfaction and seeking to find his happiness in other people, be that family or other women, or whomever.

 

As you pointed out, he has some power here. It's not intentional and malicious of course, but because you've taken the responsibility (as you should) for whatever part you're playing, it's almost like you've been marked as "the problem", where he is simply "the reactor to the problem" -- and that's not fair. There is a threat that he's presented here, hanging over you. It's almost like a kind of probation. "Show me that you can fix the problem, so that I can stop reacting to it. Show me that being married to you, I'll start to feel like I need to feel." This is not to say that you shouldn't help him get needs met -- but it's almost a subtle emotional abdication for him in another sense, and that's what bothers me about this. And I think it should bother you, too, which I sense that it is.

 

On the other hand, when you weren't supporting him as he would have liked, why was that? Was that because his career choices are ones that you don't feel are realistically going to lead to the goals he has? Or you have a problem with the goals themselves? Or because you resent that he's pulling less weight, or think the division of labor wouldn't balance out? Or something else?

 

I've learned some tools about communicating (having been in couples therapy briefly myself, but also having attended seminars) that I've found very helpful. And I think this should be the goal of any good couples therapist: not just discussing what each person needs, and coming out with honest answers and compromises, but learning how to talk to eachother. It's a very, very specific skill in itself, apart from any particular subject. Right now, one of your biggest problems as I see it is that you guys don't know how to talk to eachother. There are some special methods I've learned, and maybe you've heard of them -- but one classic one is to have a set format where one person is given the floor and allowed to talk however long they need about 1. What they feel and 2. What they need. And -- this is the crucial part -- the other person repeats back to them as closely as possible what they just heard. They repeat what their partner feels as well as needs. And then the first one can correct them or say yes, that's what I mean. You got it right.

 

When that has been accomplished, the partner doing the active listening and repeating back responds by saying how they feel about what was just said. And then the roles are reversed -- the other person getting to do the talking and being told what they just said, as closely as possible.

 

You'd be amazed how humbling this process is. How you can apparently miss what the other person is actually saying, and most of all, how just the act of repeating how they feel and why, and what they need, you suddenly "get it". You step into their shoes when you're spelling out to them how they feel and what they need. You're standing in those shoes with empathy, freeing yourself of your own mental filters, to see it the way they see it. And it's amazing how people suddenly feel their partner had a light bulb go on that was off before, so they feel validated for the first time.

 

Of course, this HAS to operate as a two-way street, this format. Which is the beauty of it: you know it's going to be your turn to tune in and listen, and to "get it". You take turns listening actively, repeating back, correcting your partner when they got it wrong, thanking them for getting it right.

 

I've seen it break down a lot of walls which before were pure defensiveness, and/or trying to be heard but not listening, going in circles, feeling a power dynamic was running the conversation, being afraid to be fully open, etc.

 

This is just one type of exercise (and it's best introduced by a facilitator like a counselor, to practice with their guidance), but I'm saying a good therapist should be helping you to learn such skills as your building blocks -- how to dialogue together, not just to figure out the content of the dialogues and what the problems are in the marriage. Right now it seems to me that there is a lack of feeling safe and trusting around communication itself, and that's like the root of the tree that needs to be planted.

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I do know that I need to be more proactive. It's something that I've always struggled with in all relationships (romantic or not). It's really hard for me to open up and say what I need. I've lost a lot of confidence over the past few years (mostly due to other circumstances), and it's really hard for me to believe that I'm worth anything. Those are the issues that I want to work on our therapist with individually. Luckily, I know that my husband actually does want me to be more open about my opinion. He always has wanted that, but he doesn't always listen which has frustrated me and made me clam up. And that is something he needs to work on.

 

But I do agree with DN that this isn't necessarily the time to be standing up and saying, "NO, this is what you are doing that disrespects me." I mean, I have called him out on a couple of things. Our therapist told us it was important for us to be honest with each other this week. So I have been. I've told him a few times I'm pissed. And when he tells me that he's allowed to feel what he's feeling, I tell him that's true, but that means I'm allowed to as well, and I'm feeling pissed. And we had a fight this morning that he apologized for later because he realized he was being unfair. But as for those big things, I'm not sure if it's the time for that. I think it would come off as blaming him entirely (even though that isn't my intent). He's in a fragile emotional position, and pointing out all the areas he's screwed up will corner him, you know?

 

He's honestly been there for me through so much, guys. I didn't post much here when I was going through a ton of crap with my family, but he was there for me through all of it. I mean, I probably cried every day for months, and he would talk me down from a panic. I honestly might not even be alive if it weren't for him, those times were so tough. He supported me when I couldn't find a job and always helped build me back up when I was lacking confidence. He's rescued me from the middle of nowhere after getting lost (again). We are (were, maybe, but will be again) best friends. We laugh at the stupidest things together. We get each other. He (usually) thinks my stupid annoying habits are cute.

 

Honestly, some of the stuff he's done recently has been totally crappy. Telling me he didn't love me was a crappy way to share these problems with me. Texting his ex was a crappy thing to do. He should have been more understanding of my work last year (70-80 hours a week!). But, I mean, someone has to extend the olive branch here. He feels cornered and trapped, and a significant part of him wants out. We can box it out later (figuratively), but I've got to let him out of the corner first. Already, I can see him making baby steps to fix some of those bad habits, the same way I've been taking baby steps the last couple of days.

 

Things like developing a family unit of our own, putting together regular date nights, and other big issues need to be dealt with, but first we need to be listening to each other.

 

Edit: ToV, you posted while I was posting. I will likely reply, as I think you've hit some important points, but it will have to wait for tomorrow.

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On your side:

When it comes to love and marriage; you’ll talk forever, be counseled by the greatest minds and fill a library with you findings.

 

On his side:

A thin pink thong strap just slipped up above the top of a tight pair of jeans being worn by a woman who can barely spell her name and has time to look great.

 

Your marriage just ended.

 

Don’t underestimate sexually. You don’t have a chance if you and your husband don't have an understanding about these outsiders.

 

There can be no other women… ever! This is your first line and first action.

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Yes. This is him exactly. I have tried to tell him that he is not responsible for either causing or fixing my anxiety-- and actually, the fact that he feels that way contributes to it more. "I need to feel happy so I can be a good wife. I can't share this with him or I will bring him down." That kind of thing. This is actually something our therapist has isolated as an issue for him in his individual sessions. He has an underlying need to help others or make them happy in order to find confidence in himself, and that includes me and my anxiety. So that is, fortunately, something that they are working on.

 

 

 

Yes, it is. I talked a bit about it yesterday with him, and it went okay. But right now, I'm thinking that we are still in crisis mode. I mean, it hasn't even been a week yet. I am okay (worried, but okay) with being the "problem" while we get through this crisis mode (and even then, I haven't quite been a limp fish about it-- I've called him out on some of his actions recently). We will still be going to therapy in a couple of weeks when this passes, and then those other issues can be brought up and worked through.

 

 

 

Oh gosh... well, I was more than happy to be pulling more weight than him for awhile, because he had done the same thing for me earlier in our marriage. I got frustrated that he didn't seem to care, though, that I was making these sacrifices for him. I mean, I was going to school, working one job, and working another to help pay expenses for his band, buy him football gear so he could play the game he loved again, etc. It just didn't seem like that mattered to him. He didn't really ever thank me. Plus, I was working this extra job for him, but it ate up my time, leaving me less time to spend with him. So I couldn't make it to all of his football games or every band practice he had. And that's one thing that he cites as making him feel unsupported, which is frustrating because that doesn't seem fair to me.

 

And it's been tough for me to support his new band because I don't want to go to their practices because his brother who hates me is there, and it's just tough for me to optimistic and supportive of him spending so much time with someone who rubs me the wrong way. I would NEVER tell him not to spend time with his brother, of course, but I'm really bad at faking, and the fact that I'm not as thrilled about this band comes out.

 

Our (his?) plans have changed so much in the past two years-- some of it is just circumstance, some of it is his fickleness. Two years ago, he was gung-ho about becoming a Bible translator overseas. Then he was going to be a recruiter for the same organization. Then he was going to do that and plant a church where I am living now (this one fell through, no fault of his own). Then he was going to move and work at the church he's at now, and he wanted to buy the house we are renting and raise kids there. And now he's talking about going to Africa with an entirely different organization in fall 2013. I don't do well with change. I like plans, long term and short term. I feel like I can't attach myself fully to any of these because it'll change in six months anyway. I realize that he is young and is still discovering exactly WHAT he wants to do, but the cycle of total commitment and then changing his mind gets to me.

 

You know, I sometimes think a part of him isn't as ready to be an adult as he thought he was.

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I feel your pain my husband was like that when he was younger every six months he wanted to be or do something different. And you're right it is a hard to commit yourself to something like that.

 

I would remind him you were being supportive because you had the job that provided him with the means to do the things he liked.

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>> I was going to school, working one job, and working another to help pay expenses for his band, buy him football gear so he could play the game he loved again, etc. It just didn't seem like that mattered to him. He didn't really ever thank me. Plus, I was working this extra job for him, but it ate up my time, leaving me less time to spend with him. So I couldn't make it to all of his football games or every band practice he had. And that's one thing that he cites as making him feel unsupported, which is frustrating because that doesn't seem fair to me.

 

I hate to say this, but some people who marry young expect their spouse to play more of a role of being a parent where the parent caretakes and the kid 'plays.' And kids don't expect to have to thank parents for making sacrifices and doing things for them. They see it as the parent's job to do so and don't even think about it or the sacrifices their parent's make, or even that their parents should have their own lives and goals that don't involve caretaking children.

 

So you are making sacrifices so that he can do teenaged 'kid' things like play football and play in a band. You weren't working two jobs to build a life as husband and wife, you were working two jobs so that he could 'play' and extend his adolescence. If you fell into the 'Mommy' role, that will instantly kill passion and he won't appreciate you. Not that you WANTED to be his Mommy, but it honestly sounds like he is very immature emotionally if he is not getting that he needs to find a career and work a job at his age rather than play the 'i don't know what i want to do when i grow up' game. He IS grown up, or should be.

 

So these changing plans from day to day about what he wants to do when he grows up shows he really hasn't grown up yet! It is much more fun to have no job and play in a band and play football than it is to work and be responsible. So sadly he doesn't really sound ready for marriage or to see his wife as an equal partner whom he has responsibilities towards. Some people grow out of adolescence and some don't. There are many people on this board who are even in their 40s talking about partners who want to drift around and want to devote themselves full time to garage bands like they're teenagers rather than work and support themselves or contribute to a marriage or family.

 

I suspect that part of your problem with him falling out of love is really more about him changing his mind yet again, especially if he's decided he doesn't want to be married or settled down or to act like an adult and work on establishing a real career and family life. He can say IN THEORY that he doesn't want a divorce, but if all his efforts are devoted to avoiding you and avoiding settling on a realistic career and instead chatting up other women and hanging out rather than working, then that makes your only option to be his Mommy and support him as he floats from thing to thing.

 

so i think what is happening is you're going along playing the dutiful wife role trying to support him and work on the marriage, and he doesn't necessarily want a dutiful wife, he wants to still be a kid and play in a band and play football and talk to various girls and change his mind from minute to minute about what he wants to do when he grows up. So that force you into the role of being the 'responsible one' and hence his parent, then he turns around and says you're not being a good enough parent to him (i.e., he's no getting enough 'goodies' from you and you're raining on his parade rather than letting him do as he pleases 24x7), so he doesn't love you anymore.

 

The truth is he may not love you any more, at least not the enduring kind of love that recognizes what commitments mean and what being an adult in a marriage means, that he needs to be responsible to earn a living for himself rather than just 'play' while someone else picks up the tab in a parenting role. And he can't expect a marriage to work if he spends his spare time chatting up girls who make him feel good like he was a teenaged boy rather than a married man.

 

I would continue to go to counseling, but recognize that you should STOP doing anything that approaches being his 'parent.' He's got to grow up, and he won't if you're doing 90% of the work and all of the financial support while he hangs out with his friends and family and girls and doesn't even live with you. He has no reason to grow up if everyone is allowing him to wander around aimlessly changing his mind every 20 minutes like a teenager.

 

You might ultimately have to decide that this marriage was premature if he just wasn't ready to be married, and won't actually work on it or do his part to be an adult rather than a teenager drifting from thing to thing with no plan. Adults DO plan and they set goals and they stick to them, so don't feel badly if you want to do that. He needs to do his part to make this marriage work, and if he won't commit to do that and won't commit to acting like an adult and getting a job rather than hanging out and playing, then i think ultimately divorce might be the best option or you will just get more and more depressed and it won't go anywhere and he won't grow up if he's shoved you into that 'Mommy' role.

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Double girl!!

 

On the medical side of things...not to get too personal, but with regards to sex, when was the last time you got a check up with the gynie. There could be a treatable reason for the pain during intercourse. Sex and communication are glue for a relationships. Even if you can't do one thing at the moment, you can do many other things. And get lube!

 

And on the other thing...you have a lot more weight to throw around then you realize! He's fickle about talking to other women, what he wants to do in life, cuz he's gotten a major blow to his self-esteem. Always be clear about what you want, even if it means sounding like a jerk for objecting to him finding solace with a female friend. And since he's not working, have him move to where you are now. If you want respect, you do have to command it by letting them know what respect means to you.

 

Have faith! I know it's tough, but most times a marriage is like a cup, and you keep adding love to it even if it overflows...many times in the marriage you will experience lulls...job loss, death in family, etc. I think if you are both willing to work things out, and both take accountability for things, recognize them, and able to move beyond it, you'll be great. It takes time...won't happen overnight.

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I would not give up love, not just yet. I feel you, I really do. My husband was a little boy too when we married. He really wanted a mommy not a wife. That just makes the whole relationship dynamic all wrong. Everything about it is wrong. I am happy to say he has grown up. It took a long time but he did. I believe my husband was too young when we married. He was 24. He had been babied at home and taught very little because they wanted him to be dependent. He clung to being that way like a survivor of the Titanic. After many years of being in this dynamic I just said flat out unless he grew up I was leaving and it was really that simple. He KNEW I meant it that time and he bucked up and grew up.

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I too was one of those guys who really hadn't grown up. Literally.

My wife, from a *very* young age had to fill the "mother" role for her kid brother, and when we started dating at 16 she did that with me too. Well, I never really grew up till it was (hopefully not) too late. In hindsight I see all sorts of things I could have done differently, things my wife could have not done to encourage my not growing up...

Your job is not to be his mommy. Don't make the mistake my wife made, and allow him to make the mistakes I made, for ultimately you will become resentful. Make him grow up (not that I really know how to accomplish that, but others here likely do ). You and he are still young, forgive him all this after it's over and embrace the man he's going to become, then you two will have lots of happiness ahead

 

Best wishes and internet hugs,

-nbr

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btw, one other comment... be very very careful about not letting him intimidate you into controlling your behavior with this 'i don't love you' stuff... It's a great manipulative tool to bring you to heel if he's not getting everything he wants. You go, 'oh no, he doesn't love me! I need to be a better wife, more giving, more understanding, don't make him work, don't make him do anything he doesn't want to do, bend myself into a pretzel to please him or he'll leave me!'

 

it may be his genuine feelings, but it may also be a way to bring you to heel if there are things he really is enjoying doing (talking to other girls, playing football, playing in a band, living at home with his Mom and not working) and he doesn't want you to interfere with them. You're so busy focusing on the 'he doesn't love me!' terror that you miss the part that he's not doing anything at all to contribute to improving the relationship or acting like an adult.

 

so you need to really really think about what you want for your life, and sit down with him and tell him what you want. Then you see if it meshes with what he wants. Then you start negotiating, and see if you can come to an agreement or not that is OK for both of you.

 

But if all he's doing is running around like an undisciplined kid 'playing' and you are expected to just let him and not have any say in how the two of you live your lives other than tagging along behind him cleaning up after him, and he won't even agree to live with you while he's unemployed and has no reason o stay separate from you, then that is no good. If he really doesn't want to be with you and doesn't make plans to be with you, then i don't think he is invested in the marriage or in making it better and it will be wasting your time. Being married is about COMMITMENT to each other, and if he's spending all his time and efforts on his own goals with no reference to you at all, and prefers to live with his folks to living with you, then for all intents and purposes he's not married other than a piece of paper.

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Thanks for the feedback, guys. As for the boy-not-man thing, I see that. I really do, and it frustrates me. But it hasn't always been like that. Like I said, the first year we were married, he was the one working two jobs while in school. I was working as well, of course. Before we got married, he was working full-time and going to school. He has the ability. I wonder if recent events have caused him to regress somewhat. He went from a very stressful year followed by a toxic work environment followed by this job loss and moving back to his home where he now spends a lot of time with his very irresponsible younger brother. Not that this excuses his actions, but he didn't always seem to be like this. I have definitely stood my ground with the other girls thing. He knows where I stand on that. It has never, EVER been a problem before recently, and if it had, I wouldn't have married him. It's unfair for him to expect me to work on our marriage while he talking to exes and developing feelings for other women.

 

I'm not going to make him move back with me. I know it may be stupid and foolish and naive, but I am okay with being less important for awhile if it means saving my marriage. He says he feels trapped, and I think if I don't work hard to avoid that, he will bolt. If I tell him he needs to move back with me, he might just say, "Screw that," and leave. I do think he will grow up, like Vic's husband. He's been an adult before. I'm not entirely sure what happened to change that.

 

tattoobunnie, I've been to the gyno. There is nothing wrong with me, unfortunately. It is not terrible pain-- just painfully irritating. Unfortunately, inability to enjoy sex has caused him to lose all sexual attraction to me, so that sucks. If I did try anything, I'd get shot down.

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Feeling really super crappy. Hung out with husband in the morning and early afternoon. Went to his parents' house at 4pm because he had a meeting and then band practice. At 10pm, he came and picked me up and was weirdly suggesting I stay at his parents' house that night. I said no because I hate sleeping in different places and had no bedtime stuff with me. Turns out he wanted to hang out with his 19 year old buddy, but felt like he "should" be spending time with me. He basically told me that he's struggling because he wants to be single again, apparently because it's so bad to be married to me. I told him to just go. I was totally a pushover. I have no pride. I just want him to stay with me. I almost want to give him permission to cheat on me and ignore me and buy whatever he wants if he'll just stay with me. I'm so broken.

 

Everyone else in my life has left me. I don't want him to leave me too.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, the reason he wants to spend time with other people is because I've been so emotional and sad this week.

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No, it's a buddy from his band. The female friend lives hours away, and is actually a mutual friend. While he was out of line with that, I ultimately don't have any real worries about her, except that it indicates something similar may happen with another closer and less upstanding woman.

 

I just don't know if there is anything I can do but sit here and let this rip my heart out slowly while he decides to leave me. Whenever I mention that he doesn't seem committed, he says that he wouldn't be paying for marriage counseling if he wasn't committed.

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When someone talks about how someone else doesn't appreciate "all they've done for them," that is a fast track to developing a martyr complex.

 

Thanks. I appreciate all the support I've been getting from you and everyone else. To be fair, exes and other women have never, ever been anything even close to a problem until just now, and I really think he will be more than willing to change his behavior in that area. I mean, it sucks and it wasn't okay, but that is a direct consequence of the struggles we are going through right now-- struggles that were caused by both of us.

 

The problem is boundaries. You guys have really poor boundaries. You didn't mind if he confided in friends. You didn't feel there should be a boundary line where you don't go outside of marriage confiding in people about your marriage except to a counselor, etc. And doesn't have boundaries either. Maybe you didn't want to be controlling, but that is where it is at. It is one thing for a child to go to their parent and look for life advice "gee dad, Firiel and i are trying to manage finishing our schooling adn marriage. How did you do it when you were my age?" but not to constantly rag on you or share blow by blow details.

 

So it really isn't the exes problem, or problems with friends but with boundaries. If exes are off limits, he'll find someone else to talk to.

 

Really, if you only live 15 minutes away and aren't states away - you need to move in together NOW if you want to be married.

 

And btw, I think your job is viable. You are downplaying your job that is GIVING YOU FREE TUITION saying that the degree doesn't mean much or won't give you a good paying job, but finishing a degree is important. Yes, you will get more work even if not in your field as it will give you an edge. Potential employers will see that you have the ability to stick with something and complete it and it might give you a slight edge over another candidate. If anything, he is the one who needs to scale back at volunteering. I understand if his volunteer work is an avocation but he needs to balance it out with paying work.

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I agree with abitbroken. Stop downplaying you working toward your degree. It is extremely important. You have school to finish. He needs to scale back on the volunteering and start figuring out what he wants to do quit to make money. Sorry, but degree > his volunteering.

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