Why do you want children??

[Batya33]

TOV I couldn't agree with you more -there are women who have children who are not mothering their children, and women who don't have children who are mothering many children and everything in between. Your mothering is reflected in your desire to give to the child, to make it better - not "oh he's so cute I just want to cuddle him" -it was about making that connection in order to give to the child which is mothering (or fathering) IMO. And it's also so giving of you to be ok with your sister having a three-way convo with you and her child - it's hard on both ends but you were and are so accommodating and understanding about the situation.

[Seraphim]

I agree, I KNEW my son before he was born. I knew him in my heart and in my soul and in my being. He was part of me and I was part of him. I agree too a woman becomes a totally different woman after her child is born.

[OptomisticGirl]

I know that feeling! I know I'm a young but I can only describe it as my biological clock feels like I'm 40 - but I'm not. I FEEL like I don't have time to have kids when I know I do, it's just I want it so much. Hard to grasp. My sister got pregnant unexpectdly as well - she was 18 - so that was a biggie for me. I remember lying on the couch the day she told our mom (and I Found out) and walking into my bedroom and just bursting into tears. I never let her know I was unhappy - she knew, of course - but I was never gloomy around her while pregnant. And when T had to be taken by C section 2 months early I was just as nerve wracked as my mom was - that was really my first indication I was getting over the whole not being pregnant first thing.

 

I fully agree with you TOV. It took me a long time to come to grips with my emotions but I did, and I think T being born so early forced me to. I remember the day he was born being so scared to go to the hospital to see him - my niece (best friend's daughter) had been born a month early but never had spent a second in the NICU) and I knew T was there, hooked up to machines that without them he wouldn't be here. And I remember the moment I first got to hold him - he was about 3 weeks to a month old I believe - and he was SOOOOOO tiny but when my sister put him in my arms I knew from then on I would do anything for that like boy. And although his mom and I have our moments - we are complete opposites - and fight a lot, I would do anything for her as well.

 

Yes it is TOV - it's a wonderful privlieage and for women like us, like you said, it helps stem that emotion of not having our own. I don't treat my nephew any different then I would my own kids one day when I baby sit him and watching him and playing with him and being a part of his up bringing sooths that inner voice of wanting to be a mom, at least for a few more years.

 

That memory of sitting and looking at him was SO touchful TOV. I had that same feeling and same instance once, and it's such a strong feeling and connection it overwhelms you. Like I know every time I walk into the room and my nephew hears my voice he turns his little head, breaks out into this huge baby grin, and charges at me while crawling (And sometimes gets ahead of hismelf and face plants the floor because he's crawling too fast, lol) or how there are times he doesn't want mom, he doesn't want granma, he wants auntie and although I never get a good nights rest when he sleep with me - little bugger sleeps just like me, as in, never still - and has smacked me in the face in the middle of the night before, that's my favorite time with him is when he sleeps with me.

[sjustine]

I have always known I don't want children. Everybody has always said you'll change your mind once you get to a certain age, but everyday i'm more sure its something I have no desire for. I have never wanted to be tied down. Call me selfish, but once i'm done focusing on my career, I want to travel the world with my husband. I feel that once you have children, you live for them. I know I have a maternal side in me somewhere, i care about people and I'm a darn good puppy mommy (but yes I know four legged children are much easier!)

 

Next reason...i'm overly pessimistic (but trying to work on it), and I really shouldn't be allowed to watch the news because I swear the world is just going crazy and is getting kind of scary to raise a kid in. (side note......I just read an article that in indonesia, some parents of female babies as young as one are getting sex change operations done on them to turn them into males, how sick is that? I don't understand the dire need to have someone to pass on your family name, what does it matter!!!!! not that these children will be fertile after the operation anyway! And you just mutilated your beautiful baby girl)

 

And lastly....don't even get me started on pregnancy, If in the distant future I do change my mind, I will probably adopt The thought of having something growing inside me is kind of frightening to me

 

I know my views are very strange, I think if I would of had a happy childhood my thoughts on raising a child would be very different. My parents hated each other and me and my sisters lived in the middle of their battlefield. Parents out there, please, please, please never fight with your spouse in front of your children or anywhere in the house where they can hear you, it can be very damaging.

[OptomisticGirl]

^^^ yes it can. I want them bit I went threw what you did. I still can't be aroumd adults arguing because of it.

[Sparkly Eyes]

I feel the same as you. So no, you are not strange. Pregnancy does no good to your body and I don't want to be tied down because of a kid either. I like my freedom the way it is. I too will probably adopt if I change my mind one day in future. The only problem is finding a guy who feels the same way.

[sjustine]

The only problem is finding a guy who feels the same way.

 

I got lucky in that sense. When I was dating my husband, he thought he wanted kids because of the typical reasons, passing on your DNA and name, etc. He changed his mind when we got a puppy together, and he realized he likes being able to go out without worrying about leaving the dog at home and such, and he realized a baby would be so much harder and he values his personal time too much.

[Batya33]

I feel the same as you. So no, you are not strange. Pregnancy does no good to your body and I don't want to be tied down because of a kid either. I like my freedom the way it is. I too will probably adopt if I change my mind one day in future. The only problem is finding a guy who feels the same way.

 

Pregnancy was positive for my body in several ways including emotionally. I think people who view having kids as being "tied down" in a negative way shouldn't have them. "Tied down" is merely a state of mind in this context. It's always good to hear from people who are honest about not wanting kids and who don't choose to feel pressured about having or adopting kids.

[Unknown1607307972]

You're a lot like me, especially about pregnancy. The idea of something growing in my body gives me nightmares and if I ever changed my mind about wanting children I would much rather adopt.

 

The funny thing is I had a very happy childhood at home (school was different). My parents were separated but very civil to each other, I was an accidental child but I was surrounded by so much love. I am so so thankful that my parents didn't argue and cause drama around me because seeing other people with separated parents has made me realise how great it was that my parents did that for me. I don't think my background has any effect on my choice to not have children, I think it's my fear of losing control over my own body and then having the constant pressure and responsibility of parenthood.

[90_hour_sleep]

it's nice to see an alternative perspective here. that's really what this is all about. it's not about one difinitive 'reason' behind the rhyme. it's about exploration.

 

thanks to everyone who has shared. thoughts and experiences appreciated.

 

and for what it's worth...i think the sentiment of being tied down is more an expression of one's own limitations than anything. it's actually a very neutral statement as i see it. as far as the big picture is concerned...'negative' and 'positive' are human creations. whatever your choice...it is your choice. don't let anyone devalue your experience or your perception by imposing their own label on it.

 

cheers

[Batya33]

it's nice to see an alternative perspective here. that's really what this is all about. it's not about one difinitive 'reason' behind the rhyme. it's about exploration.

 

thanks to everyone who has shared. thoughts and experiences appreciated.

 

and for what it's worth...i think the sentiment of being tied down is more an expression of one's own limitations than anything. it's actually a very neutral statement as i see it. as far as the big picture is concerned...'negative' and 'positive' are human creations. whatever your choice...it is your choice. don't let anyone devalue your experience or your perception by imposing their own label on it.

 

cheers

 

To me "tied down" whether to a child, a person, a boss -is most often used with a negative connotation. Even the word "down" in that context has a negative connotation. Unless there's another definition or interpretation of which I'm not aware - that's possible -but in the last 25 years or so that I've known that phrase and heard it used many times in reference to marriage or family it's always with a negative connotation unless it's a joke as in "I'd love to be tied down to you!". If someone thought of having a child as primarily an experience of being tied down (in the traditional interpretation that I understand) and they asked me my opinion on whether to have a child my advice would be not to (and again, only if I was asked).

I think the first sentence you wrote is spot on. There has got to be as much freedom as possible to express a desire not to have children as there is freedom to express the desire to have children.

[OptomisticGirl]

I agree. I mean, to be being tied down could also mean to be in a relationship with someone (as a negative connotation to it). Another member of this board put it the best way I have ever heard: she chooses not to be childless, but child free.

[90_hour_sleep]

well...of course it can be perceived as negative. there are two perspectives that testify to that....just now.

 

but that's but ONE perspective. or two that point in the same direction.

 

there are those who would not perceive 'tied down' in a negative light. it CAN be completely neutral. completely dependent on your own perception. it can be a statement of fact...without any particular inflection.

[sjustine]

The idea of something growing in my body gives me nightmares

 

This made me laugh, thanks! I'm glad i'm not the only one who feels that way. Sometimes I wish I was a guy so I wouldn't have to worry about ever accidentally becoming pregnant.

[Batya33]

well...of course it can be perceived as negative. there are two perspectives that testify to that....just now.

 

but that's but ONE perspective. or two that point in the same direction.

 

there are those who would not perceive 'tied down' in a negative light. it CAN be completely neutral. completely dependent on your own perception. it can be a statement of fact...without any particular inflection.

 

Of course it can be but most often, especially in relation to children, it's expressed with a negative connotation. I doubt many children would want to be told by their parents on a regular basis "you make me feel tied down". Or, worse, to sense that in the way their parents interacted with them. It can be expressed as a fact- it's a fact that if you parent a young child in any reasonable way, you live with restrictions on your movements in one way or another. But a parent who enjoys being a parent most of the time would likely at most say "sure I am tied down because I have kids but [insert positive opinion or statement about being a parent". Most parents would never use the phrase "tied down" if they were feeling neutral or positive about being parents. I felt far more tied down being single because I felt restricted from my dream of marriage and family (even if part of the tied down was of my own making, of me getting in my own way of my dream).

[tiredofvampires]

This made me laugh, thanks! I'm glad i'm not the only one who feels that way. Sometimes I wish I was a guy so I wouldn't have to worry about ever accidentally becoming pregnant.

 

You guys can count me in with feeling frightened at the idea of "something growing inside me." This is particularly ironic, given that I would WANT to become pregnant, and feel it would also have some wonderful aspects to it.

 

I relate to what Unknown said about feeling out of control at that idea. I'm not sure how much of it for me has to do with having some significant health problems already, but when I think of having to see something through for the better part of a year that no matter what, even if I have major problems with, I'm committed to and can't get out of, makes me feel somehow almost claustrophobic, haha.

 

It seems so irrational, I know, and bizarre that this could co-exist with wanting to feel fertile and experience for myself the changes that happen biologically.

 

I think it's the idea, "What if something goes wrong and there's nothing I can do but grit my teeth through the endurance test?" that scares me.

 

Just thought I'd share that yet another person feels this way -- even though unlike you two, I would want to do it anyway.

 

I think this reaction is probably not as strange or out of the norm as people assume. Before alien sci-fi horror movies were invented, it probably would have seemed more crazy, lol.

[Batya33]

What you wrote makes perfect sense and honestly it never occurred to me in the 25 plus years I wanted to be pregnant ("someday" or "now now!") to think of it in those terms - and it surprises me, reading how you put it , that I didn't think of it in this way or have the fears you do. Maybe ignorance is bliss? When my phobia of vomiting was at its most intense it didn't matter how many people told me how it can feel like a good release, how you often feel better afterwards, etc. To me it was the greatest gift to have the privilege of a human being growing inside of me - winning the lottery feeling was an understatement. I happily gave up many of the things I loved to eat and do without blinking an eye. On the other hand, when I had my "emetophobia" you could have given me a free cruise to beautiful islands with the hottest, nicest guy on the planet and I would have declined because of a fear of motion sickness even though I'd never gotten sick that way. I chose my fear over all of that -with some inner conflict of course but not much. I can relate to that mindset so well.

 

But, if it helps even one iota - the discomfort, the responsibility of growing a baby inside of you, the restrictions and the constant running to doctors (because over 40 I was high risk and you would be too) was blip on the radar compared to the lovely physical and emotional feelings that went with it. Yes, I know many women who had miserable pregnancies despite wanting to be pregnant very much so I know I was lucky but a complication free (or just minor issues) pregnancy didn't feel like you described, physically or emotionally. Just figured if that helps at all in your decision making process I'll take a stab at it because I know you'd make a wonderful mother!

[Unknown1607307972]

I think TOV hit the nail on the head for me by using the word "claustrophobic" funnily I suffer from claustrophobia as well as the pregnancy fear! I find the idea of not having control over myself or my surroundings really horrific, be it feeling physically trapped somewhere or be it feeling I have lost control over my own body. I find the thought of my body changing shape due to another person growing inside me really disturbing too, living off my nutrients, moving inside me. I also find the idea of pregnancy strangely lonely, my boyfriend could do his best to help me but in the end it's me alone who goes through the physical ordeal, me alone with the restrictions on what I eat and do, me alone who has their body change, me alone who'd go through pain.

 

Many people seem to think my views are really strange

 

However while I myself don't want children, for someone who does the pros outweigh the cons in the end. One can loathe pregnancy but still be glad they went through it to have their child who they love so much. Also, if fear really hinders someone who genuinely does want children there is help available to try and control the fear. I don't plan on getting help because it has no purpose for me, I don't want children of my own even pregnancy aside.

[OptomisticGirl]

I have the fear or dying in childbirth - to the degree L and I have had all the talks about what I want him to do, what he would want to do, in any given scenario we could possibly think of. Sometimes it started an argument, lol

[lostnscared]

I don't know what I was thinking--wanting children. Last year, you would have caught me on all the parenting threads, or talking about my hypothetical 3 or 4 kids that I wanted. I was so naive. LOL. I believe now I was in some type of fantasy world when it came to wanting children. It sounded nice, it sounded fun, it sounded cute, it sounded right. I could easily daydream about it, without actually experiencing it, because the reality of what having children means didn't really mean much to me at the time(or at least I THOUGHT it did, but now I realize I really didn't). Anyway I REALLY had wanted children for the last two years, and had every reason why I wanted them, from the reasoning of "it just feels like what I was supposed to do", to "I'm good with kids and love them" to "I want to be a mommy because I WANT to and I don't care what people think", etc. I had SO many reasons why I wanted children, and yet now I laugh when I think about how unrealistic I was or how much I THOUGHT I knew. Anyway I'm 30 weeks pregnant, so I did get my way, but once I did get my way, it wasn't the way I thought it would be.... The pregnancy was only horrible in the beginning and I believe that it was all in my head--I personally don't believe in pregnancy symptoms like MS,I believe all pregnancy symptoms are actually just a result of fear, and expectations of what we've been told by others--and that most of them are created in our heads and then materialize from there. If that makes any sense--in other words I believe most of it is mind over matter. The same way I feel about childbirth and delivery.

My pregnancy has been pretty good once I realized that. I'm 30 weeks and I've only gained 9 pounds, no stretch marks, I eat what I want, and have great energy, etc. It isn't the pregnancy that I fear, it's more of once the pregnancy is over and I actually have to be a mom. The reality of that is why I WISH I would have taken things more seriously, because in all honesty if I KNEW what I know now I wouldn't ever have children. They're a lot of work, cost a lot(so far it looks like I've spent about $7000 on getting baby stuff and I'm STILL not finished nor have I had my baby shower), and 18 years of having them depend on you--ugh. It's just a lot to absorb. Personally I think people should really think carefully and realistically about whether they want children or not. I wish I would have.

[OptomisticGirl]

Do you think the reality of the impact that it hit you with could have to do with when/how you got pregnant?

 

On a side note - I think how much your children spend is also about what you get them. Some mothers think they need everything when the baby comes - changing station, crib, dresser - things that a newborn DOESN'T need right away - and on the other hand it's about what you spend on said items. I went to school with a girl who refused to take anything hand me down (clothes or toys) and refused to buy anything below $20 for her kid (including dummies and recieving blankets) and that to me can rack up the cost of child rearing.

[90_hour_sleep]

hey lost...

 

i've kind of disassociated with this thread a bit...mostly because i've inaccurately articulated my own curiosity in starting the thread. but i'm really glad you've posted this. for me...this has never been about discrediting the experience for anyone...it's mainly been about exploring the implications of desire...and how it relates to this specific facet of desire. and i think you've touched on a certain aspect of that. the fantasy.

 

so...firstly...thanks for sharing.

 

i'm wondering how common your perspective is. i'd hazard a guess that many women who may have found themselves in your shoes may feel a need to hide their true feelings on the matter...for fear of ridicule...or shame (perhaps only at their own hands). how easy is it to set aside one's stubborn convictions and admit a sort of defeat? you know? any thoughts on whether these feelings are just a part of the whole process you're going through? perhaps after you've given birth...your perception will change again? i think often times when we see contrast...it's not really contrast at all...it's just a misinerpretation of the fluid nature of life. just a theory...maybe you see things differently?

 

really curious about the fantasy though. any thoughts on where it all came from? what perpetuated it in your own life?

 

and...perhaps your worry itself is something to be EMBRACED!!! if you weren't at least moderately uneasy here...i'd think that maybe you don't truly appreciate the nature of what's going on. i don't think it's a trivial matter to give birth...and if ever there was a time to feel unnerved...or uncertain...this would CERTAINLY fit that bill. think of it like the athlete with pre-comp jitters. if those jitters aren't there...it's usually an indication that something isn't quite right. and maybe that's the more unnerving experience. maybe it's an indication that you don't take the whole business seriously. you know?

 

like you say...alot to absorb. but it sounds like you're adjusting...and preparing yourself for the reality as it approaches. just don't forget to stop and smell the roses along the way.

[lostnscared]

Do you think the reality of the impact that it hit you with could have to do with when/how you got pregnant?

 

On a side note - I think how much your children spend is also about what you get them. Some mothers think they need everything when the baby comes - changing station, crib, dresser - things that a newborn DOESN'T need right away - and on the other hand it's about what you spend on said items. I went to school with a girl who refused to take anything hand me down (clothes or toys) and refused to buy anything below $20 for her kid (including dummies and recieving blankets) and that to me can rack up the cost of child rearing.

 

No. I think the reality hit me when I realized I would have 18 years of children depending on me, and I'm still a spoiled brat myself LOL.

 

Nah, for me what initially stopped me from wanting to have children(when I used to talk about it earlier last year) was not having a house, not having the money to get certain things, still living in Chicago, and not being married. Once all those things took place I was planning on having children. Now that I am pregnant I HAVE gotten all those things--I moved into my house 2 weeks ago, I've had plenty of money to get stuff that I need and want, I'm no longer living in Chicago, will be getting married next November, and will be a SAHM. Everything fell in place. But I STILL feel the way I do--that if I would have known what I know now I wouldn't have kids. Because having all that "stuff" really doesn't make me feel mentally or emotionally better about what it means to be a parent, the sort of responsibility I'll have, and how much(how drastic) my life will change once September comes. That is SCARY to me.

 

Oh I agree, what you spend on your children is really up to the individual. A lot of my friends that are expecting aren't spending very much, many of them are getting hand-me-downs, stuff from Walmart, having their parents get them things, and of course having baby showers. I can easily say that many of them have said they will not spend over $1000 on baby stuff because they don't have the money, but also feel like it's wastefull. I admit I've taken a snobbier approach to getting stuff than what I had envisioned--not in the sense that I won't accept hand-me-downs, but more so that I would rather get everything brand new. My budget has been high because I've bought furniture from Pottery Barn Kids(which is very pricey), and I did get SOME smaller stuff from Babies R US, plus the cost of the baby shower(it's costing me and my mom 800 dollars). I haven't got the clothes yet, strollers, carseats, etc. All that I'll get if I don't get it at the baby shower. But I do have people offering hand me down clothing--which I'll gladly take. I'm just pointing out that unless people have REALLY nice baby showers, getting baby stuff can get pricey--even if you go to a hand-me-down store, or somewhere that isn't as expensive it adds up. I was doing my baby registry earlier this week and I was surprised at how many things I needed that I had not gotten--and how much I've spent and how much more I need to spend. It's sort of to each their own thing I suppose, but I DO think many people(including myself) underestimate the cost of getting the basics to start a family. And yes there are some things that can wait until the baby is a bit older, but for me having those things now(beforehand) is just easier.

[OptomisticGirl]

that's a good point though, especially to those who set certain limits that they want to do before having kids - owning a house, traveling for x years, doing x thing, and x this - they think doing this will prepare them for parenthood when it really won't - it's just limits they set for themselves, unless they work on mentally and emotionally preparing themselves. That's why L and I really haven't set certain restrictions on what has to be done before we have kids - the only thing is we don't want to start trying until a year after I get a job, and that's only so i can stay out as long as I want with the baby and have a nest egg. I def. think when people put goals on themselves, it's easy for them to feel how you do now that you are pregnant and being a parent.

 

I actually have to disagree on the price. My sister never had a baby shower (little bugger came before he was suppose to!) and I think in total we paid $300 for all T's stuff. But I agree, it's def left down to the individual and all that. for us while I plan on decorating the nursery, I really don't think it's prudent to have a crib because I know the baby will sleep in a basinet in our room for the first few months so I'm not stumbling through the house at night to get up to feed them. They will probably have a dresser in their room just so I can have a place to put clothes but other than that and a storage bin for whatever newborn toys we buy or are given, that's it. Everything else can already be picked out (I admit, I already have a crib picked out, lol) and bought later.

[90_hour_sleep]

and the disparity on cost here kind of begs the question...what things does one really need anyway? granted that needs can be hugely speculative depending on the person.

 

ha!! back to desire again maybe.